Can SWTOR No Longer Even Afford a New Flashpoint? Just Grind Systems?

[arunav]

What plans, if any, are in the works for a new Flashpoint? 

It doesn't have to be a story-heavy component of whatever narrative 7.x is going for, but it should adhere to the standards of the one-off Flashpoints from the base game - i.e., a cutscene explaining why the player character is going into the instance, and a 'debriefing' of sorts afterwards. A light/dark choice is probably too much to ask for, and Shrine of Silence was fine without one (though it most certainly lacked the story immersion of Red Reaper, what it was compared to beforehand, without the referenced cutscenes). 

Flashpoint boss mechanics in this game have never been too complicated, and I doubt they are as involved as designing new bosses for Operations. Will we see a new Flashpoint in 2024?

After seeing the 7.5 livestream, I can't help but wonder if that's the type of update we should expect going forward. In the view of this longtime subscriber, it's just sad you're promoting space chores for a companion in what sounded like old daily areas, and a farm for... more space chores. And longer PVP seasons that reward... adrenals and medpacks for an additional 2000 points to grind through (a nearly 29% increase in the season track)?

Have you seen what competitor MMOs of approximately the same age are doing? Those games charge the identical subscription fee.

What is SWTOR's team planning for the remainder of the year for its subscribers? Because that livestream was horrible. 

Edit: Lastly, since graphical updates were noted as an accomplishment in the livestream, please go back and fix what was done to Voss. It's one of SWTOR's best contributions to Star Wars, and, nearly a year later, the grass/ground still appears bugged or broken whenever a player... moves on the planet. Optical illusion or not (we've never seen an official response on the matter) resulting from the engine being stuck using DX9, the 7.3 update ruined the graphics in the base game's version of Voss.  

Edited May 2 by arunav

[Traceguy]

We just got Shrine of Silence not too long ago.  They give us a lot of flashpoints already since SOR, to the point it angers me, because they use flashpoints to fulfill the story. Something that didn't happen prior to SOR. Shrine of Silence was a breath of flesh air because it was finally a side story that wasn't forced into the story progression, much like the old ones dating back to Ilum. Before that, I believe these were the most recent.

Meridian Complex, Spirit of Vengeance, Force Enclave, Ruins of Nul

 

Edited May 1 by Traceguy

[arunav]

4 hours ago, Traceguy said:

We just got Shrine of Silence not too long ago. 

By the time 7.5 releases, it will be approximately 1 year since Shrine of Silence, which appears to have been mostly or entirely completed at BioWare, was released.

I think it's fair to ask, given the type of content we're seeing, if they still have the budget and personnel to design new Flashpoints.

Edited May 2 by arunav

[Toraak]

12 minutes ago, arunav said:

By the time 7.5 releases, it will be approximately 1 year since Shrine of Silence, which appears to have been mostly or entirely completed while the game was still at BioWare, was released.

I think it's fair to ask, given the type of content we're seeing, if they still have the budget and personnel to design new Flashpoints.

Considering that MM FP's aren't run that often by the community and we did just get a new FP last year, I'd personally want a new Operation or GSF update more. GSF hasn't been touched since patch 5.5, and the last Operation came out a while ago. Being R-4.

 

I'll admit because of how the gearing system works I haven't even bothered with Shrine of Silence on Solo or vet mode. I tried it on the PTS, and found it to dark graphically and have no interest in running it. It made me want my Very Low Graphics back when I did it on the PTS.

[Setta]

29 minutes ago, arunav said:

By the time 7.5 releases, it will be approximately 1 year since Shrine of Silence,

Operations have been longer.  A new PvP map even longer that that.  Any GSF update at all, completely none existent.  Yea we all want updates on stuff, but really for this game a year since the last time something was added is actually good by their standards.

[Toraak]

Just now, Setta said:

Operations have been longer.  A new PvP map even longer that that.  Any GSF update at all, completely none existent.  Yea we all want updates on stuff, but really for this game a year since the last time something was added is actually good by their standards.

