The Expertise stat has to go...

[caultonpos]

People PvP for better PvP gear, if you are not grinding for something - to be rewarded and to make you stronger at PvP whats the point.

 

No incentives and people will get bored.

 

I'm not opposed to PvE gear being good enough to keep up with PvP - but being a pure PvPer should give you an edge in PvP.

[Treebyrn]

People PvP for better PvP gear, if you are not grinding for something - to be rewarded and to make you stronger at PvP whats the point.

 

No incentives and people will get bored.

 

I'm not opposed to PvE gear being good enough to keep up with PvP - but being a pure PvPer should give you an edge in PvP.

 

True people need incentives but those incentives do not need to be tied to something that is 100% needed to be competitive.

[CommandoPower]

People will no longer play PvE encounters if both gears are equal.

PvP gear can be soloed. PvE gear requires a group.

If they are equal, most will just pvp since it is easier and can be soloed.

No one will see the PvE zones and quests.

 

There are many more things that can go wrong with this but I really don't want to educate people. Go research it and stuff. But taking the pvp stat will never happen. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how hard you people cry.

 

 

 

People PvP for better PvP gear, if you are not grinding for something - to be rewarded and to make you stronger at PvP whats the point.

 

No incentives and people will get bored.

 

I'm not opposed to PvE gear being good enough to keep up with PvP - but being a pure PvPer should give you an edge in PvP.

 

If the only reason you play PVE is because of gear than you're just sad. You've obviously lost the point of playing video games in the first place.

 

 

WOW era MMORPG players just sadden me. Really really really sadden me. Yall obviously have ZERO idea of what a good/bad game is with that mantra. What happened to playing games because it was FUN!!?? Or do you have to be massively stronger than other people to have fun in your little ego-centric worlds?

 

 

I mean geez, look at City of Hero's. That game had very little end game and only just recently gained it. It's not only survived but thrived and is still going strong. It might not have WOW numbers to put forwards but since when has popularity meant something is good.

 

Digs out a pet rock. Ya, those were popular too. People paid money for rocks you could pick up off the ground. Countless singers, who can't sing OR perform, have been popular. Maybe you should jack out of the high school "POPULAR, IE MYSELF, IS EVERYTHING" mentality and, I dunno, judge something based on it's actual merits instead of a temporary empty ego boost?

[Sayoko]

I consider myself a PVE player, altho i do pvp alot aswell. Now if PvP gear would be better or at least equal to PvE gear, i would as a dedicated raider feel urged to farm this PvP gear to smoothen our raids.

Now everyone who ever did raid PvE content knows the incentive and fun does drop after your first clear of a raid location. What keeps you going is the chance to improve your character and your gear and ofc the fun that comes from playing with your friends and chattering with them on TS while raiding.

But if i could get the same gear from doing solo PvP, why would i clear a raid more than 2 or 3 times and organize a guild with active raiders, setup schedules discuss the fairest way to go about loot and raidspots ect.? I can just press "queue solo" and get the same gear faster since i will always get the gear that is for my class and not have some boss drop gear for another class 3 weeks in a row.

 

TLDR: Operations require alot more organization and teamplay than PvP to get what you want. So it would be more than unfair to grant PvP focused players the same quality of gear for less effort.

 

Therefore PvP stats or for all i care PvE special stats to differentiate the gear.

[CommandoPower]

I consider myself a PVE player, altho i do pvp alot aswell. Now if PvP gear would be better or at least equal to PvE gear, i would as a dedicated raider feel urged to farm this PvP gear to smoothen our raids.

Now everyone who ever did raid PvE content knows the incentive and fun does drop after your first clear of a raid location. What keeps you going is the chance to improve your character and your gear and ofc the fun that comes from playing with your friends and chattering with them on TS while raiding.

But if i could get the same gear from doing solo PvP, why would i clear a raid more than 2 or 3 times and organize a guild with active raiders, setup schedules discuss the fairest way to go about loot and raidspots ect.? I can just press "queue solo" and get the same gear faster since i will always get the gear that is for my class and not have some boss drop gear for another class 3 weeks in a row.

 

TLDR: Operations require alot more organization and teamplay than PvP to get what you want. So it would be more than unfair to grant PvP focused players the same quality of gear for less effort.

 

Therefore PvP stats or for all i care PvE special stats to differentiate the gear.

 

Not true, WZ are consistant and even if you fail you progress. Your far more likely to die, ALOT. Team play and organization will make you progress far faster as well.

