Xcore
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I also am not getting any delay when playing. If you look at the videos some people are obviously have issues, and it is inappropriate to call them liars. If you would like to be helpful, please put down what server and class you are playing, and if you generally play on peak hours or off.
You need to stop.... you have "absolutely" no idea or grasp of the problem, your "troubleshooting" is a complete miss since the very first post. I can appreciate your attempt to "help" but you need to study the issue you're trying to solve first.
Please see my previous post to you, you cannot compile a "list" of abilities that fail and start your troubleshooting to a solution. That is a gross misconception of the entire problem.
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Can you give an example of a combo that is consistently an issue?
You're going the wrong way about this, you don't comprehend the issue you're trying to solve. You cannot properly troubleshoot this without understanding the issues at hand first.
Please re-read Thread 1-3 as well as the videos in the OP.
I will do you a favor and let you know that this responsiveness isn't related to Servers/Personal Systems or Individual Abilities or Rotations/Combinations. Literally, every single ability and combination is affected by this - as well as every player on every server.
Once you wrap your mind around that:
It is "highly" noticeable on certain abilities and combinations, less noticeable on others and not at all noticeable on some (though technically it is still there, just masked perfectly).
Its a simple (not really "simple) coding flaw, game/combat design flaw, engine limitation or engine coding flaw.
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Rating, as usual... Round 4... we've had over 150 ratings with an average of 5 stars...
1) 4th Incarnation of Thread
2) 4,000+ Replies
3) 400 Pages
4) 200,000+ Views
5) 1x Vague BW Response... (Thread 2, Page 123 -- Also in OP)
I believe the above proves Bioware's inability to run an MMO.
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OP Updated
btw, that CSR response at the end of Thread 3 is ridiculous... if that was real, holy ****. Lack of Bioware Official Communication only further leads to the confusion over something like that.
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I had just got done telling some dude on mmorpg.com that was having a hard time getting him self aroused to log back into this game what makes me want to log into it all the time, I told him the combat cause I loved how silky smooth it was for my Jedi Knight.
Its one of those things to me, Iv been playing mmos since meridian 59 and underlight which I still do, but I own mostly just mmos. My latest being WOW, Rift, SWG, Warhammer online, and Aion plus tons others like eve, lotro,DDO, just about every mmo you can think of, I also played a bit of everquest when it first released. What I was saying though, with this game is even though there are a few iffy moments in combat, the game will change with time, its not always going to stay like that. I mean who can tell the difference between all the player resistances to which skills any way plus you cant expect the thousands of skills bioware has made to work flawlessly in there first week, I dont know exactly but to me it didnt bother me really.
Iv put in 40 hours so far, which isnt much but Iv enjoyed it alot, and look forward to loging back in every time I play. Maybee look more at enjoying logging into the game then its downfalls for now untill the dust settles for SWTOR to some degree.
There is no way of putting it nicely, you simply don't know what you are talking about in relation to what this thread is discussing. I hope you continue to enjoy SW:TOR.
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Exactly.
What's so odd though (to be nice) is how this not only got through the ENTIRE beta, but how it even got through development!
Georg (think I'm spelling that right), couldn't have leaned back in his massage chair at work, looked at this, and thought "Yes, perfect; this is exactly as fluid as combat needs to be!"
He could, very possibly have done just that. Imagine the entire development focus being on immersion (or thinking it anyways -- not realizing that this feeling of responsiveness is a major part of immersion).
What if Georg and his team were instructed to "perfect" immersion? What if they were told, "Hey, WoW is good and all but look at how the swords don't touch!! -- We need to make Lightsabers touch!!" What if their entire focus was misguided in this or similar fashion?
NOW ADD TO THAT
A seemingly casual *** development team, none of them likely have ever killed a Boss encounter on heroic while it was relevant. Furthermore, I have serious doubts that any of the team have any credible credentials in PvP (CS:S, SC2, WC3, WoW Arena etc.).
I am almost completely convinced that the Bioware Dev. Team is put together by incredibly casual people who are out of touch with the more "high up" things in MMO Gaming. Both Blizzard (especially), ArenaNet, Trion, have some pretty serious gamers in their ranks -- and I don't mean "pretty serious RPers".
CONCLUSION
I believe there was way too much "Back-patting" being done at the "amazing" success that Lightsabers "touch" in combat and deflect blasters etc. to notice something like the lack of responsiveness.
