Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[artilleryshell]

this read

 

"i don't like talking to people nor do i have, want, desire any need for any type of social aspect in a MMO

 

please supply me with my one button miracle so that i may idle and group with people whom i can ninja from, talk crap to and generally disrespect because i know i will never see them"

 

if these tools remain server specific, then the people who do this will quickly become ostracized.

[livespawn]

nice comparison. I got some apples and oranges here, do they look the same to you as well?

 

they're both fruit aren't they? taste different but wont kill you.

[ImperialSun]

My response to this is simply... bioware also dosent have server specific forums.

 

Server forums would foster much more community than lack of any dungeon finder will.

 

 

That said, i still support keeping dungeon finding tools server-specific.

 

/agree on this.

 

My old SWG days were the best gaming times of my life and a lot of that was due to the sense of server / community, server forums were a huge part of that.

 

The lack of server forums is probably one of my biggest gripes and I did find it odd that the BW response was kind of "we are considering it but its not an easy thing to implement" or something to that effect....***?

 

Driz

Edited January 1, 2012 by ImperialSun

[Radagastimus]

And kudos to Bioware for not giving into these trolls and WOW lovers. let them all vanish in another 2 weeks and be done with it.

 

You seem to assume that BW puts more weight on players that play these few flashpoints rather than those massive amounts of players that play the actual content in the whole galaxy of content.

 

This game does not seem to concentrate on instances at all but rather to open world content and story arcs that are the major part of original Star Wars movies also.

 

Not to mention that Lucas Arts and people that have been around on making these movies were a great part of the team making this game it seems it is and always will be story drive MMORPG.

 

Also there is year to wait before any major changes appear as they hone and balance the new game and fix bugs and all that.

 

Plus greater demand than LFG tools seems to be for simple appearance tab

[artilleryshell]

/agree on this.

 

My old SWG days were the best gaming times of my life and a lot of that was due to the sense of server / community, server forums were a huge part of that.

 

The lack of server forums is probably one of my biggest gripes and I did find it odd that the BW response was kind of "we are considering it but its not an easy thing to do" or something to that effect....***?

 

Driz

 

current line i've been getting was that it "fragments the game community" or something along those lines.

[Nemmar]

Agreed. Having an LFG tool will help me get to that experience faster and more efficiently. Think of it this way. We both want to get to a friend's house to play video games and have fun. I am advocating to drive there and you want to walk. We each have the same goal (to have a fun, social, group oriented game experience) but driving makes it happen much faster and easier.

 

Let's compare LFG tool with your system. I queue for a Taral V and wait 20 minutes and I quest/craft/pvp in the mean time. Once the LFG tool pops, I get into the dungeon with my new party and we proceed to share in the experience of the dungeon as we barely take down the bosses and have a great time doing it. We socialize within the dungeon and even share a few laughs as a guy goes to the bathroom. We complete the dungeon and share in the triumph, congradulating each other along the way. I leave the dungeon but see a party member on Hoth later and we become friends and que up for Maelstrom Prison together later that night and continue to have a great time playing a social game.

 

Let's use your system (this actually happened to me). I am questing on Balmorra and want to do Taral V. I type LFG Taral v into general chat every 5 minutes or so while I quest. I get a DPS who's interested (I'm a tank) so I keep going. After about 20 minutes of questing/waiting, I finish some stuff up and think I might have better luck at carrik station. I arrive and type the same thing and proceed to wait for 30 minutes for someone to group with me. The guy in my group already and I exchange pleasentries but kind of do our own thing until another DPS finally agrees and joins. We need a healer. After another 20 minutes a lvl 50 healer takes pity on us and decides to help out. We start the FP. 20 minutes in, he decides to drop group. We decide going out and typing LFG for another 30 minutes isn't worth it so we pull out a companion. We struggle through the FP until the last boss where we wipe 6 times before leaving the dungeon and waiitng another 40 minutes for a healer to finally agree to join us. The whole process took my entire afternoon of game time. I am now not motivated to do Maelstrom Prison

 

You tell me which of these experiences results in a more entertaining and social game experience.

