Abanoth Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The whole republic vs empire situation is totally laughable when you fight your own faction most of the time. Yeah...I really don't see why every MMO that comes out nowadays has to have the old Axis vs. Allies setup. Better to have people forming their own factions and fighting for in-game reason than to say, "allright, you chose side X. Now this is side Y. They are your mortal enemies just because they're side Y....HATE THEM:mad:." Edited January 17, 2012 by Abanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah...I really don't see why every MMO that comes out nowadays has to have the old Axis vs. Allies setup. Better to have people forming their own factions and fighting for in-game reason than to say, "allright, you chose side X. Now this is side Y. They are your mortal enemies just because they're side Y....HATE THEM:mad:." Agreed^ W/e happened to the journey and not the destination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordniah Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I actually think same faction pvp is a great idea. There is only one other thing they need to do, though: move republic players from low population republic servers onto other servers so that you get a few dual-faction severs where there is actual world pvp and such. The servers without repbulic can then be designated Imperial only servers. Oh, and they should also fix the gameplay issues with republic classes being weaker than their mirrors. Edited January 17, 2012 by lordniah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHeissi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Also please fix the counterpart inbalances, counterparts were supposed to be equivalent. I want to scream when I get interrupted while activating my "instant" cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDTC Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I actually unsubbed 4 days into the game due to the pvp lag, and said that. However if I had another opportunity I would state that the faction imbalance is perhaps *the* main reason. I can't believe how pig-headed BW are being over this. They will kill their own game when there are very simple fixes to the problem. why are you still posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 why are you still posting Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutassin Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) As a PvP player I am loving playing on the Republic side as it means we have a challenge! Yes most Republic players are casual PvPers and as such will lose against a Empire pre-made. I find the fact the odds are stacked against Republic to be the reason to play them. You actually have a challenge on your hands and a victory feels so sweet when you had to work double hard to achieve it. It seems most PvP players don't care about challenge and simply want to join a faction full of the best players and are happy to ride other players skill. They are then happy to have PvP gear rewards to show that they have achieved great heights. I find this mentality to be a terrible mentality. The rewards from winning PvP should be the victory itself. Any other rewards should just be vanity items like titles. If this was the case PvPers who only grind PvP to get the gear and claim they are good would disappear. Players would play for the sense of being challenged and winning. This would also make Republic the faction to play as they are the underdog. This approach would make the game more balanced too as at present players with no PvP gear cannot challenge a fully geared PvP player. This isn't balance. If there was no PvP gear in the game and rewards were things like titles instead, the same fight would end with the most skilled player winning, not the one who has been grinding the hardest and has the best gear. EDIT----------------- Thought it best to add how I started. I originally rolled Empire and played to lvl 14. After playing Huttball vs Empire 4 or 5 times in a row we thought something balance wise was up. At that point me and my friends realised how many players were rolling Empire and so did some quick checks. We created lvl 1's on most servers on both sides and ran into areas checking how many of what level were online. It became very clear that Empire was going to be hugely over populated and BG queues would be very long and likely mostly Huttball. We therefore rolled Republic and now feel I have made the right choice for me and my goals in playing and winning PvP and getting a sense of achievement for my wins. Edited January 17, 2012 by Arutassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumwun Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Speed up leveling and I will roll a trooper or a smuggler, but stepping over to the republic side isn't very tempting for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandoa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Speed up leveling and I will roll a trooper or a smuggler, but stepping over to the republic side isn't very tempting for me. Yes we undestand your point, and will become less tempting, for example you reach the fleet the first time to see 20 or 30 peeps there, the GTN totally empty. Wat you do next just turn around a leave. We reaaly need a miracle for a balance to apen Edited January 17, 2012 by Brandoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekreant Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And you got this "cold hard data" from where exactly? Anyone who looked at the guild numbers before release knew about the population imbalance. There are more Empire than Republic on just about every single server. You're wrong and you should stop. It's more than a little obvious to anyone who's spent any significant amount of time in the game. Get out of her with your fake "cold hard data" that you pulled out of your rear. On topic: One of my friends who turns into a complete and total tool when he plays MMORPGs switched sides to play Empire because "Empire wins more BGs, man". I saw a mistell from him while he was in a Warzone, he was browbeating his teammates, and it not only made my stomach turn but also made me question my friendship with him and I've known him for almost 2 decades. And to me, that sums up the typical Vampire, Emo, WoW-head, Empire player. He fits the stereotype to a T. All the angsty uppity fools that take games