Xcore
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As I posted here(which nobody saw because it was off the first page in less than 30 seconds): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801 AND earlier in this thread (which apparently no one reads).
There is no ability delay. You are experiencing delay because the 'ability action queue window' isn't working right and you're hitting the button early. Stop hitting the button early and there's no delay, or set it to 1.0 and hit it earlier to minimize the delay.
I don't believe you have a firm enough grasp on the issue to make the claims and statements that you do in your thread.
I urge you to re-evaluate your position.
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No sorry, if you don't see the ability delay you are either slow or totally clueless as to what people are explaining. and no oh don't mash buttons or get your timing right lines from the BDF is going to change this fact.
Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.
Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!
Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.
But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?
Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.
Adding your video to OP...
Thank You
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Just wanted to chime in again, I've been reading and following. I believe I'm mostly over my post-traumatic stress syndrome and able to contribute once more.
Keep up the pressure on this issue, I am surprised by the large following this has (in the thousands) as well as newcomers (Welcome) still daily in this thread even in it's 4th version!
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As the guy who started this thread I am surprised you lowered yourself to this type of rhetoric. If you want Bioware to take you seriously then you should stop.
I for one would like this problem to be taken seriously. You, as the thread starter, have damaged your own cause. Please stop.
Right, if you've followed my posts from the very OP you'll have noticed a degradation of my demeanor.
You are completely right with the above: (Therefore)
1) I will no longer be posting or replying regarding this issue
2) I will continue to observe/read
3) I will continue to update the OP as needed (more contributions are made)
I am exhausted and done, sorry for those who care, rejoice for those are happy by this news. I have seriously tried from the OP all the way through 4 threads to raise awareness to this in a very nice and supportive/constructive way -- through passionate and frustration driven ways -- all the way down to angry/bitter/spiteful/hateful ways.
Right now, there is simply nothing left that I can offer to attempt to get this fixed or help.
I don't really care if I am labelled the good guy, bad guy or something in between for all this. I just want this problem taken serious, looked at, fixed so that we "ALL" can be playing the best MMO on the market.
P.S.: I even tried calling Bioware Austin for those who don't remember (Thread 1-2) to help them out (Constructively).
P.P.S.: Georg/Dev Team, I hope that you can overlook my more recent posts and rants and take this issue very serious as I and many continue to believe this to be the #1 problem with SW:TOR and the MMO Genre in general.
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Updated OP
Link to ArenaNet's Blog regarding this subject: http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-year-end-development-update#more-6955
Link to Diagram: http://i.imgur.com/oGeam.png
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Well your problem is it is an instant spell, and you have mistaken the word instant to mean instant. You see,if you press a button during an animation, you will be punished by bioware with lag and unresponsive controls.
If you press an instant button, then try to do something when the GCD winds down, and the animation is still playing, you will be punished by bioware.
If you want to play biowares game, adapt to watching animations, and forget all you thought you knew about GCD's and instant spells, or the punishment will continue.
Reading this while driving home, I lol'd hard.
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Rated, 5...
Also, this deserves more time on page 1...
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My opinion is: accept the combat system for what it is, cause it is working as intended, or quit. I have quit PVP, and if the end game PVE is not balanced for this slow paced combat system,or it is not fun with the slowpaced combat, then I will cancel my sub, pretend this was a fun single player RPG and call it a day.
seriously, you think they never played the game during all of alpha/beta testing? You think they did not notice all the tetsers complaining about exactly the same issues you brought up?
Actually I do think so. I think that Bioware and EA were "far" too busy patting each others backs to properly realize anything. Furthermore, I stated previously, I am "firmly" convinced that Bioware has no experienced/hardcore Raiders or PvPers. They're a bunch of casuals, probably completely terrible and fairly ****-hurt that they couldn't do **** in WoW (kicked out of groups, months behind content, clicking in PvP etc.).
There was no-one around to notice... much like the Theory of Evolution is very predictable (you'd expect exactly the results etc) so is this outcome of SW:TOR predictable.
This is exactly the kind of MMO Combat you would expect from a "terrible" player. How did it slip through the cracks? Simple, they were too ****, too slow (APM) - low response time to notice.
Edit: Hey, at least they made sure I can **** my pet and dress it like slave girl...
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If you are pressing any button during an animation, you are going against bioware's intended combat system, and bioware punishes you with lag and unresponsive controls.
