The Secret to Guardian Tanking

[Kaellis]

Guardians don't have a rotation, they have a priority list depending on the situation and what's available and what's needed (focus gain or focus dump, AoE or single target). Your frustration probably has to do with thinking you should have a set rotation as a guardian.

[Tuumke]

Guardians don't have a rotation, they have a priority list depending on the situation and what's available and what's needed (focus gain or focus dump, AoE or single target). Your frustration probably has to do with thinking you should have a set rotation as a guardian.

 

I agree.

One needs to see if they need to interrupt a target, slow them down, do some AoE to get more agro, stun or build up focus / debufss on target...

 

it's not simply: skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, skill 4, skill 5, skill 6 let 5 and 6 on cool down and return to 1 till 4 till 5 and 6 are from cooldown.

 

You actually have to see what is going on and react... (it's not like it's WoW )

-edit-

p.s. not flaming WoW so dont start with it either!

i'm a WoW player as well! Don't want this topic with useless posts about it...

Edited January 6, 2012 by Tuumke

[FalcoLombardi]

I've decided to try Unremmeting like you suggested. Though I don't know how I feel about it only lasting 4 seconds. Here's my new setup

 

Defense (top to bottom)

-0-

-2-2

2-0-1-1

-2-1-2

0-0-1-3

-0-2-3

-3-2-2

 

Vigilance (from Unremmeting down)

 

0-0-2-0

-3-2-0

-0-3-2

[EvanSnowWolf]

I read the entire thread.

 

The problem I have with the OP's build and playstyle is that it seems nigh-impossible to pull off without a Naga razor. I don't like the idea of mandatory and expensive peripherals just to play a class.

[FalcoLombardi]

I read the entire thread.

 

The problem I have with the OP's build and playstyle is that it seems nigh-impossible to pull off without a Naga razor. I don't like the idea of mandatory and expensive peripherals just to play a class.

 

Wouldn't know about that. But the build I recently posted just didn't play smooth to me for some reason. So I went back to my old one which is focused on the Defense tree and getting Force Sweep's damage up

 

Edit: Forgot why I made this post in the first place. I know I should hit Enure at the start of a battle but when should I hit Saber Ward and Warding Call?

Edited January 9, 2012 by FalcoLombardi

[FtenEQ]

Wouldn't know about that. But the build I recently posted just didn't play smooth to me for some reason. So I went back to my old one which is focused on the Defense tree and getting Force Sweep's damage up

 

Edit: Forgot why I made this post in the first place. I know I should hit Enure at the start of a battle but when should I hit Saber Ward and Warding Call?

 

Honestly you are better off using a damage reduction cooldown at the start of a battle(and/or at predictable moments when you know a high damage ability is coming). You want to use Enure when your healers are having issues, being targeted by RSTS abilities and/or are otherwise incapable of healing.

 

Using Enure, will give you an automatic heal, it actually increases your %HP relatively(even though realistically it probably should not), for a period of time and give your healers more breathing room than a damage reduction cooldown would.

 

Also, Razer Naga is in no way required to play a defense skilled guardian. You just have to get creative with binds. I only use my naga for 6 buttons but I could easily have them bound to other things.

 

So I do 1-6

Shift 1-6

Shift + G, F, T, R, B, V, C, X and I'm sure I could find a few others for less-hit buttons.

 

Just work on your APM!

[Atamasama]

Edit: Forgot why I made this post in the first place. I know I should hit Enure at the start of a battle but when should I hit Saber Ward and Warding Call?

Hitting Enure at the start of a battle is wasting it. The point is to keep you alive when you'd otherwise die, it's useless otherwise. If your health is low and your healer can't get to you, it will save you, or if you're soloing something and you're almost dead, hit it and live just long enough to kill the enemy. If you use it at the start, you get temporary health, but it will go away after 10 seconds and then it's gone and you've gained absolutely nothing from it.

 

If it's a difficult fight (a boss fight for example), my advice is to use Saber Ward or Warding Call early, but not necessarily at the same time, you should space them out a bit. If it's a really long fight, using one of them early might guarantee you can use it again before the fight is over.

 

If you're fighting a tough enemy solo (like a champion), use Warding Call immediately, then Call on the Force, which starts a health regen on you and your companion and refreshes the CD on Warding Call you just used. The sooner you use Call on the Force, the better, because it heals for an entire minute and using it soon makes sure you squeeze the full benefit out of it, but for obvious reasons you want to use Warding Call first.

[KoBi]

Hitting Enure at the start of a battle is wasting it. The point is to keep you alive when you'd otherwise die, it's useless otherwise. If your health is low and your healer can't get to you, it will save you, or if you're soloing something and you're almost dead, hit it and live just long enough to kill the enemy. If you use it at the start, you get temporary health, but it will go away after 10 seconds and then it's gone and you've gained absolutely nothing from it.

 

If it's a difficult fight (a boss fight for example), my advice is to use Saber Ward or Warding Call early, but not necessarily at the same time, you should space them out a bit. If it's a really long fight, using one of them early might guarantee you can use it again before the fight is over.

 

If you're fighting a tough enemy solo (like a champion), use Warding Call immediately, then Call on the Force, which starts a health regen on you and your companion and refreshes the CD on Warding Call you just used. The sooner you use Call on the Force, the better, because it heals for an entire minute and using it soon makes sure you squeeze the full benefit out of it, but for obvious reasons you want to use Warding Call first.

 

I think Call on the Force is refreshing Saber Ward actually, not Warding Call, isn't it?

