Shae Vizla Launch Updates

[SoontirMorillo]

8 minutes ago, Nommaz said:

 

You mean the achievements we EARNED!

Let me see if I understand what you just said here, you said that all the people that transfer that have spent years on the game earning achievements are actually insignificant, because the devs want to keep what exactly, what are you even trying to protect here?
There are items we have that are not even available to re-earn, achievements that you can no longer earn etc, and some of those were paid for with real money.
You are singling out a new regional server to have special conditions attached to transfers (if you even allow them) where none have existed before, and where none exist for the rest of the world, and this one has no benefit to it at all besides maybe #$%^&*( off a lot of legacy players. 

Is this an APAC regional server or is it a fresh start server, because the way you are treating APAC players is extremely poor.
First you transferred us off our OCE servers despite an uproar after already merging them, without any limitations I might add, then you spent the next what 10 ish years ignoring us? 

Only to finally open another server in our region, where we could once again  play with a decent ping, the same as the rest of the player base,  but that wasn't good enough, you have to then go and put conditions on that, ie no server transfers, and then to add salt in the wounds you have the nerve to say welcome home, well it's not welcome home at all, our characters that we worked on for years despite being treated poorly are still on other servers, we are not allowed to transfer them, to a server that's supposed to be our regional server, whereas the entire rest of the game is allowed to transfer as they like, with minimal limitations.

You brought me back because of APAC servers, and despite not having transfers available at launch I was willing to play some new characters while I wait for them, but this, this is poor form indeed. I said I was going to unsub and I did, until someone pointed out to me that could be bad for us in the long run if the server wasn't earning, so I re-subbed, but after this I am going to unsub again, whether or not I come back after today will depend entirely on your decisions.
 

Yes you did, that's how it was emailed to us and now you are saying that there is a good chance that's not going to happen, otherwise why even say there is a possibility that you wont.

 

There has been a lot of talk about credits transferring but (I think) I speak for most of us when I say if it was a choice between our credits and not transferring, I'd gladly leave them behind.

Judging on how many characters created, how is that even relevant when WE DONT HAVE A CHOICE!
Achievements should not even come into play as a thing you are trying to protect.

Again, is it a fresh start or a regional server, because no you can't have it both ways, this company has treated APAC players as second-class citizens for long enough.

And a fresh start server will have been far better placed on US and or EU servers where there are more players. 

I am not sure what you were trying to achieve with your post but if annoying us even further was the goal I'd say you succeeded.
To say I am flabbergasted by the poor form of this company on this topic is an understatement.
 

I think, one of the Devs (not dropping any names here) is currently collecting the 20 cartel coins achievements for finishing chapter 3 on all origin stories. There might be the possibility somebody is hunting for Server First Brontes Nightmare Kill... but after that... transfers will open immediately. 

[khamseen_air]

19 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

One point I do want to address upfront, when we initially launched the server, we said we intended to open transfers at a later time. That is still a possibility, but based on the data and sentiment we are seeing around protecting the economy, there now exists possibilities of restricting what is transferred over or not doing transfers at all.

I'm not even an APAC based player but I have been playing on the SV server and enjoying the fresh start experience and playing with the new community gathering on the server.

However, this server was not advertised as a fresh start server and was always expected to get transfers (personally I felt 90 days was fine, I know some others disagreed) so if they now don't allow them at all or don't allow them to transfer achievements and or items/credits from other servers that is a pretty big slap in the face to the APAC community who have been moved around to other servers over the years since the original APAC server closed.
Why should they be forced into abandoning all their achievements (a lot of which are no longer possible to get) and hard earned credits and items just so they can play on a server with decent ping again? I can tell you that after a month of playing with ping ranging from 300-500ms it can be pretty infuriating. 

Also, I think it's high time Strongholds were not tied to legacy but to account. On any current or future server I have no intention of paying around 100 million credits to re-unlock all the SHs I have access to on one server. 

If you want to do a fresh start server, great, do that. But you have to do it as that up front, no "we plan to open transfers at a later date" then pulling the rug out after a month. Create a new server, advertise it as a fresh start and let people decide if they want that or not before they commit their time and effort into the server only to find they'll never be able to bring their stuff over to it. 

