Have You seen the combat changes in the patch notes? The sorcerer part....

[Samcuu]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:37 PM, Faltun said:

Whats the point of comments like this? Like i said i already checked. i already wrote my experiences. There is no choices they want to force. Simply now madness has 30% + dmg reduction cosntantly up, 10 sec cd on force sprint which last 2,5 seconds, force leech cast on the move and a new tool lower CD on stun which reduce dmg output on the target for 10 sec by 25%. 

Okay thanks for the sarcastic reply. I feel like your posting is completely reactionary and thanks for giving us all that anectodatal evidence which is totally proof lol. Anyways now that I've looked closer into it, the changes are actually going to result in a damage nerf for the class thanks to plague master damage type being changed. The damage can now be shielded and effected by armor. So they've lost dmg. They are already tanky and quite mobile so I don't see you telling us anything we didn't already know about the class. 

[krackcommando]

5 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

They are already tanky and quite mobile so I don't see you telling us anything we didn't already know about the class. 

doesn't the patch make them, already mobile, more mobile at a time where everyone (and I do mean everyone) has seen their mobility nerfed (7.0)?

Edited September 8, 2023 by krackcommando

[Samcuu]

21 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

doesn't the patch make them, already mobile, more mobile at a time where everyone (and I do mean everyone) has seen their mobility nerfed (7.0)?

Sounds like it did a bit. Their dmg has never been s tier tho and they are getting nerfed more on the dmg side. So let's see who continues to play the class maybe a lot of noobs will still play it because it's tanky with good utility but I could care less if the dmg isn't there. Ling already out parsing madness now on the pve side with these changes. Meta could swap, time will tell. 

[DougTheNoob]

Basically they want us all to play madness sorc. Sorc wars the old republic.

 

[TheVoyant]

On 9/8/2023 at 7:25 AM, sithBracer said:

Hatred sin is asking "what are you smoking? May I have some please?".

Oh wait, nvm, he just died because a jugg looked at him. Carry on.

Hatred Sin is literally the highest DPS atm (35k+) in the game & excels at burst kills.

What are they smoking indeed.

[sithBracer]

22 hours ago, TheVoyant said:

Hatred Sin is literally the highest DPS atm (35k+) in the game & excels at burst kills.

What are they smoking indeed.

 

Not sure what's worse. The fact that you take dummy parses seriously, the fact that you actually talk about dummy parses on a PvP forum, or that you think hatred is a burst spec.

Clearly you know nothing about hatred, you know even less about PvP, so I recommend going back to VT flashpoints.

Edited September 10, 2023 by sithBracer

[meddani]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

 

Not sure what's worse. The fact that you take dummy parses seriously, the fact that you actually talk about dummy parses on a PvP forum

been here since launch and you'd be surprised how often people do this lol

[TheVoyant]

6 hours ago, sithBracer said:

 

Not sure what's worse. The fact that you take dummy parses seriously, the fact that you actually talk about dummy parses on a PvP forum, or that you think hatred is a burst spec.

Clearly you know nothing about hatred, you know even less about PvP, so I recommend going back to VT flashpoints.

Utilizing the standard metric to measure DPS to compare, legitimately when discussing it there's no other form used in any conversation anywhere. It should be discussed with what's actually happening, but lets be honest you have people who think 10mil damage in a warzone is the goal versus learning how to effectively kill a target with as little wasted resources as possible. 

Second I base it off boss fights primarily single targets as I agree dummy parses are wholeheartedly inaccurate.

Thats a lot of assumptions you're making based off a reply simply meant to match your own original comment & reflect your way of speaking back to you.

Sounds to me like you guys are just looking at too many guide sites vs. spending time learning the class. A good hatred sin can kill a target in a blink of an eye. 

My guess is if you're having this issue you've a crappy stat build based off bad data. I see the majority of people running around with mastery in the 16/15ks still in PvP and running the 7.5% alacrity all of which add up to being far less effective. 

Chances are you're sitting at 2k less in Mastery & slower with Alac which on DoT specs makes a gigantic difference. 

If you follow the Meta in this game you will get owned because they've been wrong for years.

[Beyrahl]

Depending on how you play hatred/serenity at the moment damage is far from the issue. Though I don't think anyone would bother saying otherwise. 

