I don't know the game from the medic point of view, but what you state here is atypical according to the multiple medics I know and play with in the game. Can you be in winning groups as a commando..yep. But is the win in spite of or because the commando was in the team? One last point...if you are wining 80% of the time in pugs your competition sucks.

I think you hit the whole reasoning behind the nerf....keeping it SW real.

You will be used as a replacement for players that can't make the match, but at least two members will need to be missing before you get an invite.

Great post OP and thread conversation to the rest of you. I am not a gifted code developer or network guy, but I know something is wrong at the core. So many people with awesome machines state the game is at a low FPS, long zone times, and crashes. Others with mid and low range PCs say everything is great. The hardware that seems to help the most is not the GPU but SWTOR software being loaded into a ram disk or placed on a fast SSD. Can someone explain why this is...even for people with 7200 rpm drives? Sure ram is faster than SSD which is faster than HDD, but what is actually taking so long to load into the game? Anyone know if this game runs better in a 64 bit OS as opposed to a 32 bit OS?

As a commando I never use grav round....just kidding. I never use in PVP or PVE Blitz Plasma Cell - after I get my AP Cell Charged Bolts I only use in PVE Sticky Grenade- rarely Plasma Grenade - rarely Heroic moment and Adrenaline rush have limited value and you can get away with never using them, but I use them

I believe that BW cares about all players in the game. I think that BW was surprised at the amount of commandos that were created and wanted to prune the population. I think BW was heavily influenced by players that BW holds in high regard as to commandos being OP. If you want the life of the commando to change the community must push back. Unsub will not improve the plight of the commando, but if you simply hate playing the game then by all means go somewhere else. I like the game, want to stay, and want to play my commando. Will the pushback result in BW returning the commando to pre 1.2 days....NEVER. But BW may find new ways to rebalance the AC so that it is viable in PVP and end game PVE.

Did not see your post at all as it is well reasoned and factual. You bring up a good point. While this is not a life and death struggle cause, I do believe it to be worthy in the realm of SWTOR. How many people read the SWTOR forums and this particular forum in particular? I don't know. To build any movement you must have a beginning and this may be it. I know several commandos that have opted out of the game, out of PVE, and out of PVP. Through word of mouth and advertisement on sites like republictrooper.com etc. My goals: 1. Pressure BW to implement a fix to the Commando AC. 2. The 'fix' does not mean to change the Commando back to pre 1.2, but does mean they need to address the lack of viability, especially in PVP. 3. This change must be done prior to implementing ranked war zones 4. BW must state the intended role of the commando in PVP/PVE and the reasoning for the initial nerfs in 1.2 and 1.2.0c and the reasoning behind the fix design we are requesting. It is clear that BW either failed to change the Commando gunnery rotations, or simply did not tell the truth, and I have yet to hear why Medics were hit so hard. I would also like to see the general metrics used that made BW think a change was necessary in the first place. Maybe I am alone or in the minority when it comes to these goals. Maybe I need to LTP my commando better and all other commandos are thriving after the patch. Maybe the players of other classes are right and the commando was or even is still OP in every way. This is not my experience, and I don't think it matches the experience of others.

Well, I am not for quitting SWTOR outright, and I am running some alts, but as a community of commandos, healing, gunny, assault, and combined, I would like to recommend that you stay out of WZ game play. I know this will be hard for many to do because the grind for Hero gear takes time spent in WZ, and when you get lucky and play against poor players you can even produce some good results. But what really is the point? Is it getting you anywhere? Commando PVP is broken. Why be the whipping dog? If you love PVP you will have more fun with another class if you are healer or DPS, I promise. As a gunny with valor above 80 it is painful to park and not progress, but is system wide commandos simply drop out of PVP maybe there would be a change to the class by BW. Feel free to flame...I can take it.

This is the first MMORPG that I have PVPd, and found it to be fun, but I also feel that the mix of PVP and PVE in an MMORPG is its ultimate downfall. I don't think the two live well together as they are trying to do different things. The PVP looks to build rock/paper/scissors symmetry between classes/AC/Builds while the PVE is looking to build content that is beatable but not beatable too easily. This leads to conflict. Again, I am new to PVP and enjoining it on SWTOR. I am not trolling when I ask the following: There is a big concern by PVPers about balance and the claims of over powered or not fair seems to be the norm. Wouldn't the PVP community want a game that gave every character access to the same set of abilities, armor, weapons? That would do away with the balance issues...if you chose to build your character one way and it is less powerful than another then change at will. I know most don't like this idea, but I would love PVP combat between characters with the same stats/abilities/equipment to go head to head. To me that would give meaning to ranked WZ. Everything else can be said to be a matter of mechanics instead of playing ability.

No need for water cooling a PC unless you are overclocking it hard. It sounds like you are not interested or comfortable with building a machine on your own so I would suggest you negotiate with a local small computer store/ college student to help you build one. You will learn so much more about computing, get the best parts for the money, and save money. The thing a national builder/boutique builder can offer you is warranty, but be very careful as not all warranties are good and not all companies honor their warranties as they should. Good luck.

