PjPablo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the same person who will be wailing and knashing teeth when patches put new recipes into the other professions and leave biochem gimp. Plus, right now, today, you can use the other professions to "trinket" raw mats and vendor for credits. Bioware made this an easy credit maker without the immediate need for an economy. Biochem....not so much. It's usually better to just sell the created item. Seems to me that to RE and sell what you get would be a loss compared to just vendoring the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorkah Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 People, understand the OP, it's not an issue of "there's not enough people", "there's no end game", etc etc. The issue is that crafted items aren't worth "USING", and not worth "BUYING"... RIFT end game economy was great. You could buy 4 raid quality slot gear items. They were hard to make, required 48 CD mats, usually around 7, and cost a ton. It was a way to "buy" yourself a few pcs. of raid gear. Also the raid consumables made good money. Each trade skill needs a permanent home at end-game, if crafting is merely a "while you level" stop gap, then that's unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ok then what is the point of your profession? No one will buy your gear because it is vastly inferior to hard mode flash point gear, you can maybe make yourself a set of armor, but that costs virtually no mats and won't have any affect on the economy. The economy is still broken, there is still no point to the GTM once you hit 50. Credits are worthless. People will buy materials to build their own gear or equip alts. Not to mention a hundred to one theyll implement more gear and or stuff for professions to create later. In short, stop being a whiny, entiotled little raider when you already get the Lion's share of 1337 gear in the game by virtue of having the time and will to raid weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum_Icecube Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the kind of thread that makes me laugh. People will say "Oh, the game sucks, there's a big thread over there about such and such!" But when you actually read the thread, it's only two or three people refusing to see reason from everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the same person who will be wailing and knashing teeth when patches put new recipes into the other professions and leave biochem gimp. If they ever do make biochem gimp and make a new profession better I will have it to 400 within 1 day, its not hard to switch. I'm not a huge fan of biochem, its just the only viable profession ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakos Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Not everyone wants to level biochem, just like not everyone in vanilla wow wanted to level potions or enchanting. Wow at least gave most players the illusion that their crafting profession was useful at end-game, although that was only true in varying degrees at different points in the game. In Vanilla, Blacksmithing an Arcanite Reaper was essentially the goal of every Warrior who PvPed. You could do other things. Bags were always high in demand for Tailoring. Some of the crafting items from Leatherworking were beneficial to have. In BC, Potion Making, Blacksmithing (specifically Weaponsmithing), Tailoring, Enchanting, and Jewelcrafting were all immensely useful for the up-and-coming raider. You could always use the items you got until you got to the last tier raids of that era for those who crafted items. Otherwise, Gemming or Enchanting things were helpful, Tailors got their own personal "enchantment" etc. But in TOR there's really none of that. Orange gear can last all game, and commendations can buy you all the useful mods you need until 50. Crafting armor or weapons is only marginally useful for those who don't run enough flashpoints to gear themselves (and their Companions, either via drops or via Commendation use). All of the mods on level 50 gear seem superior to anything that could be crafted. So now that Artificing, Synthweaving, Armormech and in some ways Armstech are completely useless, that leaves: Cybertech and Biochem which are the only two professions that create things better than what Vendors offer. As it stands, Cybertech and Biochem are the only useful professions at endgame. Cybertech for non-raiders, and BioChem for everything in general. There's a slight problem with this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) People, understand the OP, it's not an issue of "there's not enough people", "there's no end game", etc etc. The issue is that crafted items aren't worth "USING", and not worth "BUYING"... RIFT end game economy was great. You could buy 4 raid quality slot gear items. They were hard to make, required 48 CD mats, usually around 7, and cost a ton. It was a way to "buy" yourself a few pcs. of raid gear. Also the raid consumables made good money. Each trade skill needs a permanent home at end-game, if crafting is merely a "while you level" stop gap, then that's unfortunate. we understansd that. I'm simply saying, its unrealistic to expect a fully featured economy to cater to raiders already when raiders are a small part of the population. Most of the game's devtiome seems to have been spent on the story. hell, theres flaws in the game I hate. I'm just hopeful theyll be fixed in due time. Edited January 10, 2012 by Wingofbenu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 People, understand the OP, it's not an issue of "there's not enough people", "there's no end game", etc etc. The issue is that crafted items aren't worth "USING", and not worth "BUYING"... RIFT end game economy was great. You could buy 4 raid quality slot gear items. They were hard to make, required 48 CD mats, usually around 7, and cost a ton. It was a way to "buy" yourself a few pcs. of raid gear. Also the raid consumables made good money. Each trade skill needs a permanent home at end-game, if crafting is merely a "while you level" stop gap, then that's unfortunate. Its unfortunate that so many of the people in the thread are so caught up in defending the game that they defend the bad features with arguments such as "stop being a better player" and other statements that have nothing to do with the problem. What I don't think they realize is how they are trying to keep the bad features of the game. Its sad that's what this forums has turned into. People trying to point out flaws in the game so bioware can fix them, and fanboys flipping out that someone has anything negative to say about the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexide Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) As things stand, anyone doing end-game will quickly re-roll Biochem. Bioware will have to either nerf Biochem or give other professions high-end items only they can use, otherwise there will be no market for consumables. As a Biochem with all the Rakata 'consumables', I have no need to buy anything, ever. A simple solution would be to add new stims/medpacs/adrenals that are not reusable and that are slightly better than the Rakata ones. Edited January 10, 2012 by