Let this be a lesson to every single games developer

[shinyelf]

Never make an MMO, you will undoubtedly anger someone, they will spread bad press, and in the end you will be remembered for a single failure(as percieved by some) instead of a million strokes of genius.

 

My point is that no MMO is never polished from start, and no matter how much we want the company to learn from the competitors, they will not have trade secrests or specific lines of code from those trying to work within the same market.

 

Personally i dont belive myself to be either Hater, Fanboy(ie. Fanboi) or troll, but i must say that i have never seen such an illoyal community, illoyal in the sense that people will not accept opnions differentiating from their own. The games has flaws, huge flaws, there seems to be some wierd perspective on what to correct first(perhaps the Taxi wave thing was easy to fix, but still), however i also understand that the game is massive, and that when you change one thing you might collapse the tower. However this thread is not meant to comment on the short comings or perfections of the game, but rather to comment on the commenters.

 

Personally i have been reading this forum quite a lot lately (cant really focus on importat things) and i see a lot of comparisons between this game and another giant MMO, World of Warcraft.

Now i dont think such a comparison is fair, not when you take the start of WoW, or the current state, Blizz has had many years to perfect their code, but BW might still have picked up on a few things regarding in game features, but etierh way the comparison isent valid(in my opinions, you may disagree if you want to). That was one of my major complaints about the forum, the comparison, the other is the name calling(back to third grade are we?)

It seems that you cannot defend the game without being a fanboy, and you cannot critize the game without being either a hater, a troll, or an agents paid by competing companies(i saw that on the forum, really strange). Personally in the ideal world anyone who ever wrote Fanboy or any variation there of should be permabanned, the same goes for anyone who labels others trolls or haters (start with me, ill buy a new copy if this is implemented) now, this is not going to happen, but i think that, we, the players (or people who likes to write on the forum until their subscription runs out) should try to improve.

 

That is all i had to say, sorry for the many points, but i did not really feel like making several threads regarding this

[ExpLiciTSainT]

I have, every single forum I have every been in, if it's not aligned to the communities view, you receive 20 posts that say the EXACT SAME THING.

 

I'm all for different views.

 

But to be honest, I don't feel the same way as 90% of the forum threads and rarely notice the issues at hand.

 

I just would like bug fixes done as quickly as possible, which they are doing. Then I am looking forward to our Guild Star Ships ... HECK YEA.

 

Too many cool things in this game to hate it. And yes, I am a Wow fan and Rift fan. I enjoy both games but I like WHAT this game is and where it can go.

Edited January 5, 2012 by ExpLiciTSainT

[Brool]

sorry, we live in the "I must have it now" generation. People dont have patience anymore, everythings got to be their way and right now!

 

I've come to terms with the fact that gaming communities are nothing more than a cespool for people with please me complex's and look how big my epeen is complex.

[Ganadorf]

sorry, we live in the "I must have it now" generation. People dont have patience anymore, everythings got to be their way and right now!

 

I've come to terms with the fact that gaming communities are nothing more than a cespool for people with please me complex's and look how big my epeen is complex.

 

Why shouldn't we get what we want, once we pay for it? It doesn't make sense to buy something, then wait for it

[racsofp]

I think the lesson is make the game you want, let the people who like it play it and enjoy it, let the rest go do something else.

[Qoojo]

For some strange reason, if you put MMO on it, people lose all perspective. It's a game. So if you don't like it or get bored, it's ok to move on and not play it. Also, it's ok to like another game, and shockingly, it's ok to even play another MMO.

[Kurnea]

Why shouldn't we get what we want, once we pay for it? It doesn't make sense to buy something, then wait for it

 

There is something to be said for checking if the product matches your expectations before buying it. Now while personally there are some changes I would like, none of them are game-breaking for me.

[Thaltom]

Why shouldn't we get what we want, once we pay for it? It doesn't make sense to buy something, then wait for it

 

I got what I want. I was in the beta and knew exactly what I should expect, then bought the game. Many, many other people posted their feelings and thoughts on the beta before the game was released and it was all made available to you.

 

Then I bought the retail copy of TOR.

 

I am enjoying my experience so far. I've been playing with both RL and in-game friends constantly.