 

26 minutes ago, TheVoyant said:

My guess is if you're having this issue you've a crappy stat build based off bad data. I see the majority of people running around with mastery in the 16/15ks still in PvP and running the 7.5% alacrity all of which add up to being far less effective. 

Chances are you're sitting at 2k less in Mastery & slower with Alac which on DoT specs makes a gigantic difference. 

If you follow the Meta in this game you will get owned because they've been wrong for years.

Completely lose me here.

I may not play it the PvE meta way, but I most certainly follow the generic alacrity/crit dr 5% acc build for someone who doesn't one-trick it's not often they'll tweak their gear too often and there's a reason generic builds do well. Because the difference between fine-tuned and not is very small, most aren't at that level where they can even take advantage of such.

 

On 9/9/2023 at 5:45 PM, TheVoyant said:

excels at burst kills.

 

7 hours ago, sithBracer said:

think hatred is a burst spec.

You know that's not what he's saying, though it truly only excels at AoE.

Anyway, it definitely has "burst" but it is a dot spec. The most unique thing they did to hatred/serenity in PvP is CDR for reckless and resetting death field on use with gaining a charge on kills too. This allows for amazing use of an Internal damage AoE with shadow craft, very much so creating AoE burst. I would match it as just behind Vengeance Slam AoE while having a better single target. Here's a prime example of resets and it's bursting potential in AoE.

Either way, this is probably one of the most fun specs to play currently this way at least for me, I have been a hatred enjoyer since it was still shared madness with Sorcerer. While Pyro is the tanky AoE, Vengeance is uncapped, and Hatred is currently the mixed bag for me. It's not tanky, its mobility isn't terrible (I don't take defensive talents but mobility ones), its single target is a lot stronger than before (thanks to 1s eradicate), and it has a unique interaction that it didn't use have that allows it to destroy clumps like its peers do. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Beyrahl

[sithBracer]

12 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Depending on how you play hatred/serenity at the moment damage is far from the issue. Though I don't think anyone would bother saying otherwise. 

I'm going to sort of ignore everything else and just respond to this. I know what hatred is and what can do, esp. if with a tank/heals or if people just ignore you. Damage, especially in large groups is not the issue with this spec and hasn't been for a while. The problem this spec has is that when someone just looks at you, you die. Defenses are worst than trash for this spec, and it requires you to be in melee ranged to get all it's real damage off. 

Not sure how you got derailed so much, but here are the original quotes that started this silly argument:

On 9/8/2023 at 9:25 AM, sithBracer said:

Hatred sin is asking "what are you smoking? May I have some please?".

Oh wait, nvm, he just died because a jugg looked at him. Carry on.

which was a response to:

On 9/7/2023 at 9:15 PM, TheVoyant said:

I'm with this take as well. But its not just class specific, Burst specs need love all around as DoT specs are better at Burst DPS and AoE w/ more built in passive survivability. 

Are you all nice and caught up now?

[Beyrahl]

9 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Are you all nice and caught up now?

17 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Not sure what's worse. The fact that you take dummy parses seriously, the fact that you actually talk about dummy parses on a PvP forum, or that you think hatred is a burst spec.

Clearly you know nothing about hatred, you know even less about PvP, so I recommend going back to VT flashpoints.

I was plenty caught up, this isn't about a triple quote back a whole page ago. But rather how you respond to people making your own narrative. You saw that he didn't say it's a burst spec but decided to say that he did just to try to berate him further. It's fine to disagree on something incredibly obvious (of which I also do agree as it is incredibly obvious), but comments like these make people not want to use the forums. 

9 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Not sure how you got derailed so much, but here are the original quotes that started this silly argument:

Very easy to do so when someone disregards something that's partially true. To break that down quickly, without making up anything or assuming anything but rather using word for word. 
 

17 hours ago, sithBracer said:

The fact that you take dummy parses seriously

This is important in defining the sustainability of a spec if it can maintain even one half of its parse without accuracy and perfect uptime it's relative to its power in PvP. There are more examples now of classes that need perfect uptime to reach even that half of it but it's still useful information. 
 

17 hours ago, sithBracer said:

actually talk about dummy parses on a PvP forum

Not only is parsing incredible for muscle memory and understanding the flow of your class, but it's also vital to commit to memory how to do it, because when it comes to being under pressure like PvP - this muscle memory shines and allows you to handle it far better. Literally, every single PvPer can improve by at least doing the bare min of a parse to understand how to optimize AoE and single target rotational windows, even if only used when they can free cast. There's a reason the level 10 dummy exists, no accuracy is required, nearly always shows what you'd max hit/hit on a squishy light armor. 
 

