Criticism with Positive Ideas? Madness.

[Cranberries]

Why should I apologize for asking a very innocent thing I wanted to see it because we don't have an armory and I am genuinely interested I even made that clear so you would not go off the deep end...yet you do anyway.

 

You effectively called me a lair.

 

I may be an elitist. I may insult people who I consider bad. I may call people every name under the sun, but I do not lie. Ever.

[sevenex]

I feel really annoyed.

 

I make a post that lists basic, legitimate criticisms with a game I want to succeed, and I give solutions to them and I ... get overran by a herd of fanboys under the pipe of the Pied Piper of Hamelin...

 

Great community, even WoW's is better.

 

For the record, I agree with all of your points. It was a well thought out post and I can't find anything I disagree with.

 

What you have to realize is that people will always respond negatively to others telling them how great they are. In real life and on a video game board. It's like trying to have a conversation with one of those one upers that always have done everything you've done.. better and more often.

 

Your post would have been perfectly fine and all of your points valid, without trying to pleasure yourself right off the bat.

[Jett-Rinn]

You effectively called me a lair.

 

I may be an elitist. I may insult people who I consider bad. I may call people every name under the sun, but I do not lie. Ever.

 

You need to go back and have someone explain my post you; that wasn't what I said. I even congratulated you and you still took offense.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[ajjw]

Most of us posting here haven't just say "Omg, so elitist".

This is just from the first half of the thread. People need to realise that the OP is talking about endgame only. Anyone who thinks some of the points were not about endgame isn't thinking enough about the subject at hand. In the context of talking about endgame, the OP states their credentials.

 

The top lecturers at my university often include their credentials in the first sessions of the term to reinforce the opinions they present. This is how things work in the real world - You can't just start a thread talking about something and hope people take you seriously unless you provide proof that you're qualified.

 

While the part about being the only BH in the world with a specific item was borderline bragging, who cares? That's cool. The key part of that sentence was that he participated in the World 1st Nightmare kill to get the item in the first place.

 

TLDR: OP was right to state the credentials he did. Stop being so butt hurt.

 

stopped reading after you tooted your horn about how your the first and only of this that and the other.

 

If you want people to actually care what you say. Dont try to put yourself above others with useless "i did it first" bs infront of it.

However let me be the first to say that I got to this point

 

and could care less what you had to say after that. Try removing it and maybe you wont be treated like a self centered pre-modonna brat.

Pretty much This^

I was going to agree with you but your self-centred attitude("ONLY RAIDING MATTERS WHO CARES ABOUT ANYONE UNDER 50 HAVING ISSUES") put me right off.

I, like other that said it, stopped reading (becuase I was laughing so hard) after the listing of "credentials". Too rich! (and none of what you listed means ANYTHING nor carries any weight at all. Furthermore, saying you did "world first" or "server first" anything in this game means NOTHING as there is no verification and your word against anyone else).

 

Keep writing super long, easily ignored posts though, so I can leap frog your "credentials" cause I will actually be playing the game. :D

No, you were bragging like a little child about how your ''credentials'' are better than everyone else and how your opinion is therefore more valid.

 

If you do that, people will ignore anything legitimate in your post. It works that way in real life too, trust me. If there is one thing I hate, it's undeserved arrogance.

I stopped reading when I got to the credentials. Unless you're paying more per month, I don't think one person's opinion of what is fun to them is more valuable than another.

I comprehend fine; the fact that I disagree with not only the opinion, but also the elitist way it was presented is another matter entirely

Second, you gloat and make yourself feel above the rest of us by proving how much of a low life you are.

Edited January 1, 2012 by ajjw

[Cranberries]

You need to go back and have someone explain my post you; that wasn't what I said. I even congratulated you and you still took offense.

 

Then I'm sorry.

 

I laughed at the social skills thing. It would make sense right, as my social score in SWTOR is 1, and I'm about 700 points from hitting social 2.

[Jett-Rinn]

Then I'm sorry.

 

I laughed at the social skills thing. It would make sense right, as my social score in SWTOR is 1, and I'm about 700 points from hitting social 2.

 

Look I really don't want an apology; just please stop acting so elitist and stop going overboard...you can make very good points without it.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Mishmashmoo]

Constructive and honest thread. AND yet the fanboys still rush to defend the game despite the coherent and rational nature of the post and its obvious truth.

 

5 star

[Cranberries]

Look I really don't want an apology; just please stop acting so elitist and stop going overboard...you can make very good points without it.

