The point, you missed it.

Yeah, the quest rewards aren't an issue.. I get those.. it's the drops I'm talking about. And I'm the kind of person who kills pretty much every mob I come across and rarely take taxis or quick travel. But then, the 'official' response from the 3rd rate employee has already been given, and I'm in fact just doing the fashionable thing apparently. I've already cancelled anyway, and won't even bother finishing out my subscription. Another customer lost forever. Yes, the 3rd rate employees love their arrogance, and I love speaking with my wallet.

Yes, voicing my concerns is completely the 'fashionable' thing to do... so fashionable in fact that I am taking my money elsewhere. How's that for snarky arrogance? Employees like yourself who think you're oh so much greater than the people that pay your salary seriously amuse me. I mean, seriously amusing. But you see, that's where the power of the wallet comes in. Your company's extreme arrogance topped with horrible mechanics and updates will leave swtor running in maintenance mode before the end of it's first year... much like your other failure, warhammer online. But it's cool bro, I know you have to act a certain way in order to feel superior in order to make up for the failures the company you work for continue to produce. Oh, and for the record, 4 characters through hutta, 1 character through dromund kaas, another half way through dromund kaas and 1 about half way through whatever the planet after dromund kaas and still not a single drop... Yes, absolutely nothing wrong here... 5 total chars, 3 planets and 2 servers in different regions... nope, not a single thing needs to be investigated... In fact, your game is perfect and without flaws, so you have so much free time on your hands that you may as well just farm the message boards with that oh so amusing arrogance of yours and work harder to piss off more of the customers you're already losing.

I can understand that.. just didn't understand your reasoning earlier. It took me 3-4 tries (can't remember) before I got in to EVE. I'm still not all that in to it.. but only because I'm just not a 'deep space 9' kind of guy. I love the concept and wish more gaming companies would stick to a core concept that caters to a select crowd or 3... as opposed to the hogwash we see with every new game these days, aspiring to be the next WoW and failing in pretty much all aspects. It's corporate greed at it's worst...

Yeah, you took that completely out of context. You can learn the basics in a 1-2 weeks, maybe a little longer if you're a slow learner. At 3-6 months you're moving into the area of being an advanced player. By this time you'd most likely be running L4 missions with your corp and, if you so desire, cooperating in some pretty heavy pvp. A tackler is one who, believe it or not, tackles opponents. Your primary goal is pretty much what is called "CC" in traditional games. You basically jump in quick and heavy and prevent other ships from warping away. Here is some decent info: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Tackling_101_Guide A 'disposable tackler' means that basically, you and your ship are expendable. And any good corp will fund your ship and fittings so it's at no cost to you. Also, I don't think there is a question you could ask that isn't covered in depth on the eve uni website. You just have to be willing to learn, which you don't sound like you are. In the end, as everyone who plays EVE will tell you, it's not for everyone.

or single player console type games...

So you'd rather spend that time (and actually less time) getting to end game content amd then what? farm more gear with slightly better stats? I mean, come on... what are you going to do 6 months from now in swtor? That's one of the best things about EVE... there is no "end game"... don't get me wrong, there is progression for sure.. but there is no end game grind that you have to do to obtain the best gear or w/e... you progress as you go, and guess what, while you're learning the game, your character is progressing. And by the time you "learn" the game you have enough skills trained up with fly your frig effectively. And you say you don't want to roll solo.. ok, then don't. When I first started playing in 2008, I was in an ultra cool corporation within a few days. I was running missions and going on pvp training ops within 2 weeks. Of all the time I spent playing, I rarely ever had to do it alone... as in the only time I did was when i chose to. Not to mention, when i started I didn't do much researching.. didn't know about eve uni, etc. I'm the kind of guy who jumps in feet first and learn as I go. You can be as sociable or not as you want to be...

You start out by saying you don't want to be hand held, but then the rest of your post contradicts that. Sorry but it really sounds like EVE isn't for you. No problem with that.