The last GSF update was patch 5.5. Which if I remember correctly was Oct/Nov 2017 ish. That community has truly been ignored, which is why I keep pushing for GSF to be added to PvP season's. 3 TDM objectives, 3 Domination Objectives. GSF is pure PvP after all.

[Setta]

Just now, Toraak said:

The last GSF update was patch 5.5. Which if I remember correctly was Oct/Nov 2017 ish. That community has truly been ignored, which is why I keep pushing for GSF to be added to PvP season's. 3 TDM objectives, 3 Domination Objectives. GSF is pure PvP after all.

I 100% agree, and even suggested that GSF be added to the pvp track back in S1. Though I got some pushback on it even back then, and seems like the devs never figured it out either, as I know they considered the idea by S3, and then scrapped it cause the medal count wasn't to their liking or something.  Which would have been easy enough to fix, but yea completely agree.  

[DakhathKilrathi]

13 minutes ago, Setta said:

and then scrapped it cause the medal count wasn't to their liking or something. 

They scrapped it because of uh

 

Quote

The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs

Which was right after my fairly detailed post about what would be a reasonable level of effort to expect from an average player. I guess "people are bad at this game" was discouraging, but I answered honestly. 

That, or "fix the scoreboard before you require medals" didn't go over well. They still haven't fixed that either. 

Edited May 1 by DakhathKilrathi

[Guyverarmor]

Nope, Cartel Market items and drip feed story only. Best they can do.

[Setta]

7 minutes ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

They scrapped it because of uh

 

Which was right after my fairly detailed post about what would be a reasonable level of effort to expect from an average player. I guess "people are bad at this game" was discouraging, but I answered honestly. 

That, or "fix the scoreboard before you require medals" didn't go over well. They still haven't fixed that either. 

Looking over your post, and I actually agree with most of it in terms of what's expected from a skill perspective of an average player.  Overall you did a really good job.  That said there are 2 points I don't agree with, but I don't have the answer for how to fix them right now.  Perhaps if I thought about it longer, or perhaps they don't need fixing.  

1) The capture satellites giving medals.  I feel like this would create a zerg playstyle at the start to capture satellites for medals a few times, and then lead to a completely turtle style after as people defend to secure more medals.  I say this because in general we as players don't care about medals, and just want to have fun / win (ok I guess I don't speak for everyone, so will speak for myself).  If this became the objective that was based on medal count for a pvp season track, I feel like the meta would shift to that style rather quickly, and idk if that's good for the game or not.  Although I would be happy to be wrong, just a theoretical problem that I see.

2) My 2nd problem is that I think your greens should kinda stay in their own green category just for TDM. Cause atm, when you consider that domination already has enough easy ways to gather medals, and add in the green ones on top of it, it's just over kill.  However maybe you a genius and you realized this already.  At which point you considered the fact that since domination medals would be so easy to earn with the TDM added on on top, there would be no need for the zerg / turtle play style I just suggested as you're likely going to cap on the necessary medal count for that match.  Say part of the pvp track was earn 8 medals in GSF for match.  This would be insanely easy to hit, even for relatively new players (not completely right out the box new who can't even fly right, but new), and perhaps that's the goal. If so +1 my good sir, you are a scholar and a gentleman.

But yea there's really not much that I disagree with here, assuming a GSF pvp track was made in the same way and added to the pvp track as an optional choice with the arena & wz options. An example (but #s can be tweaked) :

100 points Play 10 GSF Matches
100 points earn at least 8 medals in 4 GSF Matches (really, really easy with what you wrote especially under domination)
100 Points win 4 GSF Matches.

 All this going towards your pvp progress bar, I 100% support this.

[arunav]

2 hours ago, Guyverarmor said:

Nope, Cartel Market items and drip feed story only. Best they can do.