If you do decide to create a fresh start server you also really need to find a way to scale back a lot of the inflation changes made to the other live servers. These measures are currently actively hampering the SV server pretty drastically.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Nommaz said:

There has been a lot of talk about credits transferring but (I think) I speak for most of us when I say if it was a choice between our credits and not transferring, I'd gladly leave them behind

💯 % this 👆

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

I think, one of the Devs (not dropping any names here) is currently collecting the 20 cartel coins achievements for finishing chapter 3 on all origin stories. There might be the possibility somebody is hunting for Server First Brontes Nightmare Kill... but after that... transfers will open immediately. 

The 20 cartel coins achievement does not prevent any other player from transferring. It only affects that player if they personally decide to transfer. And nobody would be making them do that. 

[Rizenfell]

22 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Hi everyone, 

Wanted to chime in and give you all an update on where we stand with character transfers to the Shae Vizla server. 

• One of our top priorities is keeping the economy on the Shae Vizla server stable.

[...]

There is a lot we are learning about the economy and introducing millions or billions of credits will negate our ability to make any refinements.
 

I absolutely agree with the thrust of this. I am enjoying a simpler and less strained economy.

My one concern is the settings that have been made to the game to effect a credit-sink may not be as necessary on Shae Vizla (in other words, players on Shae Vizla pay an inflated cost (compared to earnings) for quality of life services such as repairs and quick travel).

22 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

[...] there now exists possibilities of restricting what is transferred over or not doing transfers at all.

Achievements are a major aspect of our game and once transferred, a player’s entire Legacy is also moved, rendering many Achievements to already be accomplished. We are considering limiting or completely restricting the transfer of credits and/or item stacks. This will help address the significant concern about the economy, but it doesn't address Achievements, so we are discussing compromises.  

Regarding limiting or restricting credits and item stacks, I agree in principle. Allowing credits to come across would immediately bias the economy and market badly.

I do feel for the very high cost others are mentioning for repair costs of high-end operations/endgame, but that does not impact me.

Regarding achievements being transferred: I am torn. On the one hand I enjoy the fresh start, but on the other, some achievements are ultimately painful grinds I don't have the time or patience to do once more.

Stronghold unlocks are another matter. That's a lot of Cartel Coins or credits to spend once more; and I feel they should be tied to my account (like collections), not to my legacy. Ship unlocks were also nice but I can live without.

So far I have spent Cartel Coins on Improved Mounting and Rocket Boost. Luckily there can be bought with CC at a low legacy level, and I (personally) consider them essential for a good playing experience. So I do not mind having spent the Cartel Coins on these knowing that at some point down the track that expense was unwarranted when my legacy transfers (as it was expected to be before this discussion!).

Basically, I hope that everything in Legacy > Global Unlocks > Other comes with whatever a Legacy Transfer ends up looking like and doesn't need to be repurchased.

In summary there is absolutely no need to allow credits or inventory/items to transfer, for sure.

  

19 hours ago, ausmisc said:

I feel for the server's population health you definately need a way to entice APAC players to transfer back from the US servers, without making it so that fresh players suddenly feel a major disadvantage.

Agree with this wholeheartedly!

12 hours ago, Pandoras_Jar said:

Honestly, the only thing I'm missing on Shae Vizla are my deco's especially ones I've bought off the CM.

This, so much this! I want my decorations which represent so much time and effort, that suddenly becomes a grey chore to collect them again, even if I can. This tainting what was a fun challenge into pointless grinding. But it's not a deal breaker, as I can go other directions. Just a very high want.

[KeithKanneg]

Hello again, 

Gonna make this one follow up post for now as the team is getting ready to break for the upcoming holiday. 

I wanted to hop into this thread to generate conversation about what players (particularly those who are in the APAC region) want when it comes to character transfers for the Shae Vizla server. 

I want us to have a respectful conversation and/or friendly discourse about what's best for our players in the APAC region, and of course, for our game. Our ultimate goal is to have a healthy server that also provides the best home for our APAC players. 

We opened an APAC server to create a better overall experience for the regional players and grow the number of players in that region. We also had the unique opportunity to improve the economy by delaying and possibly restricting the amount of credits that flowed into the server. That is giving us very insightful details about what defines a healthy economy.

We also understand about Legacy (and character) transfers and wanting to leverage what you've already completed over the years.

As a reminder, we will be making a decision based on the data we see and the player feedback we receive. So far, here's what I'm reading in terms of player feedback specifically from this thread:

• Players want character transfers allowed to/from Shae Vizla (which means your Legacy is also transferred)
• You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills
• Players want a reasonable time/cost to do transfers
• Players want this server treated the same as all other servers

If I missed something, just reply with other key points and we'll make sure to review those with the team in the new year.

