Tiresias Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Then I don't think MMOs are for you. Play this for a single player game and once you've done the content you will be bored. Believe me, its in BioWare's best interest to make some big changes sharpish. Actually, I don't think this game is for YOU. Bioware has done a great job of intertwining story with multiplayer gameplay. They even found an elegant yet simple solution to allow all players to participate in a conversation with multiple branching choices. I am frequently as entertained by the conversation options in a Flashpoint as I am the content itself -- that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Who'd turn down free money? Sure, they'd take 10 million subscribers if they could get it. But they're not sacrificing their game and turning it into WoW to do so, and neither should SWTOR. They have unique ideas and a unique vision, and maybe cloning WoW would get them 10m subscribers but they're not going there. They're following their own vision. And thank god for that, because otherwise every game in the world would be WoW with a different skin. Their own vision? They are out to make money not invent some beautiful online reality for people to frollock around in. You can't say this game is doing the right thing and will succeed for 'following their own vision'. If they could be like WoW they would, they would happily sell their game's core idea if it would make them that much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, I don't think this game is for YOU. Bioware has done a great job of intertwining story with multiplayer gameplay. They even found an elegant yet simple solution to allow all players to participate in a conversation with multiple branching choices. I am frequently as entertained by the conversation options in a Flashpoint as I am the content itself -- that's a good thing. Okay. But for how long? I might ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiern Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yes, many MMORPG players want story. Most MMORPG's are rather sparse on the RPG part. It is not the most important thing, but it is a nice addition. Unlike the OP who feels the story drags out the amount of time it takes to kill things and get the quest reward, many of us aren't in that big of a hurry, and feel the story makes the game feel less grindy, and more involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I am frequently as entertained by the conversation options in a Flashpoint as I am the content itself -- that's a good thing. And this is how you know you are in the tiny minority of players for whom "once upon a time" instantly mesmerizes you. And this is why the game will fail. Because it's written for you and not for MMO players. Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 They always say the same thing. Are savagely against End game because they think it means the 'end of the game'. They are the first ones to let the sub lapse when they consume the static content. No use in trying to tell them. Lol ikr. Its like the MMO universe meets battle re-enactment society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It is if they want this game. If they don't want story then there are plenty of other cookie cutter MMOs they can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynfox Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Who'd turn down free money? Sure, they'd take 10 million subscribers if they could get it. But they're not sacrificing their game and turning it into WoW to do so, and neither should SWTOR. They have unique ideas and a unique vision, and maybe cloning WoW would get them 10m subscribers but they're not going there. They're following their own vision. And thank god for that, because otherwise every game in the world would be WoW with a different skin. Wait what?!?! I'm not sure if troll or not.... Must resist!>!>! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) It is if they want a Star Wars MMO. If they don't want Star Wars then there are plenty of other cookie cutter MMOs they can play. Fixed it for you. Edited January 2, 2012 by Uben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxonfly Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I don't know about all MMO players, but Yes damn it, I want a Great Story! Good Stories it what drives me to play any game, if there is no Story in it, then what's the point?..SWtOR has a great story, and I love interacting with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaye Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 LoTRO had to go F2P to be "quite successful." Warhammer is far from "quite successful." AoC and Warhammer are both at SWG level population pre-NGE. In fact, both of those games almost certainly have smaller populations than SWG did pre-NGE. Warhammer is down to what? 5 servers? And AoC was down to 100K members 6 months after release. It was widely considered one of the biggest flops of all-time. Oh, and by the way, TOR is WAAAAAAY more theme-park than ANY of those games were. Eve is more popular than any of those games and has been for years, and it's as open-sandbox as a game can be. No no LotrO was always doing fine, it's known as the first P2P game that was doing well that just went and decided to go partly F2P because of the immense success of DDO, and was the first indicator that F2P wasn't just for crappy Eastern games anymore. I'll give you Warhammer, that one tanked hard eventually. AoC also knew a huge drop in population, partly because Funcom over assessed it's community at launch and went crazy with the servers, so did WAR actually. AoC also mislead it's community quite a bit, I don't see Bioware doing this. EVE is niche, it's done very well yes but it's a game you can play alongside anything unless you are hardcore into it which a minority would be. It's not as big as you're letting on. I know what TOR is thanks. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You're assuming all MMOs have to be like WoW. WoW style MMOs aren't for me, that's sure as heck. But SWTOR style MMOs are *so* for me, and I'm loving the heck out of this game. Don't think that just because I hate *one* style of MMO, I have to hate them *all*. YOU don't GET it. TOR IS a WoW-style MMO with a story piggy-backed onto it. You are PLAYING the mother of all WoW-clones and telling yourself it's not like WoW. It is WoW without those gameplay elements that make a WoW-style MMO playable. You can't make a game almost identical in its systems to WoW, like TOR is, without also having things like combat log, DPS meters, addons, etc. That's like designing a game around all the worst aspects of WoW, and then bolting a story onto it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoopyDoo Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yes, many MMORPG players want story. Most MMORPG's are rather sparse on the RPG part. It is not the most important thing, but it is a nice addition. Unlike the OP who feels the story drags out the amount of time it takes to kill things and get the quest reward, many of us aren't in that big of a hurry, and feel the story makes the game feel less grindy, and more involved. I see your point. Again I would point out that this is an MMO and it should not be so narrow in its target market. What annoys me is that the game could still focus on story but offer more for players like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Story is very important to some folks, like myself, who don't simply want to exercise the functionality of a game - BioWare made book on engaging story lines, voice talent, and immersive