Shae Vizla Launch Updates

[Nommaz]

14 minutes ago, Jarcen said:

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I never really see an issue with what has been said. I never make it a point to transfer, except for that one time when I transferred one character from Satele to Forge. Other than that, all of the characters I have in all servers have been built from the ground up--meaning I started from level 1 all the way to the levels they're in now. For one, transfer costs much. I'm not going to spend money transferring characters. In fact, in essence having to pay to transfer is actually a way of DISCOURAGING transfers--only they're not saying it outright of course. It's them saying, you want to transfer; okay, but it will cost you. SWTOR actually is still quite lenient with transfer. If you ever played any game by Wargaming, you know transfer there is prohibitive--you need to contact customer service to do so and even then the only thing transferred is the account, plus some things such as tanks/ships you have. 

The difference is that we were forced off our servers, given a new server and then they add restrictions. This is not a normal case of transferring

[Nommaz]

Whilst I am less annoyed with the new post, most of my original reply stands. 

I would also like to add that if you make any restrictions they need to be added to all servers no matter the location. 

Because anything less at you are singling out APAC players regardless 

[Jarcen]

1 minute ago, Nommaz said:

The difference is that we were forced off our servers, given a new server and then they add restrictions. This is not a normal case of transferring

That happened to me as well--played in Harbinger until 2016 and went on a hiatus. When I checked in around 2020 or so, I was surprised I was now in Satele. I didn't play much due to RL issues, until this 2023 I decided to go back. Wasn't really feeling it in Satele so I decided to have one character transfer to SF. I came back 2 weeks before SV opened, so it is timely that SV opened at the time I returned, but that's for another discussion. All of us have been affected in some way by the previous servers rework, is my point here. I just shrugged that off and move forward.

[MaximusRex]

36 minutes ago, Darev said:

Clone the server.   Pick a date, set it in stone, clone the server and move it to another brand new server that will be specifically for anyone, across all regions, to use as a "fresh start" server.  AFTER that date, allow transfers and treat SV like every other server.  Credits galore, all items, whatever the APAC players want.

I also think this is the only fair thing to do.  Or just make a new Fresh Start Server and allow SV players a free transfer to it.  

The APAC server shouldn't be some special situation with a bunch of different rules preventing long time players from playing their long timer accounts in their local region with better ping.

Edited December 22, 2023 by MaximusRex

[DanteYoda]

Well this is BS... should have figured they'd stop my stuff from coming, i wont bother transferring now.. And when my sub runs out i'll move on, this is a terrible decision.. I just wanted all my stuff moved to a better ping server.. I honestly don't give a flying ... about some virtual economy that will break no matter what they do because of the cash shop...

[Pandoras_Jar]

Broadly speaking, based on conversations I've had and seen in-game on Shae Vizla and in the Guilds I'm in on Shae Vizla, there are two camps. Players who want to maintain the fresh start experience and those who want to transfer characters from NA. There seems to be consensus in allowing transfers to happen at some point and most are happy with credit/item restrictions.

For me personally, I have surprisingly really enjoyed the fresh start experience. I was not expecting that at all. The game for me the past couple of years has felt super stale with minimal focus on endgame content and stale PvP environment so there's been little reason for me to log in. Now I'm logging in everyday PvPing and levelling my various characters on Shae Vizla and only logging into NA occasionally.

Plus, as someone who has played the game for almost 12 years with only a couple of breaks, I feel conflicted on transferring my characters (some back) to APAC. I've been playing on NA for so long now that I've made connections there and I want to continue playing on NA. So again for me, even when transfers become available, I probably won't be in a rush to transfer any characters. By extension, I really don't feel the need to have all my items and things on all servers (even ones I earned on Dalborra all those years ago). I do however recognise that not everyone is like me and is eager to get to experience low ping on their long established characters.

