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The Secret to Guardian Tanking


seraphimm

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Still no changes to our tree or abilities and the 10+ patches applied have been largely redundant with several duplicate attempts to fix the same thing. The small patches that don't seem to actually be moving in the direction of improving actual game play or cinematic / shadow improvements make me wonder when the first actual fixes will be coming.

 

As I don't visit game forums much I haven't been on to keep the post fresh (or even read the posted replies).

 

I am surprised this post is still stickied and have asked it be pulled down, at least until there are some meaningful patches that are aimed towards game/cinematic fixes.

 

This space is reserved until then.

Edited by seraphimm
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Hello to you again! And thank you for restarting this debate. To be honest though this may be a new build and if it is, I want to see how blade barrier holds up before running any kind of numbers again. I also want to see first hand how hard I'm being hit.

 

Other than that, from what numbers I have run, this is theoretically viable, and it does improve the harder you are hit. Somewhere between getting hit for 2 and 3K a pop, Blade Barrier loses it's effectiveness to this trick. And if he says this trick is viable, as he had done it in beta, I'll take his word for it.

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Hello to you again! And thank you for restarting this debate. To be honest though this may be a new build and if it is, I want to see how blade barrier holds up before running any kind of numbers again. I also want to see first hand how hard I'm being hit.

 

Other than that, from what numbers I have run, this is theoretically viable, and it does improve the harder you are hit. Somewhere between getting hit for 2 and 3K a pop, Blade Barrier loses it's effectiveness to this trick. And if he says this trick is viable, as he had done it in beta, I'll take his word for it.

 

If they improved Blade Barrier. That would be nice. I also wish that Protector and Unremitting got bumped over to the Def tree...

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I wish BW would hear the message and put all awesome tanking talents in the Defense tree, because it is, you know, a *tank* tree. Talents like Unremitting and Protector look rather awkward in a DPS tree, if you ask me.

 

I personally prefer it that we have more options on how to succeed at our jobs. Having to give up the top tiers of defense to get unremitting is a nice balancing game that will really give those tanks, who work at figuring the game out, a chance to shine.

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I personally prefer it that we have more options on how to succeed at our jobs. Having to give up the top tiers of defense to get unremitting is a nice balancing game that will really give those tanks, who work at figuring the game out, a chance to shine.

 

While I agree about options, I'd still rather have Protector as a mid-tier Defense talent. It just doesn't make sense as a high-tier DPS talent.

 

And I'd rather have one strong tank tree than two half-arsed ones. I really like the Vanguard\PT talent layouts so far.

Edited by Helig
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While I agree about options, I'd still rather have Protector as a mid-tier Defense talent. It just doesn't make sense as a high-tier DPS talent.

 

And I'd rather have one strong tank tree than two half-arsed ones. I really like the Vanguard\PT talent layouts so far.

 

 

 

I think it was done intentionally to allow those that prefer to DPS (not main tank) to be able to do that without a defense investment, but still be able to off-tank.

 

There are some flashpoints where two tanks are nice.

 

Issue was some of the off-tank abilities are nicer than those in the defense tree.. though if you think far enough to get both things really get easy.

Edited by seraphimm
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I wish BW would hear the message and put all awesome tanking talents in the Defense tree, because it is, you know, a *tank* tree. Talents like Unremitting and Protector look rather awkward in a DPS tree, if you ask me.

 

I don't agree. I think they are fine where they are. The problem that is highlighted by hybrid builds like this is that the Defense tree has some glaring weaknesses. Blade Barrier needs to be more effective. Courage, as Seraphimm points out, just doesn't add up. Force Clap is lame. Guardian Slash is too weak. Hilt Strike can't get used enough to be really helpful.

 

So what needs to happen is the top of the Defense tree needs to be corrected, not kneecapping the Vigilance tree (which ought to have some survivability traits, just like it does).

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I like that I can instantly determine how useful or useless a thread is by how quickly the OP falls back on what he played in other MMOs as some verification that he knows what he's talking about.

 

Saves me the time of reading long posts that will either be wrong, or cut and pastes from other beta threads (which this one basically is).

Edited by Drakks
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I don't agree. I think they are fine where they are. The problem that is highlighted by hybrid builds like this is that the Defense tree has some glaring weaknesses. Blade Barrier needs to be more effective. Courage, as Seraphimm points out, just doesn't add up. Force Clap is lame. Guardian Slash is too weak. Hilt Strike can't get used enough to be really helpful.

 

So what needs to happen is the top of the Defense tree needs to be corrected, not kneecapping the Vigilance tree (which ought to have some survivability traits, just like it does).

 

I definitely agree that Defense needs stronger top-tier talents. I also want to add that some mid- and top-tier talents (especially the Focus-saving ones\damage-enhancing) could easily be folded together to unbloat the tree a little.

Edited by Helig
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I like that I can instantly determine how useful or useless a thread is by how quickly the OP falls back on what he played in other MMOs as some verification that he knows what he's talking about.

 

Saves me the time of reading long posts that will either be wrong, or cut and pastes from other beta threads (which this one basically is).

 

Beta forums had a lot of this information, though I was involved in a lot of those discussions too.

 

Beta Guardian 50 was the key to this post, the other games indicate prior tanking experience. Regardless of the taboo of talking about other games, there are no absolutes. Every game has some commonalities to every other game.

Edited by seraphimm
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I like that I can instantly determine how useful or useless a thread is by how quickly the OP falls back on what he played in other MMOs as some verification that he knows what he's talking about.

 

Saves me the time of reading long posts that will either be wrong, or cut and pastes from other beta threads (which this one basically is).

 

So how many raid bosses have you killed in TOR? Oh yea..... right. Well how much did you play tanks in other games or high end bosses did you kill? Oh yea... right again.... equally nothing eh. So the only thing I can tell from your post is your opinion is even more worthless than the OP... but you posted nonetheless.

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You're oddly want some validation for your time in MMOs, so you list it out like some badge. If you're right, you're right regardless of having played a feral druid. End of story.

 

Every game has some commonalities to every other game.

 

Games have commonalties, yes. Shall we look at them?

 

1. They are games.

2. They have coding.

3. They is the concept of aggro, aggro range, hate/threat, and hate/threat ranking and generation.

4. You have a resource by which you generate the above that needs some level of management, and makes ability prioritization/ranking valuable.

 

Done.

 

Now, for a real discussion where you want to toss around math you're missing actual stat values. Stat weighting is the meat of any nuts and bolts discussion because you cannot know the mathimatically valuable choices without an value-based assignment -- and you cannot have stat weighting yet because there was no combat logging by which to pull and parse raw data. Sans this, these threads are just annoying circle jerky speculations disguised as fact, that are ENTIRELY premised on things like "I played a feral druid so I obviously understand an entirely different game that didn't have logging turned on".

 

Honestly, the opinions people toss out are great. The fact you have to append your gaming history to it, which you think turns opinion into fact, is unhelpful. It's the same mechanism that led to the last few weekend betas parroting "guardians are the weakest tanks!" with no actual data to substantiate the claim, by people who knew they were the weakest tank because they played WoW.

Edited by Drakks
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So how many raid bosses have you killed in TOR? Oh yea..... right. Well how much did you play tanks in other games or high end bosses did you kill? Oh yea... right again.... equally nothing eh. So the only thing I can tell from your post is your opinion is even more worthless than the OP... but you posted nonetheless.

 

I did all content available to my highest level in beta (46 guardian).

 

But, to a better point, I'm not offering up a "HOW TO PLAY A TANK BECAUSE I PLAYED WOW" guide, which was my actual gripe.

 

If my opinion is worthless, and you responded to me, what does that make you?

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