Elyx
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the only real thing this does for me is make Rage possibly viable enough in PvE to try out. I think Vengeance will still hold top PvE quite well (the bleeds may be small, but they add up over a long fight, especially those with movement). but if Rage holds up it would be worth respeccing so i can enjoy those uber smashes you guys get when I solo
Vengeance was pretty well off anyways...Only thing I though they should have done was make the 4pc a talent, and give us something worth using the 4 piece set for. Saber chucking should be 0 range...its our only real ranged ability, and its damage is incomparable with most other ranged skills. no reason why it SHOULDN'T be melee-30m. that and immortal could use the boost.
Immortal is almost salt in the wound at this point...I get the same feeling when I have t spec into immortal to tank as I do every-time i write the check for my Ex... This grating feeling of frustration that I simply have to accept cause I'm not going to be able to change it. I just wish I enjoyed the Assassin/Shadow more as a tank. Leveling a PT ATM to try that out, Im enjoying it, but they're hitting them pretty hard in this patch too (though it doesn't impact their tank spec that much).
And I ONLY play PvE, so take the above with that in mind.
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When they announced the healer nerf in 1.2, some argued "hey, this is subject to change" Well, guess what, it didn't.
If they announce this without having an clear ETA for the actual patch, kinda tells me they are committed to them since they're willing to take the heat in advance.
I fear there will be more, and for same reasons. Again, everybody will get screwed because of "pvp balance".
I empathize with your feelings on the subject...It was a big hit. but to be fair to Bio, they did explain it...and just about everyone agreed it was needed, it was simply the intensity of the change that rubbed people raw. and to their credit, they did actually listened, and cut it back. But it seems that in patches after that, things have degraded a bit worse each time.
I have a strong feeling the silence is due to all the effort needed to implement f2p. but the lack of feedback on details of even that is leaving many people frustrated. this is the first time for this game that I've taken to hopping to the forums for any news of whats happening. I don't even read the forums much anymore. I just look to see if there's any more news. which there is none. and then i move on...
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That does not hurt the game, it helps you detect people who wear keesters for hats.
Inspection is a sociable thing to do in games. Sociopaths will misuse social norms. Can't prevent it.
Besides, it lets other people who see your gear and like what they see inspect you to see what it is without spamming you in /whisper.
This is what I do 98% of the time. some people think of the greatest gear looks! I want to know how to look like that
on the note of gear checks....I will inspect a person if we run into a situation where were having a hard time, and someone is suspect. but that's about it.
I don't like the idea of ruining someone else's fun...but I'm not a fan of judging someone else purely by their gear. is the guy is in blues...and were still progressing through the run...fine by me. does he got a green? well, if he's doin his job, and i can tell he's a good player...who cares?
I probably wouldn't even need to look. if they're gears horribly put together, they're lack of ability will start to show in those little things. he breaks CC 3rd time in a row. he continues to engage mobs that everyone else is avoiding. he constantly is hitting the wrong mob. yeah...Im gonna inspect, but honestly, I already know the issue. inexperienced or megbad player. but then again, i already know the answer. no need to look at gear.
And if you look at gear and decide you have the right to pre-judge someone, your wrong. unless they're gear is THAT BAD. but that goes right back to my previous paragraph...you'll probably find out that they also are bad player. sometimes you won't know. I've had tanks in blues do amazing jobs. I've had a healer or DPS that i was amazed with roll need on a drop and apologize..."sry. I was still wearing a green in that slot". gear isn't everything. but if they're itemization sucks...
But poor itemization and lower level gear are two different things. had a guild player in an HM run the other day turn down a columi earpiece...and he was wearing a blue. sounds right up front like a bad choice...except he had a really nice blue on! he would have lost allot of surge and crit to get a few extra points in his main stat, and he would have gotten a wasted stat in their place.
now, someone who was doing a quick gear check and kicking people wouldn't notice that (cause that's a douche approach). but a smart guy would do a double check on the earpiece....go back a second time, see it and know that they guy knows his stats. so yeah...not a supporter of inspections for gear checks. besides, how do i know that the guy who's inspecting me knows what he's doing? most people think they do...only a few actually do.
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Hey Austin. Thanks for the info. could you shed light on whether or not this is it? your first paragraph is pretty much saying "here's our balance changes for the classes". I certainly hope not.
I'm assuming there's more...and you just wanted to put that out as soon as possible so all the PvP'ers wouldn't leave before the patch to try out other games.
I hope they are looking at class balance seriously...I hope that all that effort people put into those posts on the forums where you asked us our opinions was worth it.
I just...man, I read that and my hopes just dropped. really? you've been quiet for this long about the mighty 1.4....and when you finally come out, it's all about PvP?
well...the merc interrupt is really needed. glad it only took you 10 months to figure it out. I wont groan internally then next time I get the battle of Ilum and we have 2 mercs for DPS. this is a good thing.