 

The points I raised require a modicum of elitism, you need to be part of the 'elite' to post about such issues so early on. You can't post about hardmodes if you haven't cleared them, and you can't post about introductory raiding if you haven't cleared them.

 

I would enjoy it very much if every raid instance was like WoWs Sunwell, but that is never going to happen so I am happy accepting what most developers develop, as long as it is a quality product of succifient quantity. For this tier, however, both quality and quantity are lacking.

[LordIske]

You effectively called me a lair.

 

I may be an elitist. I may insult people who I consider bad. I may call people every name under the sun, but I do not lie. Ever.

 

He never called you a liar. You may be good at raiding but your reading comp and people skills seem to be lacking as evident by some of your post in this thread. I think it is you who should apologize to him at this point. (EDIT: you did apologize for the record)

 

Its stuff like this that has derailed what would have otherwise been a decent thread. Your attitude overshadows any valid points you made and makes people not want to care about what you have to say. In this case the guy was even praising your accomplishments and you still talked down to him. You nee to mellow out a bit there.

Edited January 1, 2012 by LordIske

[Quineverre]

you probably think this song is about you

dont you, dont you

[Tokeee]

You can't talk about something you haven't experienced.

 

I've experienced a lot of PvP in SWTOR, and I've experienced the cutting edge of raiding in SWTOR. Most people have not. I'm labelling the problems, and methods of resolution. Do you think I have less credibility than some level 10 who says "raiding is hard"? :/

 

This game doesn't have raiding yet.

[Megyskermike]

"I do not care about small bugs that stop some level 23 Sith Marauder from jumping from 1 hill to another, that's irrelevant."

 

MMOs are about the end game content….

 

That's subjective, you're suggesting that the problems you're facing are "obviously" in more need of fixing. I understand you're an experienced player and endgame could certainly use some fixes, but don't act like an elitest *** hat. Bioware will make those decisions, not you or your guild - otherwise - good/informative post.

[Jett-Rinn]

The points I raised require a modicum of elitism, you need to be part of the 'elite' to post about such issues so early on.

 

No they really don't. I have seen many elite players from guilds like Paragon Something Wicked and Fierce and how they present issues and it isn't done the way you do it.

 

Having actually talked to most of these developers face to face I can tell you, that they are not going to take you seriously acting the way you do. I actually saw Daniel Erickson tell someone with your exact attitude; that this wasn't that type of game and they weren't going for the hyper competitive mean spirited attitude that was in WoW's end game.

 

Now you can make a snarky comment you can disbelieve me or you can leave your attitude at the door...but you may want to consider how you are representing your guild on these forums.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[brusthoden]

Yeah stopped reading after i did it first thing too "Get A Life" and girls don't play MMO's! If your doing all that stuff already and the game is only 2 weeks old you did it wrong! So start over and do it right this time. this game was made for the average gamer not the no life loser so stop complaining it wasnt made for you it was made for the rest of us still enjoying it.

[Cranberries]

Yeah stopped reading after i did it first thing too "Get A Life" and girls don't play MMO's! If your doing all that stuff already and the game is only 2 weeks old you did it wrong! So start over and do it right this time. this game was made for the average gamer not the no life loser so stop complaining it wasnt made for you it was made for the rest of us still enjoying it.

 

I have a life, thank you very much. I raid 2 days a week, the rest of the week I can do whatever I like with my time. Including doing university dissertation material in between telling people I have no life, I infact do have a life.

 

This is the attitude that kills games right here, "you did something fast so you have no life."

[Jett-Rinn]

"I do not care about small bugs that stop some level 23 Sith Marauder from jumping from 1 hill to another, that's irrelevant."

 

MMOs are about the end game content….

 

That's subjective, you're suggesting that the problems you're facing are "obviously" in more need of fixing. I understand you're an experienced player and endgame could certainly use some fixes, but don't act like an elitest *** hat. Bioware will make those decisions, not you or your guild - otherwise - good/informative post.

 

Well and that's the thing that Cranberries can't seem to comprehend...James Ohlan, Georg Zoller (who is a big time raider min/maxer) and Daniel Dickerson all have said that TOR starts at level one and it is not nor will it ever be a Raid or Die MMO, they also have said numerous times that all updates would concentrate on the meta game which is solo content, Flash-points, Operations and PVP. Cranberries mentioned Darth Hater well he may want to actually speak to the guys who run the site as they were the first ones to say this wasn't going to be a Raid Centric MMO.

 

And honestly trying to be the top banana in a MMO that focuses so little on end game raiding is kinda like a Rhodes scholar trying to be the top student at a technical college.