So in your "solo champion" strategy you should start with Saber Ward to get it immediatly cooldowned by CotF. I like this strategy, anyway. I used it with the tough sith boss on the dismissed mining facility, the "sons of the emperor" one, and defeated him first time.

[FalcoLombardi]

Honestly you are better off using a damage reduction cooldown at the start of a battle(and/or at predictable moments when you know a high damage ability is coming). You want to use Enure when your healers are having issues, being targeted by RSTS abilities and/or are otherwise incapable of healing.

 

Using Enure, will give you an automatic heal, it actually increases your %HP relatively(even though realistically it probably should not), for a period of time and give your healers more breathing room than a damage reduction cooldown would.

 

Also, Razer Naga is in no way required to play a defense skilled guardian. You just have to get creative with binds. I only use my naga for 6 buttons but I could easily have them bound to other things.

 

So I do 1-6

Shift 1-6

Shift + G, F, T, R, B, V, C, X and I'm sure I could find a few others for less-hit buttons.

 

Just work on your APM!

 

Cool, thanks. I haven't been able to work with a REAL healer on my Jedi Knight yet, haven't done any end game stuff. Reason I used Enure at the start of the fight is for that initial health boost, occassional combined with Warding Call to reduce the damage I took because, at my current health, when Enure runs out, I lose 5200 health.

 

My current key setup is:

 

Top Bottom Bar. F1-12

 

Bottom Bottom Bar. 1-=

 

Left Quickslot. Shift+1-=. But i only got my defensive buffs, Awe, Relics and Call on the Force on it

 

Right Quickslot. Numpad 1-0, alt+- and alt+=. This is another bar I don't use much, it has more permanent stuff, Soresu Form, Sprint, Force Might, OOCH, Medpacs or Stims if I have them. My speeder and Quick Travel are assigned to the alt key combos

[Fazoolio]

This is for the OP.

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain everything so well. I am new to MMO's and to be honest, have not played a video game in over 10 years. To say things were somewhat confusing to start would be a great understatement.

 

With some friends help and many hours of reading, I'm starting to figure things out. Your post basically explained everything i didn't know yet (some abilities, what they did, when to use them etc)

 

I feel like i can play my Jedi so much better now !

[Yngwe]

If you're fighting a tough enemy solo (like a champion), use Warding Call immediately, then Call on the Force, which starts a health regen on you and your companion and refreshes the CD on Warding Call you just used. The sooner you use Call on the Force, the better, because it heals for an entire minute and using it soon makes sure you squeeze the full benefit out of it, but for obvious reasons you want to use Warding Call first.

 

I agree with this with one caveat. Most of the story bosses have some mechanic that, if you get it, you will win. If you don't get it, you will die. Because Call on the Force has such a long cooldown, if story bosses take you several tries, you should not use Call on the Force on your first or second try. Wait until you know the fight mechanic, then employ this tactic. It will likely be what you need to go from a 20% death to a win.

[joedinkslap]

Wow thanks for the awesome info, you helped me make a few decision on spec I was wondering about. I only started playing a few days ago and was a touch lost in how to go about tanking. Thanks again man most of us appeeciate it!!!

[theothersteve]

A large amount of the OP's information is outdated, inaccurate, or misleading. I would like it either removed as sticky or rewritten. Part of my complaint is that the writer attempts to address pve tanking in Defense and pvp with Guard in Vigilance with the same comments. They have less in common than Smuggler DPS and Trooper DPS.

 

I have more complaints than the following. I just grabbed a few of the more blatant ones.

 

Skills:

 

 

• No listing of Enure.
  
• No listing of Stasis.
  
• No listing of Hilt Strike.
  
• Comparison of Slash to Guardian Slash is strange as Slash has no cooldown, so they have entirely different roles.
  
• Damage analysis of Cyclone Slash is highly inaccurate. Using it on only two enemies deals substantially more total damage than using Slash.
  
• Damage analysis of Dispatch is highly inaccurate. It deals nearly double the damage of Slash for the same focus cost.
  

 

 

Skill Tree Abilities:

 

Dust Storm comes out to an estimated 2% mitigation per talent point, substantially higher than many required skills.

Defiance is nearly useless against the majority of PVE bosses. PVP skill.

Pacification comments are based on misconception with Cyclone Slash.

Command is unnecessary if you actually use Cyclone Slash.

Hilt Strike comments are illogical, unless you're implying that you need to attack an opponent for one minute continuously in order to use Hilt Strike, which is inaccurate.

Stasis Mastery comments are wrong. With the talent, it is instant cast, and doesn't take three seconds.

Overhead Slash comment is a misleading blanket statement as it fails to factor in GCD and ability locking of rotations.

Inner Peace comments are misleading. Any tank with raiding experience knows the value of Last Stand. The OP has clearly never raided as a tank before.

 

I would be willing to work on the rewrite if I got some support. This guide, while well-meaning, is currently an eyesore and is going to lead to bad tanks and a misled community.

[Yngwe]

@theothersteve:

 

Right or wrong, I am primarily following the defense tree (which you seem to be advocating). Long-term goal is endgame pve. Do you see any issues with this build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMGcudrouRZhMM.1

 

One issue I keep thinking over is whether to invest my final points in Accuracy or Perseverance.

 

Thanks!

[Fifthorizor]

Seriously, thanks for the guide.

[theothersteve]

I took the points out of Momentum and Command and took both, myself. As cool as it is, Momentum isn't a lot of focus per fight per point, and I like to use moves other than Blade Storm after I charge. Which, yes, does mean it's a waste of a point for me.

 

Good spec though.

 

*edit* Misread and thought you were the guy who wrote it.