1. What is so bad about having to learn a game? To me, this makes things much more interesting as opposed to being hand held through the entire thing. 2. That's not the case, not at all. The game itself isn't about catching up. It's fully dynamic - albeit can be boring at times and I'm really not a fan of deep space 9 type stuff, even swtor was pushing it - and ever changing. It's literally a big sand box that the players create and continue to mold. And there is generally always room for new players, and get this... there is, in general, a friendly community and corporations that exist solely to help new players. 3. Never fly a ship you can't afford to lose. I think they even teach that in the tutorial. As you progress, you will be able to properly handle better ships. And, in general, if you fly a ship you are actually skilled to pilot then you should have almost 0 chance of losing it in PvE, and you're generally safe in high sec space when it comes to pvp. not to mention, some of the most popular pvp ships are frigates, which are cheap and easy to replace. Granted, EVE online isn't for everyone - even I only play for a few months at a time because I'm really not a huge fan of playing in outer space all the time - and even CCP will tell you that if you ask them.

Please don't confuse subscription base with number of players online at any given time. You could log in to EVE Online at any give time of day and see an average of 25k people online. So I'd say they have somewhere around half a million subs. For a game going on 9 years old, that's pretty damn good... especially considering they have always prided themselves on being a small game company filling a specific game niche. if more companies would do this as opposed to trying to create the next WoW, then maybe we'd have a slew of different games that are actually worth playing. But no, as I stated earlier, ever company these days dreams of million of subs and yet, don't do what it takes to get there.

Umm, EVE Online isn't new, not by any means. It's actually older than WoW. And to think that a game (of which I'm currently playing again btw) as old as EVE can still have 20-30k people online at any given time of day... they must be doing something right. And aside from the debacle that went down in 2011 (which they appear to have recovered from), CCP has proudly been a small niche gaming company. Too many companies these days dream of millions of subs, and yet, they don't do what it takes to actually get there.

Actually, given MMOs of the past 6+ years, bringing something like challenging game play back would be pretty damn innovative. These days it's about about getting the max level with the best gear as fast as possible without actually having to work for or earn any of it. So yes, bringing some 'old' concepts back to a genre who has been spoon fed for more than half a decade would break the current mold and would be quite innovative.

So very true... I also miss the general adult nature of players back then. There was actually a great community across variou different game genres... but then came along that other game in all it's cartoony glory that brought all the immature people with it. And what we're left with is a 'community' of sociopaths. These days, asking a question or asking for help etc will do nothing but get you flamed, *****ed at and otherwise trolled because for some unknown reason, people in MMORPG's these days have absolutely no idea of how to interact with other people. I never did understand why people with absolutely no social skills whatsoever end up playing MMORPG's...

Does no one else find it sad - from a pvp point of view anyway - that GW2 seems to be using more concepts from DAoC and warhammer than the actual owners/maintainers of said games are? Now, I haven't actually played GW2 yet so don't hold me to the above, but from what i've seen so far, it's using a lot of things that made DAoC great (pvp wise) and could have made warhammer great if it had the right set of devs.

I'm personally tired of the same old game in a different shell. My experience so far is this, swtor = wow in space with voice overs and cinematics. And before anyone jumps in with the 'wow fanboi' nonsense... I hate wow and always have. I played it because there was unfortunately nothing better that actually has a healthy player base imho. And I am so sick and tired of every damn game copying wow, trying to be like wow, and/or pretending they aren't trying to be like wow when in fact they are like wow. I am desperately waiting for something new to come along that actually has some inkling of true combat mechanics and actual world pvp. I am so desperately tired of all the media hyped up nonsense that developers use these days just so they can hit x number of initial sales and subs. I am so sick and tired of game companies doing absolutely nothing original. I am so sick of gaming companies that think just because certain things made wow successful, those same things will make them successful. Also, I am so sick of Mythic, Bioware, Bioware Mythic or w/e you want to call them now having great concepts for games and yet failing to actually put those concepts into anything other than advertising. I played DAoC from the very beginning and stuck with it for 8 years on and off (less some time I couldn't play due to military obligations)... 8 years of watching them constantly destroying an absolutely amazing game mechanic, design and concept. I seriously hoped they would have learned by now, and yet, 11 years later and more than $5,000 total invested in this company, we're watching the same old nonsense once again. The same nonsense that essentially began with Trials of Atlantis and have haunted this company ever since.. up to and including Warhammer Online and now SWTOR... That's somewhere around 9 years of continuous nonsense. So now it's time I move on. Maybe one day they'll figure out that at the end of the day, the customers know what they want much more than the arrogant devs think they know what the customers want. And I can promise you one thing... we want something NEW. I think I can speak for every WoW player as well when I say this... people do NOT want yet another clone of an old, tired game.