Thanks all
 

[SoontirMorillo]

10 minutes ago, KeithKanneg said:

 

• Players want character transfers allowed to/from Shae Vizla (which means your Legacy is also transferred)
• You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills
• Players want a reasonable time/cost to do transfers
• Players want this server treated the same as all other servers

 

Typical player feedback. Giving mixed signals. Point 4 is basically the opposite from 2 and 3.

Edited December 21, 2023 by SoontirMorillo

[TheFiveOhFirst]

You simply cannot allow credits to transfer into the server; period, full stop.

That will break anything you want to do with the economy. At which point there was never a reason to prevent transfers. You can't go full inventory-less transfer either -- because there are multiple gear sets, tactical, etc.

However, you can't NOT filter inventory either -- All those credit tokens from conquest rewards, daily login rewards, etc. While it won't hurt the economy as much as someone transferring in 100b credits.... it definitely will artificially inflate things.

Even on some established servers, the credit sinks are (IMO anyway) too much now. All of the taxes, non-refundable GTN fees, etc. are going to eventually be extremely negative -- we've already seen orders of magnitude in terms of price drops. These things are punishing to established economies and players; my understanding it has basically completely killed the high-end trade market -- things don't move or change hands anymore.... it is ruinous on a clean economy.

ALL of that said, people just want their achievements, legendary status, and perks they've EARNED from playing hundreds of hours of a game we all love.

You have a massive challenge on your hands... I do not envy you... that is for sure... but I tell you, if you allow credits to move, you better reverse almost all of the taxes and credit sinks everywhere and let things settle on their own. While intervention was necessary it has been (again, IMO) too heavy handed and once credits leave existing servers that is going to dramatically reduce the currency in circulation even more.

[Rizenfell]

24 minutes ago, KeithKanneg said:

You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills

And there seems to be decent support for Item Stack/Inventory restrictions (which can also unbalance the server economy, of course).

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, KeithKanneg said:

If I missed something, just reply with other key points and we'll make sure to review those with the team in the new year

Keith, you forgot one thing. Please make sure we can bring ALL of our stuff when we transfer.

I’m fine with restricting credits to a point  (we should be able to bring some). 

But I want to be able to move my whole collection of Cartel Dyes that I’ve been collecting for years for my Wife & Family & self. And all my gear, rewards & other things I’ve been waiting for the right time & character to use them on. Things like login & galactic seasons rewards, unbound Cartel Market gear, mounts, crystals & crafting materials. 

Basically, I want to transfer everything I have on the US servers. I’d be happy myself with only 50-100 million credits (of my Billion’s currently on the US servers).

But any restrictions on moving ALL my other stuff is a deal breaker for me & many other APAC players who’ve paid in real money or time to acquire things. 

I would also suggest you run another email campaign to old & new geolocated APAC players when you open transfers. That promotes “x” number of Free transfers per account (maybe 10?) & then heavily discounted transfers for 12 months. Because some of us have 50-100 Alts stranded on the US servers. Of which we already paid real money to open those server slots. 

On top of the above “free” transfers for APAC players, maybe offer 1 free server transfer for each month players stay subscribed for every player in the game. 

And run some discounted subscription bundles for “new” or “returning” players as an incentive to subscribe. And PLEASE, please promote this through actual APAC gaming media. Even if you need to personally give some of those journalists or reviewers some free subscriptions & Cartel Coins to personally use. Getting them to promote the game in our region would certainly help grow your business. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[MaximusRex]

Glad I'm not APAC.  Imagine being a faithful customer for years and they finally reopen a server in your region and you can't even move your decade+ old characters, legacy, and stuff to it to protect a fake economy a little longer while the rest of the servers are left with their broken economies.

[matthaxian]

Thanks for the update, appreciate the candor and the transparency.

 

I started playing shortly after ROTHC came out. 

I remember what that economy was like, I bought pretty much every account unlock via the GTN .

I also remember how hard it was to make money, how much I had to gather and craft and babysit my auctions., how guildies running dailies together to earn credits was an actual thing. 

 

I vehemently encourage you to eliminate the ability to transfer credits to/from Shae Vizla.

I would also suggest that any transfer binds any bind-on equip and bind-to legacy on equip items in inventory and cargo hold.

That should stop people from flooding the market with items, both cartel and crafted, not generated on Shae Vizla, with the possible exception of crafting materials and jawa scrap which would also have to be addressed. 