Edited January 10, 2012 by theothersteve

[Yngwe]

Good point. Thanks!

[Kaellis]

I don't think it needs to be taken down, but I think it being labeled "The secret" to guardian tanking is a bit misleading.

 

You can tank just fine going full defense. However, you can also tank just fine going the route presented in this thread, although in my opinion, you should add a note: You will be leaping all over the place.

 

The build is viable, if you use your leaps on cooldown and leap back and forth to keep the damage reduction procs ticking at frequent intervals. If you fall behind on your leaping, you are going to end up misusing this spec and hurting yourself for not going full defense.

 

It also has other opportunity costs (like no hilt strike and force stasis being channeled, which together make you lose two interrupts/incapacitates). Overall, I just don't like this spec being taken as "the right way to tank" over going full defense, because full defense is absolutely viable--and is a lot less twitchy and more versatile to boot.

 

That said, good job on finding a hybrid spec for tanking. Obviously there are a lot of people who enjoy it.

[theothersteve]

My problem with this post is that it has a large amount of information that is patently false. Hybrid spec viability notwithstanding.

[Oobly]

I've been studying the skills and abilities carefully and I think the OP underestimates at least 6 of the skills.

 

1. Guardian slash: The triple sunder stack means you only need to hit the target with one talented sunder strike to have a full sunder stack on the target. On a 15s cooldown it matches the sunder duration, so you can keep the stacks going. Good damage, too. Means you can use the extra sunders on other targets when you need to generate focus and that means they all die more quickly.

 

2. Blade Barrier: A "moderate" damage absorb every 12s adds up and seems to be quite valuable if geared properly. Depends on the number of mobs hitting you whether this or protector is better, though.

 

3. Cyclonic Slash: Does more damage than he seems to think and is a great AoE threat generator (vitally needed since there aren't many in the guardian arsenal). Just try to keep the mobs all in "the zone" when using it.

 

4. Cyclonic Sweep: This is a great focus generator. 2 focus every 6 seconds from soresu form. Adds up nicely over longer battles. The combat focus CD reduction is rather meh, though.

 

5. Inner Peace: 4% damage reduction on the types of damage that ignore your armour is very nice. Would be nicer if it were higher, though. The extra 5s duration on enure can mean a lot near the end of a battle.

 

6. Dispatch: Really good damage, good range and only 3 points to use.

 

That said, unremitting, effluence, protector and overhead strike are all awesome tanking skills, too.

 

I think both primarily defense and hybrid builds are equally viable to tank with. Overall, I consider a 31/10/0 build and a 23/18/0 roughly equivalent, depending on play style. And that is really the major difference to me. It's how you play.

 

So I reckon give both builds a try and see which suits your general play style or the way you play a particular char better.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Oobly

[Mystry]

Is the first post supposed to be a filler?

 

Is there a link to what was there BEFORE it became filler, because I don't see a guide there.

[KadanAlistar]

Wth where did this go? I've been using it, anywhere I can find it?

[xaglacion]

Sad you removed your guide.. It was so helpful and now I feel like a naked baby in the woods without it.

 

Thanks for letting me use it for a week or so...

[Gregarius]

At least I have two builds bookmarked:

 

lvl 40

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500rMG0uMZhGr0M.1

and lvl 45

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMG0uMzZhGrMM0z.1

 

Jeeezzz, bring the guide back m8. It was useful for guys like me without great tanking experience.

[Yandar]

You can still view it on google cache

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sSwLkLs3NqoJ:www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php%3Ft%3D1780+http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php%3Ft%3D1780&cd=1&hl=da&ct=clnk&gl=dk

 

Or for the lazy:

 

This is it!! The guide you’ve been looking for. Right here!

 

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT JEDI GUARDIAN TANKS!!

This is my opinion (with the help and support of many who wish to be the best Guardian Tank possible). Any recommendations herein represent my thoughts and experiments while Beta testing. This information is valid as of the last build used during the last test, and I do not promise similar results in any future builds.

 

FYI on post page 16 there is a follow-on to this guide: To add a bit of Q & A

 

 

Q) But, Seraphimm, you ask, what makes you an expert in either the Jedi Guardian or in Tanking in General?

We’ll I’m glad you asked, ambiguous forum stranger. Let me give you some of my background. You may recognize a few tanks in the bunch. Shadow Knight in EQ, Guardian in EQ2, Ninja in FFXI, Jedi in SWG, Invulnerability tank in City of Heroes, Warrior in GW2 (briefly), Ice Tank in DCUO, Protection Pally and Feral Druid in WOW, Warrior in DAoC, Templar in Aion, Bear Shaman in Conan, AND I Fly Blaster Boats in Eve (though this might give me negative points)!! Oh and level 50 Jedi Guardian during Beta! Well there you are, decide for yourself.

 

Q2) Why on earth, Mr. Seraphimm, would I want to play a Jedi?

Well, aren’t we all questions today. As a Jedi, you get to carry a lightsaber (I mean how cool is that?), you get your own astro droid, AND you get a mouthy little vixen with a saucy eyes that follows you around and calls you master from time to time. Winning.

 

Q2a) But Mr. Seraphimm, I hate astro droids, and I get the other two things as Stih.

Yes, Mr. Negative questions, but as a Jedi you don’t have to worry about your higher-ups Force-Choking you because you missed a spot on that toilet you cleaned that morning…. ENOUGH with the questions.

