First attempt at an MMO with constraints by Lucas and EA. I won't hold SWTOR against BW if it never pans out. Flops happen and we get past them. Looking forward to a Balder's Gate or a new KOTOR! \I do believe that I am about done with the MMORPG paradigm/genre as it is envisioned by developers at this time. I swore off MMORPGs after WoW, and was sucked back in by the promise of SWTOR..

There are two different gaming philosophies at work, and I personally don't believe the two should be mixed in one game. PVP= anti-social (not in a bad way) where you try to dominate one or more players PVE = social where you try to enhance the play of others to achieve an end goal. The fact that people want a balanced PVP class structure, but different classes and talents is absurd to me. The perfect PVP world would be one where every one starts like a clean sheet of paper and can select any ability from rank one at level one and rank 2 at level 2 and so on. All PVP leveling is attained by actual PVP time. Then if one PVP build is stronger than another there is no one to blame but the player for his ability builds. PVE should have a set of rules for classes that do not change so that developers can tune content against those rules for the best game play.

I was a big theme park MMO fan, but when it is done poorly it is really bad. I still want some themepark in my MMO, but also want a structured sandbox. I am not for an open sandbox. I don't want others trashing the world I play in, and I don't have the imagination to fully populate my world with story, art, and other content. Crafting and economy are important. PVP and Social PVE really do not mix in my opinion.

First, thank you all for very thoughtful and valid responses to my post. After reading all of the replies I have changed my conclusion a bit. VO is important to games...even MMORPG. VO should only be used for major content....class story, world story, race story etc. while 'grind quests' are best left to type, or a single VO conversation that leads to multiple quests. VO is only as good as the writing of the story/dialogue. There are some quests I replay and listen to because I enjoy it, but most I now skip. In a story based game there must be meaningful choice branches with consequences making replayability greater. So SWTOR gave us a good thing, but could have adjusted the amount of the good thing we got.

I loved the voice acting. It really pulled me into the story.....the first time. Now I space bar everything except class story line when leveling an alt. I had thought that I would want to play the different 'decision' trees through the conversation, but have found them to be inconsequential making the replay not worthwhile. So this I believe will be the first and last MMORPG that offers such an extensive voiced narrative. The cost benefit does not exist to support it. The lead time required for development is also a problem. What do you think?

The want for a quality MMORPG is alive and well. People are generally social creatures, and at its heart an MMORPG should be the finest of social media. The problem is that the powers that be, the developers, the producers, and the money men have all lost site of what an MMO coupled with RPG should be. I stand by this statement with all of my considerable weight....PVP and PVP players are antithetical to the MMORPG PVE world. PVP is anti-social. Yes, PVP is fun, but you can't be both a PVP and PVE environment and please your players.

I say reroll and stay away from non-glow-stick classes. If you must play a trooper go vanguard. Speaking for PVP only...PVE is okay.

Tell me how to run away much less kite a glow stick that has decided to kill me in pvp? I am not even talking about trying to do any damage to them, just trying to escape.

SWTOR has its problems which is not helping, but I believe the problem is with MMORPGs as currently imagined and designed by the player community and developers. There needs to be a fundamental shift to bring the play back to the genre. PVP combined with PVE does not work. Serve one or the other community and do it well. You will not get the huge numbers of subscribers, but the subscribers you do get will be dedicated to the game.

Ok, I love the stories and the concepts in SWTOR. SWTOR was designed for the casual player, and that is what I am. But there are problems in River City, problems I say. Some of the problems are design issues, but these IMO are minor quibbles compared to the game code itself. I am not a developer and don't understand what goes into making a game of any scale, but from what I read the choice in engine, HERO, is a big part of the problem. People claim that HERO is limiting the game as well as other development decisions that were made. I don't know if this is true or not, but it seems plausible. I just know there are issues. If the base code is the culprit is it too late to rebuild using a new engine? Could the existing art, AI, etc. but utilized with new underpinnings?

It is my understanding they added the pugilistic abilities to enhance the commandos pvp viability.

I play both a vanguard and a gunny commando. In PVE both ACs are viable and usable. I am fond of carrying the big gun and fighting at range so commando gunny is great. If you are looking for the best ranged DPS you may want to look at another class, but troopers are fun. There is always more of a need for a tank than DPS in pugs as dps tends to be more plentiful.. PVP Commandos in PVP are simply broken in all three trees. You can still PVP, but if you are looking at ranked WZ in the future you will be odd man out in the good groups. The problem at the moment is not so much the damage that you do, but the survive ability on the field, and the benefit you bring to a team compared to other classes doing what you do. Vanguards are a different story. I am still new to it in PVP but they have several skills that really shine in pvp.

Yikes, you are so write...just a wee joke there. I corrected the problem.