However, there are a few things that need to be fixed in regards to cost that are creating barriers to entry in both crafting and running PVE content. 

Vendor costs on Shae Vizla still reflect the economies of the other servers where you can offset those costs by selling stuff you gather through regular gameplay like crafting and augment mats to other players at rates that are 10-100X what Shae Vizla can generate. 

I don't want to spend an absurd amount of time grinding dailies just to be able to afford to level characters, crafting, or my gear.

It's really hard to do anything crafting without at least 3 level 50 companions.

For example, 250k x 3 crafting skills to unlock past level 600 is prohibitive.

Companion gift prices are set for when Influence (once approval) only went to 10k and not 250k.

5 million in gift costs is fine on the other servers, it's a week of doing nothing but dailies on Shae Vizla. 

The older (1.2) legacy unlocks are costly but ok.   Class XP 1-5, Exploration XP,  the influence ones.

But the unlocks added later are cost prohititive.  1.2 million for the gift speed boosts.

1.8 million for speeder piloting 5. 

These are things I used to put on every toon I started.

Forget about even thinking about mobile cargo/legacy holds. 

These things are per-character and not things I can fix by transferring my legacy. 

 

Then there are the PVE barriers.

1 million for a single tactical.

2.7 million just for a set of blue hyde and zeek mods. 

Repair costs which are fine on other servers  you might have to quit or disband your group on Shae Vizla. 

 

I realize you can't make things different on the client side in regards to the servers, but you should be able to tweak some things server side to help us out. 

So my suggestion is to reduce the vendor prices by 90% on a few select things that see regular use.

Tacticals

Companion Gifts (they bind to legacy now anyway so no need to worry about server shenanigans)

Crafting Vendor unlock costs

Hyde and Zeek

 

Also a vendor who sells bind to character unlocks at a reduced cost for the legacy perks that were added 3.0 and later would be greatly appreciated. 

 

All the cartel market items I see on the GTN are selling for 1-5% of their price on the other servers, but all I really see is stuff people have opened via their galactic seasons boxes.  I think people are hesitant and nervous about what the server transfers will do to the economy.  But grinding a little to pick up some of the spendier cartel items has been great..

 

As for legacies tranferring, my unlocks (especially rocket boost) are an absolute must.

Datacrons would be extremely appreciated, as would 330/334/340 implants achievements.

My general achievements, I don't care so much. 

Would actually help to farm all those small 20cc achievements again.

 

So to summarize:

1.  Make transfers available at reduced cost

2.  Elminate ability to transfer credits

3.  Bind or bind to legacy (if possible) any items you transfer with you

4.  Reduce Shae Vizla vendor costs 90% server side on companion gifts, crafting schematics, repairs, and tacticals

5.  Find a way to reduce cost on per-character legacy unlocks added post 2014

6.  Don't touch my rocket boost

7.  Profit

Edited December 21, 2023 by matthaxian

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Rizenfell said:

And there seems to be decent support for Item Stack/Inventory restrictions (which can also unbalance the server economy, of course

I’ve seen a handful of people say this. But I don’t support these suggested restrictions & neither do my family, friends or guild mates. So you don’t speak for us. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[matthaxian]

Also, i've noticed something maybe not intended with the GTN update.

I really really strongly disapprove of being forced to buy the lowest price.

 

But it used to be, you had to undercut by a certain amount and not 1 credit to avoid that guy who is going to buy the even number or above a small undercut on principle to reward a "good" seller and punish an undercutter ( I am that guy). 

Now you don't have to worry about that.  1 credit undercut?  no problem.  Buyer has no choice. 

As people figure this out it's really going to work against your intention of lowering prices because of your decision to take a market force (choice) completely out of play. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by matthaxian

[TrixxieTriss]

4 minutes ago, matthaxian said:

I would also suggest that any transfer binds any bind-on equip and bind-to legacy on equip items in inventory and cargo hold

I also vehemently disagree with this. That is 100% another deal breaker for me because I’m a guild leader for my family & friends. I’ve been collecting CM dyes, crystals, mounts, weapon’s & decorations for us to use over the years. Making them legacy bound to me personally, means I cannot share them with my guild, family & friends. 

Ive hundreds & hundred of dollars worth of items like this that fill up 2 full guild banks as well as many character cargo holds. I don’t sell these on the GTN. I give them free to my guild, wife, sister, brother & friends for free. If these are made legacy bound, I’ve effectively flush money down the toilet. 