There was simply no-one around to say: "Umm, guys, this is garbage... why is this so clunky?"
They believe their PvP to be amazing, and balanced! You know why? because it is! -- It balances a Top Player (Professional even) with a complete novice to MMO Gaming. Anyone can really kill anyone in this system, personal "skill" is rather made ineffective. I think Bioware was deluded by this a little?
Once again, I would love nothing more than a Bioware employee to correct all of the above, until that time... I can simply analyze and draw conclusions.
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I really hope that the Developers (and people in charge generally) did not in fact go on a holiday after release. Or rather, I hope they have not been on holidays for the past week through which this discussion evolved.
I would actually rather they kept up and read the pages silently while trying to work than come back to work tomorrow and some clerk says, "Oh how was your vacation? there is some little thing on the forums but its nothing I think. Get back to balancing Sith Inquisitors"...
I haven't really said this but for me its starting to be "Make or Break" pretty soon, simply due to lack of communication. No MMO Gamer wants to "waste" their Time/Money without some confidence in future stability. This is what WoW does very well, I can confidently play and invest time into my character fully knowing that WoW will still be playable and decent (at the very least) in 3 years.
I cannot have that same confidence in this product, the silent treatment that Bioware/EA give us, does not help alleviate this.
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I agree that this problem needs to be addressed but some of your "facts" are disturbing. I believe you have single handedly taken internet forums to an all time low.
Congratulations . . . . i guess.
Don't mistake the rudeness or harshness with being wrong. I actually see nothing but truth in his post... again, very harsh truth that a lot will be offended by but nothing but truth.
You don't have to agree with the methods but the evidence and logic do speak for themselves.
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Im simply saying it's counterproductive to be saying "I can honestly say, most of you nay say bunch... well you are slow" which clearly is saying he is superior to everyone when 99% of the posts are agreeing there is a problem present.
The thing is, I don't necessarily disagree with his statement at all...
"I can honestly say, most of you nay say bunch... well you are slow"This is the crux, the reason the "nay sayers" are "nay saying". I agree with you completely, it isn't overly (or at all) constructive and certainly not nice... but hey, at some point taking a nice hard, cold splash of water to the face wakes one up.
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Apparently not, Xcore. Because here we are, 1 week later, 400 pages, and, what.. 4000 or more replies in total, multiple videos, and tons of hours of effort by you alone?
And the most we've gotten is, 'Lollers, we're looking into it!'
Holy s*** it's been a week... this is now even more disappointing (no proper communication). Perhaps this entire thread is a bit too strongly worded, and too many "Hardcore" meanies have joined the discussion. Opinions getting too heated?
I can see Bioware shying away from things like that, they do appear incredibly "casual". I may of course be completely wrong (and I hope I am) but this is my firm perception until something of validity changes it.
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He called everyone slow, and everyone includes you.
Did he? I thought he called the other poster who was disputing that there is a delay or responsiveness issue slow?
Also, I have no problem admitting that I must be slower (more likely than not) than a lot of Top PvP Players (Arena Gladiators and High Ranks) as well as (and especially) Professional Gamers.
There is nothing wrong with saying that you're slower than better players... much like saying that you're slower than Professional Runners etc.
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Well, he is blindly assuming everyone here has no MMO experience. Notice how in the post he says his guild uber yet never mentions his personal skill lmao.
I just read his post, it says that he is in a guild of experienced MMO players, many of which have high ranking arena credentials. He then states that they're all experiencing this problem we discuss.
I have no problem with that statement unless I failed to comprehend something or misunderstood.
Edit: If you believe him stating that the other poster is likely too slow to realize this delay/responsiveness issue. Well right, its not necessarily "nice" to point this out but I do wager that is the truth, seeing as how there is some correlation there over the past 3 threads.
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Sorry if i missed this, I skimmed over this thread looking.
Is there any update on what causes this to happen? I have this issue and playing on a friends system earlier today I wasn't getting it at all and i'm trying to find out why.
Not sure if you're then experiencing the issue we're discussing for the past three threads. You problem initially sounds like a system issue relating to lag, to be quite honest.
I would urge you to watch the videos in the OP as well a read the entire OP. Then go ahead and skim through Thread 1-2 and parts of 3 to maybe pinpoint if you're really perceiving the Delay and Responsiveness issue we discuss or if its just a technical problem.