way too seriously and used WoW's PvP to define who they are as people seem to flock to the Empire. Don't get me wrong, not every Empire player is like that. I'm just saying that those types of players will not only flock to the "evil" side, but they'll also jump ship to which ever faction they perceive to have any advantage in PvP. And while it is mostly the players faults for dog-piling onto one faction, the guys at Bioware have to take responsibility for the imbalances in not just the aesthetic appearances of the factions, but the inequality of the animations for the mirror classes that make a big difference in PvP. You are the reason factions are imbalanced. Not to mention you attack anyone ho takes the game seriously as if what you accomplish in a day is just so much more important than anyone else. I mostly see adults on empire side, and older star wars fanboys on republic side. Also I'm on Jung Ma and I play A LOT. There are easily half as many republic players than Empire. In about 5hours of pvp as last night I saw Republic 3 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baudrillard Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Well it's certainly not that. Besides "Good is dumb." However I would like to point out that your narrow minded assumptions SCREAM your age and level of understanding. Just FYI for any future decisions you make in general that deal with real life scenarios. You won't do very well if you're not already. No my dear. Good is strong. Cause in life it takes strength to be good, to take it hard from all the egomanes and being able to smile at them together with God. I had so much patience and good will with egoists, and today I am looking at my life and the life of people I met in the last 15 years, and I can tell you: it's hard to be good, it needs strength, but it's so rewarding (especially if you dont seek for certain kind of rewards!). And you know of course, that having to overcome difficulties is good for your intelligence, dont you? Edited January 17, 2012 by Baudrillard typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassynova Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You're right. Being good is way, way harder than being bad or evil in game or in RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-Wan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I never played WoW so maybe it is obvious if you played that game for years but I am wondering what the advantage is to cutting the population in half through keeping the factions apart? For instance I cant mail a republic player anything, talk to them in chat, or group with them for instances. I have limited ways to sell them things which seems odd. Just wondering how this is helpful. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malignment Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Simple fix is that they give lots of candy to the under dogs. Outrageous buffs that make it appealing to get roflstomped 10-1 in ilum. And yes, If I measured server balance purely by how many republics and imps are standing in ilum swapping objectives, then my server is 10-1. Every time I've been in ilum there are throngs of imperials standing there and 3-4 republics. Edited January 17, 2012 by malignment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Simple fix is that they give lots of candy to the under dogs. Outrageous buffs that make it appealing to get roflstomped 10-1 in ilum. And yes, If I measured server balance purely by howard republics and imps are standing in ilum swapping objectives, then my server is 10-1. Every time I've been in ilum there are throngs of imperials standing there and 3-4 republics. Exactly, that ratio is a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discosoc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 WoW used to have really bad population balance, heavily favoring Alliance by 3:1 or more. It took giving Horde the Blood Elves for things to smooth out. Don't underestimate the number of players who choose a faction based on aesthetics. The Republic has a lot of image problems, namely the fact that they all kind of come off as being goofy and not very serious. My first character was a trooper. I liked the back story being part of some crazy awesome spec ops unit full of no-nonsense hard asses. Except that my voice sounded like an emotional Patrick Walburton. Funny, but not at all fitting. Having the bounty hunter voice as a trooper would help a ton. Anyway, probably the best thing Bioware could do for population balance, until the first expansion, is to allow selective server transfers. Republic players on servers A, B, and C can transfer to server D for free. Empire players on servers X and Y can transfer to server Z for free. Something like that. Basically, you would help with server populations overall, in terms of faction balance, and totals. Down the road, they can address the problems in other ways, primarily by creating more interesting content for Republic players, such as a cool species or different voice over options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades-LotD Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There is no galaxy to conquer, no worlds to truly fight over, and no incentive for open world PVP even on the PVP servers. Here's a good chart of game progression by faction. I could care less about Republic as long as there are enough same faction Warzones, no third faction, and no RVR system. Besides if you are a Star Wars lore junkie you'd know that the Sith spent as much time fighting themselves as they did the Republic, and that is why they always self destructed their rule of the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyway, probably the best thing Bioware could do for population balance, until the first expansion, is to allow selective server transfers. Republic players on servers A, B, and C can transfer to server D for free. Empire players on servers X and Y can transfer to server Z for free. Something like that. Basically, you would help with server populations overall, in terms of faction balance, and totals. Down the road, they can address the problems in other ways, primarily by creating more interesting content for Republic players, such as a cool species or different voice over options. Pretty much. at this point there are too many servers and too high an imbalance to actually fix properly. They arent going to make half