Never seen a valid argument against the LFD

[Rheinland]

1st If it is implemented it makes people lazy resulting in less people doing what they are doing now(communication)

 

2nd yes ninjas were always but once they ninjaed once or maybe twice half of the actual realm knew about the douchebag and he never got a good guild or a good raid pug....

 

With LFG noone cares since the chances of seeing that person in a crossrealm LFG are probably less than 1:100000

 

So if its not implemented its going to result in people getting out of the house and stop being lazy? People are going to take up more productive hobbies?

[Aleeha]

You rolled on two extrememly old and high population servers. They are the exception to the rule.

 

 

 

Those are absurd generalizations and just plain dumb. A tool allowing you to look for a group on your server (better than what exists now) will solve the LFD problem without harming server community.

 

LFD was initially a server tool and was later expanded into cross server. As for the argument of harming the server community? How?!? For the 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th time how exactly does it HARM the damn community?

 

LFD is an awesome tool for people who are time constrained, in lower populated guilds (this is probably a shock to you but sometimes friends form guilds for just themselves, so if there are only 10 of you and only 1 online), lower populated servers, the time of day that people play (not everyone plays in prime time), well it's a good tool for anyone who wants to use it.

 

LFD is a bad tool for people who like to complain and whine. LFD isn't a good tool for people who are elitist as you'll find a wide variety of player skills.

 

LFD is NOT FREAKING EVER BEEN REQUIRED TO COMPLETE CONTENT AND YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO USE IT. YOU CAN STILL COMPLETE THE ENTIRE GAME WITHOUT EVER USING A TOOL LIKE LFD.

[Alcarinn]

So if its not implemented its going to result in people getting out of the house and stop being lazy? People are going to take up more productive hobbies?

 

No it will result people actually kiddos to finally try and speak english not their weird idea of english since otherwise mature smart players will not invite them in groups....

 

with LFD you have NO or barely any power over your group now you have full power...

 

Decide does the flashpoint outweights you ''wanting to do other quests'' or not if it does then maybe you dont ''deserve'' to play flashpoint...

 

A smart person who is well was a CEO of a company once told me ''the value of anything is the amount of time you are willing to exchange for it'' Guess you dont value something enough to exchange this required time for it...

[ImperialSun]

1. For every wow player who says LFD is a blessin there is another wow player who says the opposite.

 

2. BW have already stated LFD is not being implemented because they want to create an atmosphere of community and player dependency. BW obviously thinks LFD has an adverse effect on community.

 

Doesnt matter what the armchair devs and wow kiddies demand as BW have set their stall out already on this issue.

 

Its just the wow whiners think their sub entitles them to demand BW reverse their design choice...hopefully BW will stick to their guns otherwise the game WILL end up in the same state as wow in a couple of years and nobody wants that...

 

Driz

[Rheinland]

No it will result people actually kiddos to finally try and speak english not their weird idea of english since otherwise mature smart players will not invite them in groups....

 

with LFD you have NO or barely any power over your group now you have full power...

 

Decide does the flashpoint outweights you ''wanting to do other quests'' or not if it does then maybe you dont ''deserve'' to play flashpoint...

 

A smart person who is well was a CEO of a company once told me ''the value of anything is the amount of time you are willing to exchange for it'' Guess you dont value something enough to exchange this required time for it...

 

Videogame= lazy?

value= time spent

 

time spent on videogame= value from being lazy?

[Umbral]

You probably never saw the sort of community it made since you never actually played wow before lfd. Or when leveling guilds existed for something other than to sit in for buffs. The server communities tend to be a lot tighter on PvP servers where world PvP is prominent.

I played WoW before the lfd, and after. In fact I played WoW on day 1 (a little before day 1 actually). I never saw this "tight community" on any server I was on, whether it was a PvP server or not. As the OP said, the game at release was rampant with ninja looters, griefers, etc etc.

 

Just what is this "leveling guild" you speak of? There's no such thing. Not in that game, not in this game, not in any game. That's because very very few guilds are filled with players that have endless alts all at varying levels. Which would be needed for a guild to be a "leveling guild".

 

What there was at first was guilds where everyone started around the same time and some leveled together. That only lasted for a couple of months though. Then it was join a guild and occasionally someone in that guild was around your level as you leveled, but most often you were spamming for a group.