I'm still up in the air about the change to the smash skills....i liked the radius. cone...not so sure. well see. Honestly, I would just like some feedback that this isn't it for work on classes.
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I think the biggest issue is that there simply aren't many other venues for SW game fans to get their fix. those that come in and talk about SWG were part of the small niche of people that loved SWG, and was looking for a replacement after NGE killed it. it's not surprising that many landed here!
And I agree that there are some aspects of MMO's that Bio could learn from SWG. but your being narrow minded by saying that these things were a SWG specific thing. many MMO's throught the past had many of the elements you are talking about. you just found a balance of them that you liked in SWG.
Which is fine. I won't berate that here, can't really....SWG sounds like it was a fun game. but it was far in it's coffin before I ever heard about it.
the biggest issue is, aside from some of the more basic requests (player housing, better space battle, etc.) many of the aspects of SWG that you loved were based on the game mechanics, and to replicate them in this game would take more dev time then it's worth. it's like trying to turn a toyota truck into a ferrari...though they are both cars, they're intent and design is so far different that the cost of trying to make the truck perform like a testarossa isn't even worth it.
many people who played SWG loved the class system. isn't feasible here. They'd have to drop everything the put into the class game as it is and rewind the clock do that. although I'd love to see improvements in space battles, creating an open space universe to fight/rob other players/smuggle in would be tantamount to making a whole new game. isn't gonna happen.
But many of the examples are great. open worlds, more customization, faster speeders (and multiple passenger ones as well)...these are all simple changes and additions that are fine, and would make the game better. but SWG didn't invent this stuff. it was in Evercrack, LotRO, many others, some of them before SWG was even an idea. so it's not really a good comparison. the things that made SWG different and unique among the other MMO's that offered many of these surface things you mention is its game mechanics...which will be impossible to implement from a resource point of view.
So yea, this game could use many of those changes. and many of those things were in SWG....along with many other MMO's. so although I agree with some things, this post is really looking like a "I miss SWG and you should be it's replacement and your not Bio! shame on you!" thread.
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welcome back OP.
I really enjoy the game, and I think that if you take the time to learn the class again, you will probably enjoy it. Or you honestly may want to try another class instead.
When I first started playing. I rolled a jedi consular immediately (ran shadow). it was fun, but rotations were boring to me. i tried a guardian, and had a REAL hard time getting used to the rotation. i also was not a fan of the attack animations. went back to my shadow and played a bit more till I was used to the game. then tried the Juggernaut (sith version of guardian). it was still abit difficult, but i pushed through and persevered. once I got used to the rotation I loved the class!
I tried an agent many many times, and i simply could not get into the skill rotation. I know that other people like it, so I know its not borked. But the playstyie obviously isn't suited to me.
Each class had it's own strengths and playstyles. perhaps you should just try a few others, and maybe its simply a different class playstyle that will appeal to you.
or try sith side. sometimes the animations themselves make a difference. I felt more comfortable on the Juggernaut then the guardian mostly due to how the skills flowed (Im a very visual person when it comes to stuff like that). you may play another class and eventually come back to your sentinel.
and on the DPS thing...every DPS AC in game right now pumps out enough DPS to fit in fine in the hardest stuff in the game. sentinels and their sith counterpart, the Maurader, are both highly valued in Ops groups for their damage output, as well as their group buffs.
So i say go for it! perhaps start a new one, try the sith version! dromund Kass is a great planet to try out...very dim and murky, has a great mysterious feel to it, and the ancient sith temple they are exploring and revealing has an awesome sinister/haunted feel to it! if you haven't tried sith side yet, I'd say roll a maurader. and read up on rotations. the maurader's rotation was a bit easier then my jugg's in many ways. but they do have allot of additional skills that aren't always used.but if you run into any hitches, post in the forum for that class and ask people for what they use and how they go about it. it may help out allot.
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there's his link in torhead. not much data, but someone lists his position. Just started my new agent, so ill be looking out for this one.
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Really folks. there's not really much of a difference between these two statements.
"The reason players can't play is the subscription fee."
"the reason players don't play is they don't think the game is worth the subscription fee.:"
They really are the same thing, in context. GW2 is sub free...do you think anyone is going to say it's not worth the sub fee? Of course not...because there IS NO SUB. But what if they added a 15$ sub? would it be worth it then? how many people would drop the game at the 15$ mark. what if they raised it to 30$? i betcha 95% of their population would leave in short order. The game was the same, only the sub fee changed.
Subs are relative. Free is not. so if many people thought the game wasn't worth the sub, how many would come back if it was free? that's the crux of the thing. you can say it wasn't worth the sub, or you can say the sub was a "barrier" in playing...it's all the same cookie. Question is...how much is the game worth to you? if 15$ is a barrier, is 10$ ? what about 5$. Free is a given...can't get cheaper then that. EA feels that its worth f2p at this point. many currently playing will retain their subs. many will drop sub and go f2p. many new will come in since its free to try AND play, and many will probably come back, because that game was fun, but not worth 15 a month.