You punish a child to alter their behavior, bioware is punishing the playerbase to alter their playstyle.
Working as intended.
I think it is pretty clear by their vague responses that the playerbase better get inline, or go play a different game.
lol, we'd get along great
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What part of my post did you not understand? I am not discussing how an MMORPG should be, I am telling you factually how this game is.
Do you think bioware made it through all testing phases of the game and was completely oblivious to how their own combat controls worked. That is a joke, I am certain bioware read beta testers posts, and tried the game themselves.
The combat in this game is working as intended, nice and slow paced, animation/ turn based
I agree with your sentiment BUT let's look behind the scenes, good sir.
1) You used to argue more along the side of how idiotic this combat system is.
2) Now you appear to argue simply your assumption that the system is working as Intended and nothing Is actually flawed (inherently).
My guess is that over the course of 4 threads the constant need to defend the values of the thread and established facts... you have gone insane. Of course, a lack of proper Bioware response has sped up your condition... further proof of my statement of poor playerbase relations.
3) So now you argue that this horrendous combat delay is in fact intended. Thus making it appear that you side with the *******. However, what you are actually doing is making Bioware look even more incompetent and also confusing the gullible and infantile BDF.
Bravo sir.
I should add that my analysis of you is aided by my own condition. I too have gone mad over the course of the past 4 threads for reasons listed above. Only my symptoms and condition lead me to become violently angry and spiteful. Not only have I hurt or killed many a fluffy animal but also one can note my progression of animosity towards Bioware.
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I think people just need to figure out the timing of the game and stop mashing buttons.
I thought you guys died out in thread 2.... fascinating.
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You know...I hear on one side, WoW was perfect at launch, and then I hear people that say WoW suffered from a similar problem at first
So what one is it?
If WoW experienced a similar problem but was able to fix it, then I'm afraid it would they would have to mimic WoW's combat..Maybe not...But it does give hope that there is a remedy...
I will tell you this with my experience of playing wow for almost 6 years is I would occassionally get the "no response" when hitting a button which had me spamming my frostbolts all the time to make sure they went off directly after the last cast...And a lot of times my caster wouldnt be in sync, but I will say that did not effect the time of the cast
Don't listen to uninformed *****. WoW had a horrible launch, arguably because for the time it was expected. However, the core gameplay responsiveness and issues discussed here were never an issue. They're confusing the issues...
Anyone claiming WoW had these issues at launch is equally as blind as the one claiming it had a "good" launch.
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When was the last time you read the first post? There is no such list that I am asking for.
Believe it or not, I dont a abide by your will. I should say also, what's with the insecurity of WoW comparisons? Market leader, WoW... this particular topic has been nailed by blizzard the best, it shall be compared. If it cannot hold its ground, that is not my fault.
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With as many assumptions as you've thrown around, assume it's getting fixed.
There - now you can move on with your life and stop moderating this thread 24/7
Why do you assume my life is at a standstill? How difficult is it for am official to throw us a couple of lines? It'd take about 30sec-5min and have great effect. No ETA is necessary.
I have no idea why you defend a company, game or flaws so strongly... you should perhaps move with your life?
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Did you REALLY just play that card?
Can you really expect Bioware to cater to and anticipate your mental state and need for quick validation?
They will handle this and if you are lucky they will share details with you.
Relax guy.
Why should I consider myself lucky? How about Bioware realizes the gravity of this topic and considers itself lucky that so many people contributed so greatly to bring this to their attention?
Also, Bioware at no point said anything will be fixed. We have no idea what their stance is.
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Your in game ping is like Verizons phone signals. They're padded to show something better than what you're actually getting.
Ever notice how smooth the game runs with the UI off? Can't do anything but rick click and left click but yeah....hero engine is trash.
Not displaying the actual ping is also very upsetting as well as targeting and camera. A little off topic but yea... hope we get more color variations on the slave bikini next patch. It's a real issue.
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Refresh my memory - which buffs are actually defensive? 5% endurance increase? If you wiped because your tank died and 5% endurance was the difference between win and loss - then you didn't deserve the win.
Yes, wipes have happened for a lot less. I merely gave you a real-world and plausible example to your question. Stop trying to defend obvious flaws...
