1. Freeform space game with PvP/trading/piracy/missions/etc. 2. Ilum redesigned/World PvP with purpose and unique rewards - with both solo and group viable stuff. 3. Atmosphere/Immersion on planets - like weather/day-night/ambient sounds

Well, we can easily agree that the SSP is among the theoretically possible features with most potential. However, it's also an incredibly easy and cheap way to string people along and keep them subscribed - in the hopes that their support will help generate something special for the future. Given what they said about Ilum "world PvP" near launch - I think it's safe to say that scepticism is the way to go with Bioware/EA and SWtOR. Personally, I fear it's simply PR ******** - or we'd have heard more details by now.

Well, they've improved performance quite a bit for my part. I used to get crappy performance in WZs - and now they're really 100% smooth. Except for some strange and very rare stuttering, which is NOT related to my rig. Anway, I don't think between 20v20 and 40v40 is unrealistic with some extra tuning. It would certainly motivate me a LOT more than grinding WZs endlessly for no reason except gear.

It depends, but I will most likely give up the game entirely. A pity, too, because I was just getting into it again. But F2P isn't what I like to hear - and I don't think "flexibility and choice" means to me what it means to EA. I don't want a game that I can check out for free and have a few laughs in - so I can spend a few dollars every few weeks. I want a meaningful and LONGTERM journey - where I don't have to jump between dozens of soulless MMOs that are all trying to pretend to be F2P, because I get bored with this one.

That's my primary concern. I mean, with F2P - they'll likely just keep adding content that's familiar and that they don't really have to change anything at the core for. As in, new operations, warzones, flashpoints and so on. Just adding endlessly to the treadmill. Meaning, we might have to give up hope for a truly expanded Space Combat section with freeform gameplay. Also, we might have to give up hope of a working Ilum with perpetual and meaningful PvP.

Hehe, good one Yes, the whining is massive - and the game doesn't really deserve it. It didn't live up to expectations - but really, what game could with that level of hype? They can still make it much better - and what we need is constructive criticism and not endless whining.

You're talking about EVE as if SWtOR PvP can't be anything like it. However, aren't you forgetting something? EVE is a space game. What part of SWtOR could very easily be very much like EVE? Think about it.

I agree it's not helping, but there's no stopping it. Once something like this starts - it will NOT stop. The only thing that will stop it, is something significant from Bioware/EA related to SWtOR - that can start a positive avalanche. The silence is pretty stupid.

Because it's both strategic and tactical. Because it looks pretty good. Because the outcome can change throughout. Because it feels like something that would happen in an actual war. Because it's pretty fast. Because it makes a lot more sense than killing people during a ballgame.

True story... Pretty annoying - but these things happen.

In beta - the hype and your imagination made up the largest part of the game. After launch, it became apparent that it's just a game made by real people - and it wasn't actually going to make you into Luke Skywalker. OK, the game had lots of flaws - and it still has a lot to aspire to, but it's a pretty damn solid MMO with a fantastic levelling process by way of interesting storylines.

In 6 years, I'll be your age. Here's hoping I learn to articulate my points at the same high level

Goes with the gaming industry - unfortunately. All MMOs have that - and I can mention specific examples for pretty much all established ones, including WoW, Rift, EQ2, Vanguard - and so on. Developers like to promise because they're not quite sure how much work something takes, or how big a success something will be. It happens. But they're all evil and did this just to get you, right?

Spending a lot of time having some fun on something is hard to equate with playing the best of the bad. If it's bad, you're not having fun. It's the best of what's out there - and it's good enough to play. Bad? Hardly. Perfect? Certainly not.

You can post all you like, but you have to understand that it appears a bit sad that you have nothing better to do. I mean, by all means, post constructive criticism about the game you expected to play for 6 months - though no one forced you to subscribe for that long. I'm not sure why you'd feel entitled because of it. Let's say it was possible to subscribe for 2 years - and the game failed to entertain you for that long, would you still blame the developers - or would you be willing to entertain the possibility that you need to be thoughtful how you invest? As for SWtOR - it's very far from perfect - and in being that, it's exactly the same as all the other established MMOs out there. All the popular ones have significant flaws on the same level. We've had 3 content patches that have all made good and significant changes. You might not agree, but I honestly think so. But, to spend your time in forums making simplistic statements like "TORtanic is sinking" won't help you get your point across. Try with some intelligent and constructive criticism and go have some fun outside the forums. Well, that would be my suggestion.

