Can SWTOR No Longer Even Afford a New Flashpoint? Just Grind Systems?

[Guyverarmor]

3 hours ago, Jett-Rinn said:

I thought it was pretty much understood that SWTOR is in maintenance mode, and we're not getting much past bug fixes?  I mean if you look at it from that viewpoint we should all be pleasantly surprised we've gotten what we've have.

 

 

I'd say semi-maintenance mode since we still get Cartel Market items and about...15min of story every six months roughly. Now, with 8.0 I fully intend them to finish the current storyline and leave it at that. Then full maintenance mode with just bug fixes and about the only new content will be Cartel Market items to base off of any new SW stuff going on at that time, along with cycling events.

But as far as story content? I am very happy to bet my account of 15 years that 8.0 will wrap up the storyline more or less and nothing new storywise. Welcome to Galactic Barbie Simulator.

[DarthCasus]

I literally stopped playing Flashpoints because they were shoved down our throats to deliver story to a degree where they just didn't feel fun or particularly well adjusted for the current direction of the game. Not one can be a side story that gives insight into the going-ons of the wider galaxy, everything is framed to be a continuation of a story we've grown fatigued with. Getting them as options on characters that are nowhere near the narrative of the actual FP always felt weird and the lack of shared enthusiasm within the community for them (definitely having nothing to do with the lackluster rewards) should have spoken volumes. Just look at the reception of some of the past 6:

Umbara - Shiny, poor framerates on the train, and largely forgettable besides the pugbreaker final boss fight that had issues with telemetry.

Traitor Among the Chiss - Lovely look, "For House Irokini!" became a meme, forces a slow pacing because of the armada of mobs at the start, Guardian Droid was apparently a problem. Overall soggy response to this one, even if I didn't have too many issues with it besides the mobs.

Nathema - A vicious assault on the concept of story telling and a big middle finger to the 8 class stories that came before. Leaving top the side the potentially unfair ending for a particular character centered in all of this, and the mass murder of a great cast of characters, the boss fights themselves were interesting, but a poorly timed step up in diffculty from what players had become accustomed to during the era in which this flashpoint dropped. There was no easing into it, the turd was just dropped onto our laps. Seriously, this flashpoint is a black mark on the game's story and I'm upset so many fully functioning adults let this slide.

SoV - I actually liked this one, the first 2 or 3 times I did it. Funny enough, I found Master Mode groups for this one before I found Vet ones multiple times because the difference in populations pursuing this as new content definitely came from 2 different styles of gameplay; with the more casual being grinded into dust at ONLY THE FIRST boss and the ones seeking challenge immediately upon its drop being surgical in their takedowns. I found this one enjoyable, but no one seems to like to do it anymore since its had time to settle.

Secret of the Enclave - I've only touched this once with a group and was convinced to never do so again unless I start chasing the achievements for it. Wasn't interesting enough and barely memorable imo, even as a solo character venture. Can't believe we get to be in the ruins of a culturally significant place to the community and its all squandered. Honestly not sure if it could have been done much better though, I'm just not feeling them making it a FLASHPOINT.

Ruin of Nul - Have yet to touch this at all, all my story progression stopped right after Manaan. I don't have the desire to drag any more characters out of my 66 character stable on my main server up to this point, my 2 mains will do. This story player tapped out long ago.

While I understand the good that continued support for the multiplayer portions of the game does in the long run and am on board with it, coming from a FP enthusiast, I feel like not enough has been enough to keep them relevant or worthwhile as anything but a 20-35 minute button mashathon for CQ or story progression. It could be class balance feeling stale or my general dismay with the game's overall direction in recent years, but flashpoints have lacked their distinct OOMPH for a while now.

[Stradlin]

They just released a Flashpoint like 2 months back?

Wanna guess when the last content patch for GSF was? Seven years back,. that's when. Seven..years.

Seven years of just watching how patch after another after another keeps ignoring GSF completely. How  literally every single aspect of the game gets  repeatedly updated, besides my favorite part of it.

 

[LD_Little_Dragon]

6 hours ago, Stradlin said:

They just released a Flashpoint like 2 months back?

