The Expertise stat has to go...

[Treebyrn]

I say get rid of the damn thing......example is remember how much fun PVP was during the thanksgiving beta...why because no one had +50skill gear and *** rolled you....it actually took skill and strat to kill other players.....now its **** me here comes purple light saber and theres 3 of us with brand new 50 gear...gg.

 

The ones here that try to say it should stay, are those that have no life and grinded to 50 and had the upper hand on everyone. *Snip*

 

Plus keep in mind that those who have full champ or BM gear will always be ahead of the curve thus every patch that releases a new tier of gear is a steady / less resistant path to get that gear unlike most who will always have an uphill battle.

 

 

I hear people say stuff like "wow has been doing it for years and players have no issues", to them I say yes but people have so much time invested into that game that they are willing to put up with it. Imagine if Bliz scrapped WoW and launched a new mmo today called NoW, this mmo is pretty much the same thing as vanilla + TBC wow but in space instead. How many subs to you think they would hold onto once people realized they were going to have to grind out a pvp set and a pve set of gear and if they didn't they would fall behind the curve? Keep in mind that people do not have years and years invested into the game and their characters, so my feeling is they would move on to another game or limit the amount of time they do spend in game. BTW I chose the example of vanilla + TBC wow because this is the xpac that introduced resilience plus the other two xpacs introduced things that might have kept people around longer for a new game such as dungeon finder and raid finder (makes grinding for gear a little easier).

Edited January 14, 2012 by Treebyrn

[Trenyc]

I remember when WoW offered epic quality rewards for PvP and didn't have a PvP stat. I believe they came to be known as "welfare epics."

[Kanthric]

...nothing stopping high end PvP and high end raid gear having comparable stats. If, for whatever reason, you want to boost stats for PvE purposes then you introduce a PvE stat equivalent of Expertise. WAR had something highly similar.

 

Having a PvP stat boost that's gained by virtue of having played more PvP than someone new is just an excuse to stamp all over comparative newcomers to PvP by giving you not only a gear and experience advantage, but also an inbuilt damage / defence / healing bonus on top.

 

No logical reason for that except to encourage PvP grinding as opposed to, y'know, doing PvP because its actually fun...

[Migrayn]

you dont need a pvp stat to make pvp gear equal to pve gear. Raiders wont own pvp of pvpers can get equal stat gear. Its not wellfair epic since killing players takes more skill then beating the same AI over and over. Players are not as predictable as an AI boss.

 

Gear should just have different paths to obtaining it. They dont have to be different stats. Not when thei one stat makes those without completly unable to compete even if better skilled.

[lokivoid]

A level 50 PvP bracket simply will not save the PvP in this game.

 

There is no logical explanation for having a PvP stat in this MMO game, or in fact any MMO game. The only possible reason for Expertise to exist in this game is to screw over people who cant grind it first.

 

Even if you did have a 50's only bracket, you'd be creating more problems than you're fixing. Aside from all the obvious queue time issues, the 50's bracket will suffer from the exact same problems we have now; the bracket will divided up into New 50's and Old 50's, ie. people who dont have their 10% Expertise bonus yet, and those that do.

 

But you might say, "Everyone will become an Old 50 eventually." and yes, they might. But then what would be the point in everyone having the same 10% Expertise bonus, when all it's going to do is cancel out everyone elses 10% Expertise bonus. The only outside issue there is that healing will still be 10% stronger, but if you wanted that why wouldn't you just lower the Trauma debuff by 10%?

 

It's honestly unimaginable to even begin to hope to understand what anyone was thinking when they thought putting Expertise into the game would be a good idea.

 

 

Removing the stat doesn't mean PvP Gear has to go, the point of PvP Gear/Experience/Credits in the first place is so that people who want an alternative to PvE can still progress. There all kinds of stats in this game that mean you could make all kinds of PvP Gear Sets, whether they are Purple or Mods, so people can look however they want to, or however you want them to look, and they can mix and match all these different pieces of gear to whatever their hearts desire. To give you an idea of the combinations of gear that could be possible:

 

- Primary Stat

- Endurance

• Crit Rating
  
• Surge
  
• Alacrity
  
• Power
  

 

Now reverse the Primary Stat and Endurance, so that Endurance is the bigger of the two and look how much choice you have... something for everyone, even. Now when you're 50 and you arent bolstered anymore, you can decide which stat you want more of, in return for lower stats on other stuff, or you can even decide to have an equal balance.

 

A crazy thing, having a choice, isn't it? Like choosing to have Fun over Frustration. Or choosing to resubscribe... or perhaps not.

