MMO for me is this - An Open, Persistant and Explorable World in which the Player takes on the role of a Hero, the World must create a sense of "immersion", and the design of the Game must at all costs try to maintain that immersion, the chosen Hero then proceeds to progress through that world while interacting with other players and the enviroment in which he is placed. The most important things are - 1. The Game World, Open, Persistant, Explorable, fail here and you might as well start from scratch, it's a Game breaker, full stop. 2. Immersion, break it at your peril, allow your Game design to break immersion and gratz you just failed MMO school and made a first person shooter. 3. Progression, the player chosen Hero must feel exactly that "Heroic", he/she must at all times be the center of attention in the Game world and must progress and grow stronger, building to a given purpose, there has to be a goal, something in the Hero's future that becomes an aiming point, even if it cannot be achieved, fail at this one and you risk player boredom. Some things that are NOT important - 4. Story is not that important, it really can be pritty much any old nonsense it is simply window dressing, as long as it does not blunder around all over the place with obvious mistakes your pritty much ok. Note to Devs - Story does NOT create the immersion, your Game World creates the immersion, again you just failed MMO school, gratz. 5, Graphics, again not important, simply window dressing, an acceptable level is desirable but the game world, and how well the actual game functions, ie it's actual playability is a million times more important, WoW proved this point years ago and still game devs choose to ignore it. SWTOR fails hard on 1, 2 and partly 3, due to forcing the use of companions. I should add - In my opinion, lol

Yep, the most popular topic on the WoW forums atm is some RP dude doing an apology to the WoW community in a desperate bid to stop his *** from getting banned and suffering a similar fate to that of his two friends who got banned for being abusive (I think, hard to fathom exactly what there crime was) Anyway, that pritty much sums it all up for me now with regards to WoW, people only venture back into reality when the drug dealer (Blizzard) threatens to remove supply of the drug (WoW) Community ?, I don't see any community anymore, in any game, all I see is - 1. A group of people who are so hopelessly addicted to their chosen MMO that it has removed them totally from all sense of reality, I heard a guy refer to WoW on a forum as "Heroincraft", made me lol, and is not far from the truth. 2. A group of Casuals who just wanna have fun and seem to care very little about community, they jump from game to game getting a fast easy kick, nothing wrong with that, games are about fun.

When you bring the "Box Sales" mentality into the MMO market, it is always going to end in tears. The subscription based MMO market requires an end product that generates continued long term subscription numbers, SWTOR does not do that, as a single player one time playthrough game it is fantastic, for many people it is simply a continuation of KOTOR, and for many people (me included) it simply feels like a single player game, this feeling simply cannot and never will generate long term subscription. EA are, and always have been a Box Sales Company, they simply cannot move away from this culture, no matter how much they want to, or indeed need to, over the years they have continually used Hype and Marketing driven overinflated expectations to drive up Box Sales with little or no regard for the finished product. EA have on many occasions forced through the early release of an unfinished product simply to coincide it's release date with the Christmas sales boom to increase Box Sales, SWTOR is simply yet another game to fall foul of this sales tactic, and it sure as hell won't be the last. Now at this point you do have to wonder just how many times exactly we are all going to keep falling for this EA nonsense, and I include myself in that, I swore blind long ago never to buy another Game with EA on the box, but buy it I did, the lure of yet another KOTOR game, with the BIOWARE brand tempting me into yet another purchase, yet another Box Sale. And here we have the reason for the Bioware purchase, simply purchased to be used as nothing more than a brand name with a good reputation to be plastered all over a Box, suckering yet more millions into a purchase of junk, forcing the reputation of a once well respected company into tatters, Bioware themselves were nothing more than a "Box Sale" to EA, how comical is that, something to be used and then thrown away. EA have already moved on, only 5 months in and already EA want investors and shareholders to look at other products, desperately trying to move the focus away from SWTOR, desperate to hide the problem child in a dark and dusty attic, this is not how you treat a long term project, a long term game, an MMO with a large subscriber base, this is short term, it's the EA mantra - "Box Sales ftw, long terms for losers" "Box Sales ftw, long terms for losers" "Box Sales ftw, long terms for losers" Go on sing it folks, you might as well, because we all keep falling for it, and EA will keep doing it, because Box Sales are quick easy profit, and long term is hard work. You can bury your head in the sand, But the truth will still kick you in the ***.