 

Below are my views on the skills geared toward Tanking as a Jedi Guardian. I’m not worried about DPS except for the purposes of increasing hate. These are my views on the skills and traits with associated trees that are best for tanking. I will not tell you what you HAVE to take, I will tell you what I think of each ability and rank them from 5 (best) to 1 (worst) in both PvE and PvP environments. I will list every skill and ability so there are fewer questions.

I will also offer various combat ‘suggestions’ with the combat rotation I would use. Feel free to use whatever you think would work better, or just better for you. It won’t hurt my feelings. Ok, without any further disclaimers..

 

Disclaimer – These views were tested in a ‘beta test’ environment, so do not express capability concerning content not available during test, or changes to content/Advanced classes. My combat suggestions aren’t telling you how to play and do not represent the optimal tactics in every environment. I will not be responsible for your results even if you follow my suggestions to the letter. Nor will I be liable for any crappy healers you might be grouped/friends with. This post is void in AK or HI.

 

 

SKILLS: (rating PvE/PvP)

 

Soresu Form (5/2.5)

This is the form for tanking. It reduces the focus you get from your focus building strikes (Force Leap, Strike, Sundering Strike). It also, however, increases threat, and reduces damage taken. Also gives you focus as you take damage. Many have said Jedi Guardians don’t have any threat generating skills. This form makes everything you do a threat generating skill.

 

Challenging Call (5/3.5)

Challenging call is like any AOE taunt, but for the fact that it lasts for 6 seconds. This skill does not change threat- you will have to do that yourself. This skill will, however, force the mob to attack you for 6 seconds regardless of who has the most threat. It’s your job to make sure you have the most threat by the time it wears off. Use it often, as threat is currently very quickly gained and lost. It uses no focus so even using it on single targets (provided you are out of range of adds) isn’t a waste. This skill has a 15meter radius. This skill is given a PvP rating because, when used on other players, it severely reduces their DPS against anyone but you. Very useful, particularly if they can’t reach you!

 

Taunt (5/3)

Like Challenging Call but single target. Has longer range though at 30meters. Good single pull mechanic. Use it as you will but I generally rely on challenging call and save my taunts for unexpected threat spikes or mobs that randomly drop threat (several do it).

 

Sundering Strike (5/5)

This is your primary focus generator. It replaces the normal strike when you get it because not only does it generate focus, it also applies a sunder armor effect. Once you start using skill tree points, you can make it apply 2 effects of sundering armor and generate an extra point of focus. The downside is it has a 4.5 second cool down. So you’ll still have to strike occasionally.

 

Strike (4.5/4.5)

Builds focus. If you need focus and just used sundering strike, then use it. Otherwise skip it.

 

Force Leap (5/5)

Builds Focus and gets you into melee range AND does damage and threat. This is your primary range closing ability. 15 second cool down and 30meter range.

 

Force Sweep (5/5)

Has several modifications in your skill tree that range from making it free to adding up to 45% extra damage (close to perma-crit damage levels). This is your primary AOE damage and threat generator and does very well as that. Use it often. Plus it’s fun as hell!!

 

Riposte (5/5)

A great ability that unlocks anytime you parry or deflect an attack. This ability does good damage and cannot be dodged, parried, or blocked. It also doesn’t pay attention to the global cool down. When skill tree abilities are picked, this ability also uses less focus and applies up to 6% bonus defense. I highly suggest you use this at every opportunity; use it as often as you possibly can.

 

Blade Storm (4/4)

Your first focus sink. It’s expensive but worth it. It does very good DPS (for you) and has several modifications that include making it cost less, causing a shield to surround you, and causing your foe to catch fire. Just a good all round ability, with a 12 second cool down.

 

Saber Throw (4/4)

Gets more points because it’s one of our very few ranged abilities, AND it builds focus. The only reason it’s not a 5/5 is because you don’t get it until 36. Once you get it, you’ll love it and even find yourself throwing it at opponents right there in your face. I just wished I had it 10 levels before.

 

Slash (4/4)

Good Damage, but it’s expensive. Use it when you don’t have riposte available and plenty of focus. Generally gets replaced later by Overhead Slash/Guardian Slash, as those two skills are only 1 more focus.

 

Force Push (4/5)

Costs no focus, but has a 60 second cool down. Fun to use and lets you use force leap again in PvE (as well as help keep mobs where you want and interrupt them. Is amazing in PvP when used to push baddies off ledges, bridges, cliffs, into Acid, into Fire, etc.

 

Master Strike (3.5/3)

This is a very flashy and very good ability, in general. The only real problem is while it’s not channeled directly, the attack itself takes a few seconds to actually finish once started. This means it is easy to interrupt by both your opponent and even yourself if you’re not careful. I have gone up and down on this skill and it gets extra points because it costs no focus. The fact that it is so easy to interrupt and it takes so long puts it in the center for me even though it does very good damage for a free attack.

 

Pommel Strike (2.5/2.5)

High damage, No focus. Only useable against incapacitated enemies. Very good to use in the limited opportunities you have to use it.

 

Opportune Strike (2/2)

Same as Pommel Strike, but does less damage and is used for those that aren’t completely stunned but are slowed or rooted.

 

Cyclone Slash (1.5/1)

Sounds good doesn’t it? 5 targets 1 strike.. until you realize it’s 5 random targets (so if you have more than five it isn’t a good way to keep threat on all of them) and then there is the damage, which sucks. It does less than your slash distributed among all five enemies. So it’s like SUCK divided by 5.

 

Combat Focus (5/5)

Free focus….. Did I mention Free Focus?

 

Freezing Force (3/4)

Nice ability when you think you have a runner, or to keep groups moving slow while you’re hopping around. More useful in PvP, as a lot of mobs either stand still and shoot you or stand still and smack you. You won’t find a lot of use slowing them down without a specific reason.