 

This "no LFD tool lets you get to know others on the planet you're on" stuff is PURE horsepucky. I'm almost level 30 now, and have added people that I've finally gotten groups with to my friends list after every 2+, 4+, and Flashpoint. I've only ever seen one of those players at or around my level again, and when I waved, the player just ran on by without even noticing.

 

Getting to the appropriate level to do a Flashpoint should have one tingling with excitement. As it is now, the only tingling you get is in your finger tips from typing "LFG for xxxxx", and in your backside from sitting in Fleet while you wait.

 

All not having a LFD tool is doing for the community is having players fill the general chat with the bi-products of being bored and frustrated waiting to get in a group. The chat is already equal to the worst you would have seen on any WoW server just after release, and believe me, it was bad.

 

"Barrens Chat" didn't become the nefarious legend for being filled with dubious characters it is for nothing.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Umbral

[Alcarinn]

Videogame= lazy?

value= time spent

 

time spent on videogame= value from being lazy?

 

I suggest you go back to school for reading comprehension.

 

If you dont want to stay and find a group you wont have a flashpoint run and this is a good way... it will make you decide ''Do i want it or not'' if its not it obviously isnt worth as much for you as it should be.

 

Good luck

[Rheinland]

I suggest you go back to school for reading comprehension.

 

If you dont want to stay and find a group you wont have a flashpoint run and this is a good way... it will make you decide ''Do i want it or not'' if its not it obviously isnt worth as much for you as it should be.

 

Good luck

 

You implied someone is lazy in a videogame for wanting a feature. I'm just pointing out that videogames in general arent a productive hobbie. Value coming from time spent on something sounds great and all but once again we're discussing a videogame. A videogame is supposed to be entertainment. If you want to spend extra time not doing something productive like running all the way back to the fleet then so be it. I'll take advantage of insta porting by using quick travel or if its off cooldown my Emergency Fleet Pass. Yup i'm lazy.

[Alcarinn]

You implied someone is lazy in a videogame for wanting a feature. I'm just pointing out that videogames in general arent a productive hobbie. Value coming from time spent on something sounds great and all but once again we're discussing a videogame. A videogame is supposed to be entertainment. If you want to spend extra time not doing something productive like running all the way back to the fleet then so be it. I'll take advantage of insta porting by using quick travel or if its off cooldown my Emergency Fleet Pass. Yup i'm lazy.

 

So why not ask for a full lvl 50 with every gear available... that would be a good feature huh?

 

For different people entertainment means different... even inside the same thing/game

 

BW stated LFD is bad for server community and if they said so i think this crying needs to stop and deal with it and learn to communicate and make friends lists. Once you hit 50 you will have tons on friends list to play anyway

[Hexlexia]

Those who are saying WoW never had a sense of community are only deluding themselves. I played on Alleria during Vanilla, and left the server just before BC when the offered free transfers off to Baelgun. Alleria was a HUGE server alliance side, after all, everyone wanted to be where <Risen> was.

 

We had a great community Horde side. You knew who the ninjas/chinese gold farmers were, you knew who could tank and who could heal, and you knew who had the key to UBRS (and sometimes you had to pay that person to come open the door ><). You friended people who were good, and if you were good, you had no issues whatsoever in getting a group. Hell, the whole server even banded together during the opening of AQ so that Failure would not get the Scepter to open the gates. Everyone (both alliance and horde) helped Ts and <Blighted> get the job done.

 

LFD was the final nail in the server community coffin. Cross realm BG's, paid name changes, and paid server transfers all had a hand in the destruction of what was a good server community.

[Kaphik]

I've never seen a valid argument for a LFD, aside from "I want my group to be made for me because it takes too much effort".

[Kaphik]

Those who are saying WoW never had a sense of community are only deluding themselves. I played on Alleria during Vanilla, and left the server just before BC when the offered free transfers off to Baelgun. Alleria was a HUGE server alliance side, after all, everyone wanted to be where <Risen> was.

