To play against another player, and have fun doing so.

19) If you Root, stun, or mezz the ball carrier while he is on top to the flametrap, lag will cause him to actually be just past it. 20) If you Root, Stun, or mezz the ball carrier just before they get to the flame trap, there will be no lag.

TOR is not the worst PvP ever. City of Heroes had the worst PvP ever. That said, CoH was still a fun game because of the PvE.

How does that have anything to with Sages/Sorcerers and Scoundrels/Operatives being balanced relative to the other classes? Expertise is equally available to all classes, therefor is not a difference in the classes that can be used to balance them.

Exactly, is separates the content, and by default, separates the community.

That's not class balance.

Seriously biting my tongue, here. You stated that Expertise helped make it easier to balance classes in response to the OP asking why expertise existed. Expertise does nothing to affect class balance in the least. If it does, please present the manner in which expertise makes Class A balanced with Class B. The thread is on expertise, I did nothing to 'derail' it.

So you're saying that no balance change should ever be done for the game, people should just re-roll the god-class and be done with it?

That is not a valid argument as to why expertise is a good thing. It only argues that it will be kept, not that it should be kept. By your argument, coca-coal should have kept the cocaine because it made their drink more addictive so that it would sell better. The fact that you're trying to use it to sway me means that you have some severely messed-up thought processes.

Then you're sick and should seek couciling for addiction. Not an attack, but you just stated that you just stated that you only play because you are addicted, and I think you should look at what you just wrote, and seek counciling.

This is a sick entitlement attitude. Just because you've been around longer, you need an advantage. Try gaining some skill in all that time, instead. You'll have your advantage without needing someone to give it to you on a silver platter.

I would like a two-second resistance to CC's included with the Break-Free ability that everyone gets.

I agree, but I would have to do heroics multiple times over, and raids multiple times over in order to get my PvE gear to match my PvP gear. Correct, I should not need to do Heroics, I should be allowed to choose. Their business model is addiction, then, not a fun game, and I am opposed to playing a game that is not fun, simply addictive. I understand why they do it, but for you to claim that it is a good thing that you are addicted and they are feeding your addiction is what does not make sense. If the Operations are fun, I'll go back and do them again. Then I'll play PvP for a while, then I'll go have more fun with operations. My argument is that I want the game to be more fun, not more addictive.

So what you are saying is that BioWare should alienate as much of its customer base as possible except for the people who like to grind.

Acutually, that's the gear disparity arguement, which is separate, if related, to the Expertise argument. Expertise is bad because it divides the community. Gear disparity is bad because it discourages new players from participating in PvP. Because you don't like EV, but you do like, SOA, and you've allready done your grind once? If you don't like EV enough to play it because it is fun, and only play it because you need the gear, then you should tell BioWare how to fix EV to make it more fun. So you want to reduce to pool of candidates you have for a given FP or PvP match because they didn't level in the manner which you consider 'proper'? Actually, I think that's the main body of people who are opposed to Expertise are PvPers that want to participate with their friends in Nightmare FPs. I haven't done a poll or anything though, so I might be wrong. Gear disparity issue here which is not resolved by expertise, unless the new player is a PvE player, in which case if they want to grind for their PvP and find doing such to be fun, can create an alternate character regardless of weather Expertise is included. Yes, it does divide the community into those who PvE (do a lot of FPs) and those who PvP (Do a lot of PvP). The barrier between the two communities is a gear grind, which I acknowledge will exist to some extent and create gear disparity.

I enjoy PvP and PvE. I do not enjoy grinding the same content repetitively.

@Andur, Is the progression grind what you enjoy? If you enjoy the grind, you can make an Alt so that you can grind to your heart's content. I can't, and wouldn't, take that away from you. Because that is all that expertise does, is create a second grind for the alternate set of gear. I don't like the grind, so your arument regarding me ruining your game is actually me trying to un-ruin my game. Interestingly, my suggestion for making the game more fun for me by removing the necessity of an un-fun part does not prevent you from accessing the part that I do not find fun, and you do. Meanwhile, you are defending an aspect of the game that forces me to do something un-fun but doesn't allow you to do anything that you could not do before.

The current system isn't conductive to a fun game because it forces people to participate in content that they do not enjoy. Which is funny that you say that, because expertise is what is most directly limiting the amount of end-game content you can participate in.

Which has nothing to do with expertise. What expertise does is prevent someone who has been PvPing for the last month from being a viable candidate for your HM FP because his gear isn't adequate. I would expect them to pick the better geared person. What expertise does is prevent someone who has been PvEing for the last month from being a viable candidate for PvP because his gear isn't adequate. Then we can just select the best person, regardless of weather they PvP most of the time or PvE most of the time, although not if they only recently made 50.

PvP stats did not exist before WoW, therefore the discussions regarding PvP stats could not exist. WoW was not PvP centric, it was PvE centric. DAoC did not have PvP stats on gear, and it most definitely had PvP beyond area-style warzones. Even their battlegrounds were PvP beyond the scale of the current warzones. a 20% net difference is not significant? It had been dropping for a long time before that, though I won't doubt that WoW made a more noticable mark. Then why do you insist on a system that leaves you an 'out'? Two simple solutions exists: 1) Change the stats of Battlemaster gear so that they match PvE gear. 2) Give set, class-based stats on armor upon entering a WarZone. Functionally, no-gear PvP. I focus on winning matches as well. That does not mean I appreciate being at a handicap. Do you have anything against Battlemaster gear matching Rataka gear, then? I honestly don't think that we are as much in disagreement here as we first thought. I undestand that people don't want to be forced to PvE in order to PvP. I don't want to be either. PvE players should not be able to dominate in PvP because they have access to superior gear than PvP players do. However, I also do not like a a game mechanic that divides the player base and requires that they focus on only one aspect of the game while placing a grind-barrier between them and the other aspect. I am not hear because I loose matches, I am here because I dislike grinding.

Is grinding out your way to battle-master enjoyable to you? Edit: Not trolling, honest question.

it's a 1% damage reduction, but it's a 1% damage reduction on both parties, meaning only that the theoretically average fight will last 1% longer.

Dividing the community between PvP and PvE is a bad thing because it reduces the amount of the game that any given player can participate in.

Maybe I did not explain myself well. Yes, I do have a problem with gear disparity. I also have a problem with needing to grind twice for separate sets of PvP and PvE gear. I would rather grind once. Expertise still has nothing to do with making it easier to balance classes, as it is completely unrelated to class balance, only extending the gear grind, which I do not enjoy.

Your math is correct, but the resulting reduced damage in negligible on the scales we're dealing with. It functionally cancels itself out except with regards to healing, which has no counter-effect included in expertise.