 

 

 

I'm not even mad.

 

Expertise is fine, Infact alot of hard hitters dont even use it becuse it sucks up a augment slot they could focus towards damage.

 

Reality is expertise modifier is rather low, most you see is a whooping 12% modifier. thats far from game breaking buddy.

[lokivoid]

I remember when WoW offered epic quality rewards for PvP and didn't have a PvP stat. I believe they came to be known as "welfare epics."

 

nah the warlord / marshall in there orginall system had been far from "welfare gear" in order to obtain it you had to reach the top of the ladder system (alot more grind and time over raiding, and most that achieved it did it in long term premade groups).

 

The gear it offered was considered BIS up until nax and BC's release. When BC released the gear was on a token system and resilience (pvp stat) was introduced.

[KaiHeilos]

you dont need a pvp stat to make pvp gear equal to pve gear.

That's kind of the point. They're not supposed to be equal.

 

Its not wellfair epic since killing players takes more skill then beating the same AI over and over. Players are not as predictable as an AI boss.

You don't actually have to win to get it, welfare epics.

 

Gear should just have different paths to obtaining it. They dont have to be different stats. Not when thei one stat makes those without completly unable to compete even if better skilled.

So go get it?

[apacheFXX]

You DONT NEED A PVP STAT IS BW WOULD ATUALLU IMPLEMENT A DECENT REWARDS/TOKEN SYSTEM THAT MIRRORED PVE. LOVE HOW ALL YOU IDIOTS SAY ITS NEEDED. PVP STAT IS A WORTHLESS WAY TO BALANCE A GAME Edited January 24, 2012 by Aurrelio

[RealAeiouy]

...nothing stopping high end PvP and high end raid gear having comparable stats. If, for whatever reason, you want to boost stats for PvE purposes then you introduce a PvE stat equivalent of Expertise. WAR had something highly similar.

 

Having a PvP stat boost that's gained by virtue of having played more PvP than someone new is just an excuse to stamp all over comparative newcomers to PvP by giving you not only a gear and experience advantage, but also an inbuilt damage / defence / healing bonus on top.

 

No logical reason for that except to encourage PvP grinding as opposed to, y'know, doing PvP because its actually fun...

 

People who succeed at pvp get rewards for it. Makes perfect sense in a. Bars get progression game.

[RealAeiouy]

You DONT NEED A PVP STAT IS BW WOULD ATUALLU IMPLEMENT A DECENT REWARDS/TOKEN SYSTEM THAT MIRRORED PVE. LOVE HOW ALL YOU IDIOTS SAY ITS NEEDED. PVP STAT IS A WORTHLESS WAY TO BALANCE A GAME

 

You clearly don't understand the issues and are as wrong as one can be.

 

If you don't like pvping don't pvp. People who like Pvp don't mind earning gear

[RevenanceSLC]

I remember when WoW offered epic quality rewards for PvP and didn't have a PvP stat. I believe they came to be known as "welfare epics."

 

No. They became welfare epics when the system that was originally very hard and time consuming, 2 and a half to 3 months, was nerfed down to a set amount of honor you had to earn. The old system was fine because even if you afk'd for 3 months or longer to get the best gear (that wasn replaced around the time AQ40 came out) most people that got it honestly via PvE already had on par gear.

 

The problem with gear with no PvP stat is how do you balance it without affecting PvE? Alot of people would say just load it up with endurance. But then why would a PvE'er not just use PvP gear with extraordinary amounts of health on the gear?

 

Personally I really like the Experise stat but I wouldnt mind something a little different. I'm not really sure what else I would suggest so until that's found this is fine.

[Tharrn]

You clearly don't understand the issues and are as wrong as one can be.

 

If you don't like pvping don't pvp. People who like WoW Pvp don't mind earning gear

 

Fixed that for you. I hate grinding for gear. There is far better ways to incentivize PvP.

[sjwho]

Let me make this

 

 

CLEAR

 

 

You can raid in pvp gear because the stats are that close.

 

So anyone saying raid gear would ruin pvp is either a hypocrite or a liar.

Edited January 14, 2012 by sjwho

[SandTrout]

Let me make this

 

 

CLEAR

 

 

You can raid in pvp gear because the stats are that close.

 

So anyone saying raid gear would ruin pvp is either a hypocrite or a liar.

QFT.

 

The Champ gear is better than anything you can acquire before hard-mode FPs already.

[Nyteshayde]

This makes no sense.. raiders get their gear from raiding (if all they want to do is raid), if they want to pvp as well then they are in the same boat as the rest of us. I am not sure how the pvp gear is for raiding but there is an outside chance that if raiders wanted to be top tier in both raiding and pvp then they will have to grind out 2 sets of gear.