plots. If this game doesn't work for you, if story isn't as important as, say, raid progression, then there are actually dozens of games out there that do cater to the "succession of hamster wheels" gameplay characteristic of current MMOs. And that is why people play single player rpgs not MMOs, yes story is fun but the way they went about it is horrible, especially with the "no middle ground", prime example a bounty hunter or a smuggler.............they are not good or bad they are out for themselves and make decisions on how it better suits THEM. Edited January 2, 2012 by Gunryu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actually, I don't think this game is for YOU. Bioware has done a great job of intertwining story with multiplayer gameplay. They even found an elegant yet simple solution to allow all players to participate in a conversation with multiple branching choices. I am frequently as entertained by the conversation options in a Flashpoint as I am the content itself -- that's a good thing. Social events is one one of the greatest features I've ever seen. I just wish there were more flashpoints with as many choices as black talon. I'd love to see how we can fubar up the entire plot and get everyone killed or have things run all smoothly. It definitely gives some feel to the flashpoint and a reasoning to be in there other then to loot and plunder. Blizzard did a decent job with that in their current patch however their voice acting and writing is... just... so bad that its hard NOT to laugh at the ridiculousness and sheer lack of real emotion between Thrall and Benedictus when you enter Wyrmrest temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyukanoHi Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And this is how you know you are in the tiny minority of players for whom "once upon a time" instantly mesmerizes you. And this is why the game will fail. Because it's written for you and not for MMO players. "Read your own signature." ~~~~ "I love the story, I love the way Bioware did this, and while I have to remove myself from it as an RPer, it gives me a reason to enjoy the rest of the game. Bioware always made it clear what the original goal was, don't like it? Don't play." "This game is far better than WoW by leaps and bounds, and I left WoW specifically because I was so pissed at them over ruining the amazing lore they had created. Let's stop the 'why this will fail' threads, because no one cares, every one starts with a troll and is followed by a bunch of people laughing at the troll with a few pointless debates thrown in." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Fixed it for you. Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) No no LotrO was always doing fine, it's known as the first P2P game that was doing well that just went and decided to go partly F2P because of the immense success of DDO, and was the first indicator that F2P wasn't just for crappy Eastern games anymore. I'll give you Warhammer, that one tanked hard eventually. AoC also knew a huge drop in population, partly because Funcom over assessed it's community at launch and went crazy with the servers, so did WAR actually. AoC also mislead it's community quite a bit, I don't see Bioware doing this. EVE is niche, it's done very well yes but it's a game you can play alongside anything unless you are hardcore into it which a minority would be. It's not as big as you're letting on. I know what TOR is thanks. lol. LoTRO was dying a slow death due to the fact that out of its 200K remaining members, 100K were lifetime subscribers who were no longer paying anything to play the game. The game was failing financially, and was forced to go F2P to survive. Now it's doing well again but, by they way, LoTRO is WAAAAY more of a sandbox than TOR. It has appearance tabs, player housing, Guild Halls, hobbies, a seamless world, more diversity in characters / races you can play, frequent developer events, a more involved crafting system... LoTRO is a very good mix of sandbox and theme-park elements. In fact, LoTRO is what I was hoping SWTOR would be, only SWTOR would have been better because it would have two factions and PvP on release. Instead I got WoW-lite with voice-over. Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Mystic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Firstly, I understand what you are saying. I think, to an extent you have a point. However, I disagree with almost everything you have said. When you term 'MMO Players' it seems like you are refering to WoW players. Even that game in the begining was termed an MMORPG. The RPG being an abreviation of 'Role Playing Game'. Now RPGs the good non computer ones are all about story, but let's focus on video games. Back in the 80's RPGs were mostly text, with little or no graphics. They were all about story, interactive storys that players could get involved in. As the years, or decades even went on we got more graphics, more action game elements. Some games over the years have blurred the lines 'Deux Ex' was part shooter part RPG. I could write multiple essays so I'll stick to my point. I don't think we have ever had a true MMORPG. That is why most online games are now called MMO's rather than MMORPGs, other than it being a mouthfull to say. So yes I think story should be part of MMOs. Currrent generation MMO players who consider WoW the be all and end all of MMOs probably don't want more story than WoW. What they want is exactly WoW with a new skin and some new dungeons. For them maybe story isn't what they want. There are some of us though that have been waiting a long time for an MMO with story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 . Blizzard did a decent job with that in their current patch however their voice acting and writing is... just... so bad that its hard NOT to laugh at the ridiculousness and sheer lack of real emotion between Thrall and Benedictus when you enter Wyrmrest temple. It's better than waiting 5 minutes for someone to pick an answer, and quite honestly I can bet within 2 months people will just be clicking anything just to get through it all the while going "Come on come on" like they already do in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyons Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No, Story is not "that important" It would've been a nice addition to a WoW-Quality MMO; but making a sub-WoW-Quality MMO, just with story sprinkled on, was a bad idea Its been two weeks - why are you still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyln Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 If I wanted a boring game, that can't keep the story straight, I would still play WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 It's better than waiting 5 minutes for someone to pick an answer, and quite honestly I can bet within 2 months people will just be clicking anything just to get through it all the while going "Come on come on" like they already do in WoW. Yeah I hope you all leave with your stupid level of impatience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achromatis Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 trying to beat WoW in the MMO market)[/b] Stopped reading there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunryu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yeah I hope you all leave with your stupid level of impatience. And when they do what are you going to do when the game is gone? Saying you hope people leave is the most idiotic thing anyone can say about a game they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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