 

If you want to admit it or not; Bioware is patching bugs and fixing things. I know you have already canceled and have predicted TOR going FTP within 6 months. I personally will continue to pay for this game, as is, and if Bioware improves upon it I will be all the happier.

[Asavar]

I'm enjoying this game, so uhhh..

 

Keep your theory to yourself.

[Wintermutes]

sorry, we live in the "I must have it now" generation. People dont have patience anymore, everythings got to be their way and right now!

 

People waited patiently for years for the game. Bioware/EA were impatient, and decided they needed to start making money now, rather than when the game was ready on its own merits. Or, maybe this is exactly the game they intended to make and release. Either way, they released it, charged money for it (quite a bit of money for the collector's edition, in fact). As soon as they decided the game was good enough to cash in on, it was good enough for critique.

 

Strange that this some how gets turned around to mean that customers are impatient.

 

It's true that making MMOs is hard, and pleasing every one is impossible, but that doesn't mean that paying customers are wrong to expect excellence or to complain about mediocrity. "Patience" does not mean "be a doormat so that some one else can make an easy buck."

Edited January 5, 2012 by Wintermutes

[SolGravion]

Why shouldn't we get what we want, once we pay for it? It doesn't make sense to buy something, then wait for it

 

Well you cant get an taco at mcdonalds, sorry dude you cant have it your way 100% of the time. Next time do some research.

[TheUnNamedHero]

Correction.

 

Don't do anything in life. Someone will always be angered by what you do.

[shinyelf]

Correction.

 

Don't do anything in life. Someone will always be angered by what you do.

 

Even though this seem to be sarcastic i agree, but the point of this thread is that if you make an MMO there will be someone who dislikes it, that may work out well enough in real life, but when you try to run a buisness having someone hate your product and by transitive property your company is a bad buisness decision

[Engeven]

This is a pretty accurate post

[Hakkology]

There is something i wish to understand here, is it wrong to complain and show what's wrong with our "product"? Should we just go like " I am paying a monthly fee but this is bugged/not working. Whatever, i can still play." ??

 

It's good to have an aggressive community, willing to change things, report bugs, whine and help the company make the game a better one. We shouldn't just accept things as they are we should work on changing them. Bioware can not listen to everyone in these forums but they can get an idea about what to do if we raise our voices and criticize the game in a constructive manner.

 

A little bit tension within the forums is to be expected and i believe it to be a good thing. The only thing we have to ensure is to have a mature language and discuss issues we have with our product and keep in touch with the developers. Can you imagine an online game without its community ? No.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Hakkology

[_Zefire_]

Never make an MMO, you will undoubtedly anger someone, they will spread bad press, and in the end you will be remembered for a single failure(as percieved by some) instead of a million strokes of genius.

 

My point is that no MMO is never polished from start, and no matter how much we want the company to learn from the competitors, they will not have trade secrests or specific lines of code from those trying to work within the same market.

 

Personally i dont belive myself to be either Hater, Fanboy(ie. Fanboi) or troll, but i must say that i have never seen such an illoyal community, illoyal in the sense that people will not accept opnions differentiating from their own. The games has flaws, huge flaws, there seems to be some wierd perspective on what to correct first(perhaps the Taxi wave thing was easy to fix, but still), however i also understand that the game is massive, and that when you change one thing you might collapse the tower. However this thread is not meant to comment on the short comings or perfections of the game, but rather to comment on the commenters.

 

Personally i have been reading this forum quite a lot lately (cant really focus on importat things) and i see a lot of comparisons between this game and another giant MMO, World of Warcraft.

Now i dont think such a comparison is fair, not when you take the start of WoW, or the current state, Blizz has had many years to perfect their code, but BW might still have picked up on a few things regarding in game features, but etierh way the comparison isent valid(in my opinions, you may disagree if you want to). That was one of my major complaints about the forum, the comparison, the other is the name calling(back to third grade are we?)

It seems that you cannot defend the game without being a fanboy, and you cannot critize the game without being either a hater, a troll, or an agents paid by competing companies(i saw that on the forum, really strange). Personally in the ideal world anyone who ever wrote Fanboy or any variation there of should be permabanned, the same goes for anyone who labels others trolls or haters (start with me, ill buy a new copy if this is implemented) now, this is not going to happen, but i think that, we, the players (or people who likes to write on the forum until their subscription runs out) should try to improve.