 

I kind of agree with the OP, there is no need for a pvp only stat. They only thing that is needed is for top end pvp gear to = raid gear. The reason wow added resilience is because people decked out in top end raid gear were blowing people up in pvp, if wow had just made the top end pvp gear = top end raid gear then both side would have been happy (you get your gear your way and I will get mine my way ).

 

 

In Vanilla, WoW also gave PvP gear a ton of stamina to make up for the smaller damage stats that it gave, which could be a pretty good idea for SWTOR. I agree that expertise just makes the game feel sort of dull and grindy.

[sjwho]

In Vanilla, WoW also gave PvP gear a ton of stamina to make up for the smaller damage stats that it gave, which could be a pretty good idea for SWTOR. I agree that expertise just makes the game feel sort of dull and grindy.

 

You really shouldn't compare to wow's pvp since its structure is so much more solid all around that it can't be compared.

 

But resilience as it is now, is dmg reduction.

 

Expertise is dmg reduction, dmg increase, and healing increased.

 

 

Its literally 2x as bad as wow's resilience.

[EternalFinality]

Are you so narrow sighted that you cannot see the benefit that you would gain from this? Ok, so PvP gears up a little faster than PvE. Does that hurt you? No. You still get your gear at a rate that you considered acceptable before the change, even if someone else is getting it faster than you now.

 

Does needing to grind PvP for top end gear after you've already achieved top-end PvE gear hurt you? Yes. It takes more time performing at sub-par levels before you can reach the point where your only real limitation is your spec and personal skill.

 

I enjoy raids because their fun. If they're so much of a chore for you that you need those rewards to prove that the raid you beat was worth it, you've got major issues that I'm not licensed to treat.

 

Exactly. It's pure jealously and ego. They're getting their gear, but if someone else has a way of doing it *faster* then whoah hold everything something is wrong!

 

You can never be good enough. Everyone else must be worse, or else all your "work" is suddenly "meaningless"

[Guntsu]

Let me make this

 

 

CLEAR

 

 

You can raid in pvp gear because the stats are that close.

 

So anyone saying raid gear would ruin pvp is either a hypocrite or a liar.

 

So are you saying that PVP gear and PVE gear should always be equal?

[SandTrout]

So are you saying that PVP gear and PVE gear should always be equal?

 

I'm not sure about him, but I am most definitely saying that.

[EternalFinality]

So are you saying that PVP gear and PVE gear should always be equal?

 

I am.

[Jargonaut]

I am.

 

Allow me to add my name to that assertation. Why shouldn't they be equal? There's not enough time to grind both, why restrict proper access to one type of content or the other?

Edited January 14, 2012 by Jargonaut

[xxdragonragexx]

People will no longer play PvE encounters if both gears are equal.

PvP gear can be soloed. PvE gear requires a group.

If they are equal, most will just pvp since it is easier and can be soloed.

No one will see the PvE zones and quests.

 

There are many more things that can go wrong with this but I really don't want to educate people. Go research it and stuff. But taking the pvp stat will never happen. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how hard you people cry.

[SandTrout]

People will no longer play PvE encounters if both gears are equal.

PvP gear can be soloed. PvE gear requires a group.

If they are equal, most will just pvp since it is easier and can be soloed.

No one will see the PvE zones and quests.

 

There are many more things that can go wrong with this but I really don't want to educate people. Go research it and stuff. But taking the pvp stat will never happen. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how hard you people cry.

So, what you're saying here is that the PvE content is crap.

[Treebyrn]

People will no longer play PvE encounters if both gears are equal.

PvP gear can be soloed. PvE gear requires a group.

If they are equal, most will just pvp since it is easier and can be soloed.

No one will see the PvE zones and quests.

 

There are many more things that can go wrong with this but I really don't want to educate people. Go research it and stuff. But taking the pvp stat will never happen. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how hard you people cry.

 

Notice what I highlighted in red... why does this not make sense to me? Pve'ers who want to raid and experience all the pve content, plan to pvp for their gear because it is easier but then refuse to use that gear to raid or explore pve content? You know it is passable to add stuff into the pve content that you can not get via pvp thus insuring players will venture into the land of raiding and questing... I mean they already have needed crafting materials tied into hard modes already.

[Feskitt]

Said it before, will say it again.

 

 

Comparable top notch gear/mods should be achievable by either PvE or PvP of equal effort, time, and accomplishment.

 

Crafting should also allow (limited) top-notch gear.