Are people burned out on STOR or MMOs?

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Didn't really like WoW, it was simply not interesting for me and quite repetitive. Loved Star Wars Galaxies, there was always something new and the world was constantly changing due to player activities.

 

I am just more into sandbox worlds like EVE, Mortal and SWG than themeparks. Way more immersion in sandbox games.

[Leandrid]

*browser messed up, post deleted* Edited March 19, 2012 by Leandrid

[Tarka]

Didn't really like WoW, it was simply not interesting for me and quite repetitive. Loved Star Wars Galaxies, there was always something new and the world was constantly changing due to player activities.

 

I am just more into sandbox worlds like EVE, Mortal and SWG than themeparks. Way more immersion in sandbox games.

 

I'm not a "heavy" sandbox fan, but I gotta admit that I think TOR would benefit from being more like how Damion Schubert described TOR:

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001

 

Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs, and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world – and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it. Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time.

 

I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world.

 

It's just a shame that TOR doesn't really conform to such a description. Because in my opinion, an MMO that manages to take such a "centrist" path will stand a chance at appealing to a wide audience AND perhaps even manage to encourage long term subscriptions.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Tarka

[Pregzuel]

MMO's

 

As a computer scientist and a current masters candidate in CS,

 

 

Ohh Bravo!! arent you a smart bunny lol

[Tsaritsin]

This is just my observation and opinion - and I'm not trying to attack players who are not having fun in the game. I also recognize there are some much needed patches and improvements in certain areas.

 

However, I do think part of the problem is people are blaming SWTOR when in reality they're done with MMOs. In my extended circle of guildmates and gaming friends, the people who are the most upset with SWTOR are the ones who play every new MMO at launch, or who spent several years as hardcore raiders in WOW. The ones who are having a lot of fun either took a long break from MMOs or played them casually enough to not get burned out.

 

There's nothing wrong with being burned out on a genre - I won't touch a modern or WW II shooter because I'm just done with that type of game. I am enjoying SWTOR a lot because I took a year break from playing MMOs after the first few months of Cataclysm.

 

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

I think there is alot of truth in this,

 

For me at least I simply cannot face going back to WoW, even with all the problems with SWTOR.

 

I think one of the reasons I enjoy playing SWTOR is because it feels like a Single Player RPG but with MMO elements added that allow me to dabble in things like PvP and Flashpoints when I feel like it.

 

WoW has nothing at 85 apart from very badly balanced PvP and Raiding, both of which now bore me to death.

 

Blizzard have started talking about this problem, and I seem to remember a Dev post on the forums talking on this subject, in which they stated that they feel that quite a large number of the EU userbase are simply "burnt out", fed up, bored with MMO's in general, and that adding content will simply not help these people.

 

Having played WoW for many many years, I think they have a good point, playing the same game, or indeed the same style/genre of game for 4,5,6 years is going to burn you out, and then you reach a point when you start becoming overly critical of the game,

 

This happens because your brain is bored, it wants out, it wants something new, so your brain starts looking only at the bad points, and hides the good points, it's doing this to try and make you stop, it wants you to leave, take a break, do something new,

 

It's the complete reverve of what happens when you first start playing a new game, your brain only see's the good stuff, and all the bad points get buried in the back of your mind, because your having fun, and your brain wants to carry on having fun, so it blocks the negative, and only focuses on the positive.

 

This is why Bioware are going to have a hard time with ex WoW players, I think stealing them will be no problem at all, and indeed a large number of WoW players have moved to SWTOR,

 

But keeping them might be a problem, because they are in effect burnt out, and when your burnt out, the negative comes to the front, and the positive gets shunted to the back,

 

On top of all that, you have to add the controversial subject of Game Addiction, something that no one wants to talk about, including the Game Devs, but its a subject that people simply have to start talking about, because its very important and has huge bearing on the MMO market.

 

just my thoughts,

Edited March 19, 2012 by Tsaritsin

[sensiblepoast]

Too often, "different" means "I want another EQ where everyone is forced to group and build an online community" when the playerbase as a whole does not want that experience.

 

And A powerful reason for that being people tend not to leave games if their friends are still playing.

Edited March 19, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[sensiblepoast]

They don't want to make a dynamic MMO.

 

I never thought that was their intention. More like a single player pve game with a sub attached to it and occasional multiplayer features. This game is as static and instanced as they get.

[Frostvein]

I think the biggest problem is that the genre blew up.

 

MMO's now and days are trying to appeal to a mass audience. Instead of designing the game around a select few, they are now spending time trying to appease everyone in order to bolster their bottom line.

 

They don't have that base of things they do well, rather a collection of things they do poorly.

[kaboro]

To the OP, your observation is correct, but your explanation is wrong.