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Great post, congratulations to the OP on (I dare say) the best and most valuable post I have ever seen on swtor.com (pre and post wipe).
Thank you for the read, very accurate and insightful.
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Instant cast means when it casts - its instant, so no cast bar, so no need to stand still while casting it. Does it say "as soon as you press this button the buff is applied and the animation following it is just for show" in the tooltip? It still fits the description for "instant cast". The buff lining up with the animation is broken how exactly? Can you still use another ability immediately after the invoked GCD is over?
If you are pressing a button and committing 1.5 seconds of GCD - then explain how it matters if the damage/buff is applied in the beginning or the end of the 1.5 seconds - since you keep the beneficial mobility associated with the "instant" portion of the ability.
Sure it matters: everything matters (Blizzard focuses on such details in fact)
1) You're racing for World First on X Boss
2) This is 4 night of attempts, 300 wipes so far
3) Phase 4, 12 minutes in, enrages timer any second now. He's at 2%...
4) Your MT dies, not yet enraged Boss. You've never gotten this far! (no-one has)
5) You battlerez him during combat instantly (well...delay but w/e) because you're amazing!
6) He gets up without any buffs, taunts the boss back onto himself as to not wipe the raid due to the boss' frontal AOE breath.
7) Raid obviously needs to quickly rebuff their MT.
8) However due to animation delay on the Instant cast buffs, tank dies instantly.
9) You throw your keyboard through your fishtank - fish flopping everywhere now.
10) In rage, you punch your $300+ monitor, it is now broken.
11) You rage on Vent, calling everyone a f***** and blame the healers
12) 8 min have passed... You're bleeding and the fish are dead and you regret the monitor ordeal.
13) Anonymous hops on your vent channel, "Hey guys, X guild just downed X boss!, trolololol"
14) You quit SW:TOR
My point is - ZERO POINT FIVE SECONDS IS A ******* LONG TIME
Hey, are you a Bioware developer by any chance?
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First, I agree with the core subject of these threads and there's nothing I can add that hasn't already been said. I've experienced the ability delays during beta and release and I'd like to see them fixed for all classes.
However, your statement that all you see is indifference and incompetence caught my eye. I work for a major software company and have a better understanding of how decisions are made on the inside than most.
In general, the designers, developers, and, more importantly, the project managers, aren't necessarily indifferent to their customer base, but development schedules are planned weeks and months ahead of time and unless the bug is catastrophic (i.e. like a forgotten time bomb held over from beta that unexpectedly locks everyone out simultaneously) the development team will focus on their milestones and pencil in feature changes and bug fixes to future milestones.
No v1 software is ever fully baked. Sales and marketing set the release schedule, not the developers. To get v1 out the door, some key features are always pushed back to the next release because they just aren't stable enough and need more time. It's the nature of the beast. In my experience, v3 is usually what the developers intended v1 to be.
As Bioware alluded to, bug fixes are never simple. A fix here has a cascading effect on other aspects of the application and all of that has to be mapped out, spec'd, coded, and tested; all the while making sure the fixes are compatible with the ongoing development. This takes time and introduces complications that have to be worked through.
For good or bad, companies are not going to make their development schedules or list of updated/new features public, let alone publicly guestimate when bug fixes are going live. Could you imagine the subscriber uproar if the feature or bug fix doesn't go live when promised?
I'm not saying people shouldn't feel frustrated. We, as subscribers, have invested time and grown attached to the game so the lack of control over things like bug fixes is intense. However, it's silly to think that Bioware is indifferent because, from a business perspective, they provide a service and that service will only be successful if their subscribers are happy so it stands to reason that they want to fix these issues, too. It just takes time.
Oh, I fully agree. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you are saying. The indifference and incompetence is primarily directed at the lack of communication. Don't give me that excuse of "not wanting to stir things up", "not wanting to respond until fully ready etc."
Ignoring the single largest series of threads in this fashion is inexcusable. If this were Amy other line of business such action would be impossible. "Incredibly" poor of Bioware how this thread is handled. Where some might say I sound "entitled" or "obnoxious" I should point out that it Is the contrary. Through lack of proper communication of such a vocal and well supported thread(s) displays itself as the epitome of "obnoxious", almost as though they are "entitled" to my/our monthly fee.
Very poor display of indifference. Incompetence comes in once you realize that Bioware actually and honestly believes that they are able to successfully run an MMO in this fashion.