I have spoken out many times about the commando nerf of 1.2. It did not make me happy. In PVE as a gunny spec I still do well. Other classes/specs can do the job better. PVE gives time for our slow heals to be used as self heals and emergency heals which is nice. I can't speak to the medic spec. The assault spec should be fine in PVE, but you give up the most useful ability of the commando which is fighting at range. In PVP as a gunny my damage is less than what it used to be, and I can deal with that. The current problem for me is that I have 0 survive-ability. I don't have the abilities to counter effectively, and now heavy armor seems to offer little protection. Prior to 1.2 I used to be able to take a few hits, but now not so much. A well structured group will succeed with a dps commando, but they would succeed more easily and more often with a different DPS class in your place.

Ah what a nice big hug you just gave me. Thank you. I will actually give it a rest though. The moment is over and my sage is kicking butt. My gunny is racking up huge amounts of credits by doing dailies at a quick clip. But since you asked me to stand down, and told me that the class was fine, would you tell me what your main is and if you PVP with that main?

If only our server had the number of people that post in the forums......yes one server vs. a billion, but that is the crux of the matter.

Nice....good to know the underground is doing their job.

I have not seen this or these threads, and would be interested.

Speed is not always the best way to go even when leveling. What do you find yourself enjoying the most? I personally like playing a 'light' tank when I am on my own leveling and play a controlled attack. For this I use Dorne and my CC....I play gunny. I have only played assault a little bit and found that I preferred a DPS vanguard. You are young enough still to reroll and start again. When I want to kill fast I bring out the cat and go all aoe on their butts, but I find this has more down time as I am constantly pausing to gain health and ammo. As for the droid, I found him to be a very poor tank, but fun to be around for his comments. I ended up gearing him up for DPS and used him in place of the cat. Dorne plus DPS build = consistent DPS with no down time. Jordan/droid plus DPS build = burst dps with downtime to reload and heal I never leveled as a medic, and I never had a problem with death, but I leveled prior to 1.2.

This just in....it is apparent that the Havoc squad elite commandos have fallen victim to a genetically altering bio weapon developed by the Imperials. It is now being reported that every Havoc commando has been weakend in mind and body to the point they can no longer perform in the field. It is unknown at this time how the Empire released the weapon or how it targeted the commandos in particular, but the initials BW were found on a canister in the commando training facility. Quickly commandos are leaving the squad to return to desk jobs, or mustering out of the military completely. There is an ongoing discussion in the Senate to determine if commandos should receive disability funds or not. With the current state of the Republic most believe the commandos will be on their own. End Dispatch **edit** to fix a spelling error

To be taken seriously: First, prove in some capacity that a problem does exist. I think this has been proven through the combat logs and more. This is not a QQ situation over being nerfed, but a viability issue. I would like to see the 'proof' that BW used in taking the nerfing steps in the first place, but apparently that was not needed by anybody other than those playing commando. Second, identify the root of the problem. There are actually several problems that came from the root problem of being nerfed. Many of the nerf issues have been documented by BW, but many dealing with armor and HP have not been stated. We are still dependent on Grav round. We were told the nerf was to make it so we didn't rely on spamming grav round. If that was their intention, they failed. If they intended to neuter DPS then they were successful. Was this cut to our DPS needed? That depends on that mystical missing proof that was not given by BW. I am only talking about DPS because that is what I know, but from what I hear the medic is also screwed. In the beginning we were a hard hitting turret that could take a punch but lacked mobility and were easily foiled by LOS, and stuns/cc. Now we lack punch, lack staying power through armor/HP, still have the same liabilities as before. We can now only be said to add ranged DPS. woop Third, put forth a solution. Many solutions have been put forth, but in the end it depends on the developer to agree to a solution that fits their intent, and that takes an effort to make the developer to realize there is a problem. Unfortunately, you are correct as nothing the commando community does will effect change. Frankly the game has many more serious problems other than commandos being useless. Reroll or leave the game is the only options open to the commando main.

I would also accept a refund of all the hours it took to get to level 50, then rakatta, then level 80 valor......but I think allowing me to change to guardian might be easier.

If BW did their job right and your competition and your team is a random mix of class and skill you should be winning much closer to the 50% mean. 80% to 90% is very unreasonable in a PUG. Now if you were strictly speaking about a great pre-made I might still doubt a bit, but it would be more plausible. Some of the medics I know are average to poor at the game and many are awesome healers. But as for medic healing I again tell you that I have no first hand experience and only go on what I read and what I am told. You are one of the few voices that ring contrary to that information.

+1 Kushtaka You said it much better than I ever could.

Ok, if I am reading this correctly the dps commando was below a sentinel but higher than the gunslinger. Is that what the log shows? Now what I would like to see are the logs against the combat dummies for all DPS specs. This of course would not take into account the advantage the commando has at fighting from range or the disadvantage from fighting from a stationary position.