Wanna guess when the last content patch for GSF was? Seven years back,. that's when. Seven..years.

Seven years of just watching how patch after another after another keeps ignoring GSF completely. How  literally every single aspect of the game gets  repeatedly updated, besides my favorite part of it.

 

11 months ago.  I just checked and the Voss update (with the flashpoint) came out June of last year.

Are you really sure you want a GSF update?  You could end up looking at the GSF equivalent of 7.0's gutting of our combat styles.

[Jett-Rinn]

17 hours ago, Guyverarmor said:

I'd say semi-maintenance mode since we still get Cartel Market items and about...15min of story every six months roughly. Now, with 8.0 I fully intend them to finish the current storyline and leave it at that. Then full maintenance mode with just bug fixes and about the only new content will be Cartel Market items to base off of any new SW stuff going on at that time, along with cycling events.

But as far as story content? I am very happy to bet my account of 15 years that 8.0 will wrap up the storyline more or less and nothing new storywise. Welcome to Galactic Barbie Simulator.

As long as enough people still pay for their sub...it really doesn't matter does it? And Fleet has been jammed packed most evenings and weekends...folks want their Star Wars game and the SWG emus currently are just too sketchy, so they are going to play SWTOR...for good or bad Broadsword holds all the cards, my friends are here and I still have fun as long as that is a reality....I'm going to keep playing. 

[Guyverarmor]

2 hours ago, Jett-Rinn said:

As long as enough people still pay for their sub...it really doesn't matter does it? And Fleet has been jammed packed most evenings and weekends...folks want their Star Wars game and the SWG emus currently are just too sketchy, so they are going to play SWTOR...for good or bad Broadsword holds all the cards, my friends are here and I still have fun as long as that is a reality....I'm going to keep playing. 

Good or for bad, I agree with you on that. But now that EA does not have exclusive license for the SW IP, I am really hoping something comes along that can scratch more of the MMO itch in Star Wars. The IP is just too perfect for an open world MMO. 

I give SWTOR credit as a single player rpg though, that part it pulls off in spades. 

[LJ_Gibbs]

23 hours ago, Jett-Rinn said:

I thought it was pretty much understood that SWTOR is in maintenance mode, and we're not getting much past bug fixes?  I mean if you look at it from that viewpoint we should all be pleasantly surprised we've gotten what we've have.

 

 

They have come out and said it is NOT in MM... but again... I don't believe them.

[Guyverarmor]

1 minute ago, LJ_Gibbs said:

They have come out and said it is NOT in MM... but again... I don't believe them.

For me, the dev team is the epitome of a line from "God of War: Ragnarok"

"If he says 'Snow is white' he's lying." This is just my opinion though. With how much they have dropped the ball on...well, pretty much everything in addition to be silent on multiple areas of the game and just not updating certain things (GSF seven year update drought says hi) I will never believe anything they say. I just can't.

When you say "10 year celebration will be big!" and the only thing big about it is the let down...that's all that needs to be said on their trust level.

[Gamer_Auto]

On 5/2/2024 at 11:32 PM, DeannaVoyager said:

Considering they aren't providing any new end game content that requires subscription, they should remove that requirement from old content too (uprisings and operations). I know a lot of people who would join a random raid every now and then, but it's quite expensive if you have to pay a full month's sub for two hours of playing.

Now those people aren't logging in at all, which means they won't be seeing what's in CM either.

Okay, what do you people even mean by "endgame content"? This is an MMO. There is no endgame until the servers are shut down. Do you mean high difficulty content like Nightmare Operations? If that's what you mean, then I'll agree with you, but I'd like to point out that the team is far smaller than it was when Ops were a normal thing, and the last one they released was received so poorly (thanks to bugs) that they're likely scared to put all their monthly resources into making another one. They'd likely have to dedicate all the time they dedicated to Interpreter's Retreat, Kessan's Landing, and the new Hutta area combined if they wanted to get a positive reaction from the Operations crowd.