 

The difference here is that raids are set up PVE style, which is either succeed or get nothing. There is no partial credit, there is no freebies for trying. It's also very linear in what and when you can do what. This is very simple why, it's not difficulty, it's simply dragging out how long it will take you to get those shinies.

 

 

 

In other words the only reason you get slower in PVE is that it is designed as a giant time sink. PVP is designed to be fun primarily and as a time sink only after that. THAT is your issue, nothing else. Not difficulty, not coordination.

[Thrones]

cause i really want to have some scrub pve player roflstomp me cause he has raid gear, while i who cannot raid is forced to raid for pvp.

No thanks.

[ChaoslegionX]

Stop complaining about expertise every mmo with pvp has this stat its just called diffrent things its so true pvp players can pvp get gear and not get rolled on my pve players with end game raid gear its not hard to figure out

[NessusFett]

Stop complaining about expertise every mmo with pvp has this stat its just called diffrent things its so true pvp players can pvp get gear and not get rolled on my pve players with end game raid gear its not hard to figure out

 

so its a balancer to even out pve and pvp gear...

 

 

so effectively it has the same effect as just giving everyone set base (per class) stats...

except it has the added issue of alienating people who are new to it or just dont have the time to grind both sides ( or any side for some)

[ColdSunHoth]

I support the 50 bracket and seperation. I also support removing expertise completely.

[ragemonkeyrage]

A pvp stat is a way of differenciating those who pve from those who pvp.

To avoid having hardcore pve'rs come to WZ's and smash the faces of those hardcore pvp'rs because pve gear is always better .

PVE stopped beeing better than pvp gear for pvp when these stats were introduced in to games and thank god they did.

 

?? why does there need to be a difference , pve gear is random u may never get that peice ur after cause its just luck at what drops , pvp gear is a set thing u just buy it . now i dont mind if the stats were balanced so that pvp gear was just as good at pve but all that realy needs doing in that situation is to have the required points to purchase scale to a sensible level , a new stat that reduces the damage of the already lesser geared player ( and that in most cases means less time played in pvp ) on serves to ruin the gameplay , if you get epic pvp gear that doenst have thsi stat u are still more powerful , u should still have more experience and should still win but they need to be able to look like they are doing something to you.

 

The pvp game types give massive advantage to survivability , huttball is one of the best to look at , the random games do not lvl out gear so that each side is even its purely random , i have seen full pvp kit merc heals walk the ball over not passing with 4 lesser geared players on them , just nothing they can do to stop them in time , all their cc's already get nerfed because the player just resists them after the first 2 so its down to dmg unless u have multiple big hitters u just cant stop them due to massive dmg reduction and heals buff , on top of that they have heavy armour and why do they need this ? The short answer is they dont.

 

If they were realy looking at WoW then they would see that with every new raid content ( best source of PvE gear ) a new season of PvP gear would be released. So a smart person would just release new PvP earned gear that doesnt need a stupid PvP god stat at the same time as they do PvE content patches.

 

Not rocket science just needs better dev management

[xanix]

should be the other way around , PVE set's should have expertise ( 10% bonus in damg\defense against NPC's ) ,and no expertise on any PVP set , problem solved...

[Aridoth]

Pvp stats don't have to be removed, but expertise in this one is too strong. It's entirely different than resilience in wow. Resilience makes you harder to kill, Expertise makes you both harder to kill and increases the damage you do. That turns it into a god stat. So a player with expertise against a player without it makes for no contest at all. Skill is completely taken out of the equation at that point. At least with resilience, the player with resilience still has an advantage to those without, but skill can overcome the difference between a raid geared player and a pvp geared player. The way expertise gear goes though, the only chance a raid geared player has against a pvp geared player is if the pvp geared player is afk. So expertise owns non-expertise every time no matter the skill.

 

So don't get rid of expertise, just balance it so newer skilled players with no expertise yet still have a chance to not be completely owned every time. That can no longer be called a "grind", thats just frustrating and really discourages players from continuing.

[Evilbrood]

Expertise is there to keep raiding pve gear out of WZ's. I enjoy it alot. Makes it so 28k HM tanks don't go into huttball games and dominate carrying the ball. I say they make mods/craftable pvp gear that are underpar of the first pvp teir. Would make sense and would make buff crafting professions. Just my 2 cents. Edited January 23, 2012 by Evilbrood

[Maintained]

Expertise is there to keep raiding pve gear out of WZ's. I enjoy it alot. Makes it so 28k HM tanks don't go into huttball games and dominate carrying the ball. I say they make mods/craftable pvp gear that are underpar of the first pvp teir. Would make sense and would make buff crafting professions. Just my 2 cents.

