7.0 Killed PVP.

[Anhkriva]

3 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

My Ideal fix, is literally just revert the prunning, Give everyone back their abilites. It makes it far easier to balance when everyone has all their skills.

My ideal fix would be separating pvp and pve balance by allowing skills to work differently, or have different values depending on target - npc or pc. This solution would require too much work to be a realistic option.

 

[RACATW]

28 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

It's technically not bugged but an issue

You what mate? An "issue" is the very definition of a bug.

[RACATW]

1 hour ago, Beyrahl said:

I don't mean to specifically point you out or anything, but Rage Juggernaut is the most mobile it has ever been. Even with the CDR on intercede being removed. I still take Blade Blitz and many others do, now that Reflect is not as hard-capped in damage as it was Reflect is a considerable choice. It, however, doesn't change the fact the class is more mobile than ever. I am not too sure how you play Rage, but I offer my way. Maybe you could find more enjoyment. 
 

as an unbiased AP PT enjoyer, it is busted. 

 

It's technically not bugged but an issue with latency and the fact the duration is on .5th of a second where if it was rounded up (like the other abilities like it) it would be more consistent and useful. 
 

It's more so the EU & NA side showing themselves. On EU it's nearly always been the range is kiting/desyncing and they don't bother to put into effort of dealing with them if it means lost DPS. While on NA, that isn't a thing mostly due to skill gaps being even more drastic here than they are there.
 

It doesn't take much to steer it back on track, I don't think they messed up because I would rather enjoy this much more advanced version of the game than a classic version. We likely won't see another massive combat overhaul or rebalance until the next expansion so I would just buckle up and wait until and or if another expansion ever gets announced or a post regarding balance ever comes up to give proper feedback. 


 

Separately, the only real reason PTs are in a semi good place is due to their various immunities to stun and knockback, it's a bit like they have a worse entrench. They're still not as annoying as ranged for me. You can even beat them in 1v1s as melee.

If you focus them they can go down like a glass cannon.

 

Also about Rage Juggernaut, you're talking from the point of an experienced pvper but I will challenge you to fight a few good meta comps as Rage Juggernaut. There's a very good reason nobody played it in ranked, or vengeance for the past 10+ years. Dps Juggernaut is horrible vs good players. So you're picking a horrible hill to die on. No good players will hit into enraged defense. I also guarantee you that they will often root you and stun lock you repeatedly, there's no mobility vs good players. And it requires an unsustainable amount of focus and perfection to have it as your main (against good players in challenges).

Edited December 29, 2023 by RACATW
typing on phone

[Beyrahl]

37 minutes ago, RACATW said:

You what mate? An "issue" is the very definition of a bug.

Game bugs or glitches or defects are an unexpected result from the code used in the game build.

It's functioning as it should, it's just a few examples caused by player latency that it doesn't. Explaining how it can be fixed doesn't make it a bug. They're likely unaware of it even as it's not as common as you think it is. In most cases "fixing" it the way I suggest makes it look like a buff/balance change which isn't something they do lightly. 
A bug would be something not working right, which in this case is working right. My proposed fix is a bandaid to the real problem of latency. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, RACATW said:

Also about Rage Juggernaut, you're talking from the point of an experienced pvper but I will challenge you to fight a good meta comp as Rage Juggernaut. There's a very good reason nobody played it in ranked, or vengeance for the past 10+ years. Dps Juggernaut is horrible vs good players. So you're picking a horrible hill to die on.

Played and did both things you suggested, but yeah, I am not saying they're "great" against good meta comps. I never said that actually, what I did say is that their mobility is the best it's ever been. 

[RACATW]

21 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Game bugs or glitches or defects are an unexpected result from the code used in the game build.