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Combat medic!
Please
I want to be able to heal and dps at the same time
I think the best option for this would be a class that required melee to heal. though WoW capitalized on this recently, it's been in MMO's for along time now. a Hybrid wouldn't fit this mold....the current best example of a successful battle healer/buffer to me is the captain from LotRO. had shielding abilities that they can assist a shield brother with (toggle a group member..he gets the benefits) heals that come from hitting other mobs, special abilities that are procced only after defeating a mob...some of the best buffs in the game...they are their best in the thick of the battle in a group of players. and they weren't a hybrid as much as an individual class who's abilities increased the more people they were with. fun class.
It was my original thought way back when they had made the jedi consular. bit it didn't end up that way sadly. so i would think the Jedi would have that kind of healer....a battle medic if its a non force version, can't think of a good name for a jedi equivalent.
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Ingredients are key. you need to have quality flour, use fresh or filter water, and make sure your... oh wait, you meant hybrid spec
yeah, my jokes are cheesy. what can i say.
Question is....what is your priority? do you tank more then you solo play? or is solo play more of what you do? the key with a hybrid is you want to crawl up one tree first. the sooner you can get to the nice juicy skills, the better. then you work up the other.
So if you tank in groups 75% of the time, then I'd start in the immortal tree. If you tend to prefer to solo, with groups as a filler, then I'd start with the vengeance tree. Rage is a good tree, but it doesn't synergize as well with immortal as vengeance does (and most people are looking to tank and dps with their hybrids).
After leveling 2 juggs to 50, and i have a half dozen at various levels from 12-37 on various servers...this is my favorite approach to leveling a jugg. Please note that i usually prefer the vengeance tree 100% of the time, but this also works well for a bybrid build.
the build I will give you is this:
You can sub a few points here and there, but this gives you great DPS with enough mitigations to tank anything below a HM Op. you could drop a few points and move them over to Decimate in the Rage tree (love that talent), but this gives you the best aspects of the immortal tree with the best aspects of the vengeance tree. you can adjust to your taste.
But up to level 20, I prefer a very specific approach. once you hit 20, you can respec and go fully into vengeance. once you get up to impale (and deafening defense) you can start in the immortal tree. But before 20, here's where i put my points. the idea is to maximize what your getting from the few measly points you have prior to 20. max out these skills in this order:
Enraged Sunder
Decimate
Single Saber Mastery
that gives you extra rage at those lower levels where rage is hard to come by. it also gives you an extra 3% defense in Soresu, and 6% force damage in shii-cho. and it reduces your smash CD (which is a big damage dealer early on) and increases it's damage. those are by far the best skills pre-20 you can get on your Jugg. once your 20, just respec into the vengeance tree, making sure you pick up Shien form, and work your way up from there.
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I recently replaced my last accuracy enhancement with a shield one since everyone keeps saying that jugg tanks don't need accuracy but I noticed a huge difference in threat generation because I miss way too often. We are currently progressing through EC HM and we've wiped three times because Stormcaller kept turning and cleaving the dps. I wish it was a bug but judging by constant miss, miss, dodge, miss, dodge messages I'm pretty confident that it was a legitimate aggro pull. My accuracy is 91% and my str is 1691 (if it at all matters).
Don't really know what I'm asking here but any tips would be welcome. Thanks!
the perception of Jugg's not needing accuracy grew from the early columi days when (and still) Bio had stacked TONS of accuracy on our gear. So accuracy got demonized, and people tried to avoid it as much as possible.
But with BH and campaign gear available nowadays, and all the mods available without accuracy, you don't have to just Shun it. It sill is an important stat, but it is like hit in WoW...or any other stats of its kind. once you get to the threshold with the stat, you simply don't need any more.
But prior to that threshold, it can be an important stat, as you've noticed. the threshold you want is 100% accuracy. some say you can get by with 96 or greater. I currently have 97, and it seems to do me fine. the only other source of accuracy we have other then gear is the talent in the Vengeance tree, so the choice is up to you. Personally, I would rather spend a few points in a talent that gives you a solid percentage boost then to have to itemize it in your gear. because you can always get more power and crit in your gear....but you can't get it from talents.
so you may want to throw back in a few enhancements with accuracy on them. or add the talent into your build. or a combination of both I tend to run with just one point in the talent now. But I used to have 3, back when my gear was not as good.
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welcome to the class OP. it's my favorite, bar none. got 2, working on a third. Jamie was spot on....I'll just add a few more details into the mix. Keep in mind that these are in addition to Jamies points.
1) If it's hard to find/work on an optimized rotation, keep this in mind: you generally have enough time in-between sunders for two skills. use the ones you think you need the most. the important stuff is: keep your bleeds up, sunder as often as you can (on CD), and make sure you don't scream unless you have the buff up from impale or shatter.