17 hours ago, sithBracer said:

that you think hatred is a burst spec.

On 9/9/2023 at 5:45 PM, TheVoyant said:

Hatred Sin is literally the highest DPS atm (35k+) in the game & excels at burst kills.

He isn't saying it's a burst spec, while even I disagree with what he says and show that I do - it doesn't make it any less true that you changed what he said to better suit your reply. I even showed an example of its Burst AoE capabilities, which I further said excels specifically at AoE explaining my disagreement but it's untrue to say it has no burst when it does in fact have some.
 

17 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Clearly you know nothing about hatred, you know even less about PvP, so I recommend going back to VT flashpoints.

While it does seem he's not experienced with hatred as much as others, this doesn't help anyone, nor does it help the actual issue of it being paper to insult someone commenting on it as a whole. Just another way to kill threads by doing a disservice to yourself and others. It's highly likely after the first negative reply or two they abandon the thread as useful feedback. As stated in multiple other threads - we know at least one dev reads it. While I have no quarrel with any of the topics at hand, I do hope you have some self-reflection on how you respond to people. It's far better to explain to them why you disagree/why they're wrong instead of berating them, it allows other people who bother to read through the replies (sometimes devs) to see actual issues being brought up along with educating the majority that do read.

TL;DR - Hatred's issue.
Hatred's issue is its durability. A talent point layout change would do wonders, so would having something added baseline like Shroud OR Overcharge saber. With talent reordering, making mobility easier to take instead of forcing defensive/utility hybrid picks versus mobility will leave them in a better position. While it is strong damage-wise and with two cloaks it can easily spin out of control. Giving it some damage reduction or building it into the spec wouldn't break it and simply would make it more playable. Most melee specs do often get a passive DR rotationally, whereas Hatred does not, Even Deception has an option for more Damage reduction and has a built-in passive that gives damage reduction. All hatred has outside of generic defense chance (doesn't work against yellow) is two GCD worth of shroud (Doesn't work against white damage) and AoE taunt that gives 30% DR for 6s. While the AoE taunt is not bad, that's its only form of DR. Even if it wanted to go a talent for more durability, it simply doesn't have it. Even with the transition into 7.0, it lost force speed absorption as did the whole class. Sadly, that was the only other meaningful mitigation it had outside of flat-out dodging or resisting. It also lost the talent to take increased armor which further increased its DR, even if it was armor penetrative it was still more than it has now.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Beyrahl

[TheVoyant]

Its just simple math, someone who has higher base damage with more actions per minute is going to crush the opposition. No more no less.

If you're hitting 50 apms with bonus damage just under or at 9k versus people hitting 30s or low 40s with 8.5k, you will hit them harder & faster. 

[krackcommando]

7 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

1/2th

the english major in me is grinding his teeth. 🤨

😄

[Beyrahl]

16 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

the english major in me is grinding his teeth. 🤨

yeah, I'm fried sometimes bugs me now you mention it

[sithBracer]

8 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

I was plenty caught up, this isn't about a triple quote back a whole page ago. But rather how you respond to people making your own narrative. You saw that he didn't say it's a burst spec but decided to say that he did just to try to berate him further. It's fine to disagree on something incredibly obvious (of which I also do agree as it is incredibly obvious), but comments like these make people not want to use the forums. 

Very easy to do so when someone disregards something that's partially true. To break that down quickly, without making up anything or assuming anything but rather using word for word. 

So I'm mean and I'm twisting his words? When someone says "excels at burst kills", you might assume that it means "has some sort of burst available at certain times", but I assume it means "excels at killing using burst", aka a burst spec. Maybe you are just being too charitable here for some unknown reason.

8 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Not only is parsing incredible for muscle memory and understanding the flow of your class, but it's also vital to commit to memory how to do it, because when it comes to being under pressure like PvP - this muscle memory shines and allows you to handle it far better. Literally, every single PvPer can improve by at least doing the bare min of a parse to understand how to optimize AoE and single target rotational windows, even if only used when they can free cast. There's a reason the level 10 dummy exists, no accuracy is required, nearly always shows what you'd max hit/hit on a squishy light armor. 

