Okamakiri Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Having two paths to the exact same gear IS the problem. Why should a hardcore raider who has never stepped into a warzone have the best PvP gear? That will make the elite gear club even MORE exclusive. The same reason a PVPer could have the best PVE gear. If the best PVP gear is same as best PVE gear, the playing field is equal whether you prefer to PVP or PVE, or do a bit of both. Why shouldn't the gear earned in one aspect of the game not be viable in another? Should craftable gear not be usable in PVP or PVE either then? Should Biochem/Cybertech consumables not be usable in PVP either? This whole notion of separating PVP and PVE as if they're two distinct games within the same game is a primitive and outdated idea, and has been proven a failure repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibretto Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I absolutley agree about removing expertise from the game. Still allow PvP'ers to acquire competitive gear through Pvp'ing, but don't put a pvp specific stat in the game. It fragments the community and has been stated makes it difficult to get into pvp at 50, and causes you to look at all the gear you've acquired in flashpoints and wonder why it's not nearly as good in WZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okamakiri Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah i want expertise gone so that raiders can come into PvP and wreck my face over and over then start farming us at spawn The only way that raider would be wrecking your face due to gear is if you have not achived the same level of gear through PVP that he has achieved through PVE. The key is keeping the achievable PVP and PVE gear equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only way that raider would be wrecking your face due to gear is if you have not achived the same level of gear through PVP that he has achieved through PVE. The key is keeping the achievable PVP and PVE gear equal. And where this system is flawed it would be easier to get raid gear from PvP than PvE and we would get people with no intention of PvPing in our groups farming for their PvE gear therefore ruining the core PvPers experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Sorry, but if you're a PvPer, and you support Expertise. You are bad. There is literally no reason for PvE and PvP to be seperated by a statistic as polarizing and ineffective for it's purpose as Expertise. It alienates players new to the system and grants a CLEAR ADVANTAGE to players who REPEATEDLY claim that they want an "even playing field" in PvP. These kinds of players will piss and moan when they get their face smashed by someone in better gear than them, claiming that if they were on an even playing field things would be different. Then, after bashing on nabs with 150 Expertise, they run to the forums to defend their crutch because without it, even carebears would stomp them. It's also insanely amusing to see people complaining that raiders would be on equal footing, if a raider is on "equal" footing with you, simply because his gear is the same, then you are terrible at PvP and don't deserve the gear to begin with. Skill should always be the determining factor in PvP, and as long as Expertise exists, gear will be the determining factor. Edited January 24, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 pve raid gear and pvp gear are about equal, no point to get rid of expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sorry, but if you're a PvPer, and you support Expertise. You are bad. There is literally no reason for PvE and PvP to be seperated by a statistic as polarizing and ineffective for it's purpose as Expertise. It alienates players new to the system and grants a CLEAR ADVANTAGE to players who REPEATEDLY claim that they want an "even playing field" in PvP. These kinds of players will piss and moan when they get their face smashed by someone in better gear than them, claiming that if they were on an even playing field things would be different. Then, after bashing on nabs with 150 Expertise, they run to the forums to defend their crutch because without it, even carebears would stomp them. It's also insanely amusing to see people complaining that raiders would be on equal footing, if a raider is on "equal" footing with you, simply because his gear is the same, then you are terrible at PvP and don't deserve the gear to begin with. As I said just a moment ago And where this system is flawed it would be easier to get raid gear from PvP than PvE and we would get people with no intention of PvPing in our groups farming for their PvE gear therefore ruining the core PvPers experience You really want someone that sucks at PvP in everyone of your groups or half your team to be core PvE players that have no clue how to pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I agree that the only players that support the expertise stat are those that know deep down that they need it to win. Anyone confident in their abilities could care less. It is a verbal representation of who is confident and who is not. Edited January 24, 2012 by Dogfatherxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) As I said just a moment ago You really want someone that sucks at PvP in everyone of your groups or half your team to be core PvE players that have no clue how to pvp? You really don't think thats how it already is? Not sure what server you're on, but I want to be there, because in my world most