2) when it comes to mods, I'd highly recommend leveling cybertech (or buy off the AH). the mods you get from commendations are not optimized for DPS...they're just easy to get. Like Jamie said...strength should be the highest stat on the mod. if endurance is higher, it's not the right mod for you. As you get higher, you'll see other stats pop up too (usually on either the enhancements, or the 'mod' mod itself, not on the armor mod). The DPS stats you want are: power, crit rating, and surge. Generally in that order. once you hit 50, you'll want to optimize crit to 30%, surge to 75% or higher, and then power. but until 50, just go for them in that order...power, crit, and surge.
and level cybertech. I know there's allot of debate on what craft is "best", but bar none cyber is the best for leveling. I will actually cycle through a few trades once i hit 50, but I tend to prefer cyber for leveling. if you have an alt, you can easily funnel materials to them and level Cybertech on them instead of your main toon....whatever works for you. but cyber is the only real source for the best optimized mods for a DPS Juggernaut. quest gear is bad. Flashpoint gear is good...but if you look at the individual mods, you'll find that they tend to favor endurance over str on those as well. Cyber is where it's at.
3) learn to utilize our utility in groups. far too often, i see DPS juggs just....DPS. People are amazed when i leap over to a ranged mob, turn around and force push it into the rest of the mobs so the tank can pick it up. Or interceded on the healer every cooldown (or the other DPS) so they don't pull aggro. Or simply yank (i.e. taunt) a mob off the tank at the last second because he's low and the healer needs to recover resources (btw...mara's dont have a taunt skill, one advantage we do have...I've saved many a pull because of taunt, even as a DPS jugg). taunt the mob, Blow your defensive CD and give the tank and healer 10 seconds or so to catch up. We have allot of versatility that goes unnoticed because players think that DPS = spam damage attacks.
I've had people joke about me looking like a ping pong ball
But they are also impressed with how much stuff a jugg can do. but when you just sit there and hit things....people wonder why they brought you instead of a maurader, or Mercenary. So get used to using all of your skills..You'll be better at your class, impress others...and it looks hella-cool at the same time If you want to do something that's fun as heck, practice this rotation enough so you can do it in groups. Leap to a mob, give it a sunder, force choke it, force push it into the other group of mobs (or into a wall..or off a cliff), throw your saber at it, leap at it again...sunder again...and hit it with impale. if you don't feel like a real "juggernaut" at that point, there's something wrong
i still get giddy every time I use that routine -
Wade is correct. a well played Jugg can be within 5% of a Mara. given optimal environment. a few things come into play that can change the outcome.
1) after leveling both, I find that a Mara is simply easier to get the DPS out of. I had to work hard to refine my skill use on my jugg, where with my Mara it just sort of comes out. spam burst, maintain, spam burst....the basic DPS rotaion is simpler on a mara.
2) this falls in with #1 a bit. The current popular build for Mara's in Ops heavily emphasizes bleeds...Mara's bleeds are better then a Jugg's, and this is an advantage in fights where there's movement involved...and there's allot of movement in Op fights.
3) Player perception. Even if Juggs were 100% the DPS of Mara's, people would still believe Mara's were top DPS...because so-and-so said so, and I know he knows what he's doing. Perception is the biggest killer of Jugg DPS. Add into that the perception of the range bias in Ops (which has solid foundation in truth...just look at the second boss in LI, the robot....people dread having melee DPS in pugs in that place).
4) Jugg's can tank, but rarely is an off-tank needed in an Op. they excel in small group situations, where being able to control and survive a mob on you helps (plus all of our other utility), but in an Op, the Mara's group heals + the Maras group DPS boost (on a medium CD), really stand out .
When I say stand out, I mean that its visible when they do it...most people don't notice the continual armor reduction Jugg's provide...because it's always there. it's a good debuff too...but people just don't notice it. But when a Mara pops BT....everyone sees the temporary spike in damage. it's like a crit...people always see crits, but they often ignore bleed damage numbers, which is why a DoT class looks like it does less damage then a burst class, even if it doesn't. In the same way, the marauders group buff looks great...and people ignore the armor debuff we provide from beginning to end....because its on the mob, easy to miss, and always there.
It's things like that that skew the perception of players in favor of the Mara. Add in the fact that even when optimally played (both classes), Jugg's are still around 5% behind Mara's. Both can put out enough DPS for a group to survive and beat the harshest Ops in the game....but that extra 5% just looks better.
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Well known bug. Not sure if they are working on a resolution or not. make sure you /bug it every time it happens.
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I agree fully with what one of the posters said: don't try to fit in. You're different, embrace that and be yourself. MMOs seem to be a gathering place for people with a wide variety of so-called mental disorders, from depression (myself) to autism to schizophrenia. One of my best friends ingame (for years already, we came over together from WoW), is an autist.
