Darth_Philar
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Posts posted by Darth_Philar
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So I just got done with a huttball, where I had the ball, was near the enemies line, got stunned for around 6 seconds, getting a full white bar which I cc broke, only to literally be snared until the bar disappeared and get chain stunned AGAIN, than finished off due to being beat on by 4+ people for over 20 seconds without being able to move at all.
Can someone please remind me why immobilize effects work through full resolve?
This is ridiculous.
I can understand the effects not building resolve but christ sake, a team could theoretically keep someone immobilized/stunned forever with the right coordination/timing, would this happen realistically? prolly not but still the fact a group of players can keep someone locked down for SO long with ZERO DR is terribly unbalanced.
Anyone remember frost mages in WoW? yeah it feels like the same unbalanced garbage, CHAIN IMMOBILIZE/SLOW, cant even move or get close.
Let me get this straight, you are arguing that player skill and teamwork is unbalanced?
There are only three reasons I can think of that you would be alone in facing the entire enemy team at their goal line:
1. Your team consisted of you since everyone else quit.
2. Your team consisted of really awful players who were just waiting in the middle for the enemy team to respawn even though their team had the ball.
3. You rushed into the enemy team by yourself and without backup from your team.
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I just go in and kill the lone defender, sometimes 2v1 (But I try to time it so they both die relatively at the same time. Easier when one is guarded).
That's hard to do as a Sorcerer healer lol
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Stat Padders
in PvP
Nope i see it often and these people proclaim themselves great players,i beg to differ i mean i could do the same if i wished to but the way the medal system works it has no benefit really,they do it for the sake of bragging,even saw one say "i always top the chart" i really dont care tbh and hey id rather have someone pushing buttons than being a mouth breather just standing there.Well, you obviously do care to some degree or else you wouldn't have taken the time to come here and post this.
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PVP = player VS player
WZ = player vs player
Thats all it means, whatever deifnition YOU define is your opinion...
WZ = Character versus Character.
You picked a class that has nothing to do with your skill.
You wear armor that has nothing to do with your skill.
You use a spec that has nothing to do with your skill.
The only aspect of Warzones that even remotely relies on the player is the activation of abilities.
Not actual PvP, but good try.
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Stat Padders
in PvP
You know who you are,the guys that save up for big AOE's,the healers who try and squeeze every little heal off even when not needed at turrets etc to pad.I have found that these guys often call themselves the best or better than everyone else and are the most vocal in WZ and General chat.
But here's a little secret,those numbers are very misleading in the grand scheme of Objective WZ's your extra 100k of stat padding does nothing remotely for the group,its just for you to stroke your ego and that's fine, but if you think people dont know,your kidding yourself.
I'm not sure what the point of this is... are you just calling out these so called "stat padders"? If so, why? Who cares?
Also, while I can conceive of obtaining 100k damage through "padding", overheals don't count for healing so outside of sorcerers who damage themselves and then heal themselves back up there isn't really a way to obtain any meaningful "padded" healing numbers.
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There is always at least one of you guys who say "l2p" with everything, if you have nothing productive to say then ****.
To be fair, about 98% of all PvP problems can be resolved by learning to correctly play the class you rolled.
The remaining 2% aren't going to be fixed by complaining on a forum...
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PvP is currently all about gear. You either have the top gear or you fail. Simple as that.
Shouldn't PvP success/fail be about skill instead of gear?
Is this ever going to change or it it working as intended?
You aren't going to find actual PvP (Skill versus Skill) in games that are RPGs because RPGs are all about building your character and making him fight which is kind of the opposite of PvP.
Some games actually try to mitigate the RPG aspects (Guild Wars, for example) and implement something that actually resembles PvP, however the term "PvP" has been thrown around so loosely that everyone fancies themselves a PvP Hero because they were told that they were doing PvP when in fact they were simply doing more PvE (Raiding in Warzones, essentially).
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Sorc can have roots on their knockbacks or as top tier talent in madness tree.
Anyway, as it was offcialy stated - roots and snares are part of the kiting game and thus are not affected by resolve. Your (guardians) functionality in 4-10m range is not so bad, you have 2 ranged damage skills and ability to generate focus without hitting anything. You can spec to have another 10m range skill + you have 10-30m range attack. Because there is virtually not a single class unable to fight while rooted or to defend themselves (by defensive CD, medpacks etc), roots are not part of resolve.
I should also point out that melee classes have equivalent counters to roots and snares (gap closers, purges, immunities, and roots and snares of their own) in order to balance the kiting meta game around player skill and not character class.
If you are going around thinking you should have greater than 50% melee uptime against a skilled range player you are severely mistaken.