 

On 5/3/2024 at 3:27 AM, GuigeekRhadamant said:

Simple answer :

"Content" like this makes us grind for weeks for the cheevos even if they're sh*t. Real content don't need such dedication so we play less. That's why we never get actual content in the game

That's called "Artificially increasing player retention". It's how live service games hold audience attention in order to continue getting funding. If Broadsword wanted to do a 1-to-1 recreation of Vanilla, it'd likely cost as much to make that alone as it did to make Jedi: Survivor; and that's not even accounting for hosting the servers and making any kind of content afterwards.

 

On 5/3/2024 at 2:25 PM, juliushorst said:

They scrapped is because - I assume - they found a few voices opposing the idea and decided to treat them as the voice of the community. Same thing with companions in galactic season. Whatever means less work is the voice of the community.

Don't get me wrong: I like Fen, Fae, and Amity enough as Companions, but I don't think they were worth centering an entire Limited Time Event over (I can't speak to Altuur as I only ever got the companion unlock and never got further in that tree before I went on a break from SWTOR).

 

On 5/3/2024 at 3:52 PM, Jett-Rinn said:

I thought it was pretty much understood that SWTOR is in maintenance mode, and we're not getting much past bug fixes?  I mean if you look at it from that viewpoint we should all be pleasantly surprised we've gotten what we've have.

I wouldn't call Broadsword's tenure "Maintenance Mode" just yet. It's my understanding that "Maintenance Mode" is when the entire original dev team moves on and someone else does the occasional bug fix and hosts servers as long as there are paying customers. So long as there's some amount of new content being made, no matter how small, I wouldn't call this "Maintenance Mode" just yet.

 

1 hour ago, Guyverarmor said:

Good or for bad, I agree with you on that. But now that EA does not have exclusive license for the SW IP, I am really hoping something comes along that can scratch more of the MMO itch in Star Wars. The IP is just too perfect for an open world MMO. 

I give SWTOR credit as a single player rpg though, that part it pulls off in spades. 

I'm gonna keep it real with you: I don't see any new Live Service Star Wars game on the same scale and "polish" as Galaxies or SWTOR to be coming out any time soon. The fatigue is setting in. Established giants are basically monopolizing the space, and even those giants are starting to slow down little by little. The market became too flooded with cheap micro-ridden f2p cash cows. Why do you think Star Wars characters have come to Fortnite over Lucasfilm directly finding a developer to make a Battlefront 3?

I've started saying it, and I'll continue to say it: After Legacy of the Sith wraps, it would likely end up being a better investment in the long run to start converting SWTOR into a 100% offline single-player experience. SWTOR has more than enough content to start making a "The Old Republic" game series out of rather than continue as a struggling 13yo MMO that's barely chugging along because there's no alternative within the same franchise.

 

12 hours ago, Stradlin said:

They just released a Flashpoint like 2 months back?

Wanna guess when the last content patch for GSF was? Seven years back,. that's when. Seven..years.

Seven years of just watching how patch after another after another keeps ignoring GSF completely. How  literally every single aspect of the game gets  repeatedly updated, besides my favorite part of it.

I've seen you say this a lot, and I'm gonna give you my honest opinion: I think the release and quick death of Star Wars Squadrons is a sign that the mainstream consumer isn't interested in the type of gameplay offered by it and GSF. Not unless Broadsword dedicated an entire X.0 expansion to incorporating GSF and its mechanics into the story. And at that point, you may as well make an entirely new game.

[juliushorst]

4 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Don't get me wrong: I like Fen, Fae, and Amity enough as Companions, but I don't think they were worth centering an entire Limited Time Event over (I can't speak to Altuur as I only ever got the companion unlock and never got further in that tree before I went on a break from SWTOR).

Altuur has some unique skills so he's a little more interesting.

Of course I would prefer more sociable companions but it's still better than nothing (Season 5) and - in my case - a stronghold (Season 6). Give me an option to recruit Umbral at the end of 5, give me a Chiss soldier who screams "For House Inrokini" at the end of 6 and I'll be much more invested and satisfied.