 

Agree. There should be a starter level 50 PvP BoE crafted set and all problems solved.

 

Raid gear in warzones ruined PvP in WoW/Rift for me. Having to grind WZs as a brand new 50 until you get a bit of expertise is a pain, but at least you can actually get the gear. Nothing is worse then getting rolled for a lack of gear and not being able to get anything close to that quality of equipment from PvP.

 

A crafted starter set is a much more elegant solution to the problem (imo a perceived problem; doesn't take long to get a few pieces of champion or centurion if you get unlucky) then to remove Expertise entirely, as that just makes PvPers have to raid to remain competitive.

 

That is of course unless they made Battlemaster the same item level as the top tier raid gear with the same PvE stats, but then there would be just as many compalining threads from PvErs then..

Edited January 23, 2012 by Maintained

[teyngodown]

Expertise is there to keep carebears out of warzones plain and simple. If you want to fight a scripted AI over and over to grind gear than more power to you, BUT it should not give you a HUGE advantage over those who dedicate to pvp.

 

Expertise allows dedicated pvpers to fight a balanced fight about SKILL not gear at endgame pvp. It also keeps the carebears from roflstomping every dedicated pvper by simply having superior gear.

 

IMO i think pvp armor should be better than pve armor in every way. There is no skill in memorizing a boss fight and doing it over....and over... and over... and over again to get 1337 gear so you can go pwnsauce another scripted boss over... and over... and over again. PVP battles are unpredictable. You can't memorize your enemy. You can attempt to predict what they're going to do, but in the end when fighting another team of real people you really can only guess not memorize your enemy.

 

For the people saying that it deters newbies from doing warzones, I say horse ****. If you do ONLY the ilum dailies/weeklies you can have 20 champ bags in 2 weeks without ever setting foot in a warzone. If you get in a pvp guild and practice with them after getting a decent set of champ/centurion gear from Ilum dailies then your bag count doubles with warzone win dailies/weeklies.

 

If you are to lazy to gear up at least a little bit BEFORE you jump right into 50 warzones then its your fault and you deserve to get tardspanked by the veterans.

[aleiro]

If they remove all expertise I will be happy, there are very good ideas in this post. Give me the same stats in pvp gear as u get from pve gear. Bolster PvE gear to hit harder on NPCs. Then we all have the same potential in pvp and ppl that want to raid can do so at 10% more damage. I already have a full set of champion gear and I will not miss expertise if they remove it and improve the stats on all pvp items. Then we keep our gear progression and fresh 50s are not at such high disadvantage. Another person said that we need more usable drops in pvp like cars, and other utility stuff that makes your game cooler, could also have modable gear sets, just as the ones you buy, only they can give valor rank reqs to it instead of social rank. A lot more can be done than just adding a new warzone.

[Radiozo]

I agree with this. Remove expertise and there is no need for a seperate lvl 50 bracket.

 

Expertise is the dumbest thing ever.

[Radiozo]

Expertise is there to keep carebears out of warzones plain and simple. If you want to fight a scripted AI over and over to grind gear than more power to you, BUT it should not give you a HUGE advantage over those who dedicate to pvp.

 

Expertise allows dedicated pvpers to fight a balanced fight about SKILL not gear at endgame pvp. It also keeps the carebears from roflstomping every dedicated pvper by simply having superior gear.

 

IMO i think pvp armor should be better than pve armor in every way. There is no skill in memorizing a boss fight and doing it over....and over... and over... and over again to get 1337 gear so you can go pwnsauce another scripted boss over... and over... and over again. PVP battles are unpredictable. You can't memorize your enemy. You can attempt to predict what they're going to do, but in the end when fighting another team of real people you really can only guess not memorize your enemy.

 

For the people saying that it deters newbies from doing warzones, I say horse ****. If you do ONLY the ilum dailies/weeklies you can have 20 champ bags in 2 weeks without ever setting foot in a warzone. If you get in a pvp guild and practice with them after getting a decent set of champ/centurion gear from Ilum dailies then your bag count doubles with warzone win dailies/weeklies.