Ok, no one is talking about practicing your class in order to build up muscle memory. Of course you should practice, whether it be on a dummy, on FPs, on sm ops, doesn't matter. Practice at anything in life will make you better and more efficient at that thing, no one is arguing against that. He was bringing up a dummy parse in order to establish hatred as a powerhouse that is OP due to the fact that it parses so high. Stop pretending this is about anything other than that, especially after you just accused me of giving his words a very uncharitable interpretation. There is a reason we don't bring up dummy parses in PvP especially. Because players DON'T STAND STILL while you run the perfect rotation on them. This is so obvious, a person playing pvp for 5 minutes should know it.

Also, not sure if you noticed he backpedalled and lied saying he doesn't use dummy parses but rather some non existent single target boss parses where hatred was at the top. https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/firebrand-and-stormcaller/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/dread-master-styrak/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/nefra/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/dread-master-raptus/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/revan/8/VM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/nahut/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/scyva/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/apex-vanguard/8/MM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ https://parsely.io/parser/operation-stats/lord-kanoth/8/VM/dps/live/25/50/75/100/ This are the single targets I could find, while hatred is doing well in most of them (except gods), it is clearly not so high above all the other specs, it's not even #1 in any of them.

8 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

He isn't saying it's a burst spec, while even I disagree with what he says and show that I do - it doesn't make it any less true that you changed what he said to better suit your reply. I even showed an example of its Burst AoE capabilities, which I further said excels specifically at AoE explaining my disagreement but it's untrue to say it has no burst when it does in fact have some.

It excels at killing using burst, but is not a burst spec? He didn't say it has "some burst capabilities", he says it "excels at burst kills". What am I supposed to get from that? All classes have some burst capabilities. My leth op has some burst, my pyro PT has some burst, my op healer has some burst healing, even back in 2.0 my op healer had some burst damage (AoE + explosive probe + backstab), that doesn't mean they excel at killing using burst. Only burst specs do that. He said something silly, got laughed at for it, lied about it afterwards and for some reason you feel you need to cover for him...

8 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

TL;DR - Hatred's issue.
Hatred's issue is its durability. A talent point layout change would do wonders, so would having something added baseline like Shroud OR Overcharge saber. With talent reordering, making mobility easier to take instead of forcing defensive/utility hybrid picks versus mobility will leave them in a better position. While it is strong damage-wise and with two cloaks it can easily spin out of control. Giving it some damage reduction or building it into the spec wouldn't break it and simply would make it more playable. Most melee specs do often get a passive DR rotationally, whereas Hatred does not, Even Deception has an option for more Damage reduction and has a built-in passive that gives damage reduction. All hatred has outside of generic defense chance (doesn't work against yellow) is two GCD worth of shroud (Doesn't work against white damage) and AoE taunt that gives 30% DR for 6s. While the AoE taunt is not bad, that's its only form of DR. Even if it wanted to go a talent for more durability, it simply doesn't have it. Even with the transition into 7.0, it lost force speed absorption as did the whole class. Sadly, that was the only other meaningful mitigation it had outside of flat-out dodging or resisting. It also lost the talent to take increased armor which further increased its DR, even if it was armor penetrative it was still more than it has now.

Since this is the only part of the post that has any value, I'll address it seriously. 

The issue with hatred is that it is a melee DoT spec with no defenses. It's not one of those things, it is all of them combined. Because it is a DoT spec setup takes while. Because it is melee it needs to be in the middle of everything. Because it has no defenses ... well that is the easy part to see. The entire spec works against itself. There is no real way to fix it without breaking it. Just making shroud baseline will not fix it. Just adding one more passive defense will not fix it. This spec makes no sense, it is a contradiction. That is one of the reasons why people like it so much. The only way to fix it, is to make it broken OP.

Since 6.0, they are trying to turn hatred into an AoE monster with very strong single target sustained damage, but they also want to keep it really really squishy. It has been many years already and this is clearly where they want it and this is not going to change. More defenses is something hatred players have been asking for since it was madness. BW clearly doesn't want to give them any. So, give it up already. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

The only thing I personally want is for them to give back range to death field, eradicate and possibly extend the range of discharge to 30m. Also let death field spread DoTs again, it could even be a talent we have to choose. There is no more solo ranked, TTK is not what it was in 3.0, there is no reason to not revert. That alone would make this speck so much easier to play, remove its contradiction, and create new and more creative ways to play it.