[DeannaVoyager]

7 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Okay, what do you people even mean by "endgame content"? This is an MMO. There is no endgame until the servers are shut down. Do you mean high difficulty content like Nightmare Operations? If that's what you mean, then I'll agree with you, but I'd like to point out that the team is far smaller than it was when Ops were a normal thing, and the last one they released was received so poorly (thanks to bugs) that they're likely scared to put all their monthly resources into making another one. They'd likely have to dedicate all the time they dedicated to Interpreter's Retreat, Kessan's Landing, and the new Hutta area combined if they wanted to get a positive reaction from the Operations crowd.

Any operations with multiple difficulty levels (SM/HM/MM) so that more people can enjoy them.

They can also get a positive reaction from operations crowd by removing the requirement to subscribe. The content is old and it's already been paid for multiple times with our old subsciptions. 

We don't know how their resources are being divided. You listed the new areas as something they have used resources on, which are not bad. I'll list GTN overhaul, UI changes, ability pruning, and pvp changes as something that caused more harm than good, but ate up resources they could have used for making new operations instead.

[GeneralGyro]

ill say it

 

if you're playing swtor for more than the 1-50 storylines you're doin it wrong

[Kazuone]

(Gemini trad, English is not my native langage )

Perhaps by delivering highly varied content for multiple player sets, the swtor team is gradually losing a certain identity. Especially in a community where players know exactly what they want and especially what they don't want.

Example: PVP and strongholds. PVP players probably don't appreciate housing and yet we regularly have strongholds. HL PVE players are probably not interested in new PVP arenas.

I would have liked a new flashpoint too, but honestly it takes a lot of work from them and in the end I would only have enjoyed the flashpoint too little in relation to the work done. I would be happy for GSF to evolve but not at the expense of the main story content.

Finally, perhaps the game was too rich and too varied in terms of evolution possibilities from its inception. The swtor team will probably never be able to satisfy enough players to assume a real identity. The team from the game's release is surely not as large now, so we have to wait until the next update that will give us a flashpoint

[Stradlin]

9 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

 

I've seen you say this a lot, and I'm gonna give you my honest opinion: I think the release and quick death of Star Wars Squadrons is a sign that the mainstream consumer isn't interested in the type of gameplay offered by it and GSF. Not unless Broadsword dedicated an entire X.0 expansion to incorporating GSF and its mechanics into the story. And at that point, you may as well make an entirely new game.

Good MMOs are all about different niches, different communities  intersecting and clashing with one another, eventually kinda cross pollinating. Big part of the lightning in the bottle. Ability to play a starfighter pilot who is  trapped inside an MMO- waiting lobby between the matches is a  legitimately cool and unique experience that nobody else on the market  does. Despite going SEVEN YEARS without any kind of dev love, GSF still has a big, lively and passionate community around it..that alone is saying something Imo.

If Star Citizen is any indication, people love the idea of throwing massive amounts of money at their space ships, if said ships look cool.

Squadrons was a very tall order for  a new player coming in. Devs openly suggested all playing it " should" find a team and enter the game together. People find that alienating.It is a shame though, the game is quite good. GSF community was interested of it, and worried: maybe this would be a game that'd kill GSF? Many  GSF  folks initially went for Squadrons...and most actually came back to GSF.

 

 

Its not like the GSF community is hoping for a moon ffrom the sky or anything. Nobody is expecting some massive pve expansion or 200 million dollar pilot class story. Just adding GSF to PvP seasons(or giving it a season of its own) would go a long way. Making the cosmetics and custom ships unlockable via collections would be nice. Both of these things would require very little work. Latter would bring them tons of cartel purchases.

 

 

Edited May 5 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, Kazuone said:

 

Finally, perhaps the game was too rich and too varied in terms of evolution possibilities from its inception. The swtor team will probably never be able to satisfy enough players to assume a real identity. The team from the game's release is surely not as large now, so we have to wait until the next update that will give us a flashpoint

Designing contrent for " everybody" is a terrible, hellish void where creativity and fun go to die.  Content for everybody is so infinitely  accessible and irrelevant that finding any fun from it is a massive challenge in itself. Content for everybody is something everybody will play, and nobody will enjoy. Designing more exclusive content for what, 6-8 different groups of somebodies is what MMO devs imo are stuck with. It isn't necessarily easy to do, but alternative is very stale and boring.