I don't think the OP was complaining about the second M in MMO, but the first. Yes SWTOR is multi-player in the sense that there are more than one player on at a time, maybe not the same zone or instance, but on the server. SWTOR is missing the first M which is Massively. Now I know there is some subjective feelings about what exactly entails Massive Multi-player. 8-20 people on an instance and 60 players in the main gathering zone (Fleet) does not meet my definition, but maybe it does yours. Then I would estimate that 70% of the content in the game is geared towards the solo player and not the massive multi-player, but that will change with time.

I must respectfully disagree. Blizzard is known for its pandering to the community of QQ. This involved everything from design of the raids, content, and class abilities. Very often it was the loudest QQ that got its way. It is my experience that the loudest in the WoW community were the PVP players, then the casual player, followed closely by the hard core raider. I did not see this much in EQ1, but I was a young mmorpg player then and never pvp'd.

I love people bad mouthing a class/ac/spec that they know little of, and evidently never learned how to fight against. A gunny commando is a fixed target with his only instant abilities having long cool downs that depend on a long cast ability (grav round) to proc. The gunny commando is easily evaded by LOS, easily neutered by interrupts, easily killed with melee and ranged attacks, and surprisingly easy to kill even with heavy armor and good HP. Our rotation has not changed with the advent of 1.2. We now die much more easily than before, and our damage output has been hurt. Do we still put out damage? Certainly, but other DPS builds/classes do much more. Who do you focus on to kill in a WZ after the healers? Who do you run from in a WZ? Was 1.2 and 1.2.0c an appropriate nerf for the trooper, especially the commando? Well the stated goal was to make the rotation more complicated to achieve the same results. That goal was not met. The rotation is the same and the results are less. If that was the goal then BW succeeded. In the end it is what it is. Eventually other classes/AC/builds will be nerfed and gunny commandos will be buffed as BW plays chase the tail on the donkey trying to min/max balance in a PVE/PVP environment. This is one reason MMORPGs are not enjoyable for me. I like knowing the rules of the game. I don't like spending hours building a character and then that character being changed in a whim or through community whining. But this is just me as I know most love this sort of thing. Well love it until the nerf bat hits their character.

While you level you may want to invest more heavily in preservation talents...like extra armor percentage, add heal percentage if you are having problems surviving in PVE while leveling. My leveling came pre 1.2 so my companion reasoning may not be sound now, but it works for my lvl 50 dailies etc. With Elara and my CC I can handle 2 man heroics solo, but I am geared in Rakatta and Columi. I kill faster with my cat friend and my droid....I never found any of my companions to be tanky enough to help me, but that might be the way I have them geared.

I don't play heals so I can only go on what others have said about the healing nerf. My questions is do you heal/survive as well as other healer classes in a WZ? If you were to plan a ranked WZ and you had the best players of every class/AC/basic build available to you to pick, would you pick a commando healer? In PVE is there a reason not to invite a commando healer on a nightmare operation, or is there a reason a commando healer would be preferred? I don't know the answers to these questions for a medic.

Vanguard has armor increasing abilities that commandos don't have. Wouldn't those percentage adds be reflected in their percentage, but not their actual armor numbers? I don't know for sure, but just a guess.

Either: I need you to teach me your ways. Or Your fellow DPS in your OPS group really suck. Open to both

Gunny commando is the way to go if you prefer limited movement.....only a gunslinger would move less. This comes at a cost though and has had its upper end viability crushed IMO. If you want to PVP or nightmare mode OPS look elsewhere.

Play a vanguard and be happy. Commando may not be the worse AC in the game, but it is one of the last I would pick to serve in a ranked PVP or nightmare OPS. Commando is still quite fun in solo PVE and does dailies well.

Um Commandos are irrelevant in OPS and PVP now. Yes, you can accept being the punching bag of the group, and an OPS can be powerful enough to carry you, but any other ranged DPS or healer is preferable. The only way to adapt to this is to reroll, accept your inferior abilities, or quit. That was how druids and paladins 'thrived' in WoW. I know because I was both...worse I was a feral druid in the beginning . Eventually Blizzard reacted to the issue...over reacted and nerfed again. I have no idea how it has been for the past 3 years because I quit.

Working as designed....nothing to see here.

I am pissed at BW for the double nerf bat to my beloved gunny commando, and I have been quite vocal about it. Yes, if things do not improve after the six/ now seventh month I will not return. But to state that SWTOR is so far behind wow during the same time frame is just not correct in my opinion. SWTOR has done several wonderful things. 40 man Molten Core was a mistake....I very much enjoy 16 man operations. I played a paladin in WoW and it was nerfed many times and much harder than the commando has been here. BW must: Fix the bugs Implement what they state they will implement Review their balancing....as I believe it is based on census data and not damage/healing/protection metrics.

Well as a gunny I can say that I still rock the dailies....of course I no longer PVP or OPS Wasn't the stated goal of the nerfs...and yes in MMOs nerfs happen...to change our game play from spamming grav round? Maybe I am doing something wrong, but other than curtain of fire occurring more often my rotation has not changed...it just does less damage and I am easier to kill.

You know what my gunny is great at now....running dailies.

So do you have a RP story line behind your commando retirement? Mine simply discovered that Travus was correct but had the wrong friends.