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Presenting scenarios of how PvP would pan out is a bit vain since the entire reason I believe we both PvP is due to the chaotic and ever changing events. Nor can I cannot debate specifics, I will say that I would like to see a decrease in the use of Stuns as a tactic. Even if stuns were a couple seconds, more as an extended interrupt or something. I cannot pretend to have the answer, I just know that stuns seem to be a little out of control. However, I would hate to see them make them almost pointless also.
The one thing I believe we can agree on is that we want PvP to be fun and captivating. There is a steady decline in PvPers and much of the reason is Stun/Deaths. There are also thread after thread just like this. It needs to be looked and and refined.
My point was that it is entirely possible to be stunned and killed without ever having control of your character if the cards are stacked against you. However, the CC meta game is not balanced against the worst case scenario, it is balanced for 1v1. Now we can argue as to what is should be balanced against, but my position is that there are only two things necessary to make these CC complaints go away:
1. Remove/Reduce the damage buff from Expertise. PvP gear should increase survivability and nothing else. This will make fights last longer which will make the CC more spread out which will eliminate almost all instances of CC into Death as the DPS output won't be able to pull that off.
2. Refresh the CC Breaker on death. Using your CC Breaker intelligently is the single most important part of the CC meta game, however that choice isn't always available to you if you just respawned and that is a flaw in my opinion.
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This map is a joke and it is poorly designed as voidstar.
1 person can still stop an entire team from assaulting over and over again and the attacking team is ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage in any situation in that map.
I capped a node by myself against a lone enemy defender. It was really easy.
I stunned him, he used his CC Breaker, then I mezzed him and capped the point while he hopelessly spun around in circles.
I laughed pretty hard.
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Pretty much nobody uses the heal with a casting time that consumes an UH/TA if they've the instant heal that consumes the same thing.
If you stop moving as a healer, you're usually dead. A good Op/Scoundrel will very rarely stop moving to even cast their normal heal because like every healer they get smashed when they stand still.
Which is part of the problem with Sorcerers right now. The only heal that can be casted while moving is a HoT with a small up front heal (usually around 1.5k on a crit) or the small heal from the specced purge.
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I agree the OP is obviously exaggerating a bit but I think people are getting too hung up on the literal use of "Chain Stunned" that is thrown out there. Is it any better when you get stunned, run for about 5-6 seconds stunned again and then immediately stunned once more and maybe with a knock-back, slow/root or pull mixed in there? Come on people, the Stunning in this game is out of control. Stop defending it.
Furthermore, the Resolve Bar is boinked. Anyone that denies it needs a reality check. Many times it works incorrectly both ways. I don't know if it is lag or just bugged but it is hardly flawless. So lets all stop flaming each other and help the Devs make better. The exaggerations do not help either.
Absolute worst case CC scenario is as follows:
Assumptions
A. CC Break is on CD
B. You are competing against at least 2 enemy DPS who do 1.5k DPS
C. You do not have a friendly player nearby who can heal you
D. Your Health is less than 21K
Timeline
1. You are stunned by enemy DPS1 for 4 seconds granting you 800 Resolve
2. You take damage for 4 seconds during the stun while DPS1 & 2 beat on you (10.5k Damage Done)
3. You are stunned by enemy DPS2 for 4 seconds granting you 800 resolve plus 400 bonus resolve plus 800 resolve you already had (giving you 2000 resolve)
4. You take damage for 4 seconds during the stun while DPS1 & 2 beat on you (10.5k Damage Done)
5. You are now dead
As for your "Boinked" position, it is true that there are graphical display issues with the Resolve bar on the selection reticle. Please rely on the fully operational Resolve bar next to the character portrait in your UI
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I did not complain, but simply state a fact. Before this post, I have not stated whether I feel CC is too much, too little, or just right. I may have been mistaken on the ability to stack CC prior to going white, but I disagree with ANY implementation that has the white resolve bar diminishing before the effect ends. This means that resolve has ticked down almost half its usefulness over the course of a mez that just barely hits the resolve limit, which is frankly stupid. Outside of that, CC is relatively ok. I wouldn't mind there being slightly fewer CCs to deal with, but as a ranged character I can use LOS and good positioning to mitigate more than a melee would, and I haven't had a terrible experience.
When you add the boost to expertise damage in 1.2 on top of this diminishing white bar during CC, I can completely understand why some people are getting frustrated. I have seen people with an empty resolve bar "Resist" stuns (and they hadn't been ticking down a white bar prior, so I didn't hit the tail end of an immune state). I have also seen myself receive the benefit of stuns while I had full resolve. I would guess that in both instances latency is a big issue (though usually my ping is in the 16-30ms range, sometimes it spikes up). Either way, that part of the problem is not working as intended.
If they fix the bugs with resolve and modify white resolve to only diminish after the CC ends, I'll be fine with keeping everything else the same.