 

We had a great community Horde side. You knew who the ninjas/chinese gold farmers were, you knew who could tank and who could heal, and you knew who had the key to UBRS (and sometimes you had to pay that person to come open the door ><). You friended people who were good, and if you were good, you had no issues whatsoever in getting a group. Hell, the whole server even banded together during the opening of AQ so that Failure would not get the Scepter to open the gates. Everyone (both alliance and horde) helped Ts and <Blighted> get the job done.

 

LFD was the final nail in the server community coffin. Cross realm BG's, paid name changes, and paid server transfers all had a hand in the destruction of what was a good server community.

 

So true! My original server, Throium Brotherhood had an incredible community, and a lot of cross-faction player friendships were made because of pvp! Once cross-server battlegrounds came in, the downhill slide began.

[RamataKahn]

There aren't any valid arguments against it.

 

Wanting to preserve that type of communities from EQ and UO don't count.

[Rheinland]

So why not ask for a full lvl 50 with every gear available... that would be a good feature huh?

 

For different people entertainment means different... even inside the same thing/game

 

BW stated LFD is bad for server community and if they said so i think this crying needs to stop and deal with it and learn to communicate and make friends lists. Once you hit 50 you will have tons on friends list to play anyway

 

Nope that would be a bad feature. The fact that they all ready have instant porting in the game makes arguing against having that with a feature mute. I dont want cross server LFG which is exactly what Georg Zoeller was stating that cross server detracts from community.

[Englefield]

OP, was there reallly a need to start another thread on the same subject so soon after your first?

[Darth_Sinistor]

LFD will come and quickly if Bioware want this game to last beyond 6 months.

 

The vast majority of MMO players are now used to the convenience of a LFD tool.

 

I might be proved wrong (and quite frankly I hope that I am), but I suspect that after the 30 days free play period is over and player numbers begin to drop off significantly a LFD tool will magically appear out of thin air.

 

Inconvenient game is inconvenient.....and then F2P.

[Criosdh]

There aren't any valid arguments against it.

 

Wanting to preserve that type of communities from EQ and UO don't count.

 

Yeah it does because those games are over 10 years old and are still up and running as opposed to the "convience" MMOs which have been dropping like flies in the past 5 years. (or going F2P just to keep the servers open).

[RamataKahn]

Yeah it does because those games are over 10 years old and are still up and running as opposed to the "convience" MMOs which have been dropping like flies in the past 5 years. (or going F2P just to keep the servers open).

 

No it doesn't, in case you hadn't notice casual players aren't as interested in those type of communities, and they make up the majority of the player base.

[Umbral]

Those who are saying WoW never had a sense of community are only deluding themselves. I played on Alleria during Vanilla, and left the server just before BC when the offered free transfers off to Baelgun. Alleria was a HUGE server alliance side, after all, everyone wanted to be where <Risen> was.

 

I had to chuckle, because I had characters on Alleria, and the community was pretty much exactly the opposite of how you described it. A community which was essentially the same as every other WoW server I had characters on, simply gaud awful. General chat just teeming with players arguing with each other and puffed up know-it-alls telling everyone else how great they were and how they should play the game.

 

All the WoW LFD tool did was eliminate the captive audience these people had. You log in today on any server and you still see people chatting and socializing. People that want to do that will do that regardless of whether there's a LFD tool or not. The only difference is they do it when they choose to do it, which is PRECISELY AS IT SHOULD BE.

 

I'm more and more starting to understand what is at the core of why this vocal minority doesn't want a LFD tool. It's that they can't stand the thought of players not having to stand around and read the garbage these people want to spew in general as they sift through it looking for a group. They won't have a captive audience. BW is just being led down the garden path by this crowd.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Umbral

[JimG]

I have seen people posting for and against the LFD but I have never really seen any rational argument against it.

 

 

So you felt that we needed another duplicate thread repeating what has been said in other threads rather than posting to one of the several existing threads about a LFG tool?

 

Never played WoW but the only negative I see to it is that it removes player accountability. Someone can be the biggest jerk on the server and they'll still be able to get groups. Let's face it, people who aren't willing to spend the effort to form groups themselves aren't going to sit in a que and then quit because that guy ends up in the group and then have to go back in the que.