 

Ok, for the comparison you draw, you could say that walking there with your buddy gives you time to talk/socialize before you jump into the gaming.

 

In your experience i give you mine. First, you were doing it wrong. You should look for groups in the fleet, thats the main hub and where people who want to get groups are, while beeing able to work on their crew skills etc.

In my experience i go to the fleet, i see the guy spamming for an instance im interested in, i join, there one more spot left... 2 minutes later we get the final member and move to the entrance. My experiences all took less than 15m. So, try the fleet and try at decent times.

 

and yes a flashpoint should be an event of proper significance and not something you spam 10 times a day.

[TheHauntingBard]

I think the problem is that most people think immediately of WoW's Dungeon Finder when someone suggests a "Dungeon Finder" for this game. WoW's Dungeon Finder pulls from across multiple realms, allowing people to behave poorly with fewer consequences because the people they screw over are not on their server. This is why people immediately said "It erodes community." I don't have to get to know a few good tanks and healers on my server, I just have to put up with the occasional poor one from another server.

 

Personally, I think a slightly more robust and obvious LFG system expanding on the ideas of the existing one in the game at this moment would solve a lot of these problems. However, there is a lot to be said for not auto-assembling the groups because it does force somewhat more social interaction. I'm personally a supporter of having to talk to people to assemble the group. That said, spamming General often undermines that practice as well, but I have no ideas on how to counter that, other than making the LFG system more accessible so that it's easier than spamming in General....

 

Think we can agree that they both have their positive and negative side.

Personally I would settle for a better made non x realm WOW like LFG system.

True spamming sometimes 'forces' some social interaction but in the end this will come more natural while people having fun in an instance.

 

I am also looking for a healer to do my 4 man heroic quest, even if he isn't talkative or nice I rather take that person than wait another 30 minutes.

In some way I don't think this is social at all.

[PipPoints]

If WOW has it I don't want it.

[livespawn]

the queue to be ported to a dungeons are about 7 years old, in early vanilla, X-server came a while b4 TBC witch is 6 years ago, LFD tool is 2 3 years old.

 

AND you cant compare pvp BGs to Dungeons, mostly ppl queue solo, there is no restricion on classes, 1 to 4 players can join in any gear (and in TOR, any lvl whit anyone else)

 

so that you said there, is just flat out wrong.

 

Thats not the point. What i'm addressing is the attitude that the general function of the LFG will all of a sudden destroy community by making people "lazy" by grouping them and teleporting them. Thats what the current pvp system does. in it's state it doesn't MAKE players construct groups, it does it for us. However, a system like that is accepted here by Anti-LFG people, despite the logic, the "lazyness" logic, being exactly the same.

[Filipebar]

World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, RIFT, and Aion.

 

Let me address the dungeon finders in the two games I have played of them at one time or another. I played the other two but not long enough to use the dungeon finder.

 

WoW: A tool which while it works exactly as you want it to, has done exactly what you jump up and down claiming wont happen. it destroyed the community by allowing people to just up and join any group instead of making friends and running it with them. Hell whatever happened to guild dungeon runs? Yeah thats what I thought.

 

LOTRO: Server only dungeon finder which means if your not on a populated server your screwed. Good system otherwise save for the fact that its implementation is broken. 75% of the time it will que a tank and 2 dps for 3 mans with no heals whatsoever. Effect on community is too soon to notice as it only came out a few weeks ago.

[livespawn]

WoW: A tool which while it works exactly as you want it to, has done exactly what you jump up and down claiming wont happen. it destroyed the community by allowing people to just up and join any group instead of making friends and running it with them. Hell whatever happened to guild dungeon runs? Yeah thats what I thought.

 

same server didn't destroy the community, X-server did.

[Elloa]

How many threads need to be started about this questions?

 

Seriously : no, this game doesn't need a dungeon Finder.

