This.

As I say thats politics not proof.

The big problem here is that we are talking about a stealth class and what you described is EXACTLY how they should be fighting. If we are having stealth classes in this game. We do, and I think we should then they need to be able to do this. Now I accept that not all players want to fight this kind of enemy. That is why we have PVE servers. Human nature may dictate that players hate stealth classes when they stab them in the back but that does not justify a nerf. Stealth classes are often hated. In fact many that use those tactics enjoy the power they feel over their targets. Have you considered tactical options? Even as simple as fighting in pairs? There are many valid combat tactics that can be used. Getting killed. Having a cry then coming to the forums demanding a nerf is not the way to go.

I believe this thread is abouy proof. Nerfs and patches are not proof. This is a new game and when a huge or seemingly so part of the playerbase complains and whines like children then Bioware will be forced into a position where they have to nerf the class. Nerfing iss not proof. Nerfing is politics. Nerfing is Business. Many, many games have been destroyed due to the players thinking they know best. Look at it over the past few weeks. Nerf this done. Nerf that done. Move onto the next. Compare the threads demanding nerfs to the threads with positive ideas for improving the games and it's features and classes and you may start to see the path we are heading down. Nerfs are a bad sign. Nerf thread are about the worst thing you can see on a games forum.

I think sniper should get maybe upto 50 range while in cover / crouched. This may seem a lot but really it isn't. In most areas be they pvp or on planets doing missions there is only so far you can realistically see and have LOS. It takes maybe 1/2 a second to crouch and about a second to roll into cover. In this time your target could have advanced 5m towards you. Sometimes when you roll into cover you end up upto ~5m away from your traget. Couple this with activation time on abilities and you very rarely feel you have any range advantage. Now a Sorc does not need to use cover. They have energy shields. Force speed to dictate range. Also many other usefull combat and utility skills. Now I'm not say nerf the Sorc. What I am saying is make the sniper a sniper. When facing a sniper targets should be concerned that the sniper will get the first shot. So I say make range of riffle abilities 50m not 35m while in cover. This to me will make the class really work in it's role.

Oh dear. You just don't get it.

You are talking about WoW. This assumption that WoW did everything right is grossly misinformed. Blizzard talked a big game about crafted items in WoW but never lived upto it. That is one of the main reasons why they had to add bonuses to professions such as extra big gems bonus sockets etc. Blizzard are very good at doing gear in games (from what I've seen Bioware have doen a pretty good job here to so im not taking anything away from them) and subsequently failed to deliver with the professions. As someone previously linked some of Biowares statements about crafting you can see that Bioware took a strong standpoint on devising and implementing a good crafting system that was usefull at all levels. What we currently have is a system that is alright for when you are leveling and for equiping companions. Now with the amount of companions we get equiping them with crew skills is not a bad thing. However, this is not the be 'The best Armstech in the Galaxy' system we were promissed. The really annoying thing is that with how this game works a balance were you could get high level gear from ops then improve it with the top level armour mods you bought off your cybertech friend to make the very best armour should be possible. Sadly right not it seems Bioware are nerfing crew skills based on knee jerk reactions from players that notice any difference from WoW. This is bad. What we need is more schematics either RE or drop that allow us to create the best items and mods. As was said pre release some components you may have to get fom Ops, I'm fine with that. Now some people have said that these components should not be BoP. Again this makes sense as it would allow players who want to do high level Ops something to sell or barter with in order to get the gear they want. If crew skills create the BEST items and mods the economy will benefit. Any character can only take one crafting skill so you get a full set of gear they would have to trade with other players witch is good for trade and good for the community. Alternatively they could of course use alts but if the crafting system requires X amount of time and effort then there would still be an ample market for characters who were dedicated to their craft more so than an alt. So what I'm saying is basically a good crafting system is benefical to everyone. Can we improve crafting please.

This man speaks the truth.

I think cover should increase range. I'm thinking 35m-50m. This would at least allow us to get off a shot or two before the melee pain.

I half agree. Everyone should put down their nerf bats and have a reasoned discussion as to how to improve the game. However, most players are so expectant of the nerf cycle that rather than see it is very bad for a game they embrace it and just try to shout the loudest. It is because of this I don't think there should be a combat log. Right now it would just add fuel to the fire. It would allow people to throw random numbers into their uninformed opinions. As you say, right now we need bugs fixing. We need to get the game in a state where players can expirience it bug free before deciding what needs changing.

I don't think range is a role snipers are not supposed to have.

