Addon vs Hack. Do you understand there is a difference?

[imtrick]

I'm just curious. because it seems like those who cry that we shouldnt have addons think they are hacks that give an "unfair advantage".

 

 

theres a difference. i promise.

 

It depends how you define "hack." If you actually know what it means, mods are very much hacks. Some of them are really good ones. It's not a bad thing.

 

I realize most people don't use the term that way, but those who do use it as intended know what I'm talking about.

Edited January 4, 2012 by imtrick

[Volksworgen]

It depends how you define "hack." If you actually know what it means, mods are very much hacks. Some of them are really good ones. It's not a bad thing.

 

I realize most people don't use the term that way, but those who do use it as intended know what I'm talking about.

 

The way he is referring to hack means getting an advantage over another player.

[Streak]

I'm a healer. If I stop healing there are only a few reasons why.

1) You should know better than to pull aggro.

2) I picked up an add, help might be needed.

3) I'm stun'ed, CC'ed , etc.

 

If I stop healing for long enough, the group will end up wiping. You don't need a 'tool' to clue you.

 

I just want them to fix raid frames so i they update properly so i can heal them properly so that needs fixed.

[norfpole]

Yes there's a difference.

And no, we don't need them.

If you want the channels spammed with:

'LFM for X, must have LetMeSpyOnYourGear rating of Y, ICannotHealSoINeedThisCrutch needed for healing spot, IHaveNoIdeaHowAggroWorks addon for tanking spots, and LookAtMyBigFlashyNumbers addon for dps spots'

... go play that other MMO.

 

prime example of someone who has no idea what theyre talking about.

[norfpole]

You missed his point entirely. Right now, you get 'LFM *** Flashpoint, need heals and DPS'. With addons, you start to get things like 'LFM *** Flashpoint, Min 1600 Gearscore, need heals with healbot, need dps with Omen, all must have DBM installed'.

 

If addons don't exist, they can't become mandatory/required.

 

 

if you werent let into a group in wow because you didnt have omen or healbot or gearscore, they were lying to you. its because you sucked, and you werent properly geared/skilled for the group. stop pretending that no mods = your green goblin s.h.i.t. character gets carried now.

[zootzoot]

Cosmetic UI addons, fine. But the ones that automate tasks or monitor situations for you (like DBM, healbot, etc) actively force developers to change the content for everyone in order to compensate for the addons.

 

STOP STOP STOP. I'm so tired of posters talking about fictional mods that automate anything. If you're knowledge of the subject is from Urban Legends stop friggin' posting because you look like a fool.

 

Healbot is a Raid frame alternative with Click casting built in. That's it. It replaces the stock Raid frames which is cosmetic and adds the ability to bind abilities to Mouse Clicks. That's it.

 

DBM just moves announcements from the Combat Log to a place on the screen that's more legible. That's it.

 

Clueless posters are growing tiresome.

[norfpole]

stop stop stop. I'm so tired of posters talking about fictional mods that automate anything. If you're knowledge of the subject is from urban legends stop friggin' posting because you look like a fool.

 

Healbot is a raid frame alternative with click casting built in. That's it. It replaces the stock raid frames which is cosmetic and adds the ability to bind abilities to mouse clicks. That's it.

 

Dbm just moves announcements from the combat log to a place on the screen that's more legible. That's it.

 

Clueless posters are growing tiresome.

 

 

 

qft....

[zootzoot]

if you werent let into a group in wow because you didnt have omen or healbot or gearscore, they were lying to you. its because you sucked, and you werent properly geared/skilled for the group. stop pretending that no mods = your green goblin s.h.i.t. character gets carried now.

 

Exactly. Who's asking for GS for a 5 man....and do these clueless types even know how GS works?

[joscomi]

Huh...

 

 

 

Yep.

 

Honestly, I'm sick of hearing the same arguments over and over again as of why Addons and Macros shouldn't be there. As if it breaks the game to know how people are doing in DPS and Healing or as if it makes me dumb to know where my threat is and thus be able to maximize my DPS. You know what? Sure, I suck. I have less skills than you do because I use a mod to warn me about bad stuff during boss encounters. And I'm retarded because I can't do **** DPS without a Threat meter. Why don't you just let me be stupidly bad and dumb as f*ck with my addons? No one is forcing you to take them if you don't want to.

 

.

 

Yep, any player that doesnt understand aggro control, needs help moving to avoid dmg, too not know why the group is wiping, either by lack of healing, tanking....is a dumb and weak player. You know there are games like yatzee, its much easier to grasp.

 

A perfect example of why add are only used by those who lack any knowledge or skill of mmo's. We do not need macros, threat meters, combat logs in this game. This game will be ruined like WoW if they do.

 

Macros, dmg meters affect everyone wether you deny it or not.

Edited January 4, 2012 by joscomi

[Maoxx]

Well to those arguing against combat logs, they have already said something that they will be added. Prolly around the same time as the UI customization. And to the guy that thinks the game will be ruined by a combat log.........how many MMO's have you played that didn't have one aside from this one, because I really can't think of too many or actually any at all or any that were actually good.