The White Resolve decline promotes intelligent use of the CC Breaker (i.e. if you break that first stun you are forced to eat the mezz and lose 8 seconds of your Resolve Immunity). Of course, you can't intelligently use your CC Breaker if it is on CD which is why I do think it needs to refresh on death. However, let's not forget that Mezzes can be purged so if you find yourself eating a lot of them you should be yelling at your team, not Bioware. This is after all an objective-based team game, not a combination of Halo and Rambo.
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Let me break down the concept of healing balance for you:
1 DPS versus 1 Healer
DPS: x - y = 0
Healer: y - x = 0
(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed)
This ends in a stalemate (if the healer stops to DPS at all he will fall behind on y and will die).
If x>y then the healer is useless. Likewise if x<y then the healer is OP.
1 DPS versus 1 Healer and 1 DPS (i.e. 1v2)
DPS: x - y = 0
Healer: y - x + z = z
(x = Damage Done, y = Damage Healed, z = Healer's Team DPS)
This results in the solo DPS losing while doing no effective damage as it is completely mitigated by the healer. Even if he switches targets or focuses one or the other the solo cannot out DPS the Healer by himself and he therefore succumbs to the DPS of the Healer's friend.
1 Healer should always completely mitigate 1 DPS, and 1 DPS should always mitigate 1 Healer.
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Resolve is working correctly, the problem is not with CCs and Resolve.
The problem is, as you mentioned, the completely out of whack TTK.
Methinks that BW did all of their balancing around Ranked War Hero gear levels and those didn't translate well to lower level gear tiers.
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or better yet, ditch this POS system and run a dimishing returns for stuns, mezz, and root. cant even remember how many times i've been double stunned from having just used my cc breaker before death the last time. have to stay stunned for 8 seconds(or more), and then get rooted twice or three times right after that..
fun times in swtor
especially when the last fun time i gave someone. me and another assassin were defending a node on alderaan.. we had 2 incoming... i ran out. cc'd the first guy with mind trap. the second still rushed in, got killed. and then the guy who just got mind trapped. picked up a instant whirlwind for 8 more second. and then to top it off. he bit another 2 second stun AFTER that because of the spec into whirlwind. and then for ***** and giggles while he was still losing resolve after eating that 10 second mezz, me and the other assassin chain rooted him until his resolve fell and then double stunned him again.. im sure he was pissed off. but its easy to do when someone has just used their cc break last death and is forced to eat every single stun that comes at them because resolve only lasts so long and roots don't affect it at all.
fun times in alderaan
oh right..... working as intended !
Quite possibly the first time I've ever seen QQ about WINNING a 2v1 situation when a person was on the side with 2...
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I have noticed with the 4-second stun, that the target's resolve meter starts dropping while the stun is active, so if timed properly, you can get a 4-second stun and 2 mezzes to trigger before the resolve bar stacks. This requires you to give the player a little less than 1 second after the stun and first mez wears off for the bar to drop.
I haven't done a lot of pvp lately, so I don't know if this issue has been fixed. But definitely, you should not lose resolve while in the middle of a stun or mez. The resolve meter should not start dropping until the effect has been removed. That should be the first fix, because it should be the easiest to implement.
After that, they need to figure out why resolve is working in some cases and not another (sometimes resolve doesn't prevent a mez or stun. More likely with high latency)
Look here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=390716
While Purple, Resolve does not decline while the CC is active and starts declining at a rate of 25 points per second once the CC is over.
While White, Resolve declines immediately at a rate of 100 points per second.
If you wanted to stun/mezz/stun an enemy player you would need to do this:
1. Use your stun granting him 800 resolve
2. Wait 4 seconds for Stun to wear off. His resolve is still 800 but now in decline
3. Wait 25 seconds for his resolve to decline to 175 and use your mezz. His resolve is now 975
4. Wait 8 seconds for the Mezz to wear off. His resolve is still 975 but is now in decline.
5. Wait 32 seconds for his resolve to decline to 175 and then stun again.
I.E. You would need to wait a total of 69 seconds in order to CC an enemy for 16 seconds. It makes much more sense to simply Stun for 4 then Mezz for 8 gaining 12 seconds of CC and giving him 20 seconds of immunity.
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PvP stats (or PvP gear in general) exist for two reasons:
1. To prevent high end PvE players from having statistical dominance over players who only PvP.
2. To incentivize PvE players to queue, shortening queue times.
You see, PvPers actually don't like gear progression because it creates an uneven playing field. PvP is all about testing your skill against the skill of others. PvE is all about tipping the numbers in your favor until you are able to succeed. Since the two are very incompatible, we get horrible abberations of nature when they try to combine them.
Real PvP doesn't actually exist in most MMOs. Instead we have Raiding against AI and Raiding against other players. They are both actually PvE.