[AocaVII]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:23 PM, Samcuu said:

I haven't logged into the game in a week or so I've been out of town so I can't check myself so my question is...

In the patch notes it said they moved ability choices to other rows in the tree. I know the outrage right now is that they gave sorc a good dcd, but has anyone done the digging to see what choices they are forcing u to make in other parts of the tree. Madness might lose something from all the shifting around of ability choices?

I can rip apart madness sorcerer on Eng sniper in 10 seconds. Don't believe the hype. I destroyed a "very good" sorc in 4s very easy. They get hit for 16Ok because they are light armored. Almost half the health bar with one hit.

[Samcuu]

3 hours ago, AocaVII said:

I can rip apart madness sorcerer on Eng sniper in 10 seconds. Don't believe the hype. I destroyed a "very good" sorc in 4s very easy. They get hit for 16Ok because they are light armored. Almost half the health bar with one hit.

Yeah for all the outrage about a supposed madness buff I haven't seen it personally. I played pvp all weekend and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. In fact I saw more lightning sorcs than madness. 

[Faltun]

17 hours ago, AocaVII said:

I can rip apart madness sorcerer on Eng sniper in 10 seconds. Don't believe the hype. I destroyed a "very good" sorc in 4s very easy. They get hit for 16Ok because they are light armored. Almost half the health bar with one hit.

You realise that it was told in this post like 4 times madness has the highest passive DR from any dps spec, yes including heavy armor users. One of the main point of this whole post is their passive dmg reduction as a cloth user and their self hela and mobility, losing half of your hp as madness is nothing.... And this is not some subjective someone feel butthurt crying thing. Its simple fact, madness has 30% + DR 95% of the time and can heal back half of their hp in few gcds while can run and los the enemy behind an object any time. 

Im on a holiday and checking the forum on the airport, but im gonna be home after 21 sept, you can show me how you destroy my madness sorcerer as an engi sniper in a duel. We can even publish a YT video about the fight... You can show it either on DM or SF! 

Its easy to throw random words to a post, without facts.... Here is Your chance to prove your words and show how you destroy a madness sorcerer as a sniper!

@Samcuu the same thing goes for you too, you always defend op specs, idk your skill level or how much you know about pvp or class balance or how respected you re in the pvp community, but you are a big forum hero. i would really love to see what you know about this game by actually playing the game, and not just throwing subjective random things on the forum. So yeah bring any specs(except lethality and skank jugg those are kinda as op as madness) and play against me when im on madness. All i want is that the heros on this post saying madness is not op as **** prove their opinion, since they dont write anything that can be used to prove or deny it, then pls show me in the game in combat!

Im sorry everyone, but im a bit tired of some ppl saying random things on forum, without proof, without ever write any details or numbers or abilities or anything useful that can be used to prove or deny things, just that how they feel about a spec.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Faltun

[Samcuu]

6 hours ago, Faltun said:

except lethality

Lol that's my main class been playing it since 2.0 when there were still skill trees. Nobody is saying madness isn't an op spec, especially 1 v 1 so what do you think you'd be proving by using one of the best 1 v 1 specs in game in a duel lol. This is an mmo it's never been easy for any mmo in history to balance classes, madness is s tier atm so bravo for being a stereotypical mmo player qqing on the forums and crying for madness nerfs. Same as everyone did against Mara in 4.0, Merc in 5.0, conc ops in 6.0, and so on. 

Btw I don't play madness I play lightning and I out dps pretty much any madness sorc I see, they aren't a massive issue in wzs (unless ppl abuse the meta and class stack but that could be said of any decent class). Arenas is probably a different story but I'm not a big arena fan so I won't comment on that. 

So tldr good job in bringing up facts about this particular class. It's their time to shine as there will always be a class outperforming others in pvp. So my advice is adjust to the meta, and move on. When they are nerfed and useless u can come back and complain about the op class that takes their place 😂😂 btw big fan of you calling me a forum hero and then asking to 1 v 1 the irony is delicious 👍👍

Edited September 14, 2023 by Samcuu

[SentinalMasterWW]

Lets say Madness is not the OP class as @Faltun Describes. 

It still is clear leagues and above other specs. The only Class I could find that could beat a skilled Madness Sorc, consistently is AP PT's with their opener. 

Basically anytime in Arena's, I prep with max Cell load and Shoulder missile.