The reason he likes me so much, is that I treat him no different than anyone else. I don't put up with him if he's being annoying or obnoxious, I just tell him flat out. I do make allowances for his condition. I am mindful of the fact that he doesn't get sarcasm (unfortunately, my usual MO), which doesn't mean I'm not sarcastic towards him, I just realize he probably won't get it. It does make for very funny conversations sometimes, he's so Sheldonesk. I am also mindful of his unending chattyness, however, if it gets on my nerves, I tell him in no uncertain words to shut up. Which he does... for like 5 mins, lol. Maybe the most important thing I'm mindful of, is that he doesn't get subtle hints. I hardly ever beat around the bush, but with him I tend to be outright blunt. He appreciates all that, because, as he says himself, he may lack some people skills by nature, but he's working hard to acquire them by nurture.
The reason I like him so much, is that he's highly intelligent, funny as hell (sometimes unintentionally) and a very loyal friend. He also made me realize that I shouldn't take my own (rather good) people skills for granted
Wonderful post Sauska. It is a good reminder that people who have emotional/behavioral disorders are still people, and we need to treat them as such. They can also be some of the most amazing people you'll ever meet.
To the OP: I remember my first day in Boot camp in the Navy. I had gotten 3 hours of sleep (they keep you up late the night before on purpose). and I was woken up by a garbage can being kicked down the center aisle of the little room we were bunked in. After the crazy abrupt awakening, they drug us down to a room full of boxes, and shoved a bunch of recruit gear at us, and told us to change, and gave us a box to mail our stuff (all of it) back to our parents, or they would burn it. our choice.)
After that we all got our heads shaved, and next thing you knew, a bunch of ragtag kids were standing in line in blue sweats and shaved heads (my head certainly looks weird shaved!) while a drill instructor hollered at us.
But one thing stuck out clearly. after your typical movie type yelling session, the instructor turned to us and said, "I am her to train the soldier in you. Nothing I do is personal, and you need to remember that. It will save your hide." my buddy and I made sure we remembered that. It ended up being the one thing that allowed me to survive in there. the people that didn't make it, bar none, were the ones that took everything that was happening to them personally.
So how in the world does this impact you in a game? well, you have to understand how the internet jerkwad theory works.
Penny Arcade's version of the Jerkwad Theory
Scuze the language. Here's the way you have to see it. Those people are victims of the GIFT (acrony for the link above). they get online, and forget that there's another person with real feelings on the other side of that link. many of them would not act the same way in person.
This doesn't excuse their actions, but it explains them. so basically...don't get emotionally invested in the people that spam chat cause their PvP players and are bored waiting for their next PvP match. The people you want to get involved with are those that you find in your guild, when you choose one. Choose one that is relaxed, a leveling guild or perhaps a family friendly guild (FF guilds will often have a much more open approach to the game then a hard progression guild). Find people that enjoy spending time in game with you, and those are the peeps that you want to pay attention to.
Ignore the rest. And if you get a weird or bad response in chat, just reply with "thank you for showing how GIFTed you are!" ignore them, and move along. the nice thing about ignore, is you never have to see them type again.
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Exactly. Language exists to serve communication, and never to rule over it.
I thought that comment was so amazing It deserves repeating. Language exists to communicate...it's the reason it came about in the first place. I don't need to know all the details of Latin suffixes and prefixes to get someone to help me kill an elite. Though it certainly helps if im trying to understand what the doctor is saying about my son's health.
I think that aside from the general conditioning we receive in our culture (you must follow the rules of english that we were given in school), we also tend to judge based on forms of communication. if someone comes up to us in game and says, "i hep u now" we think...jeez, this guys really needs to go back to school.
Yet...we completely understood what he said. for the most part. and it didn't take any longer to process that (for me that is) then it would to process, "I can help you now". to me it's about communication. if you CAN'T understand what they are saying....well that's a different story.
however, I find no issues with holding certain standards in communication (which was what our grade school English classes were all about). But I simply make sure I'm holding them in the right context. some of the ways I type in game I would never use at work in a meeting room or in emails. different environments. And I have the full capability to understand the difference.
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I leveled 2 Dps warriors, one being a juggernaut. My 0.02 is that any of the companions can be "the best companion" as long as you keep them up to date with their gear. I used Jaesa since the moment I got her til 50. I died to total number of 5 times mostly because I was impatient. There is no enemy in the game that you can't beat (comparable level of elite or lower) that cant be won by sending your companion in first til she hits about 80% then charging in and taunting off when she reaches 20% HP.
Conversely, Having a healer makes things considerably slower (i've timed identical encounters), but you have less of a chance to dying to stupid mistakes. So the choice is really yours. Do you want a DPS companion to help you burn down things a heck of a lot faster? (Vette is better at this since she doesnt have to run to another target when the first one dies) or do you want to have a healer and kill things slower but much less of a chance to die?