It's functioning as it should, it's just a few examples caused by player latency that it doesn't. Explaining how it can be fixed doesn't make it a bug. They're likely unaware of it even as it's not as common as you think it is. In most cases "fixing" it the way I suggest makes it look like a buff/balance change which isn't something they do lightly. 
A bug would be something not working right, which in this case is working right. My proposed fix is a bandaid to the real problem of latency. 

 

 

Played and did both things you suggested, but yeah, I am not saying they're "great" against good meta comps. I never said that actually, what I did say is that their mobility is the best it's ever been. 

In software dev you would open an "issue" to fix the bug. I have that bug occur 99% of the time, my ping is 20-50.

 

Rage juggs are literally trash vs good players. In fact, their mobility could be called nonexistent, it only exists in certain unique situations vs bad players. After that they'll be rooted, stun locked and globalled.

 

Having force leap be from 0m again would help slightly vs good players. But they'll never be able to pvp vs good players in their current state.

(This still wouldn't help vs sniper, since sniper can't be leapt to, but they will hit you for 300k damage while youre rooted)

Edited December 29, 2023 by RACATW

[septru]

16 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

And if you’ve ever played a rage Jugg as a main, you’ll realise that you’ve lost most of your mobility since 7.0.

This is just factually false.

11 hours ago, RACATW said:

There's a very good reason nobody played it in ranked, or vengeance for the past 10+ years. Dps Juggernaut is horrible vs good players.

This is also factually false. There were several rage and vengeance juggs in the past 10+ years of ranked. In fact, I got 2 gold and 1 top jugg in Season 14 by solely playing vengeance (and that's despite all of the skank tanks that farmed bad tanks). If we still had ranked, I would likely almost exclusively play rage jugg.

 

DPS jugg is amazing against good players, in the hands of good players. Although the skill bottom for dps jugg is extremely low, the skill cap for dps jugg is extremely high. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by septru

[meddani]

13 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

as an unbiased AP PT enjoyer, it is busted. 

i'm curious what's busted besides the stealth scan thingy, been a while since i played AP.

[SoyElSenado]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:58 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I was tempted to say SWTOR has the worst PVP in any MMO, but I'm sure there are actual worst ones. I'm Pretty sure the Day Before MMO had better PVP than SWTOR's currently. It might also get a bit heated so forewarning here. Again No Harassment towards the Dev's, This is more so a Wake up Call post.

The sad truth of it is, is that the failure of PVP lies in the hands of the Dev's. The Dev's do nothing but watch as much of their Communities' exile themselves from this game. Be it GSF, the Raid Community, and their PVP Community. Their only Goal is making small bits of story, and Riding the Cartel Market Train. 

PVP wasn't as bad as it was now, even Launch 7.0's PVP wasn't terrible as it is now. But through Refusing to listen to the fans, the Dev's have alienated their PVP fanbase. 

Prunning: 

This IMO killed enjoyment of the game for me and for many Others, I did a Poll on the SWTOR Reddit Here, The vast majority of Players hate Prunning Myself Included, it dumbs down the game and takes away player Control, I'd rather have more complexity to a spec and getting through the learning curve, than babyfying all the specs. 

It wouldn't be so bad if the Prunning was done well, It wasn't. 

There is such a questionable amount of changes they made, Why did Sins and Sorcs get off relatively Scot free, when specs like Sniper were slammed with the nerf hammer? Snipers lost all their survivability and toolkit, 15% Roll heal was great in PVP, Vital Regulators is nice, but try healing up when you have a Rage Jug camping himself on you (more on that later). 

Even More Broken Meta: 

I want to say that meta specs are nothing new in SWTOR, However in 7.0 they were made even more annoying to deal with. Skank Tank jug is the best thing that comes to mind, Tank Defensives and DPS levels of DMG. Or Should I bring up Madness Sorc? This spec has been broken for almost two years now, and barely any nerfs were done to it, in fact they got a buff with their new Passive that gives opponent's a 25%  Reduction to DMG, and themselves a cooldown on their Hard CC. What were the Dev's thinking of making an already powerful spec even more broken?! 