Hexide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldPush Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 we understansd that. I'm simply saying, its unrealistic to expect a fully featured economy to cater to raiders already when raiders are a small part of the population. Most of the game's devtiome seems to have been spent on the story. hell, theres flaws in the game I hate. I'm just hopeful theyll be fixed in due time. What else is there except raiders and PVPrs? People that play it for the story? They already spent 200 million on voice acting and storyquests so Im guessing those people will just stop playing or reroll at 50 which means you dont need to cater anymore to them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Its unfortunate that so many of the people in the thread are so caught up in defending the game that they defend the bad features with arguments such as "stop being a better player" and other statements that have nothing to do with the problem. What I don't think they realize is how they are trying to keep the bad features of the game. Its sad that's what this forums has turned into. People trying to point out flaws in the game so bioware can fix them, and fanboys flipping out that someone has anything negative to say about the game. Thats what every forum for an MMO turns into at launch. some people with valid concerns being drowned out by people who scream at every flaw as the doom of the game or imagined flaws they want resolved tright now, versus people who dont acknowledge any flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 we understansd that. I'm simply saying, its unrealistic to expect a fully featured economy to cater to raiders already when raiders are a small part of the population. Most of the game's devtiome seems to have been spent on the story. hell, theres flaws in the game I hate. I'm just hopeful theyll be fixed in due time. I don't get where all this hate for raiders is comming from. I'm talking about end game economy for EVERYONE. Hardcore raiders, Hardcore PvPers, Causal players, Joe Smith who plays 2 hours a week. Every single person is affected, not just raiders. You brought up raiders as a red haring to distract people away from the issues, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelpony Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If they ever do make biochem gimp and make a new profession better I will have it to 400 within 1 day, its not hard to switch. I'm not a huge fan of biochem, its just the only viable profession ATM. Every profession, with the exception of Synthweaving, is viable. Bio might be the only real viable one for raiders, but the others provide enhancements for moddable gear which is very viable for people who are leveling still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What else is there except raiders and PVPrs? People that play it for the story? They already spent 200 million on voice acting and storyquests so Im guessing those people will just stop playing or reroll at 50 which means you dont need to cater anymore to them at all. Yes, because nobody roleplays on their 50's, or plays hard mode flashpoints, or just casually pvps, or levels new alts with their guildmates. Brilliant, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thats what every forum for an MMO turns into at launch. some people with valid concerns being drowned out by people who scream at every flaw as the doom of the game or imagined flaws they want resolved tright now, versus people who dont acknowledge any flaws. I wonder what camp you're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I don't get where all this hate for raiders is comming from. I'm talking about end game economy for EVERYONE. Hardcore raiders, Hardcore PvPers, Causal players, Joe Smith who plays 2 hours a week. Every single person is affected, not just raiders. You brought up raiders as a red haring to distract people away from the issues, not me. Generally, I associate anyone who ever says "endgame" with "OMG PURPZ NAO" Sorry if thats not what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, because nobody roleplays on their 50's, or plays hard mode flashpoints, or just casually pvps, or levels new alts with their guildmates. Brilliant, sir. Just so you know, Full T2 gear is achievable through hard mode flash points. Oh look, you just included a large portion of you're "non raider" player base in my original argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I wonder what camp you're in. I'm in the "cynical about all camps" camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just so you know, Full T2 gear is achievable through hard mode flash points. Oh look, you just included a large portion of you're "non raider" player base in my original argument. so by that logic, Raids are pointless altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UjellyTrollicus Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 it is true that crafting isnt good enough. they need to let every crafting profession make epics comparable to raid level. its not broken in wow, and a great deal of the economy is centered around them, the rest is usually mats for crafting so i think the two changes should be 1. better crafted items (but a way to insure you can make them, rng is only so much fun. maybe a 1 week CD that will always craft the highest quality version of an item (with augment slot?)?)2. rarer epic mats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qouivandes Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 i would just like to be able to RE loot drops applicable to whatever profession is on that toon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingofbenu Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I agree crafting needs improvements. I just think those improvements will come. Same as I'm hoping mob difficulty gets a good look or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercArcher Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 so by that logic, Raids are pointless altogether? Normal Mode raids < Hard Mode Flashpoints < Hard Mode Raids < Nightmare Raids. Normal raids and hard FPs drop T1/T2 gear Hard mode and Nighmare raids drop T2/T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanscholo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yea i think its a viable discussion to have regarding professions, which are typically a problem in most MMO's. Note that i am note excusing the fact that they arent really balanced at this point, because there is no real excuse for it. I am leveling the professions with an eye to thinking at some stage they will get an overhaul, nothing more at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldPush Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, because nobody roleplays on their 50's, or plays hard mode flashpoints, or just casually pvps, or levels new alts with their guildmates. Brilliant, sir. Did I say that? No.. hardmode flashpoints is harder than raid atm... soo But catering to casuals is unecessary, you see from forum that they think game is brilliant as is so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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