[DWho]

While not specific to the APAC server, the transfer of credits and items between servers needs to be looked at carefully. Whatever decision is made for transfers to Shae Viszla should also apply to other server transfers to keep items and credits from moving freely between servers. There is nothing wrong with CM items claimed from Collections, but these should all be blocked from transferring though as they represent a significant incentive to "cheat" the system to gain the credits needed to buy them.

Secondly, some form of inter-server transfer of items without transferring characters should also be looked at so that players can transfer items they craft or buy from one server to another without them being able to be sold on the GTN (for use within their legacies). Only items crafted on the server should be saleable on the server (gifting is a separate issue). Perhaps limiting to a certain number of items per month. That way you have potential access to all your items from anywhere in your account.

Thirdly is gifting. There should be some limited ability to gift items between accounts of items that are "bound to legacy". Perhaps you could have a certain number of associated legacies (or super-legacies) where items can be traded as if they were your legacy.

All in all, character transfers need to be revamped.

[NeoBlakkrstal]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:35 PM, KeithKanneg said:

Hi everyone, 

Wanted to chime in and give you all an update on where we stand with character transfers to the Shae Vizla server. 

• One of our top priorities is keeping the economy on the Shae Vizla server stable.
• We are still evaluating Shae Vizla player populations and activity to determine the best timeframe to open transfers to/from the server. We're reviewing a variety of data points, including (but not limited to), credits obtained, characters created, current character levels, Achievements, and more.  

There is a lot we are learning about the economy and introducing millions or billions of credits will negate our ability to make any refinements. I want to let you all know about some of the topics we are discussing behind the scenes. 

One point I do want to address upfront, when we initially launched the server, we said we intended to open transfers at a later time. That is still a possibility, but based on the data and sentiment we are seeing around protecting the economy, there now exists possibilities of restricting what is transferred over or not doing transfers at all.

Achievements are a major aspect of our game and once transferred, a player’s entire Legacy is also moved, rendering many Achievements to already be accomplished. We are considering limiting or completely restricting the transfer of credits and/or item stacks. This will help address the significant concern about the economy, but it doesn't address Achievements, so we are discussing compromises.  

Again, we are still evaluating everything and when we are ready to make a call, we will be communicating that ahead of time before anything is implemented. We'll also be taking player feedback into consideration regarding how transfers are done. 

What we are going to do now is continue to monitor the behaviors we see on the Shae Vizla server over the holiday break. When we come back, we’ll continue our discussions around character transfers and communicate with players about our intentions before we make a final decision.

Thanks all and happy holidays!
 

Guess I won't be playing on SV. I have spent way too much money, and time, raising my Legacy, and earning my stuff to just leave it all and start over. Instead, if I spend any CC's at all, it won't be on character transfers.

[SoontirMorillo]

I love the right hand side of this website. It gives useful information.

Thread created Nov 16.

Replies 91.

Top Posters TT 28 posts, AFM 13 posts, DevOne 5 posts, DevTwo 3 posts,...

... meaning that more than half of this discussion is carried by 2 players and 2 Devs.

What exactly will Broadsword take from this? Is this representative? Or is this the usual vocal minority on the forums getting heard? I doubt Shae Vizla consists of 2 players and 2 Devs.

I really hope for all players, that Broadsword is able to put this here into perspective.

Edited December 21, 2023 by SoontirMorillo

[ThanderSnB]

3 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Hello again, 

Gonna make this one follow up post for now as the team is getting ready to break for the upcoming holiday. 

I wanted to hop into this thread to generate conversation about what players (particularly those who are in the APAC region) want when it comes to character transfers for the Shae Vizla server. 

I want us to have a respectful conversation and/or friendly discourse about what's best for our players in the APAC region, and of course, for our game. Our ultimate goal is to have a healthy server that also provides the best home for our APAC players. 

We opened an APAC server to create a better overall experience for the regional players and grow the number of players in that region. We also had the unique opportunity to improve the economy by delaying and possibly restricting the amount of credits that flowed into the server. That is giving us very insightful details about what defines a healthy economy.

We also understand about Legacy (and character) transfers and wanting to leverage what you've already completed over the years.

As a reminder, we will be making a decision based on the data we see and the player feedback we receive. So far, here's what I'm reading in terms of player feedback specifically from this thread:

• Players want character transfers allowed to/from Shae Vizla (which means your Legacy is also transferred)
• You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills
• Players want a reasonable time/cost to do transfers
• Players want this server treated the same as all other servers

If I missed something, just reply with other key points and we'll make sure to review those with the team in the new year.

