This is a pretty accurate post

I disagree imo. This forums just shows how great bioware's policies are. Everyone can state their opinions (Even if there are a lot of IDIOTS) And bioware tries to respect everyone equally even if they are idiots. That just makes me respect bioware. In rift forums, if you write anything which may make people think that rift is not an amazing game, if you trashtalk about rift in any way, they would ban you. simple as that. It just made me mad and wonder how people can even buy their game. I'm sure these trashtalk topics will eventually be gone. This is just the first week of the game and I really believe majority of subscribed people are enjoying the game. Most of the idiot wow fanboys just do everything they can to protect their own game's pride, trying to prove that their game is better. (Dont get me wrong I love WoW, I gave too much for wow and I believe endgame content of wow is simply better but I just can't stand meaningless trashtalk about swtor since this game is just amazing)

What if the boss doesn't die and your raid dies? Then what? clearly your raid dps is not where it should be. But why? You have 5 dps in your raid. surely not all of them sucks. who is causing your raid dps to be this pathetic to prevent you killing the boss. My guess: YOU! Yes you! the one who doesnt care about any dps outputs, one who doesnt try to do whatever you can to play the game as good as possible. But in reality, no one can point it out. No one will ever know that your dps is pathetic and you alone are wasting 10 people's precious hours of game times. Congratulations. You have a perfect game for your own pathetic needs right now. But dont get so happy. Developers are not stupid enough to think that ignorance is bliss. They are not STUPID enough to think that world will be a better place without logs. Combat log will be implemented sooner or later. Then you will have to find yourself another failgame which allows you to watch TV while raiding for endgame content.

But I actually don't think bioware can do anything about it at this point. Its a bit too late for that since the problem is actually at the implementation of the code (not a lag or fps issue etc) The whole game is based on it. As a computer engineer, I think you shouldn't keep your hopes up about bioware doing something about this. I've never seen a game which actually did something about this issue (And its way too common)

lol just lol epic reply is epic

This is an amazing post, I was expecting a hate post but this post is pretty good and constructive. It's already too damn difficult to explain what this is, I think majority of people will not understand what exactly OP means but as a gamer who played most of the MMOs, I totally get it and I couldn't have explained it any better. It's a FEELING which prevents me commit too much to any other game than wow. WoW is awesome about this. this feeling will be less disturbing as we get used to gameplay by playing a lot (again speaking with my MMO experience) however at the end of the day we will realize wow just feels more right. But I will try not to quit swtor because of this since this is an amazing game and I will try to get used to it as much as I can.

Comparing Vanilla WoW with release of SWTOR would be the most stupid thing ever. Wow was 10 years ago SWTOR HAS the 10 years of knowledge which wow gained by its innovation and experience. SWTOR knows what wow has and should be able to implement any good thing wow already has (even better than wow if it wants to compete with it). comparing to 2002 wow is just pathetic. However swtor may choose NOT to implement some things such as LFG tool. I personally think LFG is an amazing tool which awesome in every way but if bioware thinks that "We dont think LFG is good to have, its a bad thing, it takes away social bla bla blas and blablabla." I totally respect that. I liked this game so much that I respect some of biowares opinions about it. But it definitly is not acceptable to say that swtor is better than wow simply because swtor's launch > vanilla's launch. If swtor wasnt better than wow vanilla, this game would be a huge failure already

Anyways I'm loving this game. Questing and leveling part is simply much better than any other MMO thats for sure. And I'm suggesting it to ALL my gamer friends. But im counting on this combat log release for it. If combat log gets implemented, it will ALLOW bioware to develop fun, creative, enjoyable encounters. So combat log itself is not enough for good raids but without combat log, bioware HAS TO implement boring tank and spank (maybe occasionally run out of fire) bosses for end game content because without log, any additional combat mechanic will be a HUGE PAIN for endgame players since they wont be able to analyze the combat they wiped to, they won't know what they did wrong, what they should have done etc. Even something simple as putting an enrage timer will get people frustrated. Even guildies who have been playing with you for 2 months, will never know that your dps sucks and you are the reason they are failing to satisfy dps requirements of the enrage timer. Raid leader wouldnt even know who to replace, hell it may be the raid leader who is underperforming. It really is not a debatable statement that combat log is required for a healty endgame content. The only debatable thing is whether you want a healty endgame content, or a faceroll tank and spank randomness of "25 people doing whatever they want to kill the boss" content. TL;DR: combat log is the first step to design good endgame content. Without logs, there couldn't be a decent raiding environment.