 

Also you realize through gaming mice and keyboards macros are already allowed. EA/BW whoever has allowed a 3rd party company to develop a game specific mouse and keyboard for TOR and it does allow you to set macro's. So already your argument is shot down on both counts by BW.

[Meyple]

It depends how you define "hack." If you actually know what it means, mods are very much hacks. Some of them are really good ones. It's not a bad thing.

 

I realize most people don't use the term that way, but those who do use it as intended know what I'm talking about.

 

You sir win the internet stupidity of the day from me.

 

There is no justification from your clause saying that an ADDON or a MACRO is a hack. You apparently do not program nor do you know anything about the way that basic computing works outside of the movie hackers and die hard. Please uninstall windows and go outside.

 

I am going to explain to you how a hack, an addon and a macro differ before you hit the reply button and make yourself look even more retarded.

 

1. A hack is creating a section of code, or a strapped configuration, or anything that piggy backs or attempts to do unauthorized code, a work around for code, a incomplete code or a code cave in the attempts to create a subversion to a system protecting the action or a replication of moving code to a code cave causing a clash in what the code is doing and what the debugged return is.

 

Example: $a = '2' + '2'; print $a. The hack would be, str_replace(2, 3); print $a which returns 6. Thats a hack.

 

2. An addon is simply the addition to compliment or complete code modules. In this example, the API calls for time(DD:MM::YYYY), if I call the code API, time(DD) it will just print the day, if I use an API time(DD::YY); trim(2::2(2)) it would return DAY 12. An addon allows me to parse the information sent by the game client in any customizable fashion that I want, be it timers, games, action bars, flashies, clickies, pictures, bags, maps, large text, DBM, combat parsing.

 

ALL of them are numbers that I am parsing to how I want.

 

3. Macros are just the use of ingame mechanics being simplified:

 

Ok let me try to get this forward to people that just are not grasping the concept of AddOn's and Macros.

 

After reading and reading again and again it seems that people are arguing over AddOn's giving some sort of advantage over other players. The same goes for Macro systems. It doesn't not in any way possible. Here is why.

 

 

First off, an addon does not change the code of the game. An addon is just that an additional online set of rules that your computer is going to follow to parse data. If your not understanding what I am talking about compare it to this:

 

Lets say you get a check in the mail for 100$. You go to the bank and deposit this check and now your account balance is 100$. You check the primary source of information which would be the teller or ATM. It says, guess what.. you have 100$.

 

Now lets say you download an application for your phone which links and "adds onto" the already existing bank account that has 100$. When you use that addon to your bank account its going to show you that you have guess what. 100$. But its not going to show you on something that spits out money, no instead its going to show you that you have 100$ on your phone. Because you didn't change anything, that doesn't mean you have 100$ extra on your phone and the original has 100$. Its a way to change out the standard view and make it easier for you to get the information that you want.

 

Now for Macros, how do macro's simplify life. Lets say you want a statement every time you send 10$. You have to click through 5 different buttons to get the desired response to get it. If you macro the end result, or the rotation of clicking buttons that automation of repetition is still done, but in a faster fashion of not having to go through the monotonous steps.

 

Lets say when you get to 40$ you want to send an email, the script could be something like

Code:

if($money = "$[money]" . < '40' && > float(0.01)); { do action } else {do this action}

The psuedo code above is read if your money is less than 40 and greater than 1 penny do this action. In the example above lets say I want to send a text message to remind me to deposit money. What just happened? Did I cheat the system or was I systematically smart by automating the balance of my checkbook by Macroing it into my current rotation of spending?

 

Point being, all addons and macro's use the defined scope of programming that the development allows. If its in the game and can be used through the game its accessible through the use of UI/Macro enhancements, someone wouldn't be allowed to create a program to automate trade.. thats called a BOT which is what 90% of this forum is apparently thinking when they hear the word "ADDON"

 

[-M]

 

 

Basically shut up unless you know what your talking about.

[Thaonnor]

Its not that they give an unfair advantage... it is that they shouldn't be needed. Addons exist because Blizzard is too lazy to make UI changes that are needed anyways.. Bioware should not take this approach.

[Kamay]

I'm a healer. If I stop healing there are only a few reasons why.

1) You should know better than to pull aggro.

2) I picked up an add, help might be needed.

3) I'm stun'ed, CC'ed , etc.

 

If I stop healing for long enough, the group will end up wiping. You don't need a 'tool' to clue you.

 

take your logic and go elsewhere, this is a forum.

 

 

where logic isn't welcome.

[HonktonkGigolo]

Its not that they give an unfair advantage... it is that they shouldn't be needed. Addons exist because Blizzard is too lazy to make UI changes that are needed anyways.. Bioware should not take this approach.