Rage jug is the new Fury Marauder currently, Except Fury Marauder didn't have numerous Defensives you have to break down, Seriously as someone who plays sniper a lot, The Fury Jug meta is so broken and is already an even further Death Sentence to snipers. 

Premades: 

What hasn't been said about Premades already either by me or 100 other people on this Forum, Premades straight up are killing PVP. They exist to not Play Objectives but rather just Spawn trap players, and farm kills to feed their egos. 8 Man Premades should've never been a thing, The only reason why the Dev's allowed 8 Man Premades to be a thing, was to try and keep the Ranked players around to farm Casual players (At least my theory is). 

Even 4 Man Premades throw balance out the window, because they will Meta Stack and do the meta we all expect; Skank tank jug, Healer, and usually Madness Sorcs or more Jugs. 

This was taken from a match just tonight, Against a Premade with a Skank tank jug, Pocket Merc healer, Deception sin, and 1-2 jugs. How is this Fair at all to solo Players? How are they supposed to be able to beat this? 

Before people say "Make your own Preamde" I have and do play with guildes however they are not available a lot of the time I play and especially right now during the holidays. We can run over most other Premades because they lack the 1v1 Skills and are so used to farming solo's that when they run into a more skilled group of players they fold, but this is something that rarely happens in PVP nowadays.

I was for a time, Ok limit premades down to 4, but seeing just how broken even a 4 Man Premade is, I'm sorry but with the low PVP Pop as is, I think Premades should just be removed from PVP entirely. I don't think Splitting the Q will fix it either, The game does not have the population for Group and Solo PVP. 

If you want to see to just how bad premades kill a match, just watch as the players leave a match when a Premade is farming your team hard. 

TTK (Time to Kill): 

In my Opinion TTK currently is way too Fast, Its extremely easy to force a team back to spawn and camp them there, I have been in those situations numerous times, its even worse on modes like Quesh huttball, Where you drop down and they can just kill you like that. There is no Spawn Protection for players, As soon as they drop down they die. In past Expansions, To my knowledge this was technically possible but the DPS required made it extremely difficult to do so. Now it not uncommon to force an enemy team back to their base. 

TTK needs to be increased, this will make it easier for new players and casual players not feel like their getting Deleted in 5 Secs after spawning. 

CC Spam: 

OK CC spam is nothing new but in current PVP, Most of my Deaths are literally caused by this. A majority of my PVP matches just ends up with the entire team resorting to CC spamming me to death, I'll be in a 1v1 versus another opponent, and surprise I now have two jugs force Choking me back to back.......And I'm dead. Rinse and Repeat. 

Whitebar would be great, if it worked properly.... 

See the thing is, With the Reduced TTK, I don't think the Dev's actually bothered to adjust whitebar for this, This is why you will often Die before it actually kicks in. 

Lack of Competitive Incentive:

With the removal of ranked PVP, there is no incentive for vets or those eager PVP'ers who want to get better, Something to actually work towards. PVP seasons does not scratch that itch, It has the potential though. 

The game already tracks your stats which you can view, How hard would it be to create a leaderboard like system and at the end of every PVP Seasons, The top 50 to 100 PVP'ers are rewarded with Extra PVP Tokens, Unique PVP Gear, and a Flair based on their Performance (Gold, Silver, Bronze). This would be system that you would simply opt in, Should you just wish to do the PVP Seasons Track, you don't have to opt in and you can play like Normal. 

Of course if Premades were to still be a thing, We would have to account for them. 

Solo Players would receive the normal amount of Points towards their ELO status, While Grouped players receive half if not 1/4 of it. 

Conclusion: 

To @JackieKo or to @EricMusco, If you have the time to read this, I apologize if my Language is rough or condescending, Understand that it is just almost two years of frustration that I had to let out. But in Seriousness PVP is in Dire need of help, and in fact this whole game is. It needs a Battlefront 2  Comeback. 