I probably should be fair to the other companions too. they all have their highlights, and can be used if you set things up well. so if your someone who really wants to enjoy all the companions, they are definitely viable to do so with. However, I have leveled a few myself (2, working on a third, and have one stuck in his 30's on another server). I would hesitate to say its drastically slower though..you need to include downtime after an event as well. I've watched timers on mine...but I count total time from one mob to the next. there actually pretty close to the same...the difference comes in when you run into Oh sh** situations. extra mob pulls, or you forget to interrupt the nasty spell cast....or you didn't realize that it was an elite instead of a silver. with quinn, you still get up and head on out.
My test was on quesh with quinn vs. jaesa. i specced full vengeance and full immortal for both (pre1.3). and the downtime inbetween mobs was just too frustrating for me with jaesa, whereas with quinn it was just non-stop. kill one, move to the next.
I have rarely died with my other companions...but none of the others allows me to walk off the mobs without any downtime whatsoever. having my companion reduced to 30% or so isn't death...but I still have to regen her health...or mine...or a combination of both. so the "extra kill speed" is quickly eaten up by the downtime recovering from mobs.
I think that it really depends on how you like to play your jugg. I prefer continual killing with zero or little downtime. the downtime i experience on my DPS toons makes it not fun. this is pre columi gear though...on my current 50 with columi/rakata/BH (about an even split on all), I kill stuff so fast it doesn't matter who i bring (both jaesa and quinn are columi geared as well). but leveling I preferred quinn for my playstyle.
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I believe this is true. that looks like the cave i went to kill the guy to get the stuff and i was light side at the time of the thing.
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I'm not surprised that cost keeps coming up in this thread. Bio really needs to listen to this...I think they heard it, but they're really not listening.
the cost is simply prohibitive. I have grown tired of dailies. I don't mind a quick BH run, Yet I have to consistently grind dailies just to keep up. a new piece of armor may throw of my set bonus...or now i have to augment that too. or I get a BH piece, and i want 2 mods from it, but I don't want to lose the mods currently in my worn piece. that's. 120k plus right there. That's everything i made in my BH run, including the weekly reward and running 4 man heroic. or that's belasivis dailies (and who isn't burnt out on those yet?).
the COST is simply getting tiring. regearing a single piece of gear shouldn't cost me my days wages. regearing completely is understandable. but a single piece?
I'd even be OK with 15k per high end mod. and adjusting downwards as we get higher tiers of gear coming in (i.e. the highest level tier will always be 15k) 31k per mod is simply too much.
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you are in a tough spot. prior to 1.3, it wasn't that bad. but Immortal took a nasty hit on personal DPS, which really impacts your killing potential.
On a flip note: I'm currently tanking most the HM's in vengeance spec with tank gear and Soresu. most of that is me outgearing the instances, but with the current vengeance tree setup, you'd be surprised at how much mitigation you get. My suggestion is to start pumping defensive stats into your gear, and respec vengeance. or run up the immortal tree until you get invincible, then start in the vengeance tree. Id just run up vengeance, and gear up for defensive stats. the biggest benefit (imo) in the immortal tree right now is the stun you get, the instant force choke, and the extra rage from soresu. but you don't get those till very high in the tree...so you'd need to be 35 or higher to get all those benefits.
Vengeance has a ton of juicy DPS (read threat), more rage then you know what to do with (in Shien form), and enough mitigation skills that you'll probably be fine for most lower level tanking situations. and you'll kill stuff faster when solo.
I've tried a few hybrid builds, and this one I like the best for a 60/40 playstyle (60% solo, 40% groups):
there are a few others, but i like this one because it gets the best from the vengeance tree (reduced scream CD, unstoppable, etc), and you get the benefit of insta-choke and your sonic barrier. I would start in the vengeance tree though, and work up to impale/deafening defense. then start up the immortal tree. then you would use Shien form for solo work (and run with Quinn if you want trouble free mowing down of mobs), and then switch over to Soresu for your tanking instances.
20's in general can feel slow for juggs. Vengeance has a great rage production by that time, but not many skills to spend it on (you end up spamming vicious slash allot). Rage gets obliterate, but suffers from rage production early on. Immortal just sucks balls. once you hit 30 though, they start to take off (except immortal...it's still blowing a dead goat, though some of its control is really nice). rage start to produce super smashes, and vengeance starts to shine with impale and all it's bleeds (and a free smash is golden). so stick it out man. roll vengeance, stick with quinn at the moment, and it gets better. much better
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I despise the fact that we as a community can't seem to do anything other than repeatedly state how much we hate the game.. That is hardly contructive, and if you hate the game so much.. Why are you posting here in the first place??
For a few reason. One, there's not many other places they can go to. two, feedback starts usually with a concern. sometimes the "concerns" get out of hand. but this one i agree with allot.