Thanks all
 

The majority of APAC players want all the characters and progress on Satele Shan combined with the low ping of Shae Vizla. With that in mind, these are best and worst case scenarios for transfers for APAC players.

• Best Case - APAC players receive free character transfers to Shae Vizla. They can choose to transfer all their Satele Shan characters to Shae Vizla OR pick a subset of characters to transfer to Shae Vizla with the rest staying on Satele Shan.
• Acceptable - APAC players can pay a lump sum fee like $50 to transfer as many characters as they want, whether all of them or just a subset, as above.
• Bad - APAC players have to pay for each individual character transfer but get some kind of discount like 50% or 75% off. Even with a discount, it's going to cost way too much to transfer 20, 30, 40+ characters.
• Worst Case - APAC players have to pay the normal character transfer fee for each individual character. They are forced to re-level most of their characters just because it's not affordable to move more than 3-5.

To preserve the economy, these transfers should have a credit cap of 1 million credits per character. That way if someone transfers 100 characters, the maximum they could have is 100 million credits. It will cause some initial inflation but not enough to break the economy. Most players won't transfer that many characters anyways.

Also, any gray items on a transferred character should be destroyed to prevent getting around the credit cap with 25k credit tokens from conquest rewards. There are a surprising number of players that have saved these credit tokens for years. They could easily bring over millions of additional credits just by vendoring these credit tokens on the new server.

As far as non-APAC players, it's fine if they have to pay full price for character transfers, but APAC players should get a special deal. After all, they didn't choose to transfer to Satele Shan. That was forced by Bioware. To undo that requires free transfers back to the APAC server.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ThanderSnB

[Kookabura]

Hello Dev Team and other APAC Players.

My Name is Potter, I lead Tauntaun War Veterans on Satele Shan and now on Shae Vizla.

When the new server was announced, there was a lot of novelty. The prospect of starting all over again from zero was an intriguing idea, also being able to have character names without alt codes has been amazing, so thanks for that too. Tauntaun War Veterans is a raiding guild, and to that end, I've spent many years forming a community around that. So naturally, the first thing many of us started doing was focusing on getting our characters ready to do what we loved to do – NiM/Master mode Raiding. The novelty of a new server quickly wore off.

The question at the heart of this is not about allowing transfers, protecting the economy or a combination of different factors, because we are going to play this game regardless. There is a love of this game, that us APAC gamers have that is different to the other regions Maybe it’s because we've been hopped from server to server, from West Coast NA Ping to Aussie Ping, back to West Coast and finally where we are now East Coast Ping. Whether they have 4 ping on Shae Vizla like me because I am the servers, or 200 ping to Satele Shan on a good day, we continue to play the game.

3 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

• Players want character transfers allowed to/from Shae Vizla (which means your Legacy is also transferred)
• You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills
• Players want a reasonable time/cost to do transfers
• Players want this server treated the same as all other servers

As noted by Keith above, these 4 points seem to be the most prevalent. Now let’s say these changes happen, we can transfer our toons across, with credit restrictions. At what point do the restrictions lift? Will Shae Vizla forever be a protected server? What is the point in that? Not to mention, people will just transfer multiple toons with the credit cap limit. If I want to transfer 1 billion worth of credits, and I have to do that over 8 toons as an example, then I'll transfer 8 toons across, or I can just give credits to my guild members to transfer over. Either way, it doesn't matter if there’s a cap/restriction on credit transfers.

So, the question comes back, is it even worth it, all this headache over transfers to just to play with good ping? The answer is still No. Why you may ask?

1. No Transfers at all- I've already spent time, energy and money creating a legacy on different server, and I do not have that same time, energy, or money to do it again on Shae Vizla and frankly, it’s been 10 years of bad ping, I don’t care about the ping anymore.

2. Restricted Transfers - I've just created dev work on something that in the long run means nothing as stated above. If I had a choice right now to decide between Shae Vizla vs a story update, new content, new operations, flashpoints, uprisings, gsf, pvp, heroics, I would always pick new content.

To ensure the success of the Shae Visla server, attracting players is paramount. Players are unlikely to engage with a server that fails to recognize and respect the time, effort, and financial investments they have already dedicated to the game. Implementing different transfer restrictions is an inefficient allocation of developer resources. Shae Vizla should stand out solely due to its location; anything less will serve as a deterrent for potential players.