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well my sage has an allegedly instant ability called force wave, but force wave has a 2-3 second animation and the effect does not happen until after animation, and the animation drags on beyond the GCD so i cannot use another ability, even though the GCD says i can.
I honestly think combat is working as intended, and the problem is the GCD and off-GCD abilities. Bioware needs to just be honest and admit they want turn based, slow paced combat, where players press ONE button, watch animation , queue up another.
I think the unresponsiveness and lagginess is working as intended, it is a punishment for trying to play fast-paced and trying to play using the GCD timer instead of animations. Bioware wants to re-train players to ignore the GCD, never press more then ONE button per action, and play off animations instead.
Bioware needs to come out and be honest and make a statement.
Honesty and Bioware should probably not be said in the same sentence anymore. I have lost my faith in them in every single way.
As I've said before, all I see is Indifference and Incompetence. The inability to communicate properly with their playerbase on serious topics and concerns showcases their inability to run an MMO, it is not wise to invest time and money here.
My mood in regards to this topic and Bioware has changes dramatically over the course of 4 unanswered threads on a serious subject. The response in thread 2, page 123 was very lacking and only suggestive of a follow-up shortly thereafter. Which never came, total indifference or incompetence.
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I'm not a huge fan of official forums generally and tend to shy away from posting on them too often. This thread, however, I felt was certainly worthy of a post (my first on swtor.com, in fact) and five stars because I agree with the OP that this is a (the?) fundamental issue that needs to be addressed to ensure the long-term success of this game.
I won't go into my "gaming credentials" or anything - in MMO terms I guess I'm the upper end of average, nothing more. At heart I'm a raider, a theorycrafter, a lover of min/maxing and this game just needs a few tweaks (not saying they wouldn't be large technological undertakings, I don't know and don't mean to belittle any effort that would be needed) to make it perfect.
Of all the things that need to be added (combat log, etc) to give SW:TOR a sustainable endgame, I genuinely believe this is the highest priority. Ultimately in a competitive environment, be it PvP or PvE races to boss kills, playability has to trump visual flair.
I'll give a specific example. I'm currently playing a Sith Marauder (level 30) and one of the skills I was most excited about was an off-GCD strike that could proc whenever I avoided damage. It sounded like a cool way to add a variable to my rotation while soloing. Thing is, it more often than not won't allow me to cast it until the end of a GCD, making it a net DPS loss rather than the gain it should be. It went from hotkey 3, to 6, to Shift+E... it's just unusable, which is a shame. Occasionally it will let me use it mid-GCD but typically only when using my spammable rage-builder which has a short and unfancy animation attached to it.
I'm sure all of what I've said has been said already many times (I'll be honest, I've not read all four threads) but it moved me enough to say something and to rate. I really, genuinely, want SW:TOR to succeed - I want to be able to play its endgame instead of WoW's and to give the same amount of thought into min/maxing and raiding at the highest we can. Right now it just feels a bit messy to be able to perform anything that requires precision - and bosses that require precision are the bosses that keep people raiding, frankly. They're the ones people practice for and read up on and start community discussions about and race to kill first, etc. If every boss in WoW had as wide a margin for error as, say, Lootship, people wouldn't take it nearly as seriously. And if you want to maintain subs past all the awesome story content, people taking endgame seriously is a must.
Sorry for the rambling post. Seems I had more to say on the subject than I initially thought!
Thank you for posting and sharing, don't be afraid to share your gaming and MMO experience, it gives a good idea about who you are etc. It's only terribles who generally reply negatively to this kind of stuff. I also am not the kind of person to post that much on forums so I know where you're coming from.
Thanks for your input.
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Version 2 of the Paintbrush Diagram (added instants and chaining)
That is nice, I will add to OP later. Thanks
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Welcome back bud I was hoping you were not gone forever
Not yet, spent my time with my Fiancee this weekend so haven't posted much. I've still to this date read every single post over the past 4 threads...
I'm not sure how long I'll go on, my faith in Bioware is close to ZERO -- I see nothing but incompetence and indifference.
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)
in General Discussion
Posted
I would like to add your post as well to the OP. High level play is always very valuable. However, do you have a link to your Arena Accomplishments or anything to prove your Ranked Claim etc.?
Tyvm