An example of how unpolished endgame is

[Cranberries]

You can exploit the Ancient Pylons on Normal/Hardmode and Nightmare.

 

^____^''

[ltlsiren]

And the first boss didn't even spawn until we reset the instance once, thank god there aren't that many mobs before it.

[Datku]

Aren't you glad you rushed to 50? I mean really how many MMO's do you know that came out and had all end game content polished and perfect 3 weeks after launch?

 

Sometimes its better to stop and smell the roses leveling up instead of trampling over everything to find out the end game is a work in progress. I mean I used to play this way...be in the first batch of people lvl 50, run all the heroics/hard modes, gear up for raiding, and then spend the next 3 months beta testing raid encounters that change and are tweaked every patch to the point its a different fight every reset.

 

I now find it funny when such people complain when they find bugs or within a month of launch demand Tier 2 raids or they are going to unsub. Its your choice if you want to rush ahead but realize that you are trail blazing and going into encounters that have not been properly tuned yet. MMO's are not made for your type of play. Devs will focus on general game play for the first couple of months and then will start working on raid encounters. When 5% of the game population is raid level the 95% of the population is more important as far as resourcing staff and time. Give it a couple months and they can start to work on raids when a more significant percent of the game population are encountering the issues you are now. Right now you don't matter. Oh boo hoo you and your guild will just quit right? So be it...statistics show that those that rush to 50 and jump right into raiding get bored with games quickly and move on faster than those that are less "dedicated" than yourself.

[GeLopez]

I honestly can't be bothered to repeat this over and over, so I'm only going to say it for the last time: I like the game, I'm sticking to it, and I have no regrets with my purchase or with how I've played. I'm worried about how these bugs negatively affect perceptions of the game.

 

Anyway, we got some great news on the PVP side today. I hope we get some similar news on the PVE side as well.

[Bhigtimm]

How is being 50 at this point rushing? The game has been available for 22 days. Pre-ordering was sold to the player base with early access, which started 7 days before launch. I know personally I was in for a full 5 days before launch. The game is easy. You get a companions to help you handle the hard content. Every single heroic quest can be cleared with 2 people who know how to cc mobs. Heck if you do every quest on a planet and all your space dailies you'll very quickly be running about 5 lvls above the recommended level for a planet.

 

So what did I do wrong? Should I have not used my companion? Should I have only played by myself? Should I have skipped the dailies that the game gave me to do? Should i have skipped the quests and all the wonderful story that people yammer on about?

 

The game facilitates an easy fast path to lvl 50, and that means that content for lvl 50 should have been ready. Or you take the Vanilla Wow approach and take 3 months to fix your endgame, but you also stick in enough bloat that it takes 3 months for people to get to the endgame.

 

If you are going to remove the bloat, you have to have stuff ready for people to hit the endgame. Bioware failed to do this, and they are catching it in the teeth.

[Evensong]

Here's my 50c.

 

How many of you guys would prefer that this game is still in production because of the bugs and unpolished endgame, and instead of playing it right now - reading forums for another year LOL.

 

 

Give them a time... fast fixes can break more things than they fix... I am sure that tons of people in Bioware are working hard to get this game better so we all can enjoy it for years to come.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Evensong

[Kaedann]

Here's my 50c.

 

How many of you guys would prefer that this game is still in production because of the bugs and unpolished endgame, and instead of playing it right now - reading forums for another year LOL.

 

 

Give them a time... fast fixes can break more things than they fix... I am sure that tons of people in Bioware are working hard to get this game better so we all can enjoy it for years to come.

 

Many would have preferred they beta tested LONGER so these issues could have been worked out without us PAYING for this buggy pos.

[GeLopez]

Yeah, that's true. Even the more casual hardcore players should be lv. 50 by now. It's no longer rushing to be lv. 50.

 

Personally, I would have preferred a delay over dealing with these bugs. The first month of a MMORPG is too big to screw up.

 

Anyway, my guild is now dealing with another game-breaking bug in Eternity Vault right now: teleporting, disappearing lightning balls on the Soa encounter. They basically one-shot the raid without any way of avoiding them outside of lucky guesses.

Edited January 5, 2012 by GeLopez

[GeLopez]

Now the boss randomly decided not to respawn: http://i.imgur.com/ovXHg.jpg.

[Martinlouie]

Lopez... If only you could be a DK in swtor... then you'd be set

[BadSwings]

This game is boring.

[Ryzerion]

It wasn't. It had most of what WoW had. Even had better graphics and, in my opinion, better ideas - the 'rift idea' was one of genius. Server wide events that can entice mass pvp and mass exodus of creatures in order to gain special items. That's totally genius.