 

 

 

Edited May 5 by Stradlin

[LJ_Gibbs]

19 hours ago, Guyverarmor said:

For me, the dev team is the epitome of a line from "God of War: Ragnarok"

"If he says 'Snow is white' he's lying." This is just my opinion though. With how much they have dropped the ball on...well, pretty much everything in addition to be silent on multiple areas of the game and just not updating certain things (GSF seven year update drought says hi) I will never believe anything they say. I just can't.

When you say "10 year celebration will be big!" and the only thing big about it is the let down...that's all that needs to be said on their trust level.

I agree... but I get warned by mods when I say such things lol

[Gamer_Auto]

10 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Any operations with multiple difficulty levels (SM/HM/MM) so that more people can enjoy them.

They can also get a positive reaction from operations crowd by removing the requirement to subscribe. The content is old and it's already been paid for multiple times with our old subsciptions. 

We don't know how their resources are being divided. You listed the new areas as something they have used resources on, which are not bad. I'll list GTN overhaul, UI changes, ability pruning, and pvp changes as something that caused more harm than good, but ate up resources they could have used for making new operations instead.

The only way that I see them getting more people into Ops is:
1. Do what you suggest and unlock the 1.x - 3.x Operations for f2p users
2. Provide Story Mode versions that are comparable to the Story Mode Flashpoints (cutscenes, not as difficult enemies, NPC allies that can actually help complete the mission)
3. Ensure the mission releases with as few bugs as possible

 

9 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Good MMOs are all about different niches, different communities intersecting and clashing with one another, eventually kinda cross pollinating. Big part of the lightning in the bottle. Ability to play a starfighter pilot who is  trapped inside an MMO- waiting lobby between the matches is a  legitimately cool and unique experience that nobody else on the market  does. Despite going SEVEN YEARS without any kind of dev love, GSF still has a big, lively and passionate community around it..that alone is saying something Imo.

If Star Citizen is any indication, people love the idea of throwing massive amounts of money at their space ships, if said ships look cool.

Squadrons was a very tall order for  a new player coming in. Devs openly suggested all playing it " should" find a team and enter the game together. People find that alienating.It is a shame though, the game is quite good. GSF community was interested of it, and worried: maybe this would be a game that'd kill GSF? Many  GSF  folks initially went for Squadrons...and most actually came back to GSF.

Its not like the GSF community is hoping for a moon ffrom the sky or anything. Nobody is expecting some massive pve expansion or 200 million dollar pilot class story. Just adding GSF to PvP seasons(or giving it a season of its own) would go a long way. Making the cosmetics and custom ships unlockable via collections would be nice. Both of these things would require very little work. Latter would bring them tons of cartel purchases.

Paragraph 1: MMOs (with the exception of SWTOR and maybe TESO) are traditionally about grouping into guilds. It's as much a social app as it is a game. If aspects of the game aren't immediately accepted wholesale by the entire community, it gets left in the dust. I would know. The other MMO I play, Warframe, has this problem in spades. From what I gather, GSF didn't immediately jive with the entire community (the controls are awkward at first, the progression is completely different, there's zero chance for variety in builds. there's barely any customization compared to Outfitter, it's solely PvP with no PvE elements that would allow players to get used to the controls or provide some other kind of challenge). There'd have to be significant changes and additions to it, and seven years later, I don't think the current devs are willing to go through that trouble; at least not right now.

Paragraph 2: There's zero comparison to be had between SWTOR's GSF and SC. I have no idea why you brought that up.

Paragraph 3: Squadrons failed in the way that most PvP console games fail; it had a lackluster Single Player campaign, it was PvP focused, and it tried to push eSports on it's players when it really should have been an arcade-like PvP akin to CoD, Halo, or Battlefront. It it didn't take itself so seriously, it might still be relevant. Plus, it took what's otherwise a niche and tried to advertise it to the masses. There's a reason flight-sim games aren't mainstream.