My issue isn't necessarily the but-ugly gear (no offense to those that like...I'm not a fan). it's the fact that I have to take a severe hit to use it unless I'm in campaign gear (which very small portion of the populace really has). some class specs get a huge bonus from their set bonuses. but if i want those, then this whole "customizable" thing they threw at us is out the window.
and this is in addition to the enormous cost of switching gear. I know im going off track a bit, so ill end that tangent here. But it is part of what makes this whole gear design issue paramount IMO. if I could customize ALL the gear in this game, I could care less about what the real gear looks like.
I found a shirt/pants combo that I just loved on my new PT. the only problem was, the shirt was a white lvl 2 item from the starter planet. Now, if i was in LotRO (which has to date one of the best customization processes out there), then I could throw that cool looking rustic garb outfit together on one of my costume sets, and It wouldn't impact my real gear whatsoever.
My real set could look like the reincarnation of the fly meets the swamp thing....but on the outside, I'm rustic farm-girl with a few blaster slung on my belt. now THAT's customization....and it would make all the arguments about the gear design TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. well, about 95% irrelevant. there's a few that would still gawk at the sheer absurdity of the designs...but they still wouldn't care that much because they could still look like whatever they wanted!
I have no clue why Bio insists on locking us into this horrible gear swapping process...when adding tabs and swapping skins is all it would take. perhaps there's a mechanical limitation...I dunno. but the current system is forcing many to wear gear that they can barely look at, and in all honesty, that's a bad design decision. there are many out there that are directly and largely impacted by how their characters look
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Any good MMO have their focus on all their gameplay elements, they don't cater to just one crowd, this ain't GW2
Many do. I don't dispute that. I just don't believe that it's the healthiest approach from a gameplay perspective. IMHO, LotRO did it the best...they advertised very early on that PVP was NOT going to be a main focus, and was actually going to be a "side" game, isolated almost completely from the PvE player populace.
Any time you get a game that tries to satisfy both crowds with the same set of rules ends up disappointing a large portion of each. go back and read some of ghostcrawlers blogs on their eventual finding with PvP and they're design. very informative, and they probably have one of the best track records with this kind of mix (PvP in a PvE world). mixing the two just isn't a beneficial approach...it's a marketable one. As a dev you simply get more subs.
this can help the player base in ways, because more subs = more money for development. but overall i think the price you pay outweighs the benefits. neither side is really fully satisfied.
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I agree with that, but also just because they aren't the majority doesn't mean their money spends any different and should be neglected... Haven't we learned anything from the civil rights movement lol
I agree. I also support the idea that if they have PvP in the game, that they should develop it well. And I agree that PvP players should have a say in the development of the PvP. Most of my enlargement was against the idea that PvP players were the "largest percentage of the population" and the silly example the OP gave to prove this historically inaccurate data.
our biggest issue is most MMO companies are hush about actual figures like this....I've browse serious research blogs on the subject, and most companies wont give it out....a few will "allow" people to ask the questions on the forums, but the responses are voluntary....and usually small, and not the greatest representation of the population. so most the data we get is from Dev blogs, or articles.
to give credit to TUX, SOA did publish some good numbers on SWG, probably one of the best publicy distributed examples. Oly downside is SWG was a totally different game then this one...it's one of the examples that will show a heavy PvP population BECAUSE it's a PVP game. open world PvP (endless actually), is the kind of environment that attracts PvP players. AIon is very similar..I bet that if you polled AIon, it would have extremely high percentage of PvP players. but poll a Pve game, like WoW, or LotRO ....or SWtOR (important point here), and you'll see the opposite.
PvP games attract PvP players. PvE games attract PvE players. PvE games with optiona PvP attract mostly P)vE players, and a small group of serious PvP players. Aion had a small PvE culture when I was playing it. it didn't have a big one, because it was first and foremost a PvP game.
the think about the OP's post is he wants to take a PvE game, and turn it into a PvP game...and he's using nonsensical data to try and back it up. which wont work. there's nothing against making PvP better in this game. But this is one of the big reasons I DIDN'T want PvP in this game. In all actuality, as a player who likes both (if they are designed well), I'd prefer game to focus solely on only one aspect. when you try to put both in the mix, posts like this on pop up.
But it is here to stay. PvP that is. and nothing wrong with it being there. but the OP can't call it the "majority", because it simply isn't.
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Without evidence it means nothing. The metric I used may be flawed (which I admit in the first post), but at least it is backed up by irrefutable evidence. You have provided none. You stated your opinion (until you post a link to a major MMO dev stating that it is 5-10% it is ONLY your opinion and nothing more).
your metric is not flawed. It is unusable. Period.
I can go over to the PvP forums right now, and post 1000 times, and it will prove...that I posted 1000x. your numbers will look better, but in no way will it "prove" that more people play PvP then PvE (I don't play PvP in this game at all). Plus, if you look at the actual posts, they will further be broken down into small groups of people that post ALLOT...and then a large group of people that post once or twice.