 

yes, there is a dungeon finder in WOW, and this highly helped to destroy completly the community to the point of making the game less engaging and appealing to play. It has been in my eyes, one of the biggest mistake WOW ever made. The community was maybe not sogood before, but after the Dungeon finder had been implemented it has certainly be completly ruined.

Yes, on other game like Rift, it has been implemented aswell, and if I've heard correctly the complains of the Rift community, the dungeon finder have not been a nice addition, community wise.

 

 

In SWTOR, I hope we will not have a Dungeon Finder, x-realm, and with automatic teleportation. And I vote against it, if I can.

The reason why I'm against the Dungeon Finder is that it transform deeply the mentality of the players, in a very bad way.

 

Selfish : they just think about their loot, their pleasure, their friends, their quest.

Lazy : why make an effort when you can just click on a button? Players are educated to click button and do what they want. They enter in a CBA attitude that I hate, that will influence their behaviour in the game in general, not only restricted to dungeon finding.

Impatient : players are used to recieve everything in their mouth as fast as possible. They can not wait anymore a group to get prepared, someone to explain tactics. This obviously influence their behaviour in other area of the game such as behaviour in guild or in raid

Anti-social : players don't need to speak to each other to make their dungeon and succeed their quest.

Anti-community : players will not get used to the players of their own server as they will play as much with players from other servers. This doesn't help to create a feeling of community inside a same server.

Rude : players don't care about their reputation. They can behave as bad as they want there is no more consequences for their wrong behaviours.

 

.

[Wjjq-]

same server didn't destroy the community, X-server did.

 

This. I don't see any cons to same server dungeon finder.

[livespawn]

 

In SWTOR, I hope we will not have a Dungeon Finder, x-realm, and with automatic teleportation. And I vote against it, if I can.

The reason why I'm against the Dungeon Finder is that it transform deeply the mentality of the players, in a very bad way.

 

Selfish : they just think about their loot, their pleasure, their friends, their quest.

Lazy : why make an effort when you can just click on a button? Players are educated to click button and do what they want. They enter in a CBA attitude that I hate, that will influence their behaviour in the game in general, not only restricted to dungeon finding.

Impatient : players are used to recieve everything in their mouth as fast as possible. They can not wait anymore a group to get prepared, someone to explain tactics. This obviously influence their behaviour in other area of the game such as behaviour in guild or in raid

Anti-social : players don't need to speak to each other to make their dungeon and succeed their quest.

Anti-community : players will not get used to the players of their own server as they will play as much with players from other servers. This doesn't help to create a feeling of community inside a same server.

Rude : players don't care about their reputation. They can behave as bad as they want there is no more consequences for their wrong behaviours.

 

.

 

Then can you explain to me how auto queue pvp can work and not do this? and maybe why you may or may not support it?

[livespawn]

This. I don't see any cons to same server dungeon finder.

 

Because there aren't really any. If there are any they can be directly correlated to the auto-queue pvp and it's cons, the one auto queue that everybody is ok with.

[LeonBraun]

What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game.

 

Pros:

 

1. Can continue questing while waiting for group to form.

2. Prevents trolls from sitting there ruining General Chat while they are bored trying to fill a group.

3. Proves that BioWare can do something like this. Buys street creds.

 

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role.

 

It does ruin community. 'Nuff said.

 

No please.

[LeonBraun]

You can also try every modern MMO made since 2004. They all have dungeon finders.

 

And all those communities are worse off for thier dungeon finders.

 

Meet people, make friends.

[Semihages]

Honestly I don't know anymore..

 

I just been through a hell trying to find a group... in the middle the DPS had to break up with his g/f so he went afk a lot.. and by the time we get to 2nd boss, the tank just go completely afk without saying anything..

 

And I feel like I literally just wasted an entire afternoon and I really should have just solo levelling instead.

 

Maybe things will get better once most people are in end game looking for group.. but we still need something.. maybe dual skill tree?

[Meiyana]

You must have been on a terrible server, as the difference between my WoW server before x-realm BG queues and the LFD system vs what it was like after was NIGHT AND DAY.