2024 is a new year, and I can see that the Dev's are trying to listen to player feedback, if they can start implementing good QOL changes that the PVP community needs, I think we can slowly start rebuilding this game mode.

 

You forgot the non existence of any competitive structure/system to incentivize players

+1 lol’d at the day before reference

[RACATW]

1 hour ago, septru said:

This is just factually false.

This is also factually false. There were several rage and vengeance juggs in the past 10+ years of ranked. In fact, I got 2 gold and 1 top jugg in Season 14 by solely playing vengeance (and that's despite all of the skank tanks that farmed bad tanks). If we still had ranked, I would likely almost exclusively play rage jugg.

 

DPS jugg is amazing against good players, in the hands of good players. Although the skill bottom for dps jugg is extremely low, the skill cap for dps jugg is extremely high. 

Veng jugg had several issues, first, cut to pieces didn't exist for a long time making a good veng slam difficult to time. Second, vengeance dots are short and stunning will interrupt. Third, you can burst them down to low hp, then ignore them, or focus them right thru ED. Fourth, a net or playing vs ranged will limit your dot spread. Fifth, youre talking about Season 14. What this all means is that you weren't playing good players who understood these basic things.

Rage juggernauts on the other hand were a poor man's Fury Mara for the longest time. They still have issues but they're in a mildly better spot. The removal of soresu form completely nerfed dps juggernauts and lowered the skill cap difference. Of the top 100 juggernauts on every server, almost all of them played tank. Pretending otherwise is pointless, and the fact you said "several" is genuinely funny. Yes, there may have been one or two legit dps juggernauts who did it the right way, but in the context of the big picture it's perfectly accurate to state nobody in a hyperbole way. It was 1 or 2 dps juggernauts out of the top 500~ tank juggernauts.

[Beyrahl]

6 hours ago, meddani said:

what's busted

Hmmm 
I suppose in the hands of the inexperienced it doesn't seem that way.

[RaithHarth]

I have no issue with premades but they shouldn't be mixed in with Reg pvp players, they should have their own pvp queue bracket.

For someone that's been pvping since launch, this is by far the worst pvp we ever had, I'm suffering more loses than wins.

Edited December 30, 2023 by RaithHarth

[septru]

9 hours ago, RACATW said:

Veng jugg had several issues, first, cut to pieces didn't exist for a long time making a good veng slam difficult to time. Second, vengeance dots are short and stunning will interrupt. Third, you can burst them down to low hp, then ignore them, or focus them right thru ED. Fourth, a net or playing vs ranged will limit your dot spread. Fifth, youre talking about Season 14. What this all means is that you weren't playing good players who understood these basic things.

Arenas (4 dps) games are sonly about getting the first kill, while you stay alive. That's literally the most basic concept of arenas. Slam spam did not matter because single target damage is ALWAYS preferred. And even when it existed, 99% veng juggs in solo ranked used grit teeth because it made veng jugg almost immortal by allowing them to get second, third, and even fourth Enraged Defenses even in 4 dps games. Here's an example in r2 of Biggs using the tactical to get to second ED despite playing  very poorly. The fact of the matter is that really good veng juggs in ranked abused warmonger and war master with Grit Teeth, nimble master, and force bound to practically never die. These are all basic facts that anyone that actually played ranked, or even just watched any twitch stream knew. But only on the forums, do literal randos go around talking as if they know something that they clearly have 0 clue about.  