They would have to Pay me a monthly sub to make me play for another 3 months, seriously, I am not joking. The game is still a Beta, it's an unfinished product, charging people a monthly sub to "playtest" the game amounts to nothing more than theft, lol Ooops nearly forgot to add - In my opinion.

Brosephiine, The fire from the sky still falls. Nine days, and counting.

Voidstar, I am stood on top of a dividing wall just inside a starting spawn point, and down below there is a Sent ripping someone to shreds, so I start hitting him with TM, my TM is hitting him for crap dmg, but thats another story, anyway, he tears his target apart and it's fairly obvious that he is now going to turn his attention to me. But I am thinking I am ok, I have two kicks, both off CD, so I am kinda ready for him (lol, in my dreams), and Boom he force leaps up to me and hits me once before I kick him off, I look at my health and notice that I am now missing about a 3rd of my health, but I figure he's gotta wait out a CD to come back up giving me a little time, At this point he does not even bother to LOS me, he simply Force Leaped up to me again, within seconds, we are talking no more than 3-5 secs, so I quickly use my second kick and boot him off again, and at this point I figure that now he really does have to wait out a CD, giving me some time to heal up, with only two jump ups he has pritty much torn me apart. So what does he do, he goes on a little run around, does not even bother to LOS me, he simply runs in a circle pattern for what lasted no more than about 5 secs, then yep you guessed it - Boom, he's back up, in my face, thats the 3rd Force Leap in under 15 secs. I should point out that the dividing wall that I was stood on was very narrow and short, there was no way to LOS him to stop him from Force Leaping up to me, but I was not expecting 3 Force Leaps in under 15 secs, anyway, he tore me apart, was not even close. At the time I put it down to hacking, I simply could not believe that Mara/Sent could simply spam Force Leap. But it turns out they can, and not only that, while spamming Force Leap, they can be almost totally imune to any kind of burst dmg and can make stuns nothing more than a wasted GCD. Still, if people still want to carry on kidding themselfs that Mara/Sent are balanced then thats fine, makes no diff to me, because I have stopped wasting time on this silly childish nonsense of a game.

The Truth in one short sentance ^^ And nice post OP, just a shame that no Dev's will ever read it.

What happened to real Games ? Title corrected, now if you work from this point onwards, you will have all your answers.

Well, I have decided that I am not gonna hang around any longer, I am not a FOTM kinda player, I pick a class and stick with it, just my bad luck I chose BH Merc, and I sure as hell aint gonna re-roll back to 50 again with another class. Sub cancelled, at which point Bioware have given me a free month, lolz Downloading the GW2 Beta client as I type this, not sure it will be any better, but it sure as hell can not be any worse. I refuse to be nothing more than Cannon Fodder for Glowsticks. /wave

And that's exactly what they want you to do, They are going to keep Buffing and Nerfing every class in an endless cycle of FOTM hell, untill everyone has rolled every class in the game. Do you think that what is happening with regards to Class balance is happening by accident ? No, these idiots think that they can keep people playing, and keep subscriber numbers high by forcing re-rolls,

Flamethrower is useless, I sometimes use it when 3 or 4 targets are packed together, I hit Flamethrower and then spin round setting everyone on fire, NOT because it does any kind of serious damage, the dmg output is pathetic, all the other classes just look at you as if to say "you just blew a GCD on that crap ?", but simply because it's kinda fun and makes me giggle to set people on fire. in other words I have given up, and I'm just setting fire to people because graphically it looks kinda nice, and makes me giggle. This should give you an idea of just how terrible Merc BH is in PvP at the moment, when a player is reduced to setting people on fire just for the giggles as a momentry release from the utter boredom that our useless Class has now become. Childish yes, but then the game has become childish, set up just to keep the Glowstick kids happy.

Before getting my BM set I used to PvP in either a full Recruit set or a PvE set that consisted of Orange Gear with purple mods, ie a pritty basic duff PvE set tbh, Every day I would swap from one to the other, and tbh it made no blinkin diff, lol The TTK is so fast now that wearing the Recruit set had no effect, but with the PvE set I could at least dish out some dmg, the Recruit set simply gimped my Aim stat by a huge amount, and actually gave me less Health, lol The Recruit Set costs over 300k, it's way to high, people just regard it as junk and dont bother, and I can not really blame them tbh. With regards to this - "I cold probably take on 3 pve geared players and walk away victorious that is how poor pve gear fares." Mara/Sent can take on 3 PvP geared players and walk away victorious, lol So your point is ? Truth is, PvP atm is a farce, And people are complaining because fresh 50's are not wearing junk overpriced Recruit gear, If full BM wont stop a ROFLstomp, then Recruit aint gonna do anything.