I have an idea. A someone above said you can incorporate more run and gun tactics if you specialise in Lethality. The thing that bugs me most is that snipers do not have the longest range. A Sith sorcerer can hit with their lightning at he same range we snipe. They can also do this without cover. Using cover can also end up putting us further away from our target or at the very least lock us in a position, as perviously mentioned that can make it easy to LOS us. To make Marksmanship useful in pvp here's what I propose. When a sniper goes into cover increase the range of all riffle abilities from 35m - 50m This will allow, in most situtation where the is an opportunity to take advantage of this, for the sniper to get one maybe two shots off before the target gets in range to return fire. This is not a massive advantage because by the time you have used ambush they will have cover most of that distance. What it will do is allow snipers to have a longer range and be able to create a small kill zone where they can shoot but enemies cannot return fire. Note: I appreciate that Smugglers also use cover and I'm not sure the increased range is appropriate for them. I understand that Smugglers are or perhaps should be using cover more defensively than snipers due to the difference in role so perhaps they could be given a different type of cover buff.

A while back people were 'debating' what sort of level items and how usefull they should be would be in this game. Many people ranted and raved and claimed to know the best, right, or only way to make crew skills work. These people came from another game. In that game the best items came from raids. Their equivilent of Operations. They said in no uncertain terms that the best itesm should come from raids and only raids. They considered themselves to be better players doing more difficult things and therefore should get what they want. Most of the crafters were less fervent in their beliefs. As a result the conclusion was made that crew skills should not be able to compete with items from mission drops... I think we are now in a position where Bioware has quite frankly listened to the wrong group of people. The game these people took their opinions from failed to deliver in it's crew skills but at least they made each of their professions give some bonus at high level to offset it's failings. I would very much like to see crew skills buffed to the point that there is a market for crafted gear. I don't mind doing MORE work than the players who get Op and FP drops. I feel strongly that someone who picks a crew skill and works at it, puts in the time and effort should be rewarded.

I'm very much a fan of the Droid companion idea. I've thought about it myself a fair bit. I'd like it to be one of those spider like battle droids packing heavy weapons. I think this should be a cybertech only companion. Consider it to be high maintenance. I think all crew skills should lead to something permanent, passive and usefull. For example Biochems reusable medpacks etc. Give us a craftable droid, maybe a few lower level ones along the lines of protocol droid, mouse droid etc that we can craft as we level the skill. Make Mods usefull, good, or whatever term you prefer. Make it so that we can RE and train to the best of our profession and make the best items. (The raid mentality is a holdover from another game and I won't go into it here) Note on Mods. What I say about useful Mods above goes for all crew skills.

Guess nobody...

Agree. Infact just made a very simerlar post at almost the same time. I think crew skills should make the best items. Also really enjoying the game. Would like this to be the game that is brave enough to say crafting creates the best gear not end game missions.

I took Cybertech expecting to be able to make cybernetic implants... I'd be happy for armourmech to have armouring in addition to it's other categories if I could have implants in cybernetics. I'm sure other skills could have some overlap too. Perhaps this is something Boware should consider.

I've been wanting to post something about this but short of writing a huge essay that I think would probably be lost in the pages of threads I though I'd try to post somthing breif about how I feel. So here goes. Crew skills are an important part of the game, or at least should be. Personnally I don't care about profit / loss or any business model that can or cannot be applied. In my view if crew skills are 'right' the economy will develop around that on it's own accord. People who want to make money will find a way. People talk a lot about 'gear'. Again personnally I think story and RP > Gear. That's my opinion I expect many to disagree. Feel free to. However, I strongly believe that end game flashpoints and operations should NOT be the place to get the best gear. These should be places to get good gear in the same way you can easily upgrade your gear through flashpoints as you level. Players who feel that this is not the case are used to a system wheree this is the case and in the game that I do not wish to keep refering to this is the case and that game does that very well, In fact I belive that company is the best in that type of game and will remain so after about 15 years of making gear grind games. Getting gear is a balance of time and effort. End game FPs + Ops are not a huge challenge. They are enjoyable repeatable missions. Yes, you shoudl get good gear from them but that should not be the be all and end all. If you complete an Op and get a good new weapon that's a fairly easy thing to accomplish. If you do that same Op and get a rare component that allows you to make the best weapon, IF you have the relevant crew skill and have invested tiem into getting good at it you are putting in MORE time and effort than the player who just completed the Op. Is it wrong to think that the player who puts in the effort for components AND crew skills should reap more reward than the player who just completed the mission? From what I've seen of the crew skills, and I've not tryed them all yet, they seem to be there for players who for some reason just want to craft items for the hell of it. I don't think many people want to invest time and effort into making substandard items. I believe that players that want to put the time and effort into their crew skills want to be able to make the BEST armour. weapons, etc. I don't think this is unreasonable. If all crew skills are buffed to the point where they are slightly better than anything you can get by other means then dispite what many players will tell you it will make the game better, better for everyone. Those that want to look at crew skills as a business will be able to because players will have the opportunity to realistically look at whether they want to buy their products instead of concentrating on getting to max level and getting better items. Those that want to equip themselves and their Alts and companions will have a greater sense of acheivement from their crraft as they will be able to make truely worhtwhile items. This post is getting far longer than I planned and I'm in danger of going round in cricles. So to summise. Crew skills should be the way to get the BEST items. Who's with me?