 

Rift lacked a 'big name'. That's the really depressing thing.

 

Rift lacked what SWTOR had and SWTOR is lacking the creativity plus the same issues that an 04 game had at launch.

 

Rift had same issues as SWTOR(few) and WoW but lacked the story.

 

SWTOR is doing what Rift is doing but only took a step forward in the story department.

 

So I repeated myself of course but on purpose, this is what haters and blind fans are missing, doesn't effect me as I will just observe until something is comes out this year or until SWTOR fixes the issues. Yet and still it's if I'm going to be interested by then :/.

 

Do not I mean't by a few issues SWTOR had, Rift didn't have this issue or the ability delays issue but still had other gamebreaking issues and so forth at launch.

 

Big issue is by the time they fix the issues an new mmorpg comes and grabs people that are waiting, issue is that as of right now it's obvious that no mmorpg sofar has decided to combine creative ideas together, like I said in aother thread thank God there are some devs that are doing this in fact lol.

 

I can agree that Rift also lacked IP.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Ryzerion

[DrDavidLopan]

You shouldn't be at end game yet.... go outside and take a walk. Edited January 5, 2012 by DrDavidLopan

[LeSamourai]

Don't get me wrong OP, I feel ya, but when you say stuff like "top players word of mouth influences the casual crowd from leveling up".........yea no it doesn't. Raiders in MMOs will ALWAYS be a SMALL portion of the game (good raiders even less).

 

Joe Casual doesn't give two ****s about unpolished raids, because he is too busy working on leveling alts, going through the story, exploring, guilding, etc.

 

If you want a game with GREAT endgame, you need to wait awhile for it to become established; even then, this game likely will not be for you.

[CHRISGG]

Aren't you glad you rushed to 50? I mean really how many MMO's do you know that came out and had all end game content polished and perfect 3 weeks after launch?

 

 

This player is LEGITIMATELY arguing that it's okay for an MMORPG in production for 4-5 years to release with max level content that is obviously entirely untested.

[LeSamourai]

How is being 50 at this point rushing? The game has been available for 22 days. Pre-ordering was sold to the player base with early access, which started 7 days before launch. I know personally I was in for a full 5 days before launch. The game is easy. You get a companions to help you handle the hard content. Every single heroic quest can be cleared with 2 people who know how to cc mobs. Heck if you do every quest on a planet and all your space dailies you'll very quickly be running about 5 lvls above the recommended level for a planet.

 

So what did I do wrong? Should I have not used my companion? Should I have only played by myself? Should I have skipped the dailies that the game gave me to do? Should i have skipped the quests and all the wonderful story that people yammer on about?

 

The game facilitates an easy fast path to lvl 50, and that means that content for lvl 50 should have been ready. Or you take the Vanilla Wow approach and take 3 months to fix your endgame, but you also stick in enough bloat that it takes 3 months for people to get to the endgame.

 

If you are going to remove the bloat, you have to have stuff ready for people to hit the endgame. Bioware failed to do this, and they are catching it in the teeth.

 

Umm there IS bloat: multiple characters, with multiple stories.

 

Don't like it? Don't play it. 'nuff said.

[Ryzerion]

You shouldn't be at end game yet.... go outside and take a walk.

 

If you play 6 hours a day or even 4 a day since release or EGA one could possibly be at Endgame by now.

 

It's possible to be average and be at EGA.

 

My friend is maxed because he followed the engaging story and did the side quests and he didn't spacebar at all durring the story but did near the end for sidequest.

[Egotrip]

****Breaking News****

 

Freshley released MMO has end game and PVP bugs.

 

How long you been playing MMO's? I am not excusing it, but it's pretty normal.

[Akella]

Rift's endgame wasn't quite as polished for atleast the first month as some people seem to remember, there was bugs, crashes, boss problems, bugged mechanics and not to mention exploits which caused atleast one whole guild to be banned for exploiting.

 

so no, no /argument

 

^ This is so true. Rift had a smooth launch for leveling. Endgame was there but it was by no means bug free and without any problems.

[Cepheid]

Only current problems with endgame is that nobody tested it and the patches that are being put out as "fixes" obviously have not been tested either. Thus currently nothing is actually getting fixed.

