commendation vendors ruin economy/crafting

[Nirosu]

I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that the Game economy is f-cked and needs some sort of fix. Due to mission costs most if not all of the worthwhile crafted items have a minimum selling cost to recoup the cost. Assuming a player gets all mats themselves. The gear you can get from vendors is fine other than at max lvl. When crafting is outshined by vendor loot at max level there is a problem. Crafting being worse than pvp or raiding loot is fine and normal but being worse than commendation stuff is just wrong.

[Onomas]

During the levelling process I did not feel this way. As an artificer, I was able to make 3 of the 4 mods that go in my light saber, and 2 of 4 mods that go in all my other gear. Commendations filled in the holes left by my personal crafting.

 

And thats the entire reason why the economy is so messed up. No one has to rely on others for items. Thus breaks down the market and people arent making money so drop the skills.

 

No one should be self-sustained, nor just be able to run to a vendor for the "extras". That is not how you build an economy.

 

Commedations, pvp gear, and other things ruin crafting and the economy. I made a new alt and tested this out. From 1-36 i didnt buy a single thing from the market. This is sad. All my items came from pvp, commedations, and space. This is total BS for a new economy system.

[Terwilliger]

And thats the entire reason why the economy is so messed up. No one has to rely on others for items. Thus breaks down the market and people arent making money so drop the skills.

 

No one should be self-sustained, nor just be able to run to a vendor for the "extras". That is not how you build an economy.

 

Commedations, pvp gear, and other things ruin crafting and the economy. I made a new alt and tested this out. From 1-36 i didnt buy a single thing from the market. This is sad. All my items came from pvp, commedations, and space. This is total BS for a new economy system.

 

"I'm self-sufficient; this is an outrage?"

 

 

I no longer understand people.

[TheRealBoz]

So you'd be ok with needing to pay me before you could talk to your trainer? Of course not. Your interdependency argument has limits and you know it. You can't use it to justify adding any sort of dependency you want.

 

I currently have the option to quest/PVP/vendor for my gear OR I could buy it from you. It's fine. It's perfect. Options are great! You don't need to be the only source of gear for me. This is a game, not a job. I want to adventure for what gear I can, not go out and farm credits so I can give them to you as my only option to gear up.

 

You're using a selfish argument. Stop trying to lobby the government (Bioware) to MAKE me buy from you, and instead be a merchant like you're supposed to be. Figure out what people want to buy instead of basically making laws that they have to buy everything from you.

 

The selfish argument can easily be turned back at you. You want everything easily accessible, and you don't want to work for anything. You don't need to be the best geared player on the server. This is a game, not a job. I want to craft my gear and not be inferior to other players who just grabbed theirs off the commendations vendors, not to ditch my crew skills because they're pointless.

There is currently no choice between quest/PVP/vendor and crafter, because crafter items are a) inferior to said items and b) much more expensive to research and craft.

[ccpl_fisher]

Commendations are not ruining the economy, over inflated prices are.

 

It's expensive leveling up. Repairs, new skills, crew skills, etc...

 

Not to mention that I am not going to spend a ton of credits on a piece of gear that is going to get replaced in a level or two anyway. Maybe if crafters started putting items up at REALISTIC prices it would change. But as long as people are putting up sub-par items at 10,000 credits when I can go get a better piece for commendations, why would I spend credits?

 

Commendations make it easy to keep your gear current while saving your credits for other things that you really need.

 

So what you want is for crafters to put up items at a loss? Making a purple level 29 pair of boots cost me a minimum of 10k credits, if I am lucky and get the components I need through crew missions the first try. Since you can't choose what your mission is going to get in mats, you can get really boned by the RNG.

[Mark_D_Aardvark]

I've read most of the posts. I'm not going to complain just post what I would do for some solutions. Just opinion of course.

 

First, is a small but simple solution to improve crafting's usefulness. Allow repair by weapon and armor makers.