I remember a thread pre launch where many people were complaining that crafters should not be able to make 'good' items. I'm paraphrasing of course. The general statement was that no matter hwo many hours, side quests, gathering or any other factor crafters should never be able to make gear comparable to gear aquired on operations (Think they said Raids but...) I disagree. I think it is fair to say that in order to create the best items, The legendary purple crystals, or the prototype power armour, etc, then you need components that either you have to do operation to aquire or get someone else to get the components for you. However, I believe that these items should be better than premade items you find. Now, there could be some exceptions to this. Say you want to have something like say Revan's Lightsaber and you want it to be truely awesome then you could make that a touch better than crafted stuff. The problem here is that there should be maybe half a dozen to a dozen of these items in the game, in total. Otherwise every patch or expansion, or level cap raise you are adding more and more items that sideline crafting. In summary. You should be able to get good gear from missions and Ops but the best gear should be consitently made by players.

Firstly, I understand what you are saying. I think, to an extent you have a point. However, I disagree with almost everything you have said. When you term 'MMO Players' it seems like you are refering to WoW players. Even that game in the begining was termed an MMORPG. The RPG being an abreviation of 'Role Playing Game'. Now RPGs the good non computer ones are all about story, but let's focus on video games. Back in the 80's RPGs were mostly text, with little or no graphics. They were all about story, interactive storys that players could get involved in. As the years, or decades even went on we got more graphics, more action game elements. Some games over the years have blurred the lines 'Deux Ex' was part shooter part RPG. I could write multiple essays so I'll stick to my point. I don't think we have ever had a true MMORPG. That is why most online games are now called MMO's rather than MMORPGs, other than it being a mouthfull to say. So yes I think story should be part of MMOs. Currrent generation MMO players who consider WoW the be all and end all of MMOs probably don't want more story than WoW. What they want is exactly WoW with a new skin and some new dungeons. For them maybe story isn't what they want. There are some of us though that have been waiting a long time for an MMO with story.

Please don't. Please leave it as it is.

This is not about content but attitude. I've been waiting for this game a long time now. Longer than some not as lng as others. I'm really enjoying playing my saga and getting into the story. That said.... My biggest problem so far and the one that really annoys me is players from that other MMO going on about end game content. The attitude of let's level really fast to max level so we can get the fat loot and repeatedly do the 'end game content' missions, etc. Now I've played that other MMO and I understand that's what people have been doing there for years now. I also understand that in that MMO there is a lot of quite dull leveling with the majoritory of the game being at whatever is the end at that patch. I liked that game, but I did not like the elitist gear driven attitude that many players adopted. SWToR is a new MMO a whole world to explore. It's not like any of us have played through the stories many times now. It's not a case of all our friends are in a max level guild and we need to get to that level to have fun. So my point is, please treat this as a new MMO. Don't expect it to be like that other one. Relax, maybe go do Black Talon again, it's fun. Focus on 'content' that bit all the way upto max level. I'm saying this because theres a lot to be had from the actual game content not just end game content. Maybe this is because previously you've only played MMO's with shallow content upto end game? Maybe you just need to feel you're more elite? I don't know. What I'm asking is take your time with SWToR, enjoy the galaxy, and learn what SWToR is like before asking for it to be changed to a new skin for that other MMO. May the Force set you free.

And the rest. As one of the players I can say I disagree with everything you have said. Perhaps you should stop telling them what we want? It seems this is just your opinion you have no right to claim to be speaking for all the players.

What the title says. I noticed our characters don't show their darkside changes to the character on the character select screen. Oversight, bug, or intended?