[Saschi]

I love that the only thing people are focusing on is the levelling speed, really. Let's look at the other aspects;

 

1) Voice over/questing system. Yeah, it was amazing in beta, still funky at release, but around the 30+ mark? Repetitive. My responses are almost always the same (and don't always make actual contextual sense, unless you're a trooper and just "sir, yes, sir" everything), I'm hearing a lot of familiar lines from the NPCs and their responses are just as inconsistent as mine sometimes are within the conversational flow. Doesn't help that the texted summations can be VERY misleading. I've had many occassions in which I've escaped out of a conversation near the end as it didn't feel like it flowed as per the intentions behind my selections; so not only have I gone through every conversation properly, a lot have been repeated.

 

2) I'll address this sooner rather than later, since it's brought up a lot. Alts. Besides the class quest and the slightly different wording (and the odd highly repeated class-specific response) it's the same thing I just did. To use an comparison with an argument here; you think the amount of current 50s is a small percentile of the current population? Take a look at what percent of your quest lines the class story actually comprises. 3-4 steps on the entire planet and the odd spaceship? Fun as that brief moment is, it's small. Ergo, why should I cater my time to something so minute?

 

3) PvP. I've been enjoying it, but the delay for an experienced PvPer is massive. Not to mention the lag that seems to kick in for so many in war zones. The same problems seem to kick in in 16-player operations from what I've seen too, which implies either a server or engine problem with synchronising groups of people in such environments. Neither of which are good implications for an MMO.

 

4) PvE. This has been addressed a lot from the bug side, and I don't enjoy flogging dead horses so I'm gonna bring up a different angle. Tedium. More and more as I levelled my melee tank, I became aware of anti-melee mechanics. In fact, I recall one particular flashpoint, not even a hard mode, in which at least half of all pulls featured me being stunned from the start or knocked back from each ranged mob in turn. Genuinely to such an extent that my group either had to wait 5-10 seconds before joining in, or just go ahead and let the DPS tank everything after I've taken the opening brunt. As an odd mechanical quirk it's acceptable, but when it seems as though most packs do it, it's just a tedium, especially when your friends play melee dps. It actually reminded us a lot of early Rift, in which you essentially just didn't take melee to heroics because it was more hindrance than help. Maybe some of this is more localise to the Jedi Shadow due to its short range abilities and lack of threat modifiers, but it seems as though a lot of the bosses have threat dumps followed by temporary taunt immunity, the tank gets given the ranges threat modifier once knocked back to range and thus loses aggro (again, could be a shadow problem, though I believe Guardians have it a bit too) or that threat mechanics are simply somewhat unstable as they stand (I've tanked in every major MMO since EQ, it's not a case of using the wrong skills. I partake in the theorycrafting and experiential learning). Combined with the bugs, it's just not appealing to play right now.

 

5) Leaving the game until everyone else is 50 and let them do the whining about the problems exposing even more people to nuance that bitter their experience and result in me returning to an empty game. Before you call exageration, I've seen this a lot. First wave of 50s who aren't 'forced' to stay due to their guild will, as someone earlier claimed statistics support, look to another game. This isn't because they're too difficult to please however, it's because they want to have fun and not pay to beta. You realise that internal game testers are paid, right? If you asked any of them to pay for what they do (banging their heads for hours against problems to give detailed enough feedback to the secs to fix it and make it as smooth as possible), whilst also being subjected to flaming from a community who would apparently rather defend the game bitterly and drive away anyone with concerns (exactly what happened on Rift. Works well, right?), you'd have roughly 0 testers.

 

Similarly to the OP, I am thoroughly enjoying the bulk of the game in spite of this. I have my sub firmly active and am very excited to see where this goes. I value my time however, and when a lot of my friends are talking to me about I'll be joining them on D3 and GW2, a connundrum I believe a lot of gamers will be facing, I'd like to have a difficult decision on my hands and not a sigh of relief at leaving behind yet another MMO filled with wasted potential.

 

Let us try and make the game better for when YOU get there.

 

Apologies for any errors or huge paragraphs. I can only comprehend so much of what I'm doing on my iPhone.

[GeLopez]

Another funny bug I ran into last night: http://i.imgur.com/yBLs2.jpg.

 

It's not that serious, but it does have some implications for how broken the PVP queue system seems to be.

[Guildrum]

Or the other option: keep the game in production until it's finished.

 

They said it themselves. MMOs are never finished.

[GeLopez]

Faction made a funny video with some of the raid bugs, which my guild also experienced within one or two nights of raiding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHIWClqr_o. I think the video could help show just how bad of a shape the endgame is in, so I'll edit it into the OP. Edited January 5, 2012 by GeLopez

[HolyDestitute]

90% of SWTOR's active subscriptions will never make it to end game. They honestly don't care about end game elitist cry babies.

 

Casual gamers is what made WoW successful and casual players will make this game successful as well.