 

That is all i had to say, sorry for the many points, but i did not really feel like making several threads regarding this

 

 

I have to say that games pop out like crazy in the gaming industry.Lets say swtor manages to fix most of the crucial bugs in three months.By that time diablo 3,tera,gw 2 and even firefall and secret world will be out.I dont think people are going to play swtor after all these releases simply because the game had some very strong fun breakers eg fps which are the worst ive seen in my life and many many more.

I personaly will be playing diablo 3 because it will be free to play and i bet it will not have all this mess swtor has.

 

For the time im not enjoying swtor becaus there are many things that annoy me with skills recast,skill delays,skills that are not working at special circumstances etc.All these are game breakers for me cause i cant have a fun combat and play it as it should.

So name me one reason for keep paying for a game that i dont have 70 % satisfaction.

[ExiledOne]

What saddens me most is I cannot figure if the "Don't complain, just be unhappy, sit there and take it, don't complain, don't complain, don't complain!" attitude started from gaming and moved onto society as a whole thus the issues we have now, or was it the reverse?

 

You know what not voicing dissent and disapproval gets you, NOTHING, nothing changes, nothing gets fixed, no action is taken, you will STILL be unhappy and then you can only blame yourself for not speaking up, playing the "doormat" as it were.

 

 

If I'm dissatisfied with something and yet like enough of it, I'm going to at least let the people in charge know what I'm dissatisfied with, it's how you make better products.

[JonnySiniwali]

Why shouldn't we get what we want, once we pay for it? It doesn't make sense to buy something, then wait for it

 

Then why did you start playing an mmo at launch? Durp!

[rylixav]

sorry, we live in the "I must have it now" generation. People dont have patience anymore, everythings got to be their way and right now!

 

I've come to terms with the fact that gaming communities are nothing more than a cespool for people with please me complex's

 

Yeah those are called customers. There's quite a lot of them, and they're not all young.

 

I just have to ask you one simple question. Have you ever worked retail? Because you must have a very sheltered life if you think old people can't be demanding, selfish, and irrational. I've seen two 50+ year old women try to practically murder each other over a half price wedding dress.

Edited January 6, 2012 by rylixav

[shinyelf]

There is something i wish to understand here, is it wrong to complain and show what's wrong with our "product"? Should we just go like " I am paying a monthly fee but this is bugged/not working. Whatever, i can still play." ??

 

It's good to have an aggressive community, willing to change things, report bugs, whine and help the company make the game a better one. We shouldn't just accept things as they are we should work on changing them. Bioware can not listen to everyone in these forums but they can get an idea about what to do if we raise our voices and criticize the game in a constructive manner.

 

A little bit tension within the forums is to be expected and i believe it to be a good thing. The only thing we have to ensure is to have a mature language and discuss issues we have with our product and keep in touch with the developers. Can you imagine an online game without its community ? No.

 

i dont think you should complain, but i do however think one should always be ready to present constructive criticism, but this should be done in an orderly manner with a respect for others.

Come to think of it the industry(and TOR) could both make it easier. Make a form or something, instead of forcing people to post the excat same complaint a million times with a different wording, something that is in no way positive, personally i belive that numbers are more important than words, and that we should focus on gathering opinions without making the data unreadable

[Vinushka]

It's not fair to compare it to WoW in its current state, no. Or is it? Clearly many MMOs that come out now, even the Korean ones, copy aspects of WoW. This one is no exception. Yet they fail to copy all the things that made it good, despite spending way more money on it than Blizzard did on their product originally. Why is that? Because there's fools behind the wheel of the project that need to be canned and replaced immediately aka: the remnants of Mythic, and that James running the project. They'll never admit it, but it's more than likely that they're to blame.