Thanks,
Potter
GM of Tauntaun War Veterans

Edited December 21, 2023 by Kookabura

[DWho]

24 minutes ago, ThanderSnB said:

Best Case - APAC players receive free character transfers to Shae Vizla. They can choose to transfer all their Satele Shan characters to Shae Vizla OR pick a subset of characters to transfer to Shae Vizla with the rest staying on Satele Shan.

I think this would overall be fair to other players (free transfers are quite valuable) with one additional restriction. The character transferred had to be created prior to the shutdown of the APAC servers. Additional transfers could be at a reduced rate

Edit: Transfers would be subject to whatever transfer restrictions are decided upon by Broadsword.

Edited December 22, 2023 by DWho

[emperorruby]

20 minutes ago, ThanderSnB said:

The majority of APAC players want all the characters and progress on Satele Shan combined with the low ping of Shae Vizla. With that in mind, these are best and worst case scenarios for transfers for APAC players.

• Best Case - APAC players receive free character transfers to Shae Vizla. They can choose to transfer all their Satele Shan characters to Shae Vizla OR pick a subset of characters to transfer to Shae Vizla with the rest staying on Satele Shan.
• Acceptable - APAC players can pay a lump sum fee like $50 to transfer as many characters as they want, whether all of them or just a subset, as above.
• Bad - APAC players have to pay for each individual character transfer but get some kind of discount like 50% or 75% off. Even with a discount, it's going to cost way too much to transfer 20, 30, 40+ characters.
• Worst Case - APAC players have to pay the normal character transfer fee for each individual character. They are forced to re-level most of their characters just because it's not affordable to move more than 3-5.

To preserve the economy, these transfers should have a credit cap of 1 million credits per character. That way if someone transfers 100 characters, the maximum they could have is 100 million credits. It will cause some initial inflation but not enough to break the economy. Most players won't transfer that many characters anyways.

Also, any gray items on a transferred character should be destroyed to prevent getting around the credit cap with 25k credit tokens from conquest rewards. There are a surprising number of players that have saved these credit tokens for years. They could easily bring over millions of additional credits just by vendoring these credit tokens on the new server.

As far as non-APAC players, it's fine if they have to pay full price for character transfers, but APAC players should get a special deal. After all, they didn't choose to transfer to Satele Shan. That was forced by Bioware. To undo that requires free transfers back to the APAC server.

how about 16 free character transfers 1 for each combat styles but only if you created prior to SWTOR’s update 5.5 Servers Merges and only to shae vizla server      

[AFadedMemory]

+ 1 for credit limit. I would suggest making changes outside the transfer system such as how escrow works and how many credits a person has on their person. This will limit the damage done to the value the character transfers has for other servers, and possibly increase their sales.

-1 to achievements not crossing over. I acknowledge the Benefits to having achievements stay behind, especially when it comes to the ones that require more than one person to accomplish. I believe it would hurt more then benefit though. I suggest instead making them repeatable. You can have it so transfer count towards unlocking an achievement the first time but not the second time. The second time should offer similar rewards to the ones currently offered, and reward should be add to the ones that don’t.  The new rewards could be event currency that can also be bought with credits, making another credit sink (I would recommend 1 million credits as the minimum for 1). The items the currency is exchange for could be QoL decoration items like a heroics mission terminal or daily area/event vendors. (These items should be Donate able to guild when dropped  in bank, but not donate with credit purchases. They should not be sellable on the GTN) once again this would potentially increase the value of character transfer rather then decreasing it. Alternatively you can add new achievements that require people to accomplish a cluster of “old” achievement tasks and those rewards would be QoL decorations

0 to items. I know there is a need to address this. I just don’t do end game content enough to care. I would recommend not limit decoration stacks, event armor or cartel market items. These items won’t break the economy they just move the credits that already exists. (Except for bound items) one could argue that it would help sink away credit on the anther servers as people prep to transfer. It might also increase Cartel Market sales. (Having a cool sale before transfer might be a good ideal)

I acknowledge I don’t see the goals and data you have, but I do think caution is needed when making transfer limits. Overall I think y’all are headed in the right direction. Cheers and have a great holiday break.

Edited December 22, 2023 by AFadedMemory

[Darev]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’ve seen a handful of people say this. But I don’t support these suggested restrictions & neither do my family, friends or guild mates. So you don’t speak for us. 

Honestly, I wouldn't either.

I do understand the reasoning behind it.  Transferring a ton of stuff you can sell puts you at a large advantage over people starting from scratch and not transferring anything over.