People that played other MMOs are upset with SWTOR not because they are burned out with mmos, but because they can COMPARE.

 

EQ2, SWG, Matrix, Vanguard, they are/were very deep, involving and complex mmos that offered a live world full of ideas and originality.

The problem is that many players did not want to spend the time and effort necessary to get into these games, so none of them was very successful.

 

SWTOR was made exactly for these players that dont feel like spending time and effort to get into a game, which is all good but the problem is that this was achieved by removing A LOT of gameplay elements and many older mmo players dont like that very much.

 

Personally i play swtor for what it is, try to enjoy it for what it is and try hard not to compare it with previous mmos i played, because if i do, i get upset.

[Bamajawn]

The "fetch" missions and gear progression have been with us a long time. Frankly, I burned out on this mechanic years ago and only came back to online games recently. SWTOR doesn't deviate from the tired mechanic, but does add the cutscenes and voiceovers to make things more interesting.

 

I'm left wondering what the next revolutionary MMO will be. I'm not seeing it out there on the horizon.

[sensiblepoast]

I'm sure some will, and some won't.. To me it all comes down to what they say they are doing, what they can..... The idea of "soft" grouping and having encounters scale to size of player group is awesome.. The concept of open world BOSSES, that scale to size of social soft grouping is perfect.. The concept that NO LOOT DROP from Bosses will make you more powerful then another.... It will ONLY be cosmetic.. I love the idea that my level can be temporary reduced in a lower level so that I can play with lower level friends, or just to help with more BOSS encounters..

 

I'm sorry, but what Arenet is promoting sounds to be more social and fun then anything in years.. probably since vanilla WoW and old EQ.. But we'll see

 

Oh, until that last paragraph I thougth you were talking about rift.

[Varghjerta]

I think the biggest problem is that the genre blew up.

 

MMO's now and days are trying to appeal to a mass audience. Instead of designing the game around a select few, they are now spending time trying to appease everyone in order to bolster their bottom line.

 

They don't have that base of things they do well, rather a collection of things they do poorly.

 

This i do agree with in a way i do feel like they do think that most players have the attention span of a wrench so dumbing down and instant gratification combined with overgearing 80% of the content in a few weeks is the way to go.

 

sadly even that i am a real casual playing 5-10 hours a week at the most i cant stand that kind of gameplay. So i did the hard decision that i would leave the game when the developers started talking about that yes dual specc and X-server LFG was being under the wraps those things just ruined it all for me and even that i subscribed for 3 months i havent played in a month and probably wont log into the game any more.

[sensiblepoast]

Check again. I said that I didn't really mind being lost (really, I have 3 monitors and google, I can research things on my own. I don't particularly care for it but it wasn't a dealbreaker) but having to wait 3-6 months to meaningfully interact or contribute to a group isn't really what I want. I play MMO's to play with other people, not by myself and just talking in chat isn't going to do it for me.

That's nonsense, you can contribute from day 1, even in pvp as a disposable tackler,. But you've already made up your mind so all further discussion is moot.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I'm not a "heavy" sandbox fan, but I gotta admit that I think TOR would benefit from being more like how Damion Schubert described TOR:

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20100402_001

 

.

 

Which game is he talking about? Certainly not SWTOR, seems to me he was describing the perfect opposite of what we have right now.

 

 

Originally Posted by DamionSchubert

Freedom is a true part of the magic of MMOs,

 

Yeah, when it's not a themepark mmo like TOR

 

 

and artificial constraints and mechanics can undermine the fiction and the sense that you are living in the virtual world

 

Constraints, perhaps like "instances"? Random groups of enemies standing around? Barely animated moving NPCs? Dividing player population to hundred different servers instead of having one server per planet? Having connected square maps instead of much bigger actual planets? No dynamic day/night/weather change? Et cetera?

 

 

– and when you have a brand as rich and textured as Star Wars™, the last thing you want to do is undermine it.

 

Well... no comment!

 

Even worse, the depth and visual splendor of Star Wars™: The Old Republic would be completely lost if players couldn’t jump off the rails and just live in the space from time to time.

 

This seems to confuse Star Wars Galaxies with SW The Park Republic.

Jump off rails? Where? Space Combat perhaps? Go hunting and tame a pet? Watch Huttball live in a cantina? Build an apartment in a jawa sandcrawler?

 

 

I’ve long advocated that moderation is the way to go, and I believe on The Old Republic we are successfully travelling a middle path, a centrist path that takes the strengths of both: provide a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world.

 

He is talking about a nice hybrid sandpark MMO, which is clearly not the case with SWTOR.

 

Great vision, but obviously from another game.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[MefuneAkira]

This is just my observation and opinion - and I'm not trying to attack players who are not having fun in the game. I also recognize there are some much needed patches and improvements in certain areas.