You should apply for a job as lead Play Tester with Bioware, no really, I think you would get it, really I do....... I can imagine the convo's - McCloud - "k, I just got 500+ dmg with a Merc, Mercs are fine, next Class please. Cleaning Lady - "Errr hang on, you did not kill anyone.................." McCloud - "Means nothing, next class, move on please" Cleaning Lady - "Errr hang on, you had a pocket healer....................." McCloud - "Means Nothing, next class, move on please" Cleaning Lady - "Err hang on, the other Team was *****.........." McCloud - "Means Nothing, next class, move on please" Cleaning Lady - "Errrr no, hang on, you stood on one spot with a pocket healer baby sitting you while you nuked anything that moved, I just watched you while cleaning the floor" McCloud - "I demand that the Cleaning Lady be removed from this office, I simply cannot do my job and judge whether a class is balanced while someone is offering constructive criticism regarding the matter" Cleaning Lady - "k, you clean the floor then, I was getting bored anyway" McCloud - "Right next Class, Sentinel, I just ROFLstomped 3 people in a row without losing any health, and then vanished when someone targeted me cos I got a bit scared, yep, Sents are fine, next Class." Cleaning Lady as she is dragged from the room - Errrrrrrrr, hang on...........

I think a good case could be made for Pushback protection being placed as standard in all 3 tree's tbh. Or in other words the Bounty Hunter Merc tree's need a complete overhaul, considering the current state of PvP with regards to TTK and the melee classes simply being able to ROFLstomp a Bounty Hunter, regardless of what spec he chooses. If Bioware intended Arsenal to be a PvE raiding spec and Pyro to be a PvP spec, then they need to give both easy access to pushback protection, pushback protection is just as important in PvE as it is in PvP. And if Pyro was indeed intended as a PvP spec, then it needs more Defensive focus, ie it needs something that boosts our ability to survive an a focused attack, or at least slow it down a bit, allowing the Bounty Hunter to gain a certain amount of revenge, this would increase the fun factor. Fun factor being the biggest problem in PvP atm, due to players being nuked so fast that they feel like they contributed nothing to the Warzone, a fast TTK simply makes people give up, this is shown all the time now in Warzones with people simply going to a safe defensive location and then just simply farming def medals.

I am using this atm - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZbIrbdhhrs.1 The 2 points in System Calibrations can be placed in Advanced Targeting, but full BM gear has a large amount of accuracy on it, so you dont really need anymore, but 4% Alacrity is not exactly much better tbh. If your having Heat problems then the 2 points in Infrared Sensors can be moved to Rapid Venting, this will knock 30 secs of the CD, in PvP I find that CD reduction a waste of points so I dont bother. Another build worth considering is this - http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300ZMIkZbIrbdhhrs.1 In this build you are giving up 3% Crit in exchange for a 75% reduction in pushback on your Power Shot and Unload, the 3 points in Hired Muscle have been moved to Stabilizers, 3% Crit is alot of Crit, whether you want to trade that for Pushback protection is up to you, I prefer the Crit tbh. Some notes regarding Pyro - Pyro Spec will NOT stop you from getting ROFLstomped, people are simply swapping from Arsenal to Pyro because Arsenal is broken atm, they are not swapping for better survivability. Pyro Spec will however make you more Mobile, alot more Mobile, Arsenal Spec is a stationary Gun Turret, once your posistion on the battlefield is located by the Glowstick Brigade you will be focused and removed, fast. Pyro Spec will simply allow you to dish out dmg on the run, it gives you the option to keep moving IF YOU WANT TO, you can revert to stationary if the situation allows it, in other words it's flexible.

Yep me 2, I love Arsenal, been Arsenal spec since my very first talent spec, I have PvP'ed all the way to valor 62 with Arsenal and loved it all the way, I listened to all the comments about how boring it was to play, but enjoyed it. But atm it "feels" broken, and you have to bear in mind that in PvP it's mostly based on feel, you aint got time to start watching numbers, you need a target dummy for stuff like that, I think something is just broken, when they made some changes they broke it, and will probably un-break it at some point. Anyway, I am getting my kicks from Pyro now, not gonna wait around for Bioware to sort things out. Sent are still ROFLstomping me, but I kinda got used to it now, it's like a pain barrier that you have to go through, sooner or later you will come out the other side, and the sun will shine.