 

An LFD system creates a sense of anonymity. You can act like an *** and get away with it because you can just hit the queue button again.

 

When you have no choice but socialization, you'll find people are a lot nicer because if they act like an ***, they get blacklisted by entire guild alliances and suddenly can't do any content.

 

Pre-TBC, my server drove people off our server for acting like asses.

 

In an LFD system, that becomes much less possible.

 

And yes, acting like an *** should have consequences that include eventually being forced to reroll on a different server.

 

LFD came with WOTLK not TBC. If your server community became toxic during BC then it was for a different reason than LFD. Perhaps the drop in raid size from 40-25 causing people to have to be more selective with who they took on raids helped foster the elitist attitude. With 40 man raids, you could carry 8-10 people and be fine, with 25, everyone had to be on their game. I don't know but if that's the time frame you are using for the "demise" of WoW then you're missing something.

 

I don't care about an LFG system one way or the other I just think you (not you personally) cling to this thought that it killed WoW's community when in fact it the community was never all that great to begin with. Sure, I had my guilds, I made lots of friends but in the end, the general community kinda always sucked.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Meiyana

[coffeerox]

There is literally NO EVIDENCE that LFD or LFR ruins communities. If anything, both of these systems improved the community. The LFR system in WoW is actually improving the community and the devs are taking ALL the credit even though games like DC Universe Online had it before WoW.

[LeonBraun]

There is literally NO EVIDENCE that LFD or LFR ruins communities. If anything, both of these systems improved the community. The LFR system in WoW is actually improving the community and the devs are taking ALL the credit even though games like DC Universe Online had it before WoW.

 

LFD completely changed WoW. One doesn't need to work in analitics to realize this.

Edited January 1, 2012 by LeonBraun

[Occams_Razor]

Think we can agree that they both have their positive and negative side.

Personally I would settle for a better made non x realm WOW like LFG system.

True spamming sometimes 'forces' some social interaction but in the end this will come more natural while people having fun in an instance.

 

I am also looking for a healer to do my 4 man heroic quest, even if he isn't talkative or nice I rather take that person than wait another 30 minutes.

In some way I don't think this is social at all.

 

I completely agree. I think the difficulty is in sorting out what has a direct impact on community and how to minimize negative impact while maximizing the ease of grouping.

 

There is literally NO EVIDENCE that LFD or LFR ruins communities. If anything, both of these systems improved the community. The LFR system in WoW is actually improving the community and the devs are taking ALL the credit even though games like DC Universe Online had it before WoW.

 

I'll offer some anecdotal evidence. True, it's not empirical, but I think it matches most of the experiences that my acquaintances had as well: Before Dungeon Finder was added to WoW, I added many people to my friends list. I had between 30-50 players that I tried to keep track of because I knew they were good folks that I could rely upon in a run.

 

Once Dungeon Finder was added, I did not add a single player to my friends list. It wasn't "necessary" and often wasn't possible. Most of the great players I was meeting were from other servers.

 

Now, the LFR system seems to be a bit different, but I have no experience with that and can't really speak to it.

[Norbix]

It does ruin community. 'Nuff said.

 

No please.

 

This game doesn't really have a community. Nobody tries looking for groups because it's so hard to find one. It'd be sort of okay if entrances to flashpoints were in the planets where people are leveling but they aren't. The only people you'll find looking for flashpoint groups is for Black Talon, because it's right there with them along the way. Doing anything else is actually a pain in the butt.

[joeragu]

this read

 

"i don't like talking to people nor do i have, want, desire any need for any type of social aspect in a MMO

 

please supply me with my one button miracle so that i may idle and group with people whom i can ninja from, talk crap to and generally disrespect because i know i will never see them"

 

Drama much?

[joeragu]

LFD completely changed WoW. One doesn't need to work in analitics to realize this.

 

I'd put forth that your wrong. Changing from 40 man to 25 man raids and making epic gear easier to obtain changed the game far, far more than LFD did.