As for transfer restrictions, I don't think there's a need to go crazy, as Potter said, that would likely cut into development time and I would really like to get some new endgame content soon (not more daily zones and solaoble wb's lmao). Just limiting credits is fine IMO. Players should be able to bring their inventory, gear, achievements and legacy just like a normal server transfer. I would say the credit amount would have to depend on the timing of transfers. So the longer transfers take to happen, the more credits players can bring with them per character (1-10 mill max per is what I'm thinking atm). 

As for how transfers will look in terms of costs, hopefully APAC residing players will be able to get a few free transfers say 12 max? Or alternatively what DWho or emperorruby suggested.

1 hour ago, DWho said:

I think this would overall be fair to other players (free transfers are quite valuable) with one additional restriction. The character transferred had to be created prior to the shutdown of the APAC servers. Additional transfers could be at a reduced rate

Edit: Transfers would be subject to whatever transfer restrictions are decided upon by Broadsword.

1 hour ago, emperorruby said:

how about 16 free character transfers 1 for each combat styles but only if you created prior to SWTOR’s update 5.5 Servers Merges and only to shae vizla server      

I guess the TLDR for me is even though I'm not particularly interested in transferring my characters over to Shae Vizla (even ones created on Dalborra), I don't want to stop other players from transferring theirs over. A credit cap per character is fine. Since I'm enjoying the fresh start experience at the moment, all I have to do is not transfer characters to keep the fresh start experience going for myself.

And finally, as others have mentioned, some costs especially gear repair costs need to be addressed urgently to allow the endgame community to get established ASAP. 

Edit: Also seeing people making assumptions about the outcome that hasn't been finalised yet. Transfers will very likely happen at some point, this is your opportunity to get a say on what that will look like. Chill out.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Pandoras_Jar
ugh

[Nommaz]

11 minutes ago, Jarcen said:

That happened to me as well--played in Harbinger until 2016 and went on a hiatus. When I checked in around 2020 or so, I was surprised I was now in Satele. I didn't play much due to RL issues, until this 2023 I decided to go back. Wasn't really feeling it in Satele so I decided to have one character transfer to SF. I came back 2 weeks before SV opened, so it is timely that SV opened at the time I returned, but that's for another discussion. All of us have been affected in some way by the previous servers rework, is my point here. I just shrugged that off and move forward.

Ah yeah. But some of us put a lot more hours and money in.

 I guess if we had only played briefly it wouldn't bother us either.

 

[Nommaz]

15 minutes ago, Pandoras_Jar said:

Also seeing people making assumptions about the outcome that hasn't been finalised yet. Transfers will very likely happen at some point. Chill out

If the comment wasnt made that it is possible they won't even allow transfers at all. Etc, people wouldn't have to assume that it is a possibility. Which is not really an assumption when it was stated by an employee. 

There is no point waiting until after the decision is made to give concerns because it's to late by then. 

[Pandoras_Jar]

7 minutes ago, Nommaz said:

If the comment wasnt made that it is possible they won't even allow transfers at all. Etc, people wouldn't have to assume that it is a possibility. Which is not really an assumption when it was stated by an employee. 

There is no point waiting until after the decision is made to give concerns because it's to late by then. 

Agreed, you must've missed my edit.   Again, no decision has been finalised so no need to panic yet! Lend your voices to the conversation!

27 minutes ago, Pandoras_Jar said:

Edit: Also seeing people making assumptions about the outcome that hasn't been finalised yet. Transfers will very likely happen at some point, this is your opportunity to get a say on what that will look like. Chill out.

[AFadedMemory]

7 hours ago, Rizenfell said:

My one concern is the settings that have been made to the game to effect a credit-sink may not be as necessary on Shae Vizla (in other words, players on Shae Vizla pay an inflated cost (compared to earnings) for quality of life services such as repairs and quick travel).

I think the credit sinks are fine. They, you know, force credits out of the system pretty effectively.