 

However, I do think part of the problem is people are blaming SWTOR when in reality they're done with MMOs. In my extended circle of guildmates and gaming friends, the people who are the most upset with SWTOR are the ones who play every new MMO at launch, or who spent several years as hardcore raiders in WOW. The ones who are having a lot of fun either took a long break from MMOs or played them casually enough to not get burned out.

 

There's nothing wrong with being burned out on a genre - I won't touch a modern or WW II shooter because I'm just done with that type of game. I am enjoying SWTOR a lot because I took a year break from playing MMOs after the first few months of Cataclysm.

 

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

Playing SWG for 7 years gets you spoiled with endless game play options to chose from. Wasn't a perfect game, but the sandbox game play made you hungry for more. MMO's these days are very linear, do not require a whole lot of thought to play and become boring very quick unless you're lucky enough to find a very active guild.

 

Bottom line, MMO's these days may be shinier, but they lack the vast game play option appeal to keep someone like me, who enjoys rich complexities in a MMO, interested.

[sensiblepoast]

Im not defensive at all, I just wonder why people talk about WoW as if it was the first ever MMo.......it was not, it was meh at launch and just got worse as time went by, catering to the instant gratification crowd..........Like I said before, SWTOR is not a WoW clone. Ok let me offer a comparison here, would you say every car is a ford clone? no. they each are seperate entities. Comparing SWTOR to WoW is obviously a haters tool, if you are so in love with WoW why are you playing SWTOR? This will never be WoW stop trying to make it so.

 

car = mmo

4 seat urban car = wow

4 seat urban car with leather seats and pink paint = swtor

 

swtor is a wow clone.

[Marlaine]

I believe people in general are burnt out on themepark mmos. SWG had its chance to capture the non-themepark market share, but screwed it all up. Now we have to wait for investors who are willing to invest in a mmo that's not the tried and true wow model.

 

In short, I think the mmo genre has a LOT of life left in it, but not if they keep copying the wow "quest then raid or die" model.

[Thlaylie]

I'm burned out on MMO's idea of "PVE."

 

It's not PVE if you have to compete with hoards for resources.

 

The best thing BW could do for SWTOR is move that green curtain up to the start so when you walk through it it is really just "your story" and not a mashfest.

[Dalwhat]

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

Got burned out on EQ2 after many years playing the franchise. Hardcore raiding takes its toll. Learned my lesson. Playing SWTOR at my own pace. Especially easy as it is essentially a solo game to cap. Playing all the classes in parallel. The idea being that by the time I get to cap Bioware will have released more content and hopefully I will never again be bouncing around at cap with nothing to do apart from hardcore raiding.

[Frostvein]

That's nonsense, you can contribute from day 1, even in pvp as a disposable tackler,. But you've already made up your mind so all further discussion is moot.

 

That's awesome. By the way, can you tell me what a disposable tackler is?

 

Like I said, 3-6 months to learn the game. People I talked to in game in EVE university said as much.

[brentonj]

MMO's used to be art. Someone's idea and passion brought to life in an Online Universe for others to explore and enjoy simultaneously (UO/EQ days)

 

Today, MMO's are about making the most money off of us.

 

That's pretty much the answer to everyone's complaints.

 

Solid answer.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

If SWTOR would be a solid successor to SWG, shinier, more polished, technically bleeding edge I'd buy a lifetime subscription within a minute.

 

SWG was a self sustaining, living, explorable universe - BW could have easily added great storylines and ironed out the lack of polish in many areas. Yeah I have to admit I wish SWTOR would simply be a heavily updated SWG 2 with Unreal Engine 3, bells and whistles..

[Macabakur]

I'm not sure if I'm burned out on MMO's but I'm burned out on bad game design decisions or lack or quick fixes for such simple mistakes in game design. Lack of features that simply must be in a MMO upon release seem so obvious.

 

I'm angry at myself for believing MMO game designers.

 

true that..

[Aidinal]

I'm in the burned out on MMO's in general category. I was enjoying the content in this game, but once I hit 50, the content ended and the grinding began.... Ugh boring. Reroll a toon you say? No thanks, I don't want to grind thru 50 levels to get to another dead end...

 

Cancelled and gone!!! Have fun with it!!

[zerosaint]

Regrettably I'm burned on MMO's. I have played them almost exclusively since UO (With brief excursions into Rome Total War) and I think it was SWTOR that finally hit me with the hamster on a wheel feeling- not that it is BW's fault, it's the genre.

 

The most fun I've ever had in an MMO was Matrix online that was most heavily reliant on self created content that flowed from live events put on by the devs. SWTOR just feels clinical to me.

 

And I don't think that will change in the future no matter what MMO I choose.