people in PvP aren't very good anyhow. Get a pre-made. Edited January 24, 2012 by Celebrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleightly Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Nowai. Kepe expertese. My freinds and I can't make sorc premades with sploited gear and call ever1 baddys if you get rid of it. U dont want that. -BRO OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) You really don't think thats how it already is? Not sure what server you're on, but I want to be there, because in my world most people in PvP aren't very good anyhow. Get a pre-made. But atleast the people there have intention of PvPing while all the PvE players are running their flashpoints and such Edit: Really if you think you are losing alot now just see how bad it would be if the system you want is implemented Edited January 24, 2012 by Junebugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You really want someone that sucks at PvP in everyone of your groups or half your team to be core PvE players that have no clue how to pvp? What? Who cares? What if they start to learn about PVP and really enjoy it, at least it is more people playing PVP than less. Expertise is a terrible stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What? Who cares? What if they start to learn about PVP and really enjoy it, at least it is more people playing PVP than less. Expertise is a terrible stat Im fresh 50 and should be owning everyone QQ I bet thats you right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 IF YOU AGREE, check this post for a POLL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welve Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Im fresh 50 and should be owning everyone QQ I bet thats you right? I am a sage with 600 expertise, get over yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprasz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If anything it need's to be raised its way too low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManRelic Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) you raid, you get a reward (better gear for raiding) you pvp, you get a reward (better gear for pvp) I don't see what so hard to comprehend about this. Why would you want to PvP if you werent rewarded for doing so. If you take away expertise, PvP is going to be stupid because 50's wont have any reason for it. 3-5k credits? gear that isnt optimal for pve? I'm sure some people like to play hutt ball 5billion times just for the hell of it, but I like being rewarded. You also feel much more accomplished when you do get your gear, because it was hard to do so. You also learn how to be a better player because you aren't "the muscle" and therefore have to learn to help your team in other ways. The difference here is this: In PvE, you're not attemping to do Hardmode Soa in level 49 greens and blues from your endgame quests/GTN purchases. You work up to it through less difficult encounters. That's exactly what expertise encourages, as an analogy. In PvE terms, you are forced to fight the hardest endgame content with gear barely fit for grinding it out to 50, and never intended for endgame raiding. At least the HM endgame bosses don't come onto the forums talking about how they owned noobs due to their 'skill' (AKA mathematical realities) Stupid system is stupid. Edited January 24, 2012 by OldManRelic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armethious Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The player you quoted in your ogional post makes sense, even if you remove the professional athlete from the example. There are dozens of softball leagues comprised of people who play the game for fun. As the person you quoted said, they do not get a new uniform at the end of every game. Yep, and those people who play the game for "fun" how is their talent compared to those who play for a reward? Generally speaking those who have the most talent at a given sport will play for a reward, be that reward a scholarship, money, or opportunity for advancement. Those that play for "fun" generally are not the most talented at whatever sport you are referring to. I would love an example of someone who is at the top of his game and is NOT being rewarded in some way. As for your statement that expertice is a needed stat because "it seperates the pve players from me." Expertice is a crutch for the weak. If you need it to be able to beat PvE players in PvP, then either you lack the skill many people are refering to that expertice removes, or you do not wish to have a competative fight -- you would rather overpower and dominate lesser-geared players because of game mechaincs and not superior tactics and stragety. It is very simple. It has nothing to do with wanting to faceroll lessor geared opponents. You first have to accept THIS IS A GEAR PROGRESSION GAME. There WILL be gear that is better than other gear. There WILL be players who have better gear than other players. This is the FOUNDATION of the game that Bioware created. If you are advocating for a gear neutral PvP system, then this is NOT the game for you. Go find whatever game that uses that system and play that. Now if you have accepted this is a gear progression game, then in order to make the gear different from PvE you need something to make it different. Different play styles, different gear. The way Bioware choose to make it different is through expertise. Do not fool yourself. Expertice is suppose to exists to increase the time players need to farm gear. However, in