 

Okay basically the point is to make everything useful, tokens and crafting. The best way to do that is specializing the gear a little more. Maybe this will come later since the game is new. This may sound weird, but not knowing what the best gear in the game is, is the best way to go. Here me out. If you have gear with similar stats but one increases stun-time by X and another adds X damage to "X move." It might depend on your build or the way you play but even players of the same class might prefer different sets. Okay with that said, have different specialized armor for tokens, crafting, pve, and pvp. In that way they're all useful.

 

I think mods should be treated the same way and it is a little bit. Mods should be made also with different specialties than available from non-orange items. Mobs would be to combine more "specialty" stats for some more interesting combinations.

 

What I'm going to say next is not a fix really but I think its interesting. Orange gear from tokens should be for appearance customization. I'm not going to explain how it should work because it will be long, but basically should be able to buy orange gear sets of what npc's are wearing from the respective planet's tokens. That way if you if you want look like one of the green troopers form Taris at 50 or Senator from Curusant at 50, you can.

 

/end

[Onomas]

"I'm self-sufficient; this is an outrage?"

 

 

I no longer understand people.

 

For an economy structure and the market system, yes is a bad thing. For you, and others like you and myself its good for us. But not as a whole for the game. When people dont buy other peoples goods and can do everything themselves, it kills the market. So yes its a bad thing in general for the game.

 

And no one said it was an outrage, but anyone who has ever taken any type of economy classes in high school or college will know and understand this.

[mothear]

I actually have nothing against the current system. Yes I can take commendations and skimp on my companions gear but that is poor judgement if you are going to level through questing and not PvP/flashpoints (IMHO).

 

I'm an armstech merchant and every 3 levels I ensure my blasters have artifact barrels - so they are better than any mod I can buy. My companion, and my alts that use blasters are also happy, or will be, that every 8-10 levels I make sure I can re-engineer a range of blaster rifles that will last i.e. be better than, drops and mods for the next 6-8 levels. If someone is nice I'll also offer to make them one too.

 

Because I want to do a lot of questing inevitably I fall behind the curve. I have just arrived in Aalderan at 29 and the mods there are on par with stuff I re-engineered maybe 3-4 levels ago. What people are forgetting is that, in most other MMO's, crafting whilst levelling is mainly useless, you can't create anything 'decent' for your level because the mats required don't drop where you should be. This is certainly not the case in SWTOR.

 

Having said that I have not reached end game yet but if other popular MMO's are the guide a crafter can make entry level operations gear, and it has never been better than stuff that can be farmed by PvP. Whilst I may dislike the time sink of missions I actually think that crafting in this game is far superior to many others.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

[s_w_sanders]

i'm not at endgame so I don't know about the uselessness there yet. But I think commendation vendors do need to charge more. I bought a blaster today and still had enough commendations for another blaster. I've still got several missions to go on the planet, I shouldn't be able to completely gear out on commendations. Make the commendation goods more expensive.

[Unaki]

Simple solution is to make the modifications at the vendors higher than freaking 2 tokens. That is crazy cheap and rather poor in terms of balancing the market. Make them on par with the equipment price of 14 and bump the equipment to 24

[Terwilliger]

For an economy structure and the market system, yes is a bad thing. For you, and others like you and myself its good for us. But not as a whole for the game. When people dont buy other peoples goods and can do everything themselves, it kills the market. So yes its a bad thing in general for the game.

 

No it isn't. In the absence of a market, self-sufficient players will continue to be self-sufficient.

[Lady_Alyria]

My problem is if it's not on a commendation vendor and I can't craft it, I can't get it. Like Techblades, I spammed for HOURS for a level 17 Techblade for my pet and when I finally found someone that could make it he charged me 4k for a level 17 weapon because he knew it was him or more hours of spamming for a freakin Armstech.

[Caelrie]

Lady, you are now twisting *MY* words, and your recollection of SWG is vastly different to mine.

Perhaps you played much later than I did.

 

WoW did not run a commendation system based around questing for the ENTIRETY of it's game. At least not up till the point which I left. They ran a commendation/badge system for the current highest tier of gear/and dungeoning system. If you want me to really go into depth, I can, but you won't come out smelling of roses by the time I'm finished with you. Bioware changed the rules. If you can't see that, that's fine - I'll not think you any less ignorant than you are.