[Nommaz]

1 hour ago, Pandoras_Jar said:

Agreed, you must've missed my edit.   Again, no decision has been finalised so no need to panic yet! Lend your voices to the conversation!

Oh no I saw it; I am just not sure what you were referring to with assumptions people have made (that are without merit).

You and I were both around when they went down the single player route and effectively killed off raiding for a time, and then again with the forced mergers and transfer to the US realms, and the effect that had on guild and Aussie player base, and that was despite all of our voices, once the decision has been made its already too late, so discussing what they said may happen is far better now than after the fact.

Sure, some of us *cough, got a bit hot under the collar, but with the track record of this company where Aussies are concerned and the appearance of double standards with the new server can you really blame us?

As I said, if they make any changes they need to be made through EVERY server, not just the APAC one. 
Otherwise, it really is singling out a portion of the player base. Yet again.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

Shae wasn't advertised as a 'fresh start' server, it was just supposed to be a new APAC region server.

If you want an actual Fresh Start server then make one. 

Let the APAC players have a normal server, that means one that they can transfer their legacies and multiple years worth of achievements, credits, ect to. 
 

No need to limit the credit transfers, item transfers, or anything else to preserve Shae's economy if you have an actual bonafide Fresh Start server for players who want that.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Nommaz said:

There is no point waiting until after the decision is made to give concerns because it's to late by then. 

100% correct. Waiting till after to express concerns means you aren’t heard. Better to air our concerns & intentions while they are asking. 

[TrixxieTriss]

47 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

I think the credit sinks are fine. They, you know, force credits out of the system pretty effectively.

Except there is no need for such extreme credits sinks on SV because they are actually negatively affecting players choice to be able to raid or do end game content. If a player can’t afford to wipe in a raid, they just won’t do it. 

[Nommaz]

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Except there is no need for such extreme credits sinks on SV because they are actually negatively affecting players choice to be able to raid or do end game content. If a player can’t afford to wipe in a raid, they just won’t do it. 

Not just affecting raiders either, I can see this actually working in the opposite and aiding in the inflation as players try to get maximum credits to combat things like millions required just to get speeder perks, let alone all the other legacy perks, can you play without them? sure but why have that thrust upon you.

The server is being hindered by the heavy handed approach to the issues on other servers without the income, so players have to increase their income, it's not hard to see where that is going to go.

IF they had lowered prices to match the lower credit income then I think they would not have the pressure from some players to transfer their credits over.

The lack of things on the GTN means that when you find something that is low or non-existent you can bump up the price to get more credits in, and don't be fooled people are paying it, so there is money out there.
 

[TrixxieTriss]

17 minutes ago, Nommaz said:

The lack of things on the GTN means that when you find something that is low or non-existent you can bump up the price to get more credits in, and don't be fooled people are paying it, so there is money out there

Which is why those calling for restrictions to move over items in a transfer or make them Legacy bound are wrong in their thinking.

Because it would actually help the server & keep prices down if there are more things for players to choose from.

It’s a simple economic principle that over supply of goods reduces prices & reduces inflationary pressures. While restricting supply of goods puts prices up & increases inflationary pressures.

It’s the same as how over supply of credits increases inflation because the credits lose their value when there are so many in the economy. That’s why limiting the over abundance of credits should be their only concern here. Limiting players items when they transfer is 100% the wrong solution if they are only worried about the economy. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[SoraRaida]

1 hour ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Shae wasn't advertised as a 'fresh start' server, it was just supposed to be a new APAC region server.

If you want an actual Fresh Start server then make one. 

Let the APAC players have a normal server, that means one that they can transfer their legacies and multiple years worth of achievements, credits, ect to. 
 

No need to limit the credit transfers, item transfers, or anything else to preserve Shae's economy if you have an actual bonafide Fresh Start server for players who want that.

I agree with this as someone from APAC. I feel like those from APAC have a higher say in this. It's so frustrating to see 200ms ping on a good day to 2000ms ping (heck, sometimes even higher) on a bad day on Satele Shan, and I can't freaking do anything about it, because it's not a problem from my end.

