First off, your response was not helpfull. Second, I'm sorry you don't like playing SWTOR PVP, some of us do. To the OP, welcome to the melee tank world of PVP. Your damage is sub par but your ability to protect a door/turret/ball is great. Honestly, my only complaint with my class (50 Immortal specced Jugg) is my very low damage output. 1v1 you are going to lose alot of fights, but in group settings like warzones, when played right, you can be a huge asset. Unfortunitely or fortunitely, depending on your point of view, warzone pvp is role specific. Ours is to protect something or someone. Can we help capture turrets or points, yes. Where we really shine however is preventing the enemy from capturing them. Find your niche, enjoy helping your team win objectives, but don't expect to deal alot of damage. That being said, I love my Jugg. Alot more so than any of my DPS specc'ed characters. It's all about personal preference. Hope that helps, if not, feel free to ask more questions.

Then I stand corrected. *humble bow*

Actually....Jugg's (and guardians) cooldowns and survivability are some of the best. Our lacking quality is the ability to outdamage anyone 1v1. We do (in my experiance, real numbers might prove me wrong) the least damage in the game. I can (and have) beaten people 1v1 before but it takes alot of cooldown timing and strategic healing with med pacs and "Endure Pain". Our greatest weakness is burst damage, especially late in the fight. Not disagree'ing with you on them being weak 1v1, just about their cooldowns and survivability.

If you are who I think you are (in game) then you have probably fought my Jugg a number of times. And won each time. To be fair, you were always better geared and have had much more practice at PVP. Give me a full set of BM gear and try me again. You will still win, but it won't be as easy. Also....my skill = average. I'm good, just not that good.

you want everyone to have a heal? .....ok Give my Immortal Jugg a self heal I can use in combat. Please. I'm already very hard to kill, great cooldowns, relic abilities, average to low damage (I can keep up on damage but I am never close to the top dealer) AND the ability to heal myself? In combat? "Don't worry guys, I'll defend the turret here by myself. What's that? The entire opposing team is coming for my turret...ok, pop cooldowns...warzone health pack....self heal....ten minutes later...ok, I'm dead but my team secured the other two turrets, fair exchange" Yes, this post is a bit of an exageration. No I don't think everyone should get in combat heals. And if this is for out of combat heals, dude....don't let them get out of combat...not that hard....and I would describe myself as only an average PVP player skill level. If I can do it, trust me, you can too.

Kahn Darth Kahn 50 Immortal Jugg on Rubat Crystal (which invariably leads to numerous KAAAAHHHHNNNN shouts when I log into a warzone with newer people)

umm actually, what he was asking was if Bioware was going to add a copy character to the test server and if they do not, then they will never have enough 50's to test end game content and patches. He is actually agree'ing with you as to the matter at hand....to those who are affected by the server down times, I am sorry. It sucks not being able to play when you want to. However no matter when they did the down times, someone would be upset. Ok, so you want a fix for that, less downtime. Now I am not saying that this fix should be postponed....yes, I pvp....but perhaps better testing. And no I don't mean your internal testers. Anyone who has ever been in programming will tell you that you can test something for months at a time but untill it gets to the end user, you will NOT find all the bugs. So let us test stuff, but don't make us level up again on the test server. I play the live servers to play the game, I play the test server to help test new patches and content. Don't make me go from the ground up again just to help you out. A char copy tool is essential to this. Yes, I know, these things take time to make....ok, you have until that next big patch/update of yours get this added. Let us help you. Some of us crazy people enjoy looking for bugs and issues that cause problems because we truely enjoy the game and want it to go far.

I hate to disagree with the OP, his math is beautiful and as far as I can tell, accurate. However....it's the way it is. Why should those who have been playing and gearing their characters suffer because someone wants an advantage they didn't have when starting out. I know, I know, I sound like the "haves" arguing against the "have nots" but in actuality...I just started PVP'ing. I (for some reason) really enjoy warzones, my hp total is 14.7K and I regularly find myself against 16 or 17K hp players. When I first started, I would go splat alot....now that I have earned myself some Champ gear (yay dailies) I don't go splat as much. One on one I'll probably still lose, but I'll make it close. Heck, the other day I held a turret against two people for longer than I thought I would....I seem to have gotten off track here. TL;DR newbies don't need special buffs, warzones are set up so that even if you suck, you can still win if your team is good, find friends, introduce yourself to others, play and learn and gear up.