 

Why does any of this matter though? Because in 7.2, rage jugg was given almost all of veng jugg's defensive kit, aside from Grit Teeth and Forcebound which were removed from the game. Granted, the removal of grit teeth was a significant nerf, but it was largely offset by the introduction of the Second Wind which is the equivalent to a poor man's Grit Teeth. Moreover, contrary to TrixxieTriss's factually false belief, rage jugg was given significant mobility buffs in 7.2 (that allow it to be more mobile than it's ever been) including, a root break on enrage pain, a root break on enrage, a root break on intercede, and the warmonger and war master utilities that had previously only been available to veng juggs. It has so much mobility, that even though rage jugg can spec into mad dash and use the new Grit Teeth tactical to synergize with the Nimble Master legendary, when I log on for PvP (which is almost once a month now) I usually don't take them, opting for more dps with reflect, the pve dps tactical and pve dps legendary. Rage jugg is incredibly strong, probably only secondary to AP PT because AP PT has carb and stealth scan, which is certainly "busted." 

[meddani]

21 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Hmmm 
I suppose in the hands of the inexperienced it doesn't seem that way.

hmm, why didn't  you quote the rest huh? inexperienced? pretty sure i play PT longer than you

*account made in 2014* yep i do 

Edited December 30, 2023 by meddani

[SoontirMorillo]

52 minutes ago, meddani said:

hmm, why didn't  you quote the rest huh? inexperienced? pretty sure i play PT longer than you

*account made in 2014* yep i do 

"Account made in" is not an indication for anything. I know players, who lost their account(s) after every single Ranked Season.

[Beyrahl]

4 hours ago, meddani said:

*account made in 2014* yep i do 

If being around longer is an indication of ability, I don't want to be here. 

But let's start with the obvious, stealth scan, 15meter range, Powerlode now baked in, energy burst reset on power yield, relatively untouched by pruning, majority damage is yellow except rail shot which is your main sustain on single target only, a tactical that dumbs it down further to do what good power techs would do by lining TD with other high damage abilities at once achieving over 150k+ hitsplats, superior damage reduction than it's peers, carbonize, pull, hydros, double leap, honestly, if you can't figure it out by now I don't think you're much of a melee player.
Powertech takes all the basics of the game and throws them into one simplified kit. It does everything every melee can do but better in almost every way, except only a handful of things like Slam spam. There's a reason why it's been as popular as it is for group gameplay and without any significant changes it'll remain that way, I am not saying it should be nerfed but it'd be completely oblivious to think it's not busted. It could receive multiple different changes/nerfs and likely still be incredibly good. Not many other classes are in that state. 

also if we're flexing things that don't matter, I have ruthless vg + #1 spot for pt/vg in s12 and gold on every class multiple times over on all melees. As someone who was only into group-ranked and a solo-ranked casual at best (sub 1,500 solo arenas across my account), I would assume you're doing better and have a higher understanding of it than I do.

 

respectfully,
more than just a forum pvper
 

[meddani]

46 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

....

 

so why didn't you say that earlier instead of half-ass quoting my comment and making a dumb comment? lol

[RACATW]

On 12/29/2023 at 11:26 PM, septru said:

Here's an example in r2 of Biggs using the tactical to get to second ED despite playing  very poorly. The fact of the matter is that really good veng juggs in ranked abused warmonger and war master with Grit Teeth, nimble master, and force bound to practically never die. These are all basic facts that anyone that actually played ranked, or even just watched any twitch stream knew. But only on the forums, do literal randos go around talking as if they know something that they clearly have 0 clue about.  

Not only are you talking about the most boring ranked seasons in my memory, you keep talking about things that were instantly removed from the game from a swtor balancing timeline perspective (we rarely ever have any balancing except to nerf melee classes like jugg, mara or sin into the ground -- or buff ranged classes like sorc recently).

Also I have no idea what you're trying to show with the Biggs video or why you're saying he's playing poorly, but here's an example of Prum playing  very poorly. Note the double smash into 2 of the stealth players.

Quote

Rage jugg is incredibly strong, probably only secondary to AP PT because AP PT has carb and stealth scan, which is certainly "busted."  use the new Grit Teeth tactical to synergize with the Nimble Master legendary, when I log on for PvP (which is almost once a month now) I usually don't take them, opting for more dps with reflect, the pve dps tactical and pve dps legendary

Engi sniper easily takes the cake, do you know how high they can hit? Theirs is the best burst in the game right now, with AP PT being second. Plus sorcs have an incredible amount of control right now (both madness and lightening), good luck playing jugg vs a few good sorcs or assorted ranged classes.