Keep in mind, the issues discussed here are universal to "all" who play the game, its a general issue. There is no-one who isn't affected by it, only people who aren't "perceiving it" (able to perceive it).
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This issue is gamebreaking for me. I love the concept of this game and I've been waiting for something to drag me away from WoW for years. However, I spend more time on the forums reading about this issue than I spend in game. I can play for about two hours before I get so flustered by the "disconnect" I feel regarding responsiveness before I log in dissapointment.
I appreciate the the OP and the efforts he/she has made trying to clarify this issue. I'll link it in the PvP forums where it is still being debated - where many simply deny its existance. It's pretty infuriating and is a bone of contention between "hardcare" pvp'rs and the "casuals"... although it shouldn't be.
Most definitely "he"... thank you
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That's not very nice
Its true, it doesn't have to be nice... being nice means nothing when it takes away the truth.
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I'd just like to point out that WoW played the same way it does today 8 years ago. Just look at PvP videos of that time period. Smooth, seamless gameplay. Maybe there were balance issues, but those are always present. At least the game was fun and not laggy. This is a single-player game.
Also, I don't know how anyone expects to be taken seriously when they pretend like they don't see the delay. I especially don't know how anyone can take you seriously if you actually don't see it.
Everything said in this above quote is basically true... low APM players really need to re-evaluate their positions. Even if you don't "notice" an issue, the resolution of this issue will increase your enjoyment (at the very least keep it the same).
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I hope BioWare realizes the grandeur of this game flaw. I would love to play this game until GW2 comes out, and even past then, but with the combat the way it is I can't imagine grinding warzones and trying to be competitive in PvP in this game. Hope they fix it soon.
I don't believe some people really realize the grandeur, this is sad but understandable. If people would just really wrap their minds around "how" big this is. I'm not sure it can be spelled out to really drive home that effect.
1) This single topic is the #1 reason WoW has endured for this long as well as steadily grown until recently, even in the face of stiff market competition.
2) This single topic is the #1 reason people quit new MMOs and go back to WoW.
Perhaps a purist will say thats just an opinion, thats fine... I don't really care about that. I just wish one would realize the gravity of the two points above. Does any freaking developer not realize this? I mean if you can get your development in order to smooth this one thing out, you are sitting on the biggest cash cow since WoW basically.
Once again, purist and contrarian's will generally just say something along the lines of this not being a fact and merely opinion and such. Doesn't really matter... history does have its way of repeating, I just hope it doesn't in this case.
The best thing we can do with this thread is drive home just "how" important this issue really is to SW:TOR, WoW, MMO Development as a whole. The best accomplishment possible is the break in the chain of sub-par MMO Development and this generation of mediocre MMOs.
In the end though, no matter what any of us do... we'll all be playing Titan because Blizzard "is" that good. <-- FACT... (just to annoy)
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With the 4th version of this thread approaching, I'd like to point out that for the past few pages we've been arguing semantics. Which is not bad, it helps put things in perspective but as long as we all agree of the obvious flaws in the current combat design/mechanics.
We should carry on discussing the actual issue? I do believe Georg and the Team follow this line of threads page by page. As strongly as I do word my replies at times, I am really just trying to help the game and Georg (even if a few pages back I questioned his Talents indirectly).
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I'm not disagreeing with the problem you are trying to present, or - as someone who's played at a similar level to you *studied signature* - the heavy implications of the problem. It does need to be fixed, and it needs to be fixed sooner rather than later.
I don't think that formatting/wording/presentation matter so much. I do however think that, being as flagrant in the way you present the problem as you were, much more can be taken away from your OP than needs to be taken away, which risks ruining the context and meaning behind the post. As someone who clearly understands the English language to an "above average" degree, you must accept that the nuances can (and will) alter the perception of what you are saying. Simple wording can make a problem seem far bigger or far smaller than it actually is. I fear in this instance it is inflated.
And as an aside, I think your choice of countries was... unfortunate... considering current tensions
As a metaphor... I fear it doesn't really work too well ;P Enough of the current affairs however.Hey, I chose the countries specifically for those tensions. Or have Israel and Iran reconciled without me knowing? Must I read more BBC than I already do? I took a few days off.
No, I don't disagree... I am being flamboyant perhaps and I am using "strong language". No problems there, not disagreeing. Thats a fine contention and it is simply because I feel "that" strongly about the issue at hand.