They should have kept 6.x systems in place, then. The game was in a much better state to go into semi-maintenance before 7.0, weapons in Outfitter and new playable areas/story aside. There are some aspects of the GTN overhaul that are definitively improvements too. 

Adding CM items and QoL additions, alongside fixing longstanding bugs, would have been preferred, for the most part, compared to what has been done in 7.x.  

 

Edited May 2 by arunav

[Guyverarmor]

12 hours ago, arunav said:

They should have kept 6.x systems in place, then. The game was in a much better state to go into semi-maintenance before 7.0, weapons in Outfitter and new playable areas/story aside. There are some aspects of the GTN overhaul that are definitively improvements too. 

Adding CM items and QoL additions, alongside fixing longstanding bugs, would have been preferred, for the most part, compared to what has been done in 7.x.  

 

Oh don't say that around here, using logic and making sense. Gonna have all the Broadsword White Knights come out in force blasting you because you mentioned "Semi-Maintenance mode".

[Traceguy]

16 hours ago, arunav said:

By the time 7.5 releases, it will be approximately 1 year since Shrine of Silence

That's only because of how slowly content is dripping. Realistically it was only a couple updates ago.

[Gamer_Auto]

I'm not gonna White Knight, I'm not gonna doom and gloom. Imma keep it real, from my point of view. After the team being slashed in half and then moved to a different studio, I wouldn't expect anything as big as a Flashpoint until 8.0 at best. Not unless Broadsword somehow conjures up the funds to hire on more people for the SWTOR team.

Plus, multiplayer modes like FPs and Ops aren't that big a deal anymore; considering the game has been primarily Single Player focused since 5.0. Adding in the immense backlash to how integral to the story Flashpoints were during 5.x and 6.x (Traitor Arc, Objective Meridian, Spirit of Vengence, Ruins of Null), how lackluster the Shrine of Silence was, and how literally nobody uses the Group Finder for any FP but Hammer Station anymore (easy grind), I would expect the devs to be hesitant to put their extremely limited resources into making another one when they can just stick to the easy content and QoL updates they've been making since 7.4.

For right now, if you're really not happy with how the game is doing, I would suggest finding something else to play for a while, and check back on SWTOR every other month or so to see if you wanna return. In the 2024 economy, you shouldn't force yourself to sub to a game you're not enjoying. I'm sure the devs wouldn't either (even if they can't admit it publicly).

Optimism Section:

Spoiler

Who knows? Maybe the Art Modernization and QoL updates are taking up a lot more resources than we realize, and we'll see FPs and Ops return after those are done. Between Art & QoL Updates and a likely mandated need to make new CM stuff based on whatever's currently being advertised by Derpney, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

 

[DeannaVoyager]

Considering they aren't providing any new end game content that requires subscription, they should remove that requirement from old content too (uprisings and operations). I know a lot of people who would join a random raid every now and then, but it's quite expensive if you have to pay a full month's sub for two hours of playing.

Now those people aren't logging in at all, which means they won't be seeing what's in CM either.

[Hrafnhildur]

Let's play a game : tell me your Flashpoint ideas! 

Here are mine : 

1. Athiss 2 : somehow, Vodal Kressh took over the body of a Jedi explorer and drove him mad. The Empire and the Republic send people to deal with the situation, only to discover the Jedi has rare Force powers or abilities and, because is possessed by Vodal Kressh, can somehow summon back to life Professor Ley'arsha,The Beast and the Prophet. In the end, the players will have two options : a:) LS option to free Master *insert name here* and send him/her to Tython and b:) to kill him/her and destroy Athiss. 

2. Holiday is over : a flashpoint where all classes get to meet Holiday ( the holographic companion of Tharan Cedrax) and help her deal with other beings like herself and with a few demented AI . I imagine this instance looking like the TfB one or something close to it. 