Welcome back I recently subscribed too - and I've found performance much better in WZs. In fact, they're fully smooth now and I'm not experiencing the lag spikes everyone is talking about. That said, it probably wasn't your rig - because I had a very high-end rig at launch and WZs still performed very poorly.

Is that really all it takes to start a believable rumor? I play and greatly enjoy the game. For all its flaws, it's still a wonderful experience levelling and PvP'ing in WZs. Perfect? No. But nothing will compete with WoW for endgame grinding. They could have launched with 1.3 - and it wouldn't have made a dent in that game. Look at ALL the other established MMOs - including AoC, Rift, LotRO, EQ2, and so on. Not a SINGLE one of them has more subscribers than SWtOR. People stick with WoW because that's where they invested all their time - and people like to stay with their friends. It's also WAY WAY ahead in the endgame content curve. The thing for SWtOR to do is to set itself apart from WoW in the endgame segment, and that's accomplished by being smart and unique. Implement a freeform space segment with trading/piracy/PvP and fix up Ilum to make it a perpetually interesting PvP zone. Then you have an endgame that WoW can't compete with.

People like to blame the engine - but AFAIK, it was just a platform to build upon. Personally, I think it has less to do with what engine they chose - and more to do with how they implemented animations. They wanted "heroic" combat visually - and in my opinion, they succeeded. You can say what you want about SWtOR - but the MOVES/ANIMATIONS look pretty damn cool and they animate very smoothly. But when dozens of people animate in close proximity - the engine bogs down and performance is very bad. They've actually improved this aspect of the game a lot - and with a decent CPU, the WZs are now fully playable and smooth. However, such elaborate and detailed animations are very, very bad for large scale PvP - which is why you'll find most games with large scale PvP (that work well) are games with very limited animations. Age of Conan suffered similarly - and they've yet to make Sieges fully playable.

AFAIK, the perks are cumulative (says so in the descriptions) - which means you actually gain 30% XP when maxed out. That SHOULD be noticable.

Thank you for the kind words The game is worth expanding and sustaining - I just hope Bioware has the means to do it right, at this point.

Personally, I don't like PvP in GW2 from what I've played in the betas. Structured PvP is like TOR - except with no progression to speak of and an extremely limited arsenal to choose from. Skill-based? Indeed - but no more so than TOR. Gear not a factor? True - and if you don't like to gear up for a few weeks in TOR - then I can understand. Then again, I like loot progression and intricate character mechanics. I just don't like grinding for it endlessly at the endgame - and TOR has improved a lot recently with recruit gear for entry level - and Battlemaster attainable in a few weeks of casual play. That's nothing. So, no, I'm not going to play GW2 for WvW - as I'm not a fan of zerg fests - and we all know that's what most of the battles will be. Yeah, there WILL be coordinated battles - but they will be as rare as good communication in online games is always rare. That's just the way of the world.

No thanks, I've been in all three betas and the game just doesn't appeal to me. I don't agree with the whole no-progression concept - and I think the personal story in GW2 is a complete joke. The dynamic events are nice - but they're not giving players any reason for feeding cows or killing bees. I'd much rather have a story-based reason for that. The PvP? Meh, I don't like the limited arsenal and I'm not into WvW with massive zergs. But this thread was about SWtOR - not other games.