 

If you are to lazy to gear up at least a little bit BEFORE you jump right into 50 warzones then its your fault and you deserve to get tardspanked by the veterans.

 

No I cant get 20+ bags a week. I can get 10 maximum and I cant get valor anymore.

As of the 1.1 patch there is zero warzones on standard/low servers.

[Aowar]

I agree with this. Remove expertise and there is no need for a seperate lvl 50 bracket.

 

Expertise is the dumbest thing ever.

 

 

 

Speaking of dumb. Removing expertise would be just that. It would make it so only the top raiders had the best pvp gear. I have a feeling the people crying about expertise are the pver's.

[teyngodown]

No I cant get 20+ bags a week. I can get 10 maximum and I cant get valor anymore.

As of the 1.1 patch there is zero warzones on standard/low servers.

 

Please read more carefully. I said illum dailies will give you 20 bags in TWO weeks without ever setting foot in a warzone.

 

I'm also on a low pop server so i know the pain of the lvl 50 warzone queue. To combat the boringness of lvl 50 pvp on my server a member of the largest republic pvp guild contacted me and we will be scheduling small scale skirmishes on illum and maybe tattooine. Not sure if this is a viable idea for you but you never know till you try.

[VeetorDaal]

HEY PVE PLAYERS! STOP ACTING LIKE EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU! Expertise stays or the PvP community leaves and that would hurt the game in the long run, PVE CONTENT INCLUDED!

[DuriZap]

Yup, out the window with it. It really isn't needed. Give PvP and Raid armor the same overall bonuses. And make it take about equal time to get it. Atm, the only purpose of expertise, seems to widen the strength gap between imp's and rep's. I do win a fair amount of games on rep side, but must admit that I very often run into very high geared imp's, with lack of the same on rep side. All in all, I claim that imp's are better geared than rep's on average. This game seems to have a problem rebalancing pvp. With current system, imbalanced faction will only generate even more imbalance. It's an unstoppable spiral cycle, unless BW steps in and starts to think a tad more about this issue.

[Eranus]

Expertise - can go that way ---->.

Let's face it, it does only 2 things:

1) Reduce the need for skill and makes it "hell" for new PvP players which we urgently need

2) Boost the healers to oblivion.

Now this is to those who haven't realised it yet. Expertise has the problem of boosting 3 (yes 3) stats.

A) Damage Done

B) Damage Reduction

C) HEALING DONE

 

Now the problem is that in theory A and B will always gain the net value of 0. If I dish out 10% more damage and player B takes 10% less damage - it is equal. Problem is that the healing tops out over that net value so in the end the only one who profits is a healer.

 

In my opinion the Expertise can be thrown out the window, the suggestion of giving "raiding" gear a stat that applies in raid instances is way smoother, seeing that Mr. random boss is not going to complain, while you can actually try to come up with nice gear combinations for PvP.

[thepilk]

The level 1-49 bracket's introduction resulted in warzones becoming fun and competitive and revitalized pvp for everyone i know...because it removed expertise from the equation.

 

The ironic thing is that if everyone has full battlemaster gear, its a wash and its just like no one has it (same damage and damage reduction boost) it shoudlnt exist, because all it does is gate people who dont have it.

 

Being level 50, but not battlemaster sucks... pvp simply isnt fun. you have to grind level after level of valor by loseing warzones over adn over, or by getting crushed on ilum over and over simply because the expertise stat makes certain players unbeatable just because they started the grind before you did. Im in that grind right now, and the result has not been that I keep pushing...Ive stopped pvping, spend less time in warzones and just move closer to retiring, just because pvp gear ruins any fun for pvp.

 

The CC/Stuns were already out of control, but now I get to deal with that on top of being at a damage reduction/damage output disadvantage from expertise...its easier to just not even bother. I really want to enjoy pvping but the valor grind to battlemaster level (and ensuing grind for battlemaster gear) simply isnt worth the effort..Id rather just stop going to ilum and not que warzones anymore. Hope all the battlemaster geared players enjoy huttballing each other for the rest of TOR's lifespan, because thats what PVP will become at this rate.

[AetherMcLoud]

The level 1-49 bracket's introduction resulted in warzones becoming fun and competitive and revitalized pvp for everyone i know...because it removed expertise from the equation.

 

I completely agree with this. I pretty much retired my rather fresh level 50 Powertech because PVPing with alts before level 50 is SO MUCH MORE FUN.