 

 

This game feels a lot like Star Trek Online did in the first month of release. Even that game wasn't as broken as this mechanically or as sluggish of a combat system, but it was totally imbalanced in PVP, and lacking in content. It used the City of Heroes engine, which let's be honest, despite being old as hell still looks way better than this Hero Engine garbage, but we all know what happened to that game, and DC Universe Online, and many other games before them. I predict this game is headed in the same direction. 6 months, 250K subscribers or less. Servers being shutdown and merged to save money due to population dwindling on the majority of each individual server besides the ones housing the largest guilds. I'd ordinarily have high hopes, but the Engine is so terrible, it'd be a coding nightmare to repair all the problems. They're probably realizing now how big a mistake it was to let a no-name company develope their engine when they could've used something far more optimized for modern tech and easier to use such as the Crytek 3 engine.

 

 

That's just my belief though. Take it with a grain of salt like everything else. I'm starting to believe the Star Wars IP is just cursed as a whole when it comes to putting it in MMO form. People should just stop trying.

 

Oh yeah. I had to edit this post to add this hilarious quote. You guys might get a kick out of it if you haven't read it already. I remember reading up on the Hero Engine before I got into early access. It said something along the lines of "The Hero Engine is capable of supporting up to 100,000 players in a SINGLE ZONE." As I read it, I could just picture George Takei doing his "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW" from the TV commercials Rofl. Then you get to the Imperial fleet with 180-200+ people, and it's like "........"

Edited January 8, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[Stoopi]

I can't be bothered to read all the replies so apologies if people have said so.

 

But what are the issues you have with the game people keep saying theirs flaws but not what they are if you voice them it may help bioware to sort them out, i know next to nothing about computers but i imagine even changing the colour of a persons eyes in game is a long and painstaking buiness.

 

Instead of whinging how about some constructive criticsm, i'm only lvl 18 so feel i can't comment but to be honest my complaints are based on the fact that i'm lazy and don't want to have to walk back to the quest giver.

[Gerandar]

what stroke of genius? oh I don't have to read my quests anymore~ I guess that is a QoL improvement but not worth the frame rate issues and ability delay

[Annedromeda]

What saddens me most is I cannot figure if the "Don't complain, just be unhappy, sit there and take it, don't complain, don't complain, don't complain!" attitude started from gaming and moved onto society as a whole thus the issues we have now, or was it the reverse?

 

You know what not voicing dissent and disapproval gets you, NOTHING, nothing changes, nothing gets fixed, no action is taken, you will STILL be unhappy and then you can only blame yourself for not speaking up, playing the "doormat" as it were.

 

 

If I'm dissatisfied with something and yet like enough of it, I'm going to at least let the people in charge know what I'm dissatisfied with, it's how you make better products.

 

I agree with you. HOWEVER -

 

I think we need to pick our battles more wisely. Instead of moaning about things like downtime, we should be happy they are actually trying to fix issues. They are listening to us.

 

I think what most people fail to realise is that, well, you can catch more bees wih honey. Getting emotionally carried away and then trying to fight your cause could spell doom faster than presenting ourselves as responsible, mature, paying customers. By all means - speak up, have our say, but I think a lot of people on the forums could use a reality check, and perhaps a lesson in civilty/diplomacy.

[Umbral]

I think the lesson is make the game you want, let the people who like it play it and enjoy it, let the rest go do something else.

Well then that lesson needs to be put into practice by tiny development houses that build tiny mmos.

 

You don't spend 100's of millions of dollars and then "make the game you want". If you're spending that kind of money, then a bit of that money better get spent on finding out what everyone else wants, and trying to get as much of what everyone else wants into your game.

 

It's no big "whaaa?" when it comes to what Blizz did (as a perfect example of that). Like it or hate it, they spent a LOT on that game, including the money spent on doing their homework so that they could cherry pick the features from other games that players clearly liked. Then they didn't get hung up on some foolish "vision of our game" mantra, and found a way to make those features work in their game.

 

Bioware and EA stepped up to the plate with a swagger, but then have since proceeded to do harm to themselves by standing too close to the plate (ala releasing with too many bugs still in the game, and not realizing the numbers of players that can burn through leveling content very quickly, and what noise they will make when there's nothing satisfying to do when they get there), and dropping the bat on their toes (ala because of some skewed sense of "sticking to our game", telling players that popular features that are desired won't be in SWTOR anytime soon).

Edited January 6, 2012 by Umbral