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Even if 16 seconds was the maximum, it's still too long - and taking damage definately does not break it.
If you think otherwise, talk to the people I Harpoon into flame pits and Cryo Grenade.
Tell it anybody who gets stunned and killed by an Operative or Scoundrel before the stun wears off.
Tell them how damage breaks CC and see how long it takes before they punch you in the face.
Stuns last no more than 4 seconds.
Mezzes last no more than 8 seconds and immediately break on damage.
Any combination of 2 of those effects will result in CC immunity.
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Just took a stopwatch and timed it. 20 consecutive seconds where I could literally do nothing.
Get rid of this broken chain CC. The PVP in this game is enough of a joke as it is. It's bad enough I can never use my weak CC when I need to because everyone is mysteriously immune to CC whenever I need to use it, but I'm sitting here for 20 seconds CCed.
This statement is patently, provably false. The absolute maximum amount of time that you can be completely out of control is 16 seconds, and that assumes you are facing two enemy players who have their mezzes available, you do not have your CC Breaker available, and no enemy player attacks you for the entire duration.
don't worry, that troll doesn't even know that operative have a free stun that doesn't affect Resolve at all. (knockdown, animation keeps you from doing anything), but knockdowns that force you to run an animation are not stuns and shouldn't affect resolve per bioware. working as intended for operatives at biowareThis is also patently, provably false. All knockdowns add to Resolve and Resolve Immunity prevents knockdowns.
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I agree 100%, who the hell thought knockback, stun, knockback/root, break, stun and slowed 75% of the time is fun?
Just Remove ALL stuns/knockbacks and slows from the game and selectively give them as via the skill tree and 1 per tree, so tree A gets a stun, tree B gets a knockback, tree C gets a slow.
They're simply not fun for anyone in PVP, so whats the point?
We would also need to remove all the gap closers like Force Jump and intercede and remove all those pesky interrupts in order to balance it out.
CC and Kiting are parts of the game. You either learn how to use them to your advantage or you complain about them on the forums. Kiting is required in order to balance the melee versus ranged meta game and CC is required in all objective based PvP.
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Jesus, how this is up for debate is not even comprehensible to me.
I sport +21%, 17% dmg reduction as a DPS.
I'm fairly good at PvP, so when I get on a healer (full BM/war hero), I might not kill him, but he will be forced to do nothing but keep his own butt alive.
Now take that same healer without PvP gear. I blew air on him and he exploded. Good teams have healers marked, and any 2 DPS of any class worth their 2 cents will massacre a healer in the span of 3 seconds if they dont have PvP gear. Even peeling and guarding wont save you, the amount of dmg is just that big.
When 2 DPS are lining 4-5k crits every GCD on someone, that person doest have long to live and is barely an obstacle.
Not dying in 2 seconds in PvP aint a luxury, its a necessity, and PvE gear doesnt give you that.
And since Recruit changes that 2 seconds into 2.1 seconds, the increased healing from PvE gear is statistically superior to survivability. Battlemaster is close to a wash. It is only once you reach War Hero tier is the Expertise boost enough to actually force you to wear any PvP gear at all.
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You haven't played much premade vs premade games right? Survivability is EVERYTHING for a healer. Escpecially a sorc in light armor. The second the intercede and taunt wears off you will be eating 3-4k crits trough guard and die in seconds.
Again, if your team doesn't have the skill to keep you alive, then you need to stack Expertise at the expense of keeping them alive. If they do have the skill to keep you alive, then you can find the balance of HPS and Survivability that you feel safest with.
It is a team effort to protect a healer. If you don't have the team to do it, then you don't do it. Simple as that.
My team is built around protecting the healer and it works for us. It takes practice and skill, but it is viable for completing objective based PvP, which is what we have.
Feel free to believe otherwise, I'll keep doing what works for me and you'll keep complaining about the undergeared players on your team.
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Crowd control are abilities that remove control of your character temporarily. The 8s AOE sleeps for example can ruin your day if you don't have your trinket up and nobody hits you. They don't full resolve bar you and you can actually be double sleeped back to back.
Bioware defines loss of control as "unable to use abilities" and therefore does not consider Roots or Snares to be CCs.
The Mezzes are working as intended, require two people to execute, and as you mentioned require you to be undamaged for the entire 9-16 seconds for it to be successful (if your CC Break is available, you can get out of the second one). It sucks to be daisy-chained like that, but the other team had to commit quite a bit in order to lock you out.
Plan to fix Resolve?
in PvP
Posted
Two points:
First, your anecdotes are pretty useless when compared to actual testing that shows Resolve is working exactly as Bioware intends it to work.
Second, your statement about being stunned for 20+ seconds in a row is either an intentional misrepresentation, a hyperbolic indicator of ignorance, or a misunderstanding of what a "stun" actually is.