BioWare's short-sightedness, they made expertice the most heavily weighted stat in the game. What was suppose to be a time sink has now become a game-breaking stat that allows the "haves" to dominate the "have nots." Wow, I have no idea what game you are playing, or who you are playing with. It has been my experience that as implemented, expertise is pretty useless. I am getting rid of my PvP gear as fast as I can find a PvE equivalent. I both raid and PvP and currently raid gear stomps PvP gear in PvP. As I have previously posted, I am all for implementing an additional tier of PvP gear that can be crafted. I completely agree there is too much of a void between the level 40 pvp gear and centurion gear. But this has absolutely nothing to do with expertise. And I say this being a player that dominates in level 50 PvP, without a fullset of PvP gear. Well good for you. My friends and I dominate on our server as well, and most of them are in mostly PvE gear. We roll with PvE gear because it is better than PvP gear of equal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junebugs Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I am a sage with 600 expertise, get over yourself Lol on a serious note though.. If you hit 50 and go into a warzone against people with no expertise but are still geared you will be ran over just as bad you will still die your way to success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 People will no longer play PvE encounters if both gears are equal. PvP gear can be soloed. PvE gear requires a group. If they are equal, most will just pvp since it is easier and can be soloed. No one will see the PvE zones and quests. There are many more things that can go wrong with this but I really don't want to educate people. Go research it and stuff. But taking the pvp stat will never happen. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No matter how hard you people cry. That's not true. People who PvP prefer PvP and will engage in PvP. People who engage in 16 person end-game raids will continue to PvE. The only reasons PvPers engage in PvE is a) to experience the story once, b) level, and c) obtain gear. If gear advantages are neutralized like they were in Guild Wars and are going to being to be in Guild Wars 2, then PvPers will PvP for the fun of it and PvE players will PvE for the fun of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOTOR-LOVER Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's not true. People who PvP prefer PvP and will engage in PvP. People who engage in 16 person end-game raids will continue to PvE. The only reasons PvPers engage in PvE is a) to experience the story once, b) level, and c) obtain gear. If gear advantages are neutralized like they were in Guild Wars and are going to being to be in Guild Wars 2, then PvPers will PvP for the fun of it and PvE players will PvE for the fun of it. I don't see why they can't just make it FUN. Didn't everyone have fun in beta weekends and early access when it was all a level playing field? Vote here: http://www.gfxpoll.com/viewpoll/9529-do_you_think_pvp_stats_should_go.html if you do/do not support getting rid of PVP stats/gear or even gear being applied to PVP in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRiddick Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 guildwars did it right, gear is not an issue, PvP is about skill and competition. the problem you have is all the WoW boyz and girlz comin over here and thinking anything different is a curse to the game. I have the gear, and I still think it is stupid to have a stat that gives such an advantage as expertise, I loved leveling up in PvP when no one was geared with expertise, there was always PvP matches, people were even. it was a BLAST, then people showed up in champion gear and ruined the PvP for everyone else, therefore we have bracket for 50's, Doesn't anyone else see the problem here? PvP WAS fun until one stat was introduced and unbalanced PvP. guess what that was... you got it... expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrinic Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 ROFL @ carebears mad that they can't use your Columi gear to dominate in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You really want someone that sucks at PvP in everyone of your groups or half your team to be core PvE players that have no clue how to pvp? I want whatever system gets as many people into PvP as possible. The only problem in an MMO I can't work around is lack of players, so my primary concern is what brings in new players and what drives them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 guildwars did it right, gear is not an issue, PvP is about skill and competition. the problem you have is all the WoW boyz and girlz comin over here and thinking anything different is a curse to the game. I have the gear, and I still think it is stupid to have a stat that gives such an advantage as expertise, I loved leveling up in PvP when no one was geared with expertise, there was always PvP matches, people were even. it was a BLAST, then people showed up in champion gear and ruined the PvP for everyone else, therefore we have bracket for 50's, Doesn't anyone else see the problem here? PvP WAS fun until one stat was introduced and unbalanced PvP. guess what that was... you got it... expertise. how does it unbalance pvp? people with better gear will beat people with crap gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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