It has no capability to prove anything about player populations friend. your argument is valid, though your data is not even close to being appropriate.
read the posts in this thread. About 3/4 of them are from the exact same people. so if you take out all those posts, and count all of us who are spamming in here as one post, this thread would probably only be a few pages long. that in itself drastically skews your numbers. Add in that historically, PvP players are always more vocal, and this skews it even more.
It's just not the right data man. You have a viewpoint, and your looking for data to prove it, rather then seeing data that shows a point. the only thing that your data shows is that there are more posts in the PvP forum then the PvE ones. which occurs in every MMO I've played...and I've played a few.
Problem is...I support your desire for more and better PvP. If they fixed the broke-a%$ system that they currently have in place for lvl 50 PvP, i may be interested in trying it out. I'm not arguing your point, Im saying that the numbers don't match based on historically known information. you're saying that the number of posts (not even the # of posters) in the PvP forums is proof that more people play PvP. and there is NOWHERE in the industry that this is used as a basis for statistics. at all. And I'm saying that historically, the amount of people (not posts...PEOPLE) that post in the forums is small in comparison with the amount of people that play...and this has historically been shown by real statistics.
sith jugg leveling help
in Guardian / Juggernaut
Posted · Edited by Elyx
So true. my longest posts are usually on these kinds of threads. Im OK with it today though...work is boring, and got time on my hands
OP: even though the forum guides are a bit "dated", nothing for a DPS jugg has changed much. Rage has dropped a bit in effectiveness (though after 1.4 this won't really be the case). Immortal's DPS has been gutted to the point that its detrimental (IMO) to level as one compared to the DPS specs. rotation really doesn't exist until 50. but when leveling, prioritize sunder on CD...it is THE rage builder for us. ravage would be next, and as you gain skills you'll want to add them to the fold. Rage has a totally different prio list then Vengeance, as does Immortal, so even though Im long winded, I really don't feel like giving you an A to Z...there's plenty of time as you level to learn the class.
when leveling, you will want Quinn. You can run the DPS companions if your immortal spec, but the damage cut we got doesn't make it really worth it at the higher levels. Id go Vengeance (or Rage post 1.4). I use Vette until I get quinn (he's your next comp), and use him solely to cap.
the DPS comps are fun, but in DPS spec pre-50, you will incur enough downtime that using them isn't as efficient as using quinn. There's allot of personal opinions about both, but after leveling multiple jugg's, and running some rough true time numbers (actual time it takes to kill the same amount of mobs in the same areas), DPS spec with quinn pulls ahead of Immortal with X DPS comp, or DPS spec with DPS comp.
But it's not enough to keep those who really want a "tanky" feel to have to worry about it. Some people are fine with running a DPS comp, but be prepared to have significant downtime between fights healing you or your comp on a regular basis. But realistically...whatever approach you enjoy the best will probably win out. Even if DPS + quinn is faster, if it feels like a drag to pull him out and use him, you won't enjoy it, even if it is faster. so try them all out and see what you like.
But keep in mind that unless they are equally geared, it isn't a good comparison at all. hoping over to Jaesa the second you get her will be a big disappointment...she is in all greens, and if you've been using quinn or Vette up tothen, they will probably be in a decent mix of blues and some purples...jaesa's output wont' compare until you get her equally geared. so make sure you are giving them a fair shake with appropriate gear before you write them off.
up to level 20, I'd max these 3 skills (in order):
Sundering Assault
Decimate
Single Saber Mastery
They will provide you with the most bang for your buck pre-20 (where you get the 10pt talents). the form you play in is inconsequential early on. prior to 20, unless your going rage Id actually suggest soresu form. the damage mitigation helps out early on, and the other stances don't provide enough of a DPS boost to matter pre-20.
at 20 if you want to do full blown rage or Vengeance, respec and pick up the 10 pt. skill from either tree (Shien form for vengeance, and Obliterate for rage). prioritize mods/gear that have higher Str bonuses then Endurance bonuses...even if your going the tank route. Endurance as a stat is inferior to your main stat 80% of the time. the only time i pick high End is when the piece is an obvious upgrade in more then one stat.
Other then that, just pay attention, and learn to use all your skills. An example: I was amazed at how few juggs use their hilt strike when soloing. It can easily down one weak mob in a single shot (which means its one less mob to beat on you...and that's a HUGE difference for a leveling jugg). but most people don't like using it because it's "only on a stunned mob". The solution is to always target a weak mob when you leap. smash right afterwords, and the automatically hilt strike...and it's dead.
stuff like that. Jugg is all about optimizing how and when to use your skills. i know most classes say the same thing (I play allot more classes as well), but none of my other classes are impacted as heavily as my jugg when I'm NOT optimizing skill use. It's one of the reasons Jugg can gain a rep for being "bad DPS". it's mostly lack of optimization in those cases. Your also VERY gear dependent...we put out a craptun of physical DPS, and our stats and especially weapon damage impacts this heavily