Ok, here's the thing - I love the IDEA of Ilum. I LOVE the idea of a large open zone where PvP is strongly encouraged AND rewarded. I was there at launch, and I was there at 1.1. To call Ilum a disappointment would be an understatement of sizable proportions. But let's forget that. Let's look at the bright side. We've seen improvements to the engine - and we can actually have 8v8 PvP that doesn't break the game - and I have very smooth framerates in all WZs now. Ilum is there already - they have all the assets in place - and the majority of the work involved would be a design challenge, rather than a huge manpower workload. So, how would YOU improve Ilum? Give me your ideas. Personally, I think they need to limit the amount of players first and foremost - because the Hero engine, frankly, sucks big-time for truly large scale PvP. That's just something we have to swallow. So, make it anything from 20v20 to 40v40. Anything beyond that is just plain unrealistic - if you ask me. But I definitely think those numbers are doable. So, create separate instances of that size - so skewed population won't be an issue - and everyone can enjoy the PvP zone. Secondly, the whole concept of "PvP for its own sake is enough" is a myth. It's never enough. Oh, sure, it's fun for a while at first - and it can be a relief to kill people for 30-60 minutes every now and then - but it will never EVER be enough to sustain a healthy and interesting PvP zone. So, they NEED to encourage conflict - and they NEED to reward smart play. They NEED to give people SIGNIFICANT rewards for killing people - but they also need to take into account the variety of factors involved. Having 20 people killing a few shouldn't give a significant reward. That's not meaningful. But if one person kills another on the field - then it should definitely be rewarded in a way that makes the activity worthwhile. Factors involved should be damage done and damage taken. Healing other people should be rewarded - based on similar concept. As in, healing actual damage should be rewarded. TAKING damage should be rewarded. It might sound complex - and it IS complex - because a big load of factors need to be taken into account when designing the system - and you need to track how multiple players interact - and reward them accordingly. Then, and more importantly, we NEED a variety of meaningful objectives that everything from one player to an entire raid can achieve - and again, we need rewards that are enough to motivate players to stay in Ilum. One way is to have goals that "auto-reset" so we avoid the unfortunate situation from the past, where one side takes all the objectives and just ganks everyone who gets near them. Make it so that objectives auto-reset at given random intervals (like between 15-20 minutes randomly, so you can't predict where to be), and have enough of them so it's a problem covering them all and guarding them. Make TAKING an objective give a reward in itself -and don't rely on the stupid daily quests. Real war isn't about a daily quest - and immersion would be helped tremendously by having your actions directly reward you. Now, as for the rewards themselves - I think it should be a combination of commendations for COMPARABLE gear to real Warzones - but that in itself won't be enough. Because there will come a time when most players have the tier of gear they need - and they will simply stop coming to Ilum. So, they need a VERY significant PRESTIGE progression. This means "visual fluff" like new lightsabers or gear appearances. Give people cool stuff for participating - but don't eliminate the desire to do Warzones either. Just make it perpetually interesting to participate in the battle for Ilum - and you won't lack for players there. Also, it's VERY important to log activities for major players. Have a "status screen" interface for the zone - where the accomplishments of all players are listed. Nothing is more motivating for a player than having his name known throughout - and it promotes competitive play in a healthy way - just as long as the you're smart in terms of how you track real accomplishments. Now, what do you guys think? Do YOU have ideas for how to improve Ilum? I think the key is to keep it relatively low-key in terms of the workload involved. I don't see Bioware going all out on the zone at this point - but if enough people demonstrate a desire to remain in the game with a modest effort - they just might do something to save this zone. This zone that STILL has HUGE potential for the game.

First of all, a core combat overhaul will never happen at this stage. The engine alone is enough of a limitation and the work involved in tweaking animations or reducing GCD is simply not realistic for them to do at this point. Also, I happen to think the PvE combat is really quite entertaining. The problem isn't the combat - it's the AMOUNT of combat required during quests. They messed up big time when they designed their quests - especially given the fantastic story content. They really need to change the quest pacing - and reduce the killing required, and hopefully tweak them to make them more about interacting with the environment in interesting ways than killing eeeeendless samey mobs. I suppose the easiest way would be to reduce the amount of killing required for bonus XP, reduce the amount of mobs in the questing areas - and possibly increase the XP across the board for questing. Also, the concept of a Jedi slaughtering thousands of living beings on his way to 50 is just not a good match for the lore. For Sith - I can dig it, but not for Jedi.

What this game needs is not more of the same endgame content - it's more meaningful endgame OPTIONS. We REALLY don't need another game with a new gear tier out every few months. We need a game that stands APART from the other themeparks. SWtOR already does that with the excellent story-driven levelling experience. Now it needs to stand apart in the endgame experience. Most obviously, we need: 1. Freeform Space segment with trading/PvP. 2. Expanded PvP on Ilum and in the open world. 3. Much more customization for everything (especially space ships), with housing and social activities.