There's nothing new here. WoW has given badges for running dungeons for 3 expansions now, and they're used for far more than just the highest tier of gear. Dunno what game you were playing.

 

I never was a crafter in SWG - and I experienced the end game, and I enjoyed it - was never a money grind, and your viewpoint is screwed hardcore (But that's okay - everyone is allowed their perspective, no matter how ignorant they may be).

What endgame? It didn't have one until much, much later after it started to massively fail, and even then it was lackluster. It was always a money grind til then, because there WERE no loot drops. Everything was crafted. The best you could do was loot components to use in crafting.

[Caelrie]

Commedations, pvp gear, and other things ruin crafting and the economy. I made a new alt and tested this out. From 1-36 i didnt buy a single thing from the market. This is sad. All my items came from pvp, commedations, and space. This is total BS for a new economy system.

WoW has a booming economy with famous crafters, epic recipes, a thriving auction house with millions of items, etc. And you can make it to max level in that game without ever buying anything. So who cares?

 

It'll sort itself out at 50 when people actually have extra money. Right now every penny goes for training and speeders. Who has the dough to spare to give money to crafters for stuff you'll outlevel in 2 days anyway? That's not a failure of the crafting system. It's failure of your patience.

[Metalicks]

it took me roughly 4 days to get my guys orange gear armoured with Rank 23 armour mods + a rank 23 hilt for the lighsaber.

 

and crafting can only go to 22.

 

the only thing i cant buy with daily commendations are mods and enhancments. and i made my own enhancments. all i need now are some purple mods which i cant find a reasonable supply of what i want.

 

BTW can i get guardian mods above rank 13 because i cant find any at vendors and i checked the cybercraft and that doesnt do them at all.

[TheRealBoz]

WoW has a booming economy with famous crafters, epic recipes, a thriving auction house with millions of items, etc. And you can make it to max level in that game without ever buying anything. So who cares?

 

It'll sort itself out at 50 when people actually have extra money. Right now every penny goes for training and speeders. Who has the dough to spare to give money to crafters for stuff you'll outlevel in 2 days anyway? That's not a failure of the crafting system. It's failure of your patience.

 

So bottom line is, you have no idea what you're talking about. If you did, you'd know that level 50 is the LAST place the crafting system has any use.

[Grecanis]

I like the vendors just the way they are. ATM they allow me to upgrade a bit at a time as I can afford it (after crafting what I can.)

 

They could help crafting by providing a lot of different 'looking' item pieces. As it is there seems to be only a few skins that are used over and over again.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Grecanis

[TheRealBoz]

I like the vendors just the way they are. ATM they allow me to upgrade a bit at a time as I can afford it (after crafting what I can.)

 

They could help crafting by providing a lot of different 'looking' item pieces. As it is there seems to be only a few skins that are used over and over again.

 

How is giving vendors more aesthetic diversity helping crafters, again?

[Dorkfrey]

Perhaps you played much later than I did.

 

 

There's nothing new here. WoW has given badges for running dungeons for 3 expansions now, and they're used for far more than just the highest tier of gear. Dunno what game you were playing.

 

 

What endgame? It didn't have one until much, much later after it started to massively fail, and even then it was lackluster. It was always a money grind til then, because there WERE no loot drops. Everything was crafted. The best you could do was loot components to use in crafting.

 

No, I played from Launch, well, a week after - was slow getting my copy delivered. As I said - your perceptions are really out of joint.

 

No, WoW has used the badge system for the final pieces of content for the highest level of dungeon/raid gear for the past three expansions. You didn't actually tend to get any of the TBC gear through normal levelling, or LK gear through normal levelling - you not only had to run dungeons but had to run level capped/restricted Heroics to get them. At least until the "points" system came in. Even so - that STILL ONLY APPLIES TO DUNGEONING, not tripping up over a rock, or killing a random baddie you walk past. I know what game I was playing, and I know entirely how it worked in the past while I was playing it. You however, cannot grasp the differences which have revolutionised the way we appreciate the game. In this game - commendations form another currency based around our actions within the environment. Not JUST for one small part of the game. Everything we do, short of just mob grinding or crafting, generates commendations. This has not been done before. And certainly not in WoW. Except in your head. And you will not be able to realise the difference - as you've already displayed.