 

Also "Nimble Master legendary", "grit teeth", "synergy" you have to be memeing. I admit it's a funny picture in my head, but if an AP PT, engi sniper or more than 1 person looks at you for longer than 10 seconds you're dead long before any such "synergy" can occur.  Or maybe you're talking about warzones, in which case I have a tiny amount of agreement situationally. 

[supertimtaf]

On 12/30/2023 at 3:35 AM, RaithHarth said:

I have no issue with premades but they shouldn't be mixed in with Reg pvp players, they should have their own pvp queue bracket.

For someone that's been pvping since launch, this is by far the worst pvp we ever had, I'm suffering more loses than wins.

Maybe it's just me and my filthy Darth Malgus PvP knowledge, but premades are... Not a bother ? I mean, I think it comes down to a skill issue rather than actual "oh no them being together gives them a stat boost"

Practice doing callouts, placing markers on target that needs to be focused down, don't hit guard, use taunt to keep allies alive longer, use roots and cc to keep the rest of the group at bay...?

Again, maybe I'm just really good (doubt it, seeing how rusty I am) but there's no way you're telling me that premades are what makes or break a game. Maybe they're better players, that has an impact on games. But you also have a full team on your side (that can be absolute donkeys I concede). Overall it seems more like a skill issue and communication issue than a "they will always win because they're a group".

Maybe if Broadsword spent more time teaching players how to perform well even on "casual content", premades of good players wouldn't be an issue. Banning premades will not change the fact that these players will still faceroll you solo because they're better than you.  

[Anhkriva]

21 minutes ago, supertimtaf said:

Maybe it's just me and my filthy Darth Malgus PvP knowledge, but premades are... Not a bother ? I mean, I think it comes down to a skill issue rather than actual "oh no them being together gives them a stat boost"

Practice doing callouts, placing markers on target that needs to be focused down, don't hit guard, use taunt to keep allies alive longer, use roots and cc to keep the rest of the group at bay...?

Again, maybe I'm just really good (doubt it, seeing how rusty I am) but there's no way you're telling me that premades are what makes or break a game. Maybe they're better players, that has an impact on games. But you also have a full team on your side (that can be absolute donkeys I concede). Overall it seems more like a skill issue and communication issue than a "they will always win because they're a group".

Maybe if Broadsword spent more time teaching players how to perform well even on "casual content", premades of good players wouldn't be an issue. Banning premades will not change the fact that these players will still faceroll you solo because they're better than you.  

Isn't that the point? Since they play as a group, they have an advantage in communication, and this advantage is voice chat and the opportunities it creates. Giving yourself instructions and coordinating activities in real time is a huge advantage, or at least it should be.

As a Malgus player, I must agree that I do not see this problem on our server. Premades are either so rare that I don't come across them, or they are created by players who do not dominate even with this advantage and I cannot even say that they are premade.

[supertimtaf]

48 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

Isn't that the point? Since they play as a group, they have an advantage in communication, and this advantage is voice chat and the opportunities it creates. Giving yourself instructions and coordinating activities in real time is a huge advantage, or at least it should be.

In a perfect world you can ideally emulate said coordination on strikes even with randoms. Place one player of your team as Focus Target, and bind the "Aquire Focus Target's Target" option. Now at the touch of a button you can now target the same opponent as your ally does, without the need for voicechat.

Sure it's not perfect, as in, you will probably override ccs from time to time, but this happens to the best of us. But at least it gives you the advantage of following another player and coordinating with a random. Target swapping and cc chaining is the only two real things that voicechat can give you, and there are in-game ways to alleviate the lack of voicechat. So truly, I don't really know if that's such an unfair advantage.