Probably best that you dont look at the War Hero Eliminator Blasters then, If lets say you are full BM gear, and you decide to upgrade your weapons first, a fairly sensible thing to do, you will lose 196 Power, oouch.

Yep, full BM valor 62 Merc, My TM is doing crap dmg, my Heatseeker is doing crap dmg and for some strange reason Rail Shot is almost useless, what on earth is going on is beyond me, So today I gave up with Arsenal and did a re-spec to Pyro, the diff is simply stunning, all my skills are doing really nice dmg, and Rail Shot is hitting very hard, plus Power Shot is also very good. Considering that I am now having to learn from scratch a new build (i had been Arsenal for a very long time) Pyro is making Arsenal look like a complete joke, something is badly broken. Anyway, I plan on staying Pyro from now onwards.

Jet Pack escape sitting on 66% already, Bioware, the lore states it, the films show it, you can't ignore it, We want a Jet Pack that does something.

This yes, Or any ability/skill that makes use of our Jet Pack, anything, something, atm our jet pack is just a pointless waste of space, so ANYTHING jet pack related gets my vote. If I had to create something myself then - Skill - Jet lag Hovers the Bounty Hunter in the air for 5 secs, during this time he cannot be interupted, stunned, rolfstomped or upset in any way shape or form, also while Jet lag is active all dmg vs Mara/Sent is increased by 3000%, when Jet lag ends the Bounty Hunter auto dances on the spot.

Looking on the bright side... It could be worse... We could also have the worst looking PvP armor in the game..... No, wait, that dont work either, Bugger.

We are supposed to be Jedi killers, or at least thats what the Lore tells us, Truth is, Bioware will never let us be Jedi killers, it's obvious to anyone with even half a brain that the Glowstick classes have all the mobility, stuns, interupts, def cd's and dmg. The Bounty Hunter is left with nothing, 2 kicks and a Tracer Spam, a stationary gun turret that can be removed in the blink of the eye. The last time I looked at my armor, I am pritty sure I noticed a Jet Pack, yeah, I love the way Bioware follow the Star Wars Lore by putting a Jet pack on my back, but then refuse point blank to give me any kind of mobility, or indeed any kind of skills that make use of it, Death from Above being the one exception, and what did they do, nerfed Death from Above. Its a farce, it's blatently obvious that Bioware simply do not want the BH to be a counter to anything, they dont even want us in the game. I can imagine the Dev meeting at the start of the Game development - "Omg, we gotta put Bounty Hunters in the game" "Are you sure ?" "Yep, they are in the Lore, the films, everything, O......M.......G" "Oh crap, can they kill jedi ?" "Yep" "Oh double crap, that's screwed it" "Wait, I got an idea, lets just make them USELESS" "Oh mate your just fantastic, thats gonna work, spot on, now I understand why your the Lead Dev" "Thank me later, when the money rolls in" "k"

The first time I saw a Sorc with one of those pointy witches hats, not sure what armor set it is, PvE set of some sort, I just fell about laughing, kind of broke the game immersion a little bit, lol Then we could mention the Mara armor that has Metal Working vices on the shoulders, lol "Hang on Darth, I just need to cut this 3 quarter inch cooper tube, got a leaky rad, then i'll be right with ya for some killing" Fantastic post OP And tbh, I think they simply ran out of time, because some of the armor as you state is very very good, but yes, the end game armor is truly horrific, both PvP and PvE.

Tend to agree with this, At least with Sorc/Sage you had the option to LOS the buggers, and much fun could be had from simply running round pillers with a Sorc/Sage chasing you, it was huge fun, And now were back to the key point again, FUN, it's supposed to be FUN for gods sake, Mara/Sent are just killing all the fun, because they are just ROLF stomping all over everyone, and you can't get away from it, kick them of platforms, lol, within seconds there back again. If they decide they are taking you down, You go down, full stop, the only time you dont go down is when they either switch to higher prio target, or they attempt to bail because they just spotted back up comming over the hill. Anyway, whats the point ? We just spent 5 years in WoW, going round in endless circles with all this balance nonsense, And now we are just gonna do it all over again in SWTOR, it's a flippin lol fest.

Exactly, Perhaps Bioware could let every class apart from Mara/Sent bring one of our companions along with us while we engage in this farce called PvP, I sometimes wonder whether people even understand the word Balance in PvP, the notion that they could put forward "Bring along a friend" as a counter to a class just beggers belief tbh.