 

To be honest, I wrote a fairly long piece here, but deleted it, seeing as my perceptions of the game were totally different to yours. I had legendary and exceptional drops, and went hunting Krayt/Dath Witches/Imperials/etc. Some things were a grind, like grinding out Krayt for a Legendary set of scales to use as a component for armour. I never felt this oppressive crafting regime. I found most crafters were trying to undercut each other because there were plenty more crafters out there - who were springing up - making newer and better gear, for cheaper than the old.

 

I agree that the game was a crafter centric environment, I don't agree in the slightest with your belief that all crafters were trying to control the world though, and I cannot see it here either. But alas - that's a difference between perceptions one would guess. You feel that crafting is bad and wants to ruin your world, and crafters think, we'd like to be able to make and sell fun gear - that's desirable by the populace.

[Grecanis]

How is giving vendors more aesthetic diversity helping crafters, again?

 

By giving the schematics to "crafters"

[Sky_walkerPL]

They could help crafting by providing a lot of different 'looking' item pieces. As it is there seems to be only a few skins that are used over and over again.

This would certainly be a good beginning.

As long as these new skins won't be as huge fail as some of republican PvP gear is.

[_Flin_]

I like the vendors just the way they are. ATM they allow me to upgrade a bit at a time as I can afford it (after crafting what I can.)

 

The vendors are ok for the leveling process, since usually what they offer is a bit worse than what you need.

 

That completely changes on maxlevel, wenn the stuff from the daily Ilum quest vendors is way better than anything a crafter can make.

 

It should be the other way around. Or at least way more tedious than fully equipping a character in a few days with daily quests.

 

The way it is now, the whole (brilliant and fun) concept behind the orange items goes down the drain.

[Skuldar]

Commendations should be able to provide adequate but not exceptional gear for leveling, otherwise you penalize casual players too much, and there are too many of them to inconvenience that severely. Crafted gear should be slightly better than vendor/commendation gear and with more aesthetic variety, to give incentive to buyers with more discretionary funds. My preference would be to boost crafting rather than nerf any current commendation gear.

 

If you simply reduce the quality of commendation gear to force people to turn to crafted items to be able to level properly, you have to wonder where they're going to get the extra money to buy that gear. Surely, you don't want to force everyone to craft just to have access to funds. It is pretty clear Bioware wants crafting to be optional; the question is how useful they want it to be, or how useful they know how to get it to be.

[Darzil]

the question i keep coming back to, is how are the crafters items ever going to ever have any real/relevant value, when people can get geared out with orange gear, and keep that gear always relevant by using commendations vendors for the duration of the game?

 

My expectation is that it'll change as players start to spend their main's money on their alts, as so many other games. 50k at 50 sounds minor, but is massive at low levels, and unlike credits, commendations aren't tradeable. Also, at lower levels I find the commendations a little low. For example, I gained around 15 commendations from levelling from 21 to 25 on Nar Shaddaa, I can get 7 level 23 mods, or 1 armor or barrel plus level 23 mods, or 2 armor/barrels. I actually want a lot more than that, and at level 25! If I had money from a main (and weren't a crafter myself by inclination), I'd buy.

 

Sure, I've heard it said that gear is irrelevant levelling up. Having seen the difference between a character wearing level 19 greens and wearing level 22-25 blues, I'm not in agreement. Seemed to be the difference between Mortar Shot taking out a full group of monsters and doing 2/3 damage to me around level 25.

[Darzil]

Surely, you don't want to force everyone to craft just to have access to funds.

 

Wouldn't work anyway, as excepting missions (which reduce money in the economy) and slicing missions (just about), the rest of crafting just moves money around.