[Anhkriva]

2 hours ago, supertimtaf said:

In a perfect world you can ideally emulate said coordination on strikes even with randoms. Place one player of your team as Focus Target, and bind the "Aquire Focus Target's Target" option. Now at the touch of a button you can now target the same opponent as your ally does, without the need for voicechat.

Sure it's not perfect, as in, you will probably override ccs from time to time, but this happens to the best of us. But at least it gives you the advantage of following another player and coordinating with a random. Target swapping and cc chaining is the only two real things that voicechat can give you, and there are in-game ways to alleviate the lack of voicechat. So truly, I don't really know if that's such an unfair advantage.

I never said that such an advantage was unfair, I only said that it existed. When I wrote about the advantage, I had more in mind the WZ than the arena. Coordination and quick exchange of information are more important there.

[ilubebi]

On 1/3/2024 at 11:41 AM, supertimtaf said:

In a perfect world you can ideally emulate said coordination on strikes even with randoms. Place one player of your team as Focus Target, and bind the "Aquire Focus Target's Target" option. Now at the touch of a button you can now target the same opponent as your ally does, without the need for voicechat.

Sure it's not perfect, as in, you will probably override ccs from time to time, but this happens to the best of us. But at least it gives you the advantage of following another player and coordinating with a random. Target swapping and cc chaining is the only two real things that voicechat can give you, and there are in-game ways to alleviate the lack of voicechat. So truly, I don't really know if that's such an unfair advantage.

Sorry, but it is.

Me saying: "Let's CC this person, while you kite this person. A and B keep the healer away from their tank" is far more advantageous than targeting someone's target. Please let me know how that goes for you next time you're PVPing. Let me know how many CCs you waste, and f[  ]k all if you target a person's target that has zero clue what they're doing.

 

In before "I do this all the time bro and it's not perfect but instead, it's ✨flawless✨."

[supertimtaf]

13 hours ago, ilubebi said:

Me saying: "Let's CC this person, while you kite this person. A and B keep the healer away from their tank"

True that this works, I can't deny that, and I encourage players that do wanna actually play arenas well to do that. I should have stated that this was just for warzones though as it's what I mostly play atm, since arenas are kinda meh now that there isn't ranked anymore. That's on me  Imo there is absolutely *no need* for such a level of coordinations in warzones.

And who tf plays arenas in 2024 anyway but that's another debate for another time I think

[Setta]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:58 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

PVP wasn't as bad as it was now, even Launch 7.0's PVP wasn't terrible as it is now. But through Refusing to listen to the fans, the Dev's have alienated their PVP fanbase.

My honest opinion is if the devs reverted everything back (aside from combat styles, and the small drips of extra story we've gotten) the rest of the game would be better off as it was prior to 7.0 changes. Sure hammer spam, and TC repeats were boring, but we subbed those out for EV / KP for Op-1s and Nim nef / dash Rakata runs.  I've gotten used to 7.x now with it being out for 2+ years of this, but even now, I would go back to the old ways of doing things without any hesitation at all.  I don't want to sound like a downer but to me the previous version was better in almost every way, and I think most people would agree with that statement too.

[SentinalMasterWW]

3 minutes ago, Setta said:

My honest opinion is if the devs reverted everything back (aside from combat styles, and the small drips of extra story we've gotten) the rest of the game would be better off as it was prior to 7.0 changes. Sure hammer spam, and TC repeats were boring, but we subbed those out for EV / KP for Op-1s and Nim nef / dash Rakata runs.  I've gotten used to 7.x now with it being out for 2+ years of this, but even now, I would go back to the old ways of doing things without any hesitation at all.  I don't want to sound like a downer but to me the previous version was better in almost every way, and I think most people would agree with that statement too.

Exactly, While 6.0 wasn't the greatest, it at least added content rather than taking away which is where 7.0 dropped the ball.