 

Edited January 1, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Quineverre]

On the internet i am blond, long legged, rich, 21 years old, very good looking, the most elitest gamer there ever was, highly educated and I can claim I won an oscar and you can never quess wich famous moviestar I am

[ajjw]

On the internet i am blond, long legged, rich, 21 years old, very good looking, the most elitest gamer there ever was, highly educated and I can claim I won an oscar and you can never quess wich famous moviestar I am

*facedesk*

[Cranberries]

*facedesk*

 

*Soothes*

 

It's okay, we're the intelligent vocal minority it seems. The game will probably die and burn but it's Star Wars so it's okay.

[AirshipGirl]

Good post OP, I really hope Bioware takes your words to heart.

[brusthoden]

PLS all the baddies go back to WOW! It's more suited for you. Leave SWTOR to the average gamer that enjoys the storyline it's not made to rush lvl. Oh you didnt realize that oops your bad.

 

This game will be awesome i haven't seen a kung fu panda or a pokemon idea in the mix yet! /Win

[livespawn]

of course any criticism will be discredited by fanboys, even constructive criticism.

[BobTheTeepo]

http://www.darthhater.com/forums/forum-home/general-discussion/endgame-pve/24252-official-thread-reporting-world-us-eu-operations < reports on kills, notice how we're the only guild to have commented on the Bonethrasher Nightmare kill.

 

Proof? I'd give you the video but we're keeping it secret until another guild manages to do Nightmare mode Bonethrasher.

 

http://i.imgur.com/PDsUU.jpg

 

Warning, this may shock you. Not everyone brags about their every achievement. To be quite honest, I doubt that you're the only ones to take out this mob across the many dozens of servers. Again, you have no evidence that you are the ONLY one, and no logic to suggest it either. Lack of evidence is not evidence, merely the lack of it.

 

Furthermore, you've still not showed how that in any way shows you have knowledge on a specific subject. Even if killing this bone crashed was in any way relevant to the topic at hand, getting that helmet from that boss is simply bragging, because you killed that boss, any knowledge gained would be from the killing of the boss, not from the looting of the helmet. Therefore it is definitive that your part about the helmet was boasting, also definitive that your mention of being the first to kill this boss is boasting (as you being the first in no way qualifies you as being more knowledgeable than someone who killed it second, third of five-hundredth).

 

You can't talk your way out of this. Admit you were boasting -- we all do it from time to time -- no one will hold it against you. It's your defense of your actions that bothers me personally. You could have just apologized for your admitted elitist comments, but instead you defend them and your boasting.

 

I had at least a little sympathy when all the fan boys crawled out and attacked you for your boasting. That was overreacting by far. But your generalizing and elitist statements since then have shown me that you deserved all the comments you got, except the ones saying "go back to WoW" or whatever, those were uncalled for.

[BobTheTeepo]

This is just from the first half of the thread. People need to realise that the OP is talking about endgame only. Anyone who thinks some of the points were not about endgame isn't thinking enough about the subject at hand. In the context of talking about endgame, the OP states their credentials.

 

The top lecturers at my university often include their credentials in the first sessions of the term to reinforce the opinions they present. This is how things work in the real world - You can't just start a thread talking about something and hope people take you seriously unless you provide proof that you're qualified.

 

While the part about being the only BH in the world with a specific item was borderline bragging, who cares? That's cool. The key part of that sentence was that he participated in the World 1st Nightmare kill to get the item in the first place.

 

TLDR: OP was right to state the credentials he did. Stop being so butt hurt.

 

I have no issue with him stating credible credentials. Looting the helmet has NOTHING to do with any of his topics. Killing the boss FIRST has NOTHING to do with any of his topics. If you were going to give a lecture on a philosophical subject, would you mention you made it into the the guinness book of world records? That has nothing to do with your topics, it may be impressive, but it does not in any way show the knowledge you have regarding philosophy. And as such, it qualifies as boasting, not credentials.

 

I meant most of the people later on in the thread. You'll notice I've been hard on the fanboys too, even saying I had some sympathy for the OP before he started replying. But people like me who are posting their concerns are not doing it because we're "butthurt". This person in no way harmed me, so the only clear reason I had to respond was to show how much of a jerk he was being.

 

Also, OP, get off the whole "I needed to be elitist" train, that's simply false. As I've stated previously, your elitist comments have no bearing on the subjects at hand. In fact, your elitist comments weren't even in your first post where you claim they needed to be. They were in the posts after that they certainly did not need to be in.

[Kourage]

You don't need a reward for killing another player.