 

Don't really see the big draw for them though because they don't create more players looking for a group....people either are or they aren't. An LFG tool just relieves players of having to spend any effort to form the group. You'll get 4 DPS players thrown into a group together and they'll quit because they don't have a tank and a healer. You'll get 4 players in a group that have no idea what they are doing on a particular heroic or flashpoint and they'll wipe a few times and quit on each other. You'll get all sorts of people who join a LFG from a different planet and then the group disbands because they had to wait an extended period of time for the person to get there. You'll get people who go in the que and then go afk and so the group forms and they can't start because someone is afk for an extended period and didn't have the courtesy to exit the LFG que. Have no idea how it worked out in WoW but the LFG tool they put into CoH is pretty much useless except for the sub-level 10 trial....otherwise it was quicker and better to form your own groups there.

[Nemmar]

I dont think this thread's question warrants a response.

 

Just because you choose to ignore the reasons why the cross-server destroyed the sense of community in WoW, you're just not even trying. I see in your OP post that you don't want to believe it and dismiss it saying it was the exact same before it.

 

So i've got to say, what evidance do you have that it was the same before? Because it certainly doesnt make sense, because before there were consequences for your actions, after there wasnt.

 

Its pretty much the same as playing with your friends and beeing a douche, gets your friends to not group with you again. Now, when this group has no bearing in your social activities, you can be the douchbag you want and see no consequences for it.

 

Its pretty much the same thing anonimacy does to people on the internet. Do you need an argument for that aswell? Or would you rather sharing your real name and adress as you post here?

Edited January 2, 2012 by Nemmar

[DKDArtagnan]

LFD doesn't just affect the community, but the entire flow of the game.

 

Instead of meeting up with people and instead of travelling to your destination - or at least the fleet - you instantly teleport to your dungeon.

 

It's a convenience - and that means human nature will want to use it. It's not used because it's better for you or the game - but because it's easier.

 

That's human nature.

 

The same is true for Warzones. People won't commit to World PvP - because Warzones are more convenient. It's not necessarily more fun - it's just incredibly convenient and the reward is there. Rewards do something to the human mind - and it can make us do things we don't really want to do - because we think the reward is worth it.

 

The same is true when you're out doing your quest number 1000. Do you kill the 40 mobs in the bonus quest for fun? No, you do it for the reward - even though the reward is often rather small.

 

Smart design has to go further than what seems immediately apparent. It's why you shouldn't give players mounts from level 1 - and it's why you shouldn't let players teleport to any bind point at will.

 

I'm afraid Bio/EA will eventually cave to the demands of the mainstream audience - because they'll insist on features like this. But we'll see...

[Reevax]

I dont think this thread's question warrants a response.

 

Just because you choose to ignore the reasons why the cross-server destroyed the sense of community in WoW, you're just not even trying. I see in your OP post that you don't want to believe it and dismiss it saying it was the exact same before it.

 

So i've got to say, what evidance do you have that it was the same before? Because it certainly doesnt make sense, because before there were consequences for your actions, after there wasnt.

 

Its pretty much the same as playing with your friends and beeing a douch, get your friends to not group with you again. Now, when this group has no bearing in your social activities, you can be the douchbag you want and see no consequences for it.

 

Its pretty much the same thing anonimacy does to people on the internet. Do you need an argument for that aswell? Or would you rather sharing your real name and adress as you post here?

 

but it didn't destroy the WoW community, that's pure rubbish. The WoW community was hot horse poop long before the LFD...

[AlkalineKitten]

I think this Blog post outlines the darkside of LFD systems

 

http://www.machiavelliscat.com/lioreblog/2011/12/28/the-cast-against-lf/

 

I don't want Cross Server LFD, just a Same Server one.

[FellintoOblivion]

Having a LFD tool isn't going to stop people who actually want some ethereal sense of "community" from fostering it.

 

What it IS going to do is allow the people who have no desire to interact with those people to avoid them.

 

So what we have is one group of people (the anti-lfd people) who want to force a second group of people (the pro-lfd people) to socialize more then they would like.

 

To put it another way: A lfd tool isn't going to stop those who want to form a community from doing so. It's simply going to illustrate the fact that the majority of people don't want to socialize. Is this kind of against the spirit of an MMO? Maybe but frankly who gives a ****? People are paying their money, let them play how they want. If a LFD tool "destroyed" your community it wasn't much of one to begin with was it?

Edited January 2, 2012 by FellintoOblivion