 

Guardian Leap (5/5)

My favorite ability and I would have rated it as a 6/6 if we got it before friggen 50. We really need this ~42. Got a DPS who’s wrecking you in threat? This is your answer. I used it every time it was available just so I could then force leap back into the fight to build focus and get free blade storms. I looked like a rubber band bouncing from ally to enemy every 20 seconds, but I kept my healer’s and DPS’ threat down and they had a little extra protection. Plus with PROTECTOR you can apply that 20% damage reduction to yourself.

 

Dispatch (2/3)

Nice, but only useable against enemies under 20% health. I would rate it higher but it uses so much focus and does less damage than slash. Useful if you’re far away from something that’s about to die and you want to help kill it.

 

Awe (3/3)

Good against trash and some elites, but some elites and all bosses ignore it. Makes it fun but you already have so many other things to do

 

Force Kick (5/5)

A kick with some force this time. Your Interrupt and it’s cheap and refreshes quick.

 

Warding Call (5/5)

This is your OH Sh*t button. There are many like it, but this one is yours.

 

Saber Ward (5/5)

This would be an Oh Sh*t button, but it’s less effective against tech and force abilities.

 

 

SKILL TREE ABILITIES

 

These are rated in order of importance according to my experience. I will make a suggestion of REQUIRED or OPTIONAL. This is going to cause major Flames, because some of you will immediately notice I have more points in Vigilance than I do in Defense. It’s OK, don’t PANIC.

 

This game is new, and has some combat mechanics that aren’t in many other games. Forget the term tank and spank, there isn’t enough of that here to warrant the term. Every mob (not even boss) has a host of abilities that range from knocking you on your butt, to blinding you and then knocking you on your butt. They will move, deploy shields, vanish, call in help, taunt you and call you names, and try to trick you into quitting and going home. If you’re looking for “I auto-attack them while they auto-attack me,” you might as well move along.

 

I’m asking you not to get all tangled in a combat tree just because someone labeled it “Defense”. Keep an open mind. Or ignore this whole post and play the way you want. Won’t hurt my feelings.

 

 

FOCUS TREE – Move along. Nothing to see here. This is a DPS tree, tanks won’t find much interest in anything in this tree

 

Tier 1

 

Victory Rush *Defense Tree* -Required. Sundering Strike is your staple. This makes it build back the focus that was taken away by Soresu form.

 

Improved Sundering Strike *Vigilance Tree* -Required. Remember sundering strike? I hope so as it should be your most used button. This makes sundering strike apply a second sunder armor proc.

 

Dust Storm *Defense Tree* -Optional, but highly recommended. Force Sweep is also used every chance you get. This makes everything hit by your sweep have a flat 5% chance of missing you. As a tank taking damage reduces threat, making them miss is always a bonus

 

Swelling Winds *Vigilance Tree* -Optional but highly recommended. Again with force sweep, this makes a great skill awesome. +30% damage on your AOE ability (yes please).

 

Single Saber Mastery *Vigilance Tree* -Required for a PvP guardian, Avoided by PvE tanks. You won’t use either of those forms in PvE tanking. Shien however is a very, very good form for PvP.

 

Momentum *Defense Tree* -Optional, but you’ll be taking at least one point to get to tier 2. I like this perk because you’ll be using Force Leap a lot and maxing this perk makes it free after the leap.

 

TIER 2:

 

Defiance *Vigilance Tree* -Required, required, required. Almost every droid and their mother has a skill that will cause this to give you focus. The following are just some of the things that will give you focus with this perk: Stock-strikes, trip, kick, grenades, bombs, missiles, rockets, punches, High Powered lasers, low powered lasers, heat seekers, Force Chokes, Arrows to the Knee…. Need I go on?

 

Lunge *Defense Tree* -Required. WE already discussed Riposte. This makes it affordable.

 

Guard Stance *Defense Tree* -Required. This is your first defensive perk. Just take it.

 

Perseverance *Vigilance Tree* -Required. We all know Strength is our primary stat. This gives you strength. Tah-dah!

 

Accuracy *Vigilance Tree* -Optional but highly suggested. I discussed all the special abilities the bad guys will use, some of those reduce your accuracy. In many other games, once you are hit capped life is all good. In this game your opponent can take that away from you. If you miss, you don’t make threat.

 

Solidified Force *Defense Tree* -Useful as a PvP Guardian, but you won’t use freezing force much once you become good at force sweep. PvE tanks need not apply for this.

 

TIER 3

 

Unremitting *Vigilance Tree* -Required. Read it carefully, because this is one of the best tanking tools of any tree. Most of the nasty effects used on you are used immediately upon leaping in. This not only reduces all damage by 20% after a leap but also lets you ignore those annoying abilities that are used immediately. It really becomes useful when you force push (or guardian leap away) then Force leap back on your opponent getting the 20% reduction again. Take it and say thanks to the tanking gods.

 

Blade Barricade *Defense Tree* -Required. Also self-explanatory.

 

Warding Call *Defense Tree* -Required. Again self-explanatory.

 

Shien Form *Vigilance Tree* -PvP guardians should take a serious look. PvE tanks won’t want this.

 

Profound Resolution *Defense Tree* -Optional. Marginally better for PvP guardains, but even then the 30 seconds extra on a 2 minute ability isn’t as useful as you might think. I skip it even in PvP as most stuns/holds are short, but this one is situational to play style.

