I'm going to use two examples from yesterday. Example the first: The reppies (strongest in the post 50 on my server) was able to capture two turrets immediately and delay us from getting one by a few minutes. They defended their two turrets to perfection. Our ship reached below 100 while theirs was still well above 300. By your logic, we should continue to throw ourselves against them in a futile and often frustrating (leading to no one on our team having fun) attempt to three cap. As opposed to standing around our turret, socializing, discussing what went wrong, and yes dancing at times. Example numero two: We (the impies) got the west turret and the reppies got the mid turret immediately. The east turret changed hands too many times to count. Neither team ever gave up, even when it looked impossible we kept pressing and it was close all the way through. It ended something like 60 to 0. In the first example, continuing the attack and failing time and time again simply feeds the frustration level and makes people not want to reque, which leads to longer que times and or more same faction Huttball. The losing team, when they are sure they are going to lose and nothing can be done about it (curse you reppie premades who are so good ) by gathering at the one node retain some sanity and some desire to continue to play. P.S. Why do I dance? To show both my team and the enemy team that even though we lost, I'm still having fun. You'd be suprised how many people I've gotten to dance with me even though we've been routed.

Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force. Odan-Urr was an idiot. The original code, as written above, does not deny the Jedi these things called emotions. Rather it states that "though I feel emotions like anger and love I shall act calmly" and "though others or even I myself do not know something, I shall strive to teach and learn" and "though the world spins with great happening I shall remain calm and objective" and "Though things are fractured around me I shall work to bring peace and justice" and "I accept that there is death, but when someone or something dies they become part of something much greater than myself" Honestly, the whole, "There is no" aspect was a huge mistake. My opinion but hey.

/signed even though (apparently) 80% of the people in this thread hate hutball

I accept that I do less damage. That is a given. However I don't think DPS is the be all and end all of the game. Though I do think this is a conversation we should not have. I have my points of view and you have yours and nothing we say will magically convince the other to change their mind. I humbly submit that we agree to disagree. To the OP, my tank specced Jugg does quite well in warzones with high survivability and utility. If you are lookiing for something fun, fast paced, and team orientated I suggest trying the tank spec. If you are looking to out DPS someone 1v1 then....yeah, go DPS spec.

wait...why is a tank specced tank a bad choice?

why are your sorc/sages huddled around either the ball carrier or the doors? why do your gunslingers/snipers get that close to melee range? Or your mercs/commando's? I say again, the scenario is possible, but not likely.

In a word....no in two words...uh no in two more words....yeah, no P.S. I play an Immortal Jugg so I do not have the super crit smash ability. So, no I am not protecting my class or my favorite ability. For your scenario to work all of the other team must be in close quarters and all of the Juggs/Guardians must fire off all at once. I don't think that will happen very often.

I'm just going to quote this because it made me smile

*posts amusing picture of confused looking animal with the caption "Not Sure If Serious"*

I agree....which is why I was calling the guy I quoted out when he said he killed the tank by attacking the healer in a 2v1 fight with him playing the mara. P.S. Saberward is my least used cooldown, so yeah, I agree it's not all that great.

This is going to hurt, saying this and playing a tank but, all stats are pointless including protection. the only reason for the stats like healing, kills, protection and what not are for assigning medals. Only the first four medals count for anything. Unless the warzone ends early for some reason, four medals are incredibly easy to get. At which point, eveything else becomes fluff for bragging rights that will be soon forgotten after the splash end screen goes away.

I'm going to say....prove it. Bring your mara to my server and fight my Jugg with a healer friend of mine and kill me through attacking the healer. Either the people you were fighting were much lower level then you, or they didn't know how to play. I promise you....PROMISE you that in a 2v1 situation my tank with a pocket healer will out last any DPS you can bring. Now, I'm not saying Marauders aren't powerfull, cause they are. Yes, they have better cooldowns then DPS Juggs (not then Tank Juggs...my opinion, I'm allowed to have it) and their DPS is slightly better. Although DPS Juggs have a handy ability they can spec into which makes them immune to CC for a short time after Force Leaping to an enemy...love using that in Huttball...run into the pit, leap to enemy player, be immune to CC while running across goal line..

basiclly....it works like this....you and three of your friends are hitting the lone healer, the healer falls and that equals 4 kills to 1 death...since you all helped to kill that poor, poor healer but they only died once. in other words, you get kill credit when you damage an enemy who dies in a certain amount of time after you damage them. final blow/killing strike/what ever you want to call it only counts for the Quick Draw medal.

well, my opinion might be a little skewed since I have a DPS guardian and not a Jugg, but...he usually does near the top of the damage chart at the end of a warzone...so, yeah Marauders do more damage, but the difference isn't as bad as you make it sound.