I don't mind a limit on the credits/items I can transfer as long as I can transfer my toons. I have spent hours on them, and it's not just a measly 1 or 2 toons.

Edited December 22, 2023 by SoraRaida

[DWho]

19 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It’s a simple economic principle that over supply of goods reduces prices & reduces inflationary pressures. While restricting supply of goods puts prices up & increases inflationary pressures.

That works in a real economy where there is a large supply. The GTN is an auction house, not an economy and prices are much more easily controlled at a high level by a few players (there is little to no real competition for most items even on the inflated servers). While it might result in prices lower than the other servers it would most definitely result in prices higher than they are now and people are already complaining they don't have enough credits to play the game much less buy anything from the GTN.

[eabevella]

The communication is good.

I understand the economy concern.

A pure character/legacy transfer with a discounted price compared to transferring to other servers could be a good compromise. It lower the instant huge impact on economy because no credits or tradable items while allowing APAC players to "return" to their regional server combat ready.

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

1 hour ago, AFadedMemory said:

 

Except there is no need for such extreme credits sinks on SV because they are actually negatively affecting players choice to be able to raid or do end game content. If a player can’t afford to wipe in a raid, they just won’t do it.

The inflation on the other servers is a pretty good indicator that the “fresh start” sinks were not enough. 
 

If someone wants to do an op they will find a way to do it. It will mostly mean reduced spending on things they value less then ops.

ops are end game which requires lv 80. You make more money from quest playing a lv 80. You can get enough credits for repair by playing content that doesn’t require end game gear. (I’ve ran a lv 80 toon with damaged armor to get the required funds for a guild ship. Was not really difficult. The hardest part was getting to lv 80)

[Nommaz]

3 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

The inflation on the other servers is a pretty good indicator that the “fresh start” sinks were not enough. 

These others were not new servers and already had a good amount of inflation, so it was a combative measure, here it isn't, because its new, no money in the system,  but it IS a road block to many regardless of what you may think, and to some insurmountable. 
Others like myself have been hoarding credits.. 
But why should we have to choose because a few people think its ok the way it is lol, denying any credit transfer is asinine, if your reasoning is that I am fine so should you be.

[AFadedMemory]

15 minutes ago, Nommaz said:

These others were not new servers and already had a good amount of inflation, so it was a combative measure, here it isn't, because its new, no money in the system,  but it IS a road block to many regardless of what you may think, and to some insurmountable. 
Others like myself have been hoarding credits.. 
But why should we have to choose because a few people think its ok the way it is lol, denying any credit transfer is asinine, if your reasoning is that I am fine so should you be.

Where are these players trying to go? In other word, what are they trying to accomplish that the credit sinks are insurmountable?

I had to choose between getting a guild ship or playing with repaired gear. I chose guild ship. I no longer need a guild ship so I can repair my gear. You don’t need repair gear except for end game content anyway.

does combative credit sinks make it harder to save credits, absolutely. Inflation became a problem because there was more credits being generated then credits leaving the game. In other words people were saving way more credits then spending. The sinks make it harder to save credits fast. Not a bad thing.

Edited December 22, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[Anhkriva]

6 hours ago, Darev said:

Honestly, I wouldn't either.

I do understand the reasoning behind it.  Transferring a ton of stuff you can sell puts you at a large advantage over people starting from scratch and not transferring anything over.

Plus, in theory, you MIGHT have people from 5 servers all transferring their stuff to SV, making it a true and utter cluster.

 

But honestly, that wasn't the (original) point of the server.

 

But it's what we have now.  Two groups of people with vastly different goals and the people in charge stuck in the middle trying to come up with an acceptable compromise.

 

I have it.   it isn't going to be popular.