Plus, in theory, you MIGHT have people from 5 servers all transferring their stuff to SV, making it a true and utter cluster.

 

But honestly, that wasn't the (original) point of the server.

 

But it's what we have now.  Two groups of people with vastly different goals and the people in charge stuck in the middle trying to come up with an acceptable compromise.

 

I have it.   it isn't going to be popular.

 

Clone the server.   Pick a date, set it in stone, clone the server and move it to another brand new server that will be specifically for anyone, across all regions, to use as a "fresh start" server.  AFTER that date, allow transfers and treat SV like every other server.  Credits galore, all items, whatever the APAC players want.

Yes, it will mean paying for another server, so it would take time to set that up and get everything signed as far as contracts.

BUT, you'd get all of the current people who have put in 30 days, or more, time into new toons (not to mention paying for character boosts and other CM items) to keep their stuff, AND you'd get a "normal" server for the APAC players that you originally intended.

The new server would have optional legacy unlock only transfers (set that up to include stronghold room unlocks for conquest bonus purposes), no credits / items, and could be used as the use case test bed for long term changes.

 

Just my $.02 after a few weeks of posts have given me time to mull over my original thought/post about this subject.

[ThatRonin]

4 hours ago, KeithKanneg said:

Hello again, 

Gonna make this one follow up post for now as the team is getting ready to break for the upcoming holiday. 

I wanted to hop into this thread to generate conversation about what players (particularly those who are in the APAC region) want when it comes to character transfers for the Shae Vizla server. 

I want us to have a respectful conversation and/or friendly discourse about what's best for our players in the APAC region, and of course, for our game. Our ultimate goal is to have a healthy server that also provides the best home for our APAC players. 

We opened an APAC server to create a better overall experience for the regional players and grow the number of players in that region. We also had the unique opportunity to improve the economy by delaying and possibly restricting the amount of credits that flowed into the server. That is giving us very insightful details about what defines a healthy economy.

We also understand about Legacy (and character) transfers and wanting to leverage what you've already completed over the years.

As a reminder, we will be making a decision based on the data we see and the player feedback we receive. So far, here's what I'm reading in terms of player feedback specifically from this thread:

• Players want character transfers allowed to/from Shae Vizla (which means your Legacy is also transferred)
• You support credit restrictions, but want us to consider credit costs such as repair bills
• Players want a reasonable time/cost to do transfers
• Players want this server treated the same as all other servers

If I missed something, just reply with other key points and we'll make sure to review those with the team in the new year.

Thanks all
 

If preserving an economy, that in the long run does not matter because lets face reality here: its going to eventually be ruined at some point, matters this much rather than transferring toons allow us to clone legacies to SV or even to other servers and do away with a system that in all honesty is unwanted for how it works. My biggest issue with SV is that I'm currently legacy 3. Being legacy 3 sucks and is awful, especially as someone who's been playing for over 10 years. Cloning legacies is the best way to open up all of the QoL options that the legacy system offers and preserves SV's economy. Make it 500 CC and call it a day. This allows the players that truly want to start from scratch and stick to scratch to do so and allows players like myself to skip probably the worst grind in this game and stick to the vow of never doing legacy again. There's no influx of items or credits, just does away with a terrible system to let players have decent QoL. 

However, the true APAC players deserve bringing their toons to SV. Its their server, the vast majority of them have been playing just as long as I have, if not longer. And they too have had to deal with the economy problems from the other servers, since they've had to play on those servers. There's no good answer here when you're trying to save an economy, that will eventually blow up in some fashion whether its in a year or five. Instead of trying to prevent it or contain it, let it blow up now with normal transfers and cater to players that have been loyal to this game for over a decade. A lot of the economy changes made this year are rather punishing and have been effective, some would say too effective. And if adjustments need to be made to the economy, make adjustments. 

And it does seem the general consensus is that there should be a limit to credit transfers. And I agree. Wholeheartedly do. Set it to 50-100 million credits max, that lets players be able to unlock their legacy QoL options comfortably and have some cash on hand for whatever else and be able to fund doing things like crew skills or guilds and guild activities. And do make it so that its an account 50-100 million credit limit. Per toon transfer is abusable by whales that would happily send toon after toon with banks loaded with 50-100 million credits and skirting around the limit. 

As for items and item stacks, I couldn't care less. Only thing I could say is prohibit currency stack transfers. No saved credit stacks, no bags of tech frags. 

Either way, the one thing that shouldn't happen, is nothing.