 

Why would Blizzard waste the time and the money to make UI changes when they have millions of people doing it for them for FREE? In fact, the people making these AddOns are PAYING Blizzard because they're playing the game along with the rest of us. They've given people the open canvas and are essentially reaping the rewards without having to pay a dime to these people. This is a wet dream for ANY business.

[angrYdog]

Yes there's a difference.

And no, we don't need them.

If you want the channels spammed with:

'LFM for X, must have LetMeSpyOnYourGear rating of Y, ICannotHealSoINeedThisCrutch needed for healing spot, IHaveNoIdeaHowAggroWorks addon for tanking spots, and LookAtMyBigFlashyNumbers addon for dps spots'

... go play that other MMO.

 

this !

[Infrasound]

Actually, the only difference is that one 3rd party application has been approved by a company while another has not.

 

No a hack is something that is designed to cheat, an addon gives you functionality that was left out of the hard coded (and i must say TERRIBLE) UI that shipped with the game.

 

Addons don't mean cheating, anyone wanting to actually cheat will use a third party program that's external to the game itself.

[Offended]

No a hack is something that is designed to cheat, an addon gives you functionality that was left out of the hard coded (and i must say TERRIBLE) UI that shipped with the game.

 

Addons don't mean cheating, anyone wanting to actually cheat will use a third party program that's external to the game itself.

 

actually, an addon provides or adds functionality to a flexible UI. if it was hard coded, you wouldn't be able to change the functionality you wanted.

 

i.e. wow is a flexible UI

swtor is a rigid or hard coded ui.

[Meyple]

actually, an addon provides or adds functionality to a flexible UI. if it was hard coded, you wouldn't be able to change the functionality you wanted.

 

i.e. wow is a flexible UI

swtor is a rigid or hard coded ui.

 

Wrong,

 

Hardcoded means the code is not a module based set. This means creating a recursive code that scrubs the system, or an underlying layer. Example we would get an API because the UI is hardcoded into the system so if we don't use the API the hardcoded UI which is hardcoded into the original project files would be loaded.

 

WoW is not a "flexible UI" its a UI that is hardcoded in C and has an API which is coded as a modular system in LUA.

[Perfik]

and i guess you want to have no idea what killed you/your group, whos not doing enough dps to carry their weight and whos afk and not healing?

 

you can spot them without the addons..especially the afkers and the extreme slackers

[Ahlin]

Its not that they give an unfair advantage... it is that they shouldn't be needed. Addons exist because Blizzard is too lazy to make UI changes that are needed anyways.. Bioware should not take this approach.

 

No, addons exist because Blizzard, and other companies, are not psychic and cannot compensate for everything a player would/could want in their UI and to improve their gaming experience.

 

Instead of trying to anticipate everything, they instead took the (good) path of letting the players decide what they wanted as part of their interface.

[Yfelsung]

The is no point trying to explain the difference between addons and macros vs hacks and bots.

 

The people who don't know the difference are being wilfully ignorant. They don't know because they don't want to know.

 

You cannot fix those who do not wish to be fixed, you can simply ignore them, marginalize their opinion and do what you can to dampen their effect on the world around them.

[Cancrizans]

As long as they don't allow addons that take all of the thought out of playing, like Deadly Boss Mods and various other addons that do things like simplify skill rotations, give you an electric shock when a proc is up, etc. I don't mind addons.

 

WoW, however, was ruined by them and I don't want to see this game go the same way, so I hope they very strictly limit them to cosmetic and basic utility and do not allow anything that allows the player to coast through content simply by waiting for flashing lights to tell them they need to do or not do something.

[Boefje]

People are still clueless, but now let us show them in popular terms what it is in fact, copied from addonwiki.

 

"In plain English, an AddOn is just some files you can put in your game folder that can (theoretically) improve your interaction with the <removed game name> game (i.e. make it easier to play, or give you more information about what's going on in the game)."

 

That is the whole purpose of the whole discution.

Now let's answer those that think it's a hack!! Same page, official rules: (Especially read rule 3 and 7"

 

AddOns must be free of charge.

AddOn code must be completely visible.

AddOns must not negatively impact <removed game name> realms or other players.

AddOns may not include advertisements.

AddOns may not solicit donations.

AddOns must not contain offensive or objectionable material.

AddOns must abide by <removed game name> ToU and EULA.

<removed name> has the right to disable AddOn functionality as it sees fit.

 

Now either we're talking WoW or TOR or any other game that uses addons/mods we are talking about the same principle. Before starting to blame something, you must be sure you understand what you are blaming. Yet many people think that if you have the ability to know when a boss/player casted something which let's say, will stun or cause you harm, means that you have an unfair atvantage. That is not the case, because an addon or macro, does NOT have the ability to alter game's controls by doing something that is forbitten by the game. They are simply offering better visuals and detailed info on screen.

Also it's worth mentioning that if addons/macro's would be considered hacks as people state here, no other games (which already uses them)would have accepted the use of them.

 

Suit yourself with the original wiki page and learn something