 

Clone the server.   Pick a date, set it in stone, clone the server and move it to another brand new server that will be specifically for anyone, across all regions, to use as a "fresh start" server.  AFTER that date, allow transfers and treat SV like every other server.  Credits galore, all items, whatever the APAC players want.

Yes, it will mean paying for another server, so it would take time to set that up and get everything signed as far as contracts.

BUT, you'd get all of the current people who have put in 30 days, or more, time into new toons (not to mention paying for character boosts and other CM items) to keep their stuff, AND you'd get a "normal" server for the APAC players that you originally intended.

The new server would have optional legacy unlock only transfers (set that up to include stronghold room unlocks for conquest bonus purposes), no credits / items, and could be used as the use case test bed for long term changes.

 

Just my $.02 after a few weeks of posts have given me time to mull over my original thought/post about this subject.

One question about the proposed server cloning. If all US and EU players who are on SV because they wanted to play on the new server go to such a cloned server, will there be enough APAC players left on SV to justify the existence of the server? There was already a server in this region and didn't it disappear because there were too few players on it or was the reason completely different?

[Nommaz]

1 hour ago, AFadedMemory said:

2 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

Where are these players trying to go? In other word, what are they trying to accomplish that the credit sinks are insurmountable?

I had to choose between getting a guild ship or playing with repaired gear. I chose guild ship. I no longer need a guild ship so I can repair my gear. You don’t need repair gear except for end game content anyway.

does combative credit sinks make it harder to save credits, absolutely. Inflation became a problem because there was more credits being generated then credits leaving the game. In other words people were saving way more credits then spending. The sinks make it harder to save credits fast. Not a bad thing.

The current credit sinks were designed for a system that has so many credits in it already it's not funny and huge inflation, they are applied to a economy that doesn't have credits in it and no inflation and it's choking it. 

Why do you think so many are concerned with getting their credits over, if the server economy was in good order and people earnt enough to play the way they want to without going overboard this would not even have been brought up, but it isn't.

You might like having to choose between repairing your gear and a guild ship but when you have more than enough credits on another server to happily pay for both (which actually takes those credits out of the system btw) why should you HAVE to choose.
Not everyone wants to do that, there is a reason we earned as many as we did.

2 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

Where are these players trying to go? In other word, what are they trying to accomplish that the credit sinks are insurmountable?

I know you have been told the answer to these at least twice from trixxie, are more from others, you just don't want to accept it as an answer because YOU don't see it as a problem, as I said asinine. 
 

[Nommaz]

16 minutes ago, Anhkriva said:

One question about the proposed server cloning. If all US and EU players who are on SV because they wanted to play on the new server go to such a cloned server, will there be enough APAC players left on SV to justify the existence of the server? There was already a server in this region and didn't it disappear because there were too few players on it or was the reason completely different?

There were 3 APAC servers originally, and many times that US and other regions.
Server directory (original) - Star Wars: The Old Republic Wiki (fandom.com).
They were all doing quite well from a players point of view until some decisions were made to multiplayer and other weird things and things took a dive.
They never really recovered from that, and they went from the lists you see there to the handful of servers there is today, at the time of losing our servers there was at peak times at least on my server 4 full maps on fleet, along with similar on starting planets dropping off as the game went on.

But the decision was not one of how many players there were IMO, it was all about the $$ they could save, against how many players they may lose, again that my take on what was a very frustrating point of time in the game and what saw me take a long break from it, take it with a pinch of salt I may have been way off the mark, but it felt true.

You see a lot of "people mostly play for the story now" and that's very true, but it wasn't always, the game had a reasonably active PVP game and raid scene, until Bioware decided to "concentrate more on the story" and failed the MMO part of the game.

Edit: Oh and to answer your question, Yes I believe there would be, there is people just waiting on transfers.
Not everyone wants a fresh start server, and they are playing because of its location. 
There is a very high chance players would play both.
It was marketed as an APAC server, not fresh start, it has just turned into an argument for both.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Nommaz