Forum bug: double post. I'm really sorry about this

Bad player spotted Anyways we do work hard to achieve something in this game (and lets face it, if playing good wasn't required, then it wouldn't be a succesful game would it?) And we expect the same from other players. why? because if we can't kill the boss because of some baaaad player, we would be wasting our times trying to boost that player. And a world without a log, would allow those bad players be bad and we can know nothing about it. To be depressed over a kid who trashtalks decent players simply because he outplayed you, is in your hands. Play with someone else. I personally don't mind if someone is performing with minimum requirements of a fight, but I can NOT stand morons with the best gear in game, do the worst dps in game and still claiming that they are playing well (hence, doesnt like advices) and then waste my 2 hours wiping for a simple raid boss. if those morons clasify me as a kid, then fu ck them. world would be a better place without them anyways.

the point is, without a combat log, there wont be any satisfying end-game raiding, there will only be tank and spank bosses with no dps requirements. And this game will stay a singleplayer questing game (a good one imo) and most of the end game seekers will go back to wow unfortunately. by satisfying i mean = bosses are not free kills. they require some hard work, teamplay to kill. But if they require hard-work, then underperforming teams should not be able to kill these bosses. and it is pretty easy for a guild to have several underperforming members + some good members. but then the guildleader will have absolutely nothing to do about these members since he wont know who they are. He will just know that, the raiding team as a whole is a failure but without combatlog, he can't know who is bringing them down, who to replace etc. There are some idiots who are saying nothing but "who cares about combat log as long as the boss dies" and my answer to this idiot is: "no one" but what happens if the boss doesnt die? wont we need logs to see why the boss didn't die? Ofc combat log is not needed if the boss doesn't require players to actually work for the kill. If it's okay for 5/15 dpses just go afk during the fight, and still they can kill the boss, then I'm pretty sure this game will be a failure

Without damage meters there can not be end game raiding thats pretty obvious even in some other games which doesn't support addons, there are combat logs and people are using additional software to parse this log (it may be illegal). But without combat log, you can NOT in any way tell that one person doesn't do enough damage to the boss. If raid dps is not enough, if you need more dps for a fight, then raid leader can NOT know who needs to be replaced. Without addons perfect, awesome player who uses his character to its limits intelligently, will fail with a 8 year old kid who smashes buttons to play the game. And no one will ever know the difference between these players. And no I don't want to play with an 8 year old kid who smashes buttons to play the game in my party. No I don't want a moron who believes world is better when no one notices his awful dps and leeches good players. No I don't want to play with an idiot tank who just dies without popping his defensive abilities, blame healer for his death and then get away with it. That poor healer will be known as a bad healer by other party members since there is no way that others can see how much avoidable damage tank took. And I'm sure idiots who defend a game without damage meter will NOT want to play with me after reading this post. But we are gonna be forced to play together since I won't know why our dps isn't enough for the boss. I won't know why we can't kill the boss.. I'll just play blindly and the difference is, those idiots will enjoy the game since they wont feel frustrated and wiping for hours is actually fun for them.

Oh really? Cos last time I checked, having no dps meter addon will allow you to play much much worse without getting noticed. With no dps meter you can join a guild as a dps raid with them, and watch tv in the middle of boss fight and no one will notice I don't understand how people see "linking dmg meters" as an evil thing. They just reflect what just happened! They are completely objective and tells exactly how much you hit the boss. Rest is completely on players' hands. If they mock you cos your dps is low, then dont play with them (play with someone who is ok with carrying your pathetic dps) or play better. With my wow guild I really enjoy friendly dps competition with my guildmates and if you can not meet the dps requirement of a fight, then you should consider joining a more casual guild instead of whining on the forums "DAMAGE METERS SUCK!!!11!! REMOVE THEM!11!!" Hating damage meter is really pathetic. I hate everyone who hates damage meters! Its like being a scammer. If that person doesnt wanna play with you if your dps is low, then hiding your dps from him is NOT NOT NOT the solution to this. As for macros: I'm okay without macros, I don't use that much macros anyways but macro's are NOT tools that provides you "1 button rotation". In wow you can't use macro to simplify rotation.

Of course if doing dps is simply as easy as "use whichever ability comes off cooldown" then this game is not nearly as good as wow in which dpsing is really fun, each class has its own unique mechanic and unique way of dealing damage.

For a healer or a tank it might not be necessary to have any damage meter. (Though in wow I've seen many many healers who was just using the wrong spells, and we could only see it via combat log. I'm sure there will be less intelligent people who try to heal in this game too) But for a dps, it is absolutely necessary to have a combat log. Assume you have 15 dps in a raid setup. And your guild's dps is just not enough to kill a certain boss. What would you do as a raid leader? how would you know if someone is slacking? leeching others? how would you know who to replace? I certainly don't want to waste my time with "we are all brothers here! lets wipe here for hours together, I'm happy to boost you, you can leech me off as much as you want" attitude.