 

Pacification *Defense Tree* -Optional. I skip this, but others flame me constantly on how useful it is. Take it if you insist on getting hilt strike. I also suggest against hilt strike. Otherwise you already increased Force Sweep by 30% and why spend the same points for half the bonus? Don’t forget that even fully modified, cyclone slash is crap.

 

Burning Blade *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. I like this, as I use blade storm after every force jump, but it’s situational and the damage isn’t all that.

 

Gather Strength *Vigilance Tree* -BAD. I think this was designed by someone new to the video game world. A 5% proc that only happens when your movement is impaired and only lasts 10 seconds. Problem is anytime you use focus you use it. The only way to max it out is to let it stack 5 times, meaning you have to find a situation that hampers your movement 5 separate times within 10 seconds of each other and not use ANY focus while doing it. Good Luck!

 

TIER 4

 

Command *Defense Tree* -Required. We already talked about Challenging call. This perk makes Challenging call a 30 second cool down. Meaning you only really have to worry about threat for 24 seconds. This also makes Force Push only 45 seconds.

 

Effluence *Vigilance Tree* -Optional, but highly recommended. Courage takes two points to give you a proc that gives you a chance to make force sweep free. Or for 1 point in Effluence Force Sweep becomes free. Take it, you’ll like it. This is the other reason you become a better tank using vigilance. Hate and damage for free.

 

Shield Spec *Defense Tree* -Optional, but at least partially recommended. I end up getting one point in this, but remember it only gives you a 2% chance to mitigate 20% (proc your shield) and you already got Unremitting… didn’t you?

 

Vigilance *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. I like this one too, but I prefer Overhead slash over guardian slash. This is what makes overhead slash superior to guardian slash which has no modifications.

 

Courage *Defense Tree* -Optional. Not as good as Effluence, not even close. But if you insist on only using the defense tree because it is called defense then you’ll have to take this one.

Narrowed Focus *Vigilance Tree* -Depends. I know I said I’d call it one way or the other, but this is useful if you’re a PvP guardian and you took Shien form, and you can’t have it if you didn’t.

 

Tier 5

 

You are probably running out of points by now if you’ve followed my advice. If you are using the Vigilance tree as suggested you perk of choice is Protector. If you insist on staying in the Defense Tree, you’ll want Blade Barrier. Blade Barrier has issues that may get cleared up at a later date and in my opinion isn’t working as intended. Plus the more damage your opponents do the higher benefit you get from Protector. Protector really comes into use when you start rubber-banding (using Force Leap/Guardian Leap in unison). But that isn’t until level 50 when you get Guardian Leap so feel free to hold on this decision.

 

Protector *Vigilance Tree* -Required if Vigilance. This gives you the 20% damage reduction that would normally be applied to your ally when you use Guardian Leap, plus a few extra Hit Points. If you have Unremitting and you have Protector it’ll work something like this: Force leap (Gain Unremitting) to opponent, in 18 seconds Guardian Leap (Gain Protector) to your healer/DPS, then immediately Force Leap Back to your opponent (Stacking Unremitting on the Protector for several seconds). Wait 18 seconds then repeat. Unremitting and Protector is as much as Warding Call even if for only a few seconds. Using the combo up to 3 times a minute gives you 4 seconds of 20% and 8 seconds at 40% damage reduction every minute, ON top of your Warding Call.

 

Blade Barrier *Defense Tree* -Required if Defense. This is your defense tree proc of choice. The problem with it, and the reason I ultimately went to the Vigilance tree is that lad Barrier is not working as I feel it was intended to. It currently as of the last couple test builds only stops between 300 and 500 damage. At level 50 that is less than one strike. This is not the ION Shield or the Kinetic Barrier that the other tanks get. This will collapse before anyone ever realizes it was actually on. Useful as you level but at top level end game the Protector/Unremitting bounce trick actually is slightly better, and continues to get better the harder you get hit.

 

Force Clap *Defense Tree* -Good in PvP. I’ve seen too many high end elites and bosses ignore it. Plus it’s so high in the tree unless you go full defense (and we talked about that right?) you can’t afford it.

 

Hilt Strike *Defense Tree* -Required if Defense, but has severe drawbacks. Everyone reads the tool tip that mentions high threat. No one reads the description that it has a 60 second cool down. Be aware that there are several boss fights that can take up to 10 minutes to finish, also be aware that very very few of them have you fighting one single target for more than 2 minutes. Meaning you’ll get to use this ONCE per fight….*maybe*. High threat or not, it’s not enough. If you’re using your force sweep, blade storm, and Challenging call as I suggest you won’t need the 1 strike a minute bonus.

 

Stasis Mastery *Defense Tree* -PVP optional. Not very tanky IMO. Channeled or not, can’t you find something better to do for 3 seconds?

 

Overhead Slash *Vigilance Tree* -Ooooh! This is the poor man’s Guardian Slash. This is what rewards you for going vigilance. Since it is tier 5 and not tier 7 it means you get all the requisite tanking skills in both trees and still have a massive strike. It does ‘almost’ as much damage as Guardian Slash but has a 9 second cool down (Vigilance perk) instead of 15 seconds. This means a NET INCREASE of DPS over Guardian Slash.

 

Burning Purpose *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. I suggest skipping it, Damage is low and at this point would take points from better tanky perks.

 

Force Rush *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. Again unless you are full vigilance (PVP) not enough points.

 

TIER 6

 

Commanding Awe *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. Another good Tanky skill not in the Defense tree. I label this as optional because it is usually too high in the vigilance tree to get it and all the better Defense tree perks. Plus Awe doesn’t work against elites or bosses. If you are all Vigilance then it’s a good one to have. Better than anything in the defense tree.