Match starts,

-Pull with harpoon

-Thermal Detonator

-Carbonize

-Superheated Fuel

-Cell burst

-Power Yield

-Cell burst

Scummy Tactic but if you don't kill them in the opener they can rapidly Regen their health back. 

Let Me Reiterate that Madness Sorcs basically have a 10 Sec Cooldown on Force speed, Can cast almost everything on the move, Have Passive Health Regen from Dot's and Static barrier, and almost all their attacks ignore armor.

I also want to add, that last night in a Huttball match, I had to deal with 5 Madness Sorcs. It is not like Madness is a hard spec to play, it really isn't. The hardest part of Madness is not dying, like all the Kiting I can do with it is broken beyond belief. There are times where I see premades class stacking as Madness because they know its broken. 

On 9/13/2023 at 10:58 AM, AocaVII said:

I can rip apart madness sorcerer on Eng sniper in 10 seconds. Don't believe the hype. I destroyed a "very good" sorc in 4s very easy. They get hit for 16Ok because they are light armored. Almost half the health bar with one hit.

If you are running Ionic, Than that Sorc wasn't very good. Because Ionic is the meta hugging tactical right now, Smart players know how to cheese it, or reduce its DMG massively. You might get one big hit, but that is about it. A good madness sorc can just prep for it, Survive it, Than melt you down with DOT's and regen their health back. 

 

I also want to add that fighting one Madness sorc isn't so bad, but fighting multiple at once is hell in of itself. 

I have a madness sorc that is baseline 332 Gear, with both implants, and basic Rho tactical. No Augs or anything, and I can still clown on the entire other team with how broken it is. Compare it to playing something like Commando where I am everyones favorite punching bag, its basically night and day. 

[meddani]

2 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I also want to add that fighting one Madness sorc isn't so bad, but fighting multiple at once is hell in of itself. 

 

applies for every class in this game, but don't worry your precious merc/mando will be overtuned pretty soon, wouldn't be surprised if they get another phase walk clone like snipers

edit: pretty funny you've been complaining that madness is op but also saying fighting one madness sorc isn't bad, so they're not op lol

Edited September 14, 2023 by meddani

[krackcommando]

10 hours ago, Samcuu said:

for being a stereotypical mmo player qqing on the forums and crying for madness nerfs. Same as everyone did against Mara in 4.0, Merc in 5.0, conc ops in 6.0, and so on.

iunno. a lot of the complaints are over the top, but in general, when the boat loads of players jump on the complaint waggon, there is a problem. I didn't play merc at its height in 5.0, but I did play assault/pyro PT at its height, and it really was a joke that anything could hit that hard and be that easy to play.

Edited September 15, 2023 by krackcommando

[Bigfallenstar]

17 hours ago, Faltun said:

You realise that it was told in this post like 4 times madness has the highest passive DR from any dps spec, yes including heavy armor users. One of the main point of this whole post is their passive dmg reduction as a cloth user and their self hela and mobility, losing half of your hp as madness is nothing.... And this is not some subjective someone feel butthurt crying thing. Its simple fact, madness has 30% + DR 95% of the time and can heal back half of their hp in few gcds while can run and los the enemy behind an object any time. 

Im on a holiday and checking the forum on the airport, but im gonna be home after 21 sept, you can show me how you destroy my madness sorcerer as an engi sniper in a duel. We can even publish a YT video about the fight... You can show it either on DM or SF! 

Its easy to throw random words to a post, without facts.... Here is Your chance to prove your words and show how you destroy a madness sorcerer as a sniper!

@Samcuu the same thing goes for you too, you always defend op specs, idk your skill level or how much you know about pvp or class balance or how respected you re in the pvp community, but you are a big forum hero. i would really love to see what you know about this game by actually playing the game, and not just throwing subjective random things on the forum. So yeah bring any specs(except lethality and skank jugg those are kinda as op as madness) and play against me when im on madness. All i want is that the heros on this post saying madness is not op as **** prove their opinion, since they dont write anything that can be used to prove or deny it, then pls show me in the game in combat!

Im sorry everyone, but im a bit tired of some ppl saying random things on forum, without proof, without ever write any details or numbers or abilities or anything useful that can be used to prove or deny things, just that how they feel about a spec.