Guy's, the OP is right....as a tank I never get MVP votes...even though I'm a team player and help hold objectives/balls for a long time against horrible odds..... So I guess it's a good thing I don't care about MVP votes. In all honesty though, did you all read the post? It was stated that the person who healed 1K more then they did got the MVP votes while they got none. This is a classic "If I can't win, I'm taking my ball and going home" post with the added twist of being focused on MVP votes and not winning warzones. Nothing to see here, move along.

Ahhh, I see your problem. When you posted in 2008 you were using SWG as a reference and since the only thing this game shares with that one is the name Star Wars, the developers didn't listen. Or maybe that was when they got the idea to put a stealth in the game? What if, by reading your post, they saw that some people could use that ability to grief others? OMG, do you realize what this means? It's cyclical effect, you are the cause of the problem you are complaining about.... Sarcasm off, you do realize you are complaining with so much hate about an ability that less then half of the classes get right? One that is situational and as others have pointed out, really only usefull in 1v1? Yeah, it's time to take off the tinfoil hat and join us in what I like to call "the Real World". Just because there is an ability that you haven't figured out how to beat yet (see what I did there) doesn't mean it is overpowered or FOTM.

that depends on what spec you are. Immortal, none. Vengeance, at your level, you should have two. You can spec your force scream for one and the first attack you get in the vengeance tree has a dot component. Don't know about rage, sorry.

Wait....you posted in the forums about this specific ability before anyone even knew any classes (and yes I say classes since AC's weren't around yet)? Nostradomus, is that you?

You do realize....they are implementing this possibly even as soon as 1.2? And wouldn't a better title be "All warzones should be same faction vs. same faction." Since I play an Imp and am offended by your "Factionist" stance. Actually I tease about that last part, but they are already doing the faction vs. faction thing.

to quote my Jugg "Some elaboration is required."

that's mildly amusing. the only times the dreaded "Cloakers" hide from me is when I'm about to kill them. they run away to heal/hide or what not and I move on to another target (or pretend to and wait for them to come out of it) Honestly, this ability isn't that big of a deal. It can be frustrating at times, sure, but it can be overcome. On an unrelated note, did anyone else come in here expecting a rant on how sorc/sage's are overpowered?

Immortal spec....I know, I'm the underdog....but hell, I still have fun and contribute alot to the team

aww, how cute, you think I care about those medals. Honestly I really don't. Let's take Huttball for example. If I am underpowered and not necessary, why is it that when I am running next to the ball carrier the other team will focus fire me first? Actually, I love it when that happens and I don't even have Guard on the ball carrier...You get no medals for dying like that and yet it helps the team. Voidstar now, on say...attacking round. Why is it when I harrass a healer and three or four of the enemy team come to help him and it takes me a while to die that the rest of the team can plant a bomb? On defense tanks do have it worse since there is no way of breaking LOS without leaving the doors and ranged can own them, but I digress about that. I've already said I can hold a turret in Civil War until my team comes to help out. Yeah, tank specs have it slightly worse in PVP, but it can be overcome and it is a mindset. If you are looking to outdamage everyone else, play a DPS. If you are looking for a self sacrificing, team orientated play style where objectives and winning (or at least having fun with what you are doing) are more important, then welcome to the Tank.

guys, stop arguing. Dont' you see? The devs will read this, think tanks need a buff, and boom, suddenly my Immortal Jugg (no cookie cutter spec, thank you very much) will be able to solo hold a turret in Civil War against not three (the normal) enemies, but the whole team!!!! Seriously, I saw the guild summit livestream about PVP and the hedging against tank specs question. Do we need a bit of a buff and or defense stat looked at? Yes. However I don't think it is a as bad as the OP says. I generally do pretty well for myself in warzones, I may never have the highest damage, but I usually come close or even have the highest protection rating. We are not there to do damage, we are there to prevent damage to others. Yes, right now there are alot of attacks that sneak through our defense and hit our mitigation hard. It can be overcome. Honestly, I blame expertise. The haves vs. the have nots. Without that stat (only usefull in PVP) I think you would see the quality of all classes go up. I know, I know...but Dar-Ell, the only reason your Jugg does so well is cause you have a full set of champ gear. To that I say...bull pucky. The full set of champ gear allowed me guard a turret against three people...before I could do it against two. One extra person is not that big a difference. It's about knowing your class and your abilities. *Notation, when I say "guarding a turret solo" I mean preventing a cap and not dying until others of my team can come and help. I by no means state or imply I will defeat those three (or any) enemies who come my way. That is not my job.

no, but they could do fictinal events that "happen" to correlate with real world events...remember SWG "Wookie Life Day" and the tree decorating/present smashing? A hint, it was at Christmas time...