 

Zen Strike *Vigilance Tree* -Skip it. Math doesn’t work her. At max skill you have a 30% chance every 6 seconds for a 9 second strike to remove the cool down of a 30 second strike. If you used Overhead Slash every time is was available you’d get a max of 3 chances even though it had the ability to proc every 6 seconds (can’t swing overhead slash that fast). Also since Master Strike is so easily interrupted it gets really complicated.

 

Inner Peace *Defense Tree* -Skip It. Enure is so situational, has such a long cool down, and is generally more dangerous to use than not this perk is over-rated. A few extra seconds every couple of minutes is not worth 2 points of tier 6 points IMO.

 

Cyclonic Sweeps *Defense Tree* -Required if you go pure defense. The only tanky part of this perk is the part that only makes it work in Soresu Form. It does reduce Combat Focus, but this perk pales in comparison to the tank perks you can get in the Vigilance tree.

 

Tier 7

 

Guardian Slash *Defense Tree* -Optional. Not as good as Overhead Slash. It does slightly more damage per swing, but at 15 seconds per it loses in Net DPS to the quicker Overhead Slash. It does however Stack 3 additional Sunder Armors. HOWEVER, this ability stops adding any benefit once your opponent is at 5 stacks, and since you got improved sunder armor AND you use Sundering Strike as much as possible to build focus it’s not as hard as you’d think to keep 5 full stacks even without it. In fact If you used Force Leap, Sundering Strike and Reposte In Soresu form, you wouldn’t have enough Focus to use Guardian Slash (thus adding the 3 sunder’s to the 2 from sundering strike). This means you’d have to sunder strike again or more focus, meaning by the time you could apply your 3 sunder armors, the bad guy would already have 4. You’ll have no problems keeping all 5 Sunders on anything with just improved sundering strike as long as you’re keeping it on cool down.

 

Plasma Brand *Vigilance Tree* -Optional. This is a kinda nice proc. Not really one of the better tier 7 abilities in the game, but if you insist on going full vigilance it’ll be the one you get. I would say you’d do better if you wanted to DPS (It has no tank value) by reaching into the focus tree rather than getting this perk.

 

 

 

Did anyone else notice the ‘Defense Tree’ ran out of tank perks at Tier 5? Plus those two either stop so little damage (Blade Barrier), or have such long cool downs (Hilt Strike) that they get trumped by the superior (IMHO) Protector and Commanding Awe. This is why I think the Bottom of the Defense tree and the Center of the Vigilance tree makes for the ‘best’ (again IMHO) perks for a Guardian Tank.

 

Suggested Builds:

Level 30: http://www.torhead.com/calculator/skill#500dMG0uZhMM.1

Level 40: http://www.torhead.com/calculator/sk...rMG0uMZhGr0M.1

Level 45: http://www.torhead.com/calculator/sk...0uMzZhGrMM0z.1

Level 50: http://www.torhead.com/calculator/sk...MzZhGrMMhzzM.1

PVP Option: http://www.torhead.com/calculator/sk...MzZIMroMuzzM.1

 

 

Now for suggested combat mechanics:

 

Fighting one single mob is self-explanatory, and I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence. So this fight will be what is generally thought to be the hardest for a Jedi Guardian.

You have 2 groups of mobs all 10meters apart or so. There is a ranged fighter in each group and several melee support. This is actually a common situation and considered by most best tanked by the trooper/bounty hunter type from range. This rotation will help you make the most of the Jedi Guardian in that situation.

 

BELOW level 50

1- Pick one of the ranged Fighters and Force leap to him, hit HIM with Blade storm.

2- Issue a challenging Call (15meter range).

3- Drag the melee you picked up over to the other group who are also focused on you (Challenging call either reaches them or they are outside agro range and they aren’t an issue anyway)

4- Once you have the melee over by the other ranged mob Drop your Force Sweep (You have now hit everyone before your challenging call wears off.)

5- Begin sundering strikes and ripostes as cool downs allow. You only have to hold threat for 24 seconds before your Challenging Call is available again.

6- Use Force Push to knock primary target away, use Challenging call and force leap to the mob you just knocked away.

 

After level 50

1- Pick one of the ranged fighters and force leap to him.

2- Issue a Challenging Call

3- Drag the melee over to the other ranged mob

4- Drop your Force sweep and macro target your healer/dps

5- Guardian Leap to said healer/dps then immediately Force Leap back to the group you created (You will now have protector and Unremitting on you for 3 seconds)

6- Begin your sundering strikes/ripostes as available

7- As soon as Challenging call is available, use it then Guardian Leap Back to Healer/dps then immediately Force Leap back to the Pack and drop Force Sweep.

 

**If you want some comfort while bouncing around feel free to use force freeze to keep the mobs where you left them.

 

Tips:

1- Challenging call isn’t threat, but will work regardless of other threat for 6 seconds. You’ll need to start generating threat before the 6 seconds is up and they wander off for squishier targets

2- Remember that with my build suggestions force sweep costs no focus, use it every time it’s off cool down. Riposte only costs 1 focus and boosts your defense, use it every time it’s on cool down.

3- Sundering Strike builds 2 sundering armor stacks. Get to 5 ASAP and just maintain. You’ll be using Sundering Strikes for focus every time you can anyway so it won’t be a problem.

 

As you see from my list of skills there are a TON of skills to use. Challenging call, Force Push, Riposte, Force Leap, Guardian Leap, Sundering Strike numerous times, Saber Throw, Overhead Slash, Force Sweep, Blade Storm. I have a 12 button Razor mouse and I had 10 of those buttons mapped as well as another 9 keyboard binds. Moving with the mouse and using all the buttons often.