The reason they're saying that is one: You're being reactionary, and saying the sky's falling, like everyone does when anything happens in game or on the forums. And two: You're not saying anything that hasn't been said or done for any other class that was considered op at the time. There's always going to be one class that's going to gets major buffs to it and everyone gravitates to. Merc had it, operative had it, now it's madness. And one day, it'll be another class that gets it's time in the spotlight.

[Faltun]

On 9/14/2023 at 6:09 PM, Samcuu said:

So tldr good job in bringing up facts about this particular class. It's their time to shine as there will always be a class outperforming others in pvp. So my advice is adjust to the meta, and move on. When they are nerfed and useless u can come back and complain about the op class that takes their place 😂😂 btw big fan of you calling me a forum hero and then asking to 1 v 1 the irony is delicious

Oh yeah, so once a spec has its "time to shine" then it should last for 2-3 years without a change, when its obvious they re op... and thats ok, we should just sit quietly in the corner let them ruin the pvp experience and dont bring any attention to it or give any feedback. Even if with small changes it could be less op and still stay a top tier spec, but no, we have to accept that they even buff them more, because its their time to shine.... BTW im the biggest supporter who would nerf Engi sniper big boom tactical or even remove it.... and i even dont run it because i dont think its okay for engi to work like that, even had a forum post about that early 7.0 era

Okay, so yeah im the guy who is totally lost here right? Because i asked You and others who say random things on forum to prove what you say, You can say irony and you can try to troll me, but i do things and if i say things i prove them with actions, the same cannot be said by anyone who say engi can rip apart any half good madness sorcerer... Thats why i asked you or anyone who support that idea for a duel, so you can show and demonstrate this and the result, the recorded video can even go public, so you can all prove the opinion you support:

 

 

On 9/13/2023 at 7:58 PM, AocaVII said:

I can rip apart madness sorcerer on Eng sniper in 10 seconds. Don't believe the hype. I destroyed a "very good" sorc in 4s very easy. They get hit for 16Ok because they are light armored. Almost half the health bar with one hit.

3 of you supported this comment @EmperorRus @-Bob- @Samcuu randomly saying stuff without any details or video or anything, i guess this means that you agree with this opinion, then why dont you prove it? You call me whatevet you like, you defend op specs, you support comments like this... yet you dont have the balls to go and show how you do this in game against just a half good madness sorcerer like me.... instead you re trying to troll me.....

You can try to make fun of this, trolling about this and call for irony after i called you forum hero and making stupid nerd things like all the no life mmorpg players do and all stuff, but well what im asking for is just proof, which can be shown easily in a duel, just to prove if this comment is true or not, yet none of you have the balls to go for a duel as engi sniper against me as madness sorc to support your opinion, to just demonstrate what that comment describes.... but sure i am the bad guy here, the noob who says stupid things... and dont prove anything with actions supported with videos...  

Edited September 16, 2023 by Faltun

[Samcuu]

Lol you are unhinged my dood 😂😂 nobody called u any of those names. And nobody said you shouldn't make posts showing the discrepancy between the op classes and the classes that are underperforming. It's important. We are just simply saying that your wildly reactionary posts are  cringe. Stating you are face tanking 5 ppl in a wz ect ect, it's hyperbole at best not fact. Get control of yourself and communicate like a grown up as opposed to a stereotypical frothing at the mouth try hard pvper👍👍

Reality is... yes in the game ur playing swtor, OP classes have a long shelf life. Leth op was broken from October 2019 until they fixed the tactical just several months ago. Is that good? No, broken abilities should be fixed asap, but unfortunately it's the reality of the situation. Besides I dont think nerfing classes into oblivion is the right path forward. I'd rather see other classes get buffed and allow the cream to rise to the top, meaning players make the difference not the class, and giving said players plenty of options to be viable in pvp. 

So you've stated your issues and posted your "facts", good. Now you can focus on the areas you can control like learning to deal with the current meta. Again I don't see madness as a massive problem. They got another good dcd, do u disagree that the change to dmg type resulted in a dmg nerf? If so I'd like to hear your opinion of why it's not. In my experience I haven't seen a lot of ppl running the spec because for one it's boring, and two it's not that overpowered damage wise. So you get fotms who play it but don't end up having a massive impact on a match because they spend their time kiting, hiding, and healing themselves (class stacking meta abusing premades not included because as has been mentioned that issue isnt exclusive to madness). It's not like ur losing elo to the massive amounts of madness fotm players.