the sith reroll, or pull hundreds of thousands of new players who all roll republic out of thin air. Best thing to do now is let republic server transfer, so they can all go to a few servers, and these will be the servers where republic characters can actually find groups. The other servers will just be 100% sith and they can play huttball 100% of the time instead of 90% of the time. No big difference anyway. The population imbalance problem is a PvE problem. On anything less than a 'heavy' population server there arent enough to do group qusets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tathir Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think the population gaps will level out over time as people play through the stories and settle into long term character choices. A lot of folks will wind up playing through a bunch of characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) There is no galaxy to conquer, no worlds to truly fight over, and no incentive for open world PVP even on the PVP servers. Here's a good chart of game progression by faction. I could care less about Republic as long as there are enough same faction Warzones, no third faction, and no RVR system. Besides if you are a Star Wars lore junkie you'd know that the Sith spent as much time fighting themselves as they did the Republic, and that is why they always self destructed their rule of the galaxy. This is not about Sith or PvP. This is about republics who cant do flashpoints because there are 30 total on the fleet. the odds I find someone to do a group 4, when taris has 20 people in teh zone and is large as texas is 0%. so naturally given this situation I will think, "boy this game sucks, no one plays it" and unsub, or "boy this side sucks!" and roll sith. in which case whats the point of them spending half their money on content no one is there to experience. Edited January 17, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulduet Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Reminds me of alliance vs horde. There will always be a problem and even with "warzones", and open world pvp zones, nagrand comes to mind, the problem drastically increases. In the end they have to put locks on the zones and only allow x amount of players in for a timed fight. Repeat that every 30-60 minutes. It's the only way to balance the faction imbalance. At that point it doesn't matter if the other faction got way more players. <edit> A solution is to skip the ridiculous lore when it comes to grouping for PvP/PvE. Just allow a merge of the factions, it would solve everything. Edited January 17, 2012 by hulduet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicuspid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Reminds me of alliance vs horde. There will always be a problem and even with "warzones", and open world pvp zones, nagrand comes to mind, the problem drastically increases. I repeat, this is not the same problem. Back in vanilla wow, sure we were outnumbered probably the same ratio by alliance. However we could get enough people together to DO everything. We could find groups for all the instances, we could raid, we could even hold our own in open world pvp until the zerg fully arrived. Right now theres like 7 people on voss. What am I supposed to do with that. There's not enough republic to even do the PvE, which is the main problem. Its like playing a MMO by yourself, you can't do anything. I don't care if there are 100 sith, or 200 sith, or 900 sith in the fleet. The problem is there are 20 republic. I'd play on a server with a 20:1 ratio if the 1 meant that there were 100 republic. At least then we can get stuff done except in open world PvP. Edited January 17, 2012 by bicuspid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoE_Viz Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You can tell Bioware really dropped the ball on faction imbalance when Empire outnumbers Republic EVEN ON PVE servers. I have checked a lot of PVE servers in the hopes of rolling an Empire char on a balanced server, but I couldn't find any. I check the Fleets on both sides and every single PVE server the Empire pop was easily 2 times the Republic pop. Even WoW at least was much more balanced where Alliance were a majority on PVE and Horde on PVP. Therefore implementing cross-realm BGs lowered queue times for everyone overall. It will be a disaster when Bioware tries to do the same with such lopsided populations. I noticed the exact same thing about the fleets when i quit my BH and made my knight. It just seems like the fleet was designed for Empire and then they just did a half-as.s re-skin for the Republic. The Republic fleet does look like a dirty slum area and the Empire fleet looks clean and very colorful especially in the area with the holo trees. Honestly don't know what the hell they were thinking when they made Jedi knight and Jedi consular armor. Wearing nothing but ugly brown gold and white with hobo rags hanging off your shoulders must be tough as a consular, or looking like a terrible 80s robot as a JK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theothersteve Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 One downside is that when you're in the minority on a PVP server, you're running into the other faction constantly, and just want to ignore it after a while. While the people on the other faction are reacting like they just found exotic delicious candy that can be opened with lightsabers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discosoc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I noticed the exact same thing about the fleets when i quit my BH and made my knight. It just seems like the fleet was designed for Empire and then they just did a half-as.s re-skin for the Republic. The Republic fleet does look like a dirty slum area and the Empire fleet looks clean and very colorful especially in the area with the holo trees. Honestly don't know what the hell they were thinking when they made Jedi knight and Jedi consular armor. Wearing nothing but ugly brown gold and white with hobo rags hanging off your shoulders must be tough as a consular, or looking like a terrible 80s robot as a JK. They upgrade from rags to this... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/pveconsulargear.jpg/ I'd rather have the rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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