You may believe its an issue "but not necessarily as big of a deal as I make it out to be". That is fine, as long as it gets resolved. I am happy with the accomplishment of three threads and likely 4,000+ Replies with 200,000+ Views. The goal of raising awareness to this issue has been accomplished and it needs to continue. Until it is properly addressed.
Bioware deserves absolutely ZERO slack until then. To give them any slack would be a gross disservice to SW:TOR, Bioware and mostly importantly the MMO Genre.
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Explicit off-topic: have you read a book by Richard Dawkins?
Yes, several
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Did you just say that finding a bunny fossil in the Cretaceous is easy? Because that's what it seems like you're trying to say.
No, I am trying to say that its easy to disprove evolution by doing so... doing so is not easy, in fact I would say impossible... thus evolution is a Scientific Theory (Truth) much like the Theory of Gravitational Forces etc
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Yeah...that attitude you can save for a place where you have an actual say, not here.
PS: how is that proof coming along? Do try to read my original question again and answer it this time?
What proof? I mean seriously, what proof do you need? Video proof is all over 3 threads...
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The irony of your point here should not be lost on someone as advanced as you seem to be.
At no point have I said you were WRONG. What I have said, very carefully, is that the problem you make out is a gross inflation of the problem that exists. I'm entirely open to the idea that I may be missing something, however through my own experience as well as the experience of my guild mates (some of which are former members of guilds such as Method, Apathy, Third Realm Alliance, etc (including myself) as well as former World Champion FPS players) the problem ISN'T as pronounced as you make out and the detrimental impact it is having on the player base ISN'T as "doom and gloom" as you peddle. We've discussed it endlessly in person, on TS, on our forums, and we emphatically disagree with your exaggerations.
You may continue prostrating now.
Ok, if you disagree with the exaggeration or the formatting/wording/presentation... that is fine and I have absolutely no care for that. All that matters is that this "objective" problem gets resolved... I "personally" believe this to be a heavy enough problem, so much so that I don't see anything as exaggeration.
This issue in my view is the reason Rift/LotRO and any other Post-WoW MMO didn't achieve their full potential and successes. Furthermore I believe this to be the #1 reason why WoW is at the point that it is. In this case, I don't see it as an exaggeration...
So, as long as you recognize the issue, I am perfectly fine with you. If you believe that there is "no issue" or that "only some have it and you do not" then we are at a point of disagreement to which no parallel can be drawn. You might as well declare yourself "Israel" at which point I'll be forced to be "Iran". Please don't force that on me
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You mean that I should get on board with the spirit behind the thread if I agree with the merits of the argument and NOT disagree with people who I feel are making inaccurate statements? Your mindset says if you believe in a politician you help him steal the election cause it'll turn out better anyway.
No my point was in direct reply to the person whom I was quoting. As I said I was not contesting the merits of whether it was a problem or not. I was arguing that his 'logic' was not in fact correct as he represented it and I felt that his condescending delivery of it deserved a carefully argued rebuke.
As for my view on the issue I don't know if its a real problem. I have no sense myself that it is when I play but that doesn't mean that it isn't. I can't know how many feel its like this, I never played WoW so I have no frame of reference for judging it other than to basically accept the arguments of those who are already obviously biased in favour of it.
Simply I don't have the MMO experience to be able to throw in with a broader argument about the quality or health of this game in relation to this issue. All I can do is judge my own enjoyment and feeling about the gameplay and so far its not been an issue for me at all. I'm staying on the fence here and only replying to those who I feel are doing the thread a disservice through poor argument or arrogance.
@Xcore
Glad we can respect each other after that exchange.
Again, I have nothing to contest or argue about with you. You have my respect and you are right with your first response to me in regards of the statistical facts etc.
I should add that those are really not what concerns me and discussing this would surely be interesting but derail this thread and an important issue.
Again, I am in no disagreement. I apologize if I come off strong at times, it is merely driven by frustration and passion but I fully realize that I can be very condescending. This is likely due to my now low tolerance to this subject as well as naturally sarcastic nature.
Truly though, thank you
As a metaphor... I fear it doesn't really work too well ;P Enough of the current affairs however.
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)
in General Discussion
Posted
You have no idea what you're talking about... because apparently I contribute to that 1.5 Million as I have an active subscription? Well, actually I am not enjoying it... at all...
Aside this little detail which brings your entire post crumbling down, the rest is just as flawed in logic.
The BDF surely requires its little Drone somewhere else -- Try DA2 or ME3 Forums...?