Well, Xav bud, I'm sorry your not having fun, but in all honesty...you brought it on yourself. You are literally telling those of us who like Immortal that we are playing it wrong. Why? Because you do more damage as a Vengeance spec. You ask what content needs Immortal spec to complete...I ask does it matter? You can solo as a veng, I can solo as an Immortal. You can tank as a Veng, I can tank as an Immortal. As long as we are both doing our jobs and we are having fun in our own way, are we really playing the game wrong? No, no we are not. Are some of us Immorties (read, those of us who like the Immortal spec) taking a harsh stance on your OPINION? Possibly, but then again how would you, as a Vengie feel if we told you that you were flat out wrong for your choice in how to play. TL;DR If I'm having fun as an Immortal and you are having fun as a Veng, is it really wrong?

Ok, bear with me here. Improvements for Jugg, Immortal spec.... 1: a small (say 2-4%) across the board damage increase. More damage would equal more threat and at that small of an increase we would still do less damage then a tank specced Powertech. 2: Chilling Scream. Seriously, outside of PVP how many of you use this ability? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Add an increased threat component to it. That would give us a second AoE threat builder to help with the spaced apart mobs and have no bearing on PVP at all. But...but...Dar-Ell, oh handsome and wise one, you can specc that ability to have no rage cost and no cooldown (aside from the global) That would be unfair to other tank classes...Ok, a tank who does nothing but spam a threat ability that doesn't do damage is going to find himself using a med rez droid probe alot. Still, fine add an increased rage component and a cooldown to it. 3: To the person who said to lower the cooldown of Backhand to 6 seconds....yeah, no. That would make the ability (not to mention the class) massively Over Powered. an ability that gives a 4 second stun resuseable 2 seconds after the stun wears off...Considering even some Champion level mobs can be stunned, I'll say no. 4: Pommel Strike and Savage Kick...Those two abilities are not even on my bars anymore. Awesome ideas, great designs/animation, useless implamentation. Make them usuable against any target and I'll consider putting them back on my bars. 5: Endure Pain...umm, yeah. I'll heal you for this much...a few seconds later I'll take all that I healed you for away. What's that, but since you were using that to stay alive while tanking and he got a lucky crit on you, you are now dead because the hit to your health took you below zero? Seriously to say this is situational is an understatment. It's an either at the complete end of the fight barely stay alive button or an I hit it now pray to (insert divine force of choice here) that my healer can save me before the hp crash. Again, good idea on paper, poor implamentation. The ability needs work and help and no, a shorter cooldown is not it. These ideas are just something I've been thinking of while playing. I've got a lvl 50 Immortal Jugg and a lvl 20 tank specced (can't remember the name of the spec currently and at work so can't check) Powertech. I tank with both and don't really have problems, but I will admidt agaisnt multiple targets my BH can focus them better.

....were you following me around on Tat a few days ago? Cause yeah....that was me... Alive...doing fine....a couple levels above the mobs in the area...ohh, clicky...wait, why am I dead?

seriously? You were expecting a HUGE number of people at 2pm on Christmas day? you are a troll simply because of the disinformation you spread like it's the truth. Have fun playing WoW and I truely wish you the best.

this thread is great. OP you get the slow clap of awesome and the happy jawa of approval /slow_clap_of_awesome

As far as I remember reading in the previous forums (and looking at BioWare's history -going back as far as Baldur's Gate II here) you at some point have to choose. Whether that is with a cut scene /dialoge option I don't know.

ten bucks says I get in today....since I'm at work for 24 hours and won't be able to play until tomorrow anyway

But...it's not available to anyone, it's only available to those who pre-ordered. My sister can't come into town tomorrow, buy the game and start playing. I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on that part. Launch is the 20th.

how many codes? how many preorders? everyone who preordered and registered their code get's in. It's just a matter of when. Me? I'll probably get in tomorrow...when I'm working a 24 hour shift and won't be able to play...*shrug*

I am going to regret participating in this conversation.... I have read the blog entry, so please no "learn2read" comments. Early Access and Launch are not the same thing. Launch is when you can go into a store, buy a copy of the game, go home, install, update, and play. Early Access is bonus free time on the servers given to people who pre-ordered the game, a headstart over the general populace who will buy the game on the 20th or later. Whether or not the co-founder said that the game has launched is irrelevant. The difference is tiny, and mostly a matter of semantics, but it is there. Thank you and have a wonderful night/day/morning/afternoon (that should cover all timezones of people reading this)

Wamp Rat... I am short, green, and powerfull in the Force. I am female...what am I?

Stick-Ee Please Again, great guide. Thanks for reposting it.

Sup all Jugg here, looking forward to playing with ya all. See ya in game.

Phottek's guide was and still is amazingly awesome. Thanks to you for saving it and to Phottek for writting it.