Paragraph 4: At this point you may as well be asking for the moon. If the dev team didn't give GSF any attention in seven years and keeps making excuses as to why they can't add it's Galactic Seasons objectives to PvP Seasons, then there's clearly no interest from the dev team. And take it from a Warframe Player: if the devs have no interest in what you're asking for, it'll never happen. This team is half the size they used to be, has no apparent interest in GSF, and is more focused on QoL, asset modernization, and Story updates.

[Pirana]

Anyone that has been around for the last ten years or so already know this answer. If this game had been passed off to Blizzard, Arena Net, Zenimax, any number of larger studios out there, and there still wasn't a plethora of quality content being released, then yeah, I could understand the disdain, but it wasn't. Maintenance mode? No, it's not, but it's hovering just above it. 

This company is well aware of how much content this game now has compared to launch, so it will keep new players busy for a very long time, and that is what they're banking on, pun intended. Trickle in a bit of content here and there, that is the game now, and really, has been for years.

Edited May 5 by Pirana

[Nee-Elder]

49 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

. From what I gather, GSF didn't immediately jive with the entire community (the controls are awkward at first,

That was ( and still is ) only because  BioWare refused to provide  JOYSTICK support.

Any self-respecting  Pilot  knows  mouse&keyboard  ain't no way to fly.

51 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

There'd have to be significant changes and additions to it, and seven years later, I don't think the current devs are willing to go through that trouble [ of GSF revamp ] at least not right now.

Sadly, they never will.

It took me 7+ years of pleading with devs to pay some significant attention to GSF, but i've finally accepted it won't ever happen.

Instead of focusing on the *STAR*  in 'Star Wars' , current  Broadsword prefers  digital date nights + baking pies.  ( both fine as side mini-games , but not as primary "content" )

smh

[Trlance]

Why ask for new flashpoint? I prefer new planet than flashpoint what force you to done instanty and with hurry all bosses without time for longer exploration because when you will log out in the middle, entire thing you must start from the beginning. In my opinion this game have them enough for now. All what i want, less or zero Kotor style cutscenes. I still play Kessan's Landing then i don't know how here, but on Old Wounds story update 60-70% of it was Kotor style cutscenes with Czerka boring conflict, m. This is MAIN STORY .. this is unacceptable.... . 

Good would be more interesting story like on Ruhnuk, Elom or Echoes of Oblivion with good progress, not with tiny progress what we got for a while after Onslaught, endlessly wondering what Malgus or Mandalorians planing, for years. And finally end this endless Mandalorian conflict what should ended on Ruhnuk, m.

Anyway Kessan's Landing story looks better than Secret of the Enclave story or Old Wounds, m.

~ Tsukito, Alliance Commander

Edited May 5 by Trlance

[Stradlin]

20 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

That was ( and still is ) only because  BioWare refused to provide  JOYSTICK support.

Any self-respecting  Pilot  knows  mouse&keyboard  ain't no way to fly.

Sadly, they never will.

It took me 7+ years of pleading with devs to pay some significant attention to GSF, but i've finally accepted it won't ever happen.

Instead of focusing on the *STAR*  in 'Star Wars' , current  Broadsword prefers  digital date nights + baking pies.  ( both fine as side mini-games , but not as primary "content" )

smh

Hey now,

Elite:Dangerous is prolly the most sophisticated and complicated  space shooter ever made. Even there, among pvp crowd in particular,argument is always made for m+kb being superior to hotas. Joystick just can't beat the accuracy of m+kb.  Imho lmmersion as a factor  steps to picture only once its full cocpit view, pref  with a  VR.  But each their own!

 

I personally can't  imagine ever wanting to use my hotas or other toys with GSF. It was built for the mouse from the groundup. 3rd person view and controller like joystick just doesn't sit right with me. It'd feel like swinging a flashlight around when playing my sith character groundside. Ie kinda inpractical and  unnecessary more and immersive less.

Edited May 6 by Stradlin

[Nee-Elder]

8 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

,argument is always made for m+kb being superior to hotas. Joystick just can't beat the accuracy of m+kb.

i disagree and so does literally every  SW pilot ( from movies & lore ) in existence.

Not to mention every RL pilot in military service.