 

[GuigeekRhadamant]

Simple answer :

"Content" like this makes us grind for weeks for the cheevos even if they're sh*t. Real content don't need such dedication so we play less. That's why we never get actual content in the game

[AFadedMemory]

8 minutes ago, GuigeekRhadamant said:

Real content

You mean content you like. If everyone saw zero value in the events,story, market item etc. no one would be logged onto the game letting along being able to post on the forums. (Unless you think paying for a subscription to solely post here is worth $15)

Edited May 3 by AFadedMemory

[GuigeekRhadamant]

5 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

You mean content you like. If everyone saw zero value in the events,story, market item etc. no one would be logged onto the game letting along being able to post on the forums. (Unless you think paying for a subscription to solely post here is worth $15)

Indeed, noone sees value in events in SWTOR, it has zero lore interest, no high end content, we have to do them because of the cheevos and rewards at some merchant.

The only things people value are 1) story mode, 2) OPs and 3) PVP

Cheevos and loot hunters like myself just have to cope with the rest to get it done, but it's no fun at all

Edited May 3 by GuigeekRhadamant

[AFadedMemory]

4 minutes ago, GuigeekRhadamant said:

Indeed, noone sees value in events in SWTOR, it has zero lore interest, no high end content, we have to do them because of the cheevos and rewards at some merchant.

The only things people value are 1) story mode, 2) OPs and 3) PVP

Cheevos and loot hunters like myself just have to cope with the rest to get it done, but it's no fun at all

I’ve been playing this game on and off since 2016. I haven’t even completed kotfe or started kotet. (I beat ossus just to gain access to the dailies) I played my first operation in 2023/2024 and I hate PVP. I can emphatically say those are not the only things people value.

[GuigeekRhadamant]

Maybe you don't value, pvp or ops, but you certainly won't value dailies or events because none of these have any lore interest, none are difficult, none give nice rewards

[AFadedMemory]

I literally play this game for events, dailies, strongholds, and the GTN. None of those are difficult or have lore interests. granted I can make the event and dailies more difficult if I modify gear and companion focus/action, I also often play missions with characters that don’t have companions unlocked. 

Your definition of nice rewards does not equal everybody’s definition of nice rewards.

that said I do think the farm event seems dumb, but I’ll check to see what decorations they have and see if I enjoy it after attempting to claim them. I thought that the feast of prosperity would be garbage and that opinion changes when I actually play it.

[GuigeekRhadamant]

15 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

I literally play this game for events, dailies, strongholds, and the GTN. None of those are difficult or have lore interests. granted I can make the event and dailies more difficult if I modify gear and companion focus/action, I also often play missions with characters that don’t have companions unlocked. 

Your definition of nice rewards does not equal everybody’s definition of nice rewards.

that said I do think the farm event seems dumb, but I’ll check to see what decorations they have and see if I enjoy it after attempting to claim them. I thought that the feast of prosperity would be garbage and that opinion changes when I actually play it.

- Yeah, you can still put your gear away and only keep your weapon, but again 0 interest in doing so. If you need to nerf yourself to get difficulty, it means the game is terrible (let's not talk about copero's or rishi's FP nerf 💩)

- I too will do the event because there are decorations that won't be anywhere else, that doesn't mean I'll ever enjoy it, I know I won't since it doesn't involve actual content (a.k.a hard content where you can fight or sneak or whatever you want to do to get an actual accomplishment)

- I hope you're not talking about the kitchen mission that lasts forever and is repetitive asf...

[juliushorst]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:53 PM, DakhathKilrathi said:

They scrapped it because of uh

They scrapped is because - I assume - they found a few voices opposing the idea and decided to treat them as the voice of the community. Same thing with companions in galactic season. Whatever means less work is the voice of the community.

[Jett-Rinn]

I thought it was pretty much understood that SWTOR is in maintenance mode, and we're not getting much past bug fixes?  I mean if you look at it from that viewpoint we should all be pleasantly surprised we've gotten what we've have.