 

To maximize control I use a 32 second rotation, centralized around Challenging Call. Since Guardian Leap has a 20 second cool down, I use it to time my Force Leap/Guardian leap bounce right in the center of that 24 second period where the goons aren’t effected by my challenging call. This gives me 2 free force sweeps and 2 free blade storms. The rest of the time is riposte and sundering strike/overhead slash as time permits until I can issue another challenging call.

Use Freezing force to slow runners that drop threat (happens with some elites/bosses) and use taunt for single pick-ups between challenging calls.

 

That’s about it. I’m sure the flames will start soon, because I’m not maximizing the defense tree like a good little Guardian. Hopefully a few with open minds will see how effective this really is. It has been tested and will be perfected, starting Tuesday. I reserve to change all information herein if and when certain abilities get fixed/changed (Ahem -Blade Barrier).

May the force (and a good healer) be with you!

 

Seraphimm

 

 

 

--------------------------ADDITIONAL NOTES----------------------------------

 

So I've been doing some pretty serious Blade Barrier testing. I also have been doing lots of research on the mechanics behind this particular mechanic.

 

This is pulled from SITHWARRIOR.com and I am not the source behind these numbers:

 

Elobi Wrote:

I've been trying to find a way to figure the Static barrier/blade barrier for quite some time now.

 

So in the course of figuring out the mechanics behind the barrier I datamined this:

 

 

 

Its from String: Abl/Jedi_Knight/skill/defense/Blade_Barrier/0/2/

 

However, im not that experienced with dataminind and how to navigate the the names, types and value.

 

But can anyone see a connection of some sort ?

 

StandardHealthPercentMin and StandardHealthPercentMax are referring to the values in another table called cbtStandardHealingInfo. (If this was a damage ability, they would be referring to values in cbtStandardDamageInfo).

 

In that table, you will find a several sub-tables of numbers, for various "toughnesses" (weak, normal, strong, etc). If you scroll down about halfway through that table, you'll find a sub-table with the heading "cbtToughness_player".

 

Then there is a list of numbers from 1-50, which is the level at which you last trained a rank of the ability (for trained abilities) or the rank at which the ability becomes available (for skill tree abilities). Since Blade Barrier is the latter, and becomes available at Level 30, the corresponding number is 3670.

 

So the ability absorbs 367 damage.

 

Like a few abilities, Static Barrier is listed under a different (earlier?) name in the data files, and is called "Backlash". For Backlash, you will see StandardHealthPercentMin and StandardHealthPercentMax are 0.164, and the HealingPowerCoefficient is 3.27. Since the last rank of Static Barrier is trainable at Level 50, the corresponding number from the cbtStandardHealing table is 7085.

 

That means StaticBarrier absorbs 0.164*7085 = 1161.94 + 3.27*ForceHealingBonus (at Level 50).

 

So these numbers were really confusing me, so I set up some very controlled tests.

 

These results are my own experience and I have not reached 50 yet. These number will vary depending on your specifics (more on that later).

 

TEST:

The test I set up was an easy (and easily repeatable) duel between my Guardian and a Sage friend of mine. I did this for the simple reason that I wanted him to throw rocks at me.

 

So first test.. I have him throw rocks at me until I am hit by 3 in a row without a shielding proc (was easy enough). All three hits did between ~600 to ~750 damage each.

 

Now I simply hit him with a Blade Storm, allowing Blade Barrier to proc. He then immediately hit me with another Telekinetic attack for a Whopping 30 damage.

 

So this very simply and hardly scientific test told me that my Blade Barrier stopped about 700 damage.

 

However according to the math: StaticBarrier absorbs 0.164*7085 = 1161.94 + 3.27*ForceHealingBonus

 

I should be stopping much more than the ~700, so that got me thinking...

 

The answer was fairly easy. Checking my defensive stats I found my Armor was reducing incoming damage by just over 37%

 

Now I'm not 50 but I do have alot of +power additions currently (I was leveling not tanking) so That had some influence over the *FORCEHEALINGBONUS* part of the equation.

 

But the simple and un-scientific part of the math showed that the reason I had found Blade Barrier so lack luster in Beta was because of the order in which the damage was applied.

 

That is, ~40% (depending on your armor) of the damage that Blade Barrier absorbs you would not be taking anyway. The damage reduction from your armor score would mitigate that percentage of the total.

 

This was a bit suprising, and explains why I didn't much care for it during testing. While Blade Barrier does absorb far more damage that I thought at first, it isn't damage that would ever be realized.

 

 

Also now that I know the mechanice behind the skill, I also know how to amplify the skill. That's both good news and bad news.

 

The good news is you can boost the amount that Blade Barrier absorbs by stacking large amounts of +power and willpower.

 

The bad news is that +Power is what I would consider a tier 5 Augmentation (+Defense>+Accuracy (to 100%)>+Shield>+Absorbtion>+Power). Willpower is not even a stat I would ever even bother with since it would remove a piece of +Strength equipment at a minimum.

 

I will be adding this to the front page.

 

I don't think it will change anyone's mind. People either think that the Hybrid build improves performance or hinders defense.

 

The fact that depending on your armor levels close to 50% (end game) of the benefit to a blade barrier proc would be what I like to call over healing makes me dislike the skill even more than I did before.

 

While others would still see that even at 50% it's damage you aren't actually taking.

 

It is just my thoughts, but IMHO - Unremitting+Effluence > Blade Barrier

 

Thanks for everyone's continued thoughts