Show me an aircraft in war "flown" with  mouse&keyboard  and i'll show you a defeated/dead pilot.

It's sorta similar to comparing a hardcore PVP'er with their  keybinds + controller ( or gaming mouse )   going up against  lol casuals  without any keybinds  who just *click* commands in combat.

So yeah, i respectfully but vehemently disagree with you on this one mate and historical fact is on my side of the "argument" too.

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

i disagree and so does literally every  SW pilot ( from movies & lore ) in existence.

Not to mention every RL pilot in military service.

Show me an aircraft in war "flown" with  mouse&keyboard  and i'll show you a defeated/dead pilot.

It's sorta similar to comparing a hardcore PVP'er with their  keybinds + controller ( or gaming mouse )   going up against  lol casuals  without any keybinds  who just *click* commands in combat.

So yeah, i respectfully but vehemently disagree with you on this one mate and historical fact is on my side of the "argument" too.

Its just that we aren't talking about flying a real aircraft in a real  war, we luckily get to play scifi fairytale video games instead.  

 

You know, if real life cockpit of an actual F/A18 were a completely stable static, level, clean, unmoving  surface similar to some cosy pc battlestation, maybe they'd use mouses too.:D

 

It is prolly more useful to talk about other video games, not what real planes, real pilots do in real wars.

 

Here is a very convincing example from Elite

 

In Elite, you have two ways to flying. Flight Assist On and FA off. Latter has most potential and is superior in pvp. It has obscenely high requirements of skill, understanding  six different degrees of movement, all that. Most people doing former prefer joystic and HOTAS for immersion.  Many ultra hardcore pvp people who fly FA off prefer mouse. For most of those ppl, mouse+kb is just way more accurate and superior to any joystick in PC environment.

Honest question, do you consider swinging lightsaber with mouse buttons equally disturbing or  unimmersive?

 

Edited May 6 by Stradlin

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, Stradlin said:

It is prolly more useful to talk about other video games, not what real planes, real pilots do in real wars.

i also mentioned fictional STAR WARS too though.

2 hours ago, Stradlin said:

, do you consider swinging lightsaber with mouse buttons equally disturbing or  unimmersive?

First, i never said anything was "disturbing" , so please don't  misquote/misrepresent me.

Secondly,  no because  swinging LS is gravitationally grounded activity ( not flying , as in no  Yaw/Pitch/Roll ) .

Third, nice  attempt at  strawman'ing  lol .

Anyways, SWG JTL we coded for both m&k  AND for  joystick support, so there's no reason why BioWare couldn't also do same for GSF other than lazy dev'ing + poor old 'Hero' game engine limitations.  But why you of all people are trying to argue  mouse&keyboard is "better" than an actual  FLIGHT STICK for legit pilots  is beyond me and seems like a very strange forum-hill to fight on tbqh.   So before this goes  even more off-topic & sideways , i'll just leave you with  these....

•  goto the  1:03  mark--->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDJlqX-ZE1E
•  another in case you prefer static shot--> https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/image/upload/c_limit,h_360,w_640/e_sharpen:100/f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/v1/gameskinnyc/7/5/8/7589f4b61d1455.jpg

...which are directly from  'Elite Dangerous'  in-game official graphics.   Heck they even use FLIGHT STICK  while navigating on-planet too....

So umm, care to show  me the in-game  mouse&keyboard  versions?   I'll wait.

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*On-topic more:  Imagine if  we had a  STAR WARS version of  'Elite Dangerous' .... /sigh , so much potential  squandered here in SWTOR & GSF yet again.

Edited May 6 by Nee-Elder
Reason: STAR WARS game should be 'Elite Dangerous' EPIC & expansive!

[Stradlin]

24 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i

*On-topic more:  Imagine if  we had a  STAR WARS version of  'Elite Dangerous' .... /sigh , so much potential  squandered here in SWTOR & GSF yet again.

One can hope. Frontier(developer of Elite) has done pretty well with  huge 3rd party licenses in past.(Jurassic park) , so maybe one day.

 

I hear latest release of the  X-series has some interesting  new Stawa mod happening.