Have You seen the combat changes in the patch notes? The sorcerer part....

[Faltun]

Have You seen the combat changes in the patch notes?

So our beloved sorcerers, who already rule every wzs and the average number of sorcerers in warzones is like about 6-8. sometimes 10-12, sometimes just 4.
So these sorcerers now got their movement talent built into the class, given to every sorcerers(madness\lightning) without the need to choose it.... and they get a new talent to replace the mobility talent, which reduces their hard stun's CD and after the stun effect expires, it reduce dmg output of the target by 25% for 10 seconds.

Lets take a look at madness, it has better passive dmg reduction constantly up than any other dps heavy armor users as a ranged cloth user... and has the best self heals next to the best dmg reduction.. aaaand one of the best mobility... aaaaand 2 combat resets.... aaaand sorc is one of the few specs that could keep its stun without a talent choice after 7.0..... aaaand it has a 5 sec aoe root on 20 sec cd..... this buff was needed indeed for sorc!

I always like to make a summary what this spec has, because its even more fun to look at it as a list.  

- Better passive DMG reduction better than any dps specs in the game as a ranged
- Best self heals, most of them built into DMG abilities, or dosent respect GCD, so these self heals come without losing DPS, but if these enormous self heals are not enough they can always go los and use absorb bubble or casting some heals without a cd.
- One of the best mobility
- 2 combat resets, phase walk, big bubble

- Superb control, 5 sec aoe root on 20 sec cd, hard stun on 50 sec cd with new talent, which is reduced by alacrity aka even with the use of polarity shift so its even less than 50 secs. 2 sec root on single target every 9 seconds with minor dps loss.
- One of the best if not the best offensive cd... polarity shift for 15 seconds, which gives 50% speed bonus, some sick alacrity boost 20% i think, make you immune to interrupts, and with the sorc implant 20% bonus dmg to all force dmg. The fun thing in all of this, its cd is short, because with the other basic sorc implant its cd is reduced by the use of force sprint, which you use on cd....

I dont even mention the support\utility part... with pull, bubble, instant hot and castable off heals to help your teammates in a close arena match which is totally unmatched by any other dps specs...

 

Sorcerer / Sage

• Teaching of Rajivari mod now deals the correct type of damage.

• Plague Master mod now deals the correct type of damage. 

Lightning / Telekinetics

• Force Mobility is now baseline for Lightning / Telekinetics. 

• Torturous Tactics / Staggering Stratagem replaces Force Mobility as a level 51 utility choice. 

  • Torturous Tactics / Staggering Stratagem - Lowers the cooldown of Electrocute / Force Stun by 10 seconds. In addition, targets stunned by your Electrocute /Force Stun deal 25% less damage for 10 seconds when Electrocute / Force Stun wears off.

Madness / Balance

• Force Mobility is now baseline for Madness / Balance. 

• Torturous Tactics / Staggering Stratagem replaces Force Mobility as a level 51 utility choice. 

• Torturous Tactics / Staggering Stratagem - Lowers the cooldown of Electrocute / Force Stun by 10 seconds. In addition, targets stunned by your Electrocute / Force Stun deal 25% less damage for 10 seconds when Electrocute / Force Stun wears off.

• Force Speed is now granted at level 25. 

• Shifted Critical Movement / Enhanced Force Speed to level 27 Row. 

• Shifted Cloud Mind to level 43 Row. 

Is there any decent players out there who can die on madness at all in wzs? i mean die on madness is a real challenge, after this change it will be even harder to do.  Going for 1v1 against a decent madness was a no go already... after your dmg will be reduced by 25% for 10 seconds like every 40 secs, supposedly on your dmg window... its totally pointless to go against any madness. I guess just run every time you see one

Im really curious what is going on in the head of the guy that finds out changes like this.... seriously i really want to understand. Does he or she even know what is going on in wzs at all?

What are your thoughts?

Edited September 6, 2023 by Faltun

[sithBracer]

Their plan is to make madness sorcs so OP that playing them becomes so boring, people stop playing them and try another class.

From all the mercs and juggs I see in wzs, it seems to be working.

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by sithBracer

[RACATW]

Unlimited Power! 🌩️

[krackcommando]

I can't tell if it's just that I'm old or what, but certainly someone has dropped the (almost too obvious) THIS IS MADNESS! line?

No. This - is - SWTOR!

[WHstwroATo]

Well the spec is called "madness" so I guess it also requires madness to adjust it

[SentinalMasterWW]

The problem is they keep balancing for PVE, 

They don't take PVP into consideration at all. 

This change is clearly more for PVP cause why do you need a cool down on stuns for PVE 99% of all PVE encounters are immune to stuns so clearly someone on the Dev team mains sorc

[sithBracer]

15 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

The problem is they keep balancing for PVE, 

They don't take PVP into consideration at all. 

This change is clearly more for PVP cause why do you need a cool down on stuns for PVE 99% of all PVE encounters are immune to stuns so clearly someone on the Dev team mains sorc

There is nothing about giving them a reduction on STUN (you know that thing that bosses are immune to?) and then lowering their attack after it is done that has to do with PvE. That entire line hardly has anything to do with PvE. Static barrier cackle is pretty much PvP only, the 3% DR can be used for PvE but it honestly is a non factor.

This is 100% a PvP change to buff sorcs in PvP.

Edited September 6, 2023 by sithBracer

[meddani]

19 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

There is nothing about giving them a reduction on STUN (you know that thing that bosses are immune to?) and then lowering their attack after it is done that has to do with PvE. That entire line hardly has anything to do with PvE. Static barrier cackle is pretty much PvP only, the 3% DR can be used for PvE but it honestly is a non factor.

This is 100% a PvP change to buff sorcs in PvP.

ignore him, it should be pretty obvious he has no idea what he's talking about lol. his posts are always "merc bad, sorc overpowered".

he's only satisfied when they bring the 5,X mercs back.

[SentinalMasterWW]

15 minutes ago, meddani said:

ignore him, it should be pretty obvious he has no idea what he's talking about lol. his posts are always "merc bad, sorc overpowered".

he's only satisfied when they bring the 5,X mercs back.

Seriously why does everyone think I want merc to be meta? I despise the idea of meta specs. 

Ive played every spec in the game. 

Yes there is going to be specs that are better than others, but right now there is a massive difference between the meta and everything else.

Merc is trash lol, I can steam roll every merc because nobody plays it to it's potential lol, like I barely see people pop chaff and cleanse. 

Merc literally just has defensives, if you think it's DMG output is OP I question what spec you are playing. 

Sorc is OP, Faltun, I and others have stated it. What is Sorc bad at? What is the con? 

I'm not going to list the pros since the OG post already did that. 

 

[Faltun]

Now You can take the 3x5%(15%) dmg reduction on dots, 95% uptime and and reduced force speed cooldown by 3 seconds every 5 seconds, which can let you use force speed on an even shorter cooldown, basically you can kinda use force speed around every 10 seconds on a spec that already had the best mobility  Until today you had to chose one from this 2 very strong talent points, mobility or dmg reduction, now you can have both while not losing anything important!  

and there is the reduced cd on hard stun, which also reduce dmg output of the target by 25% for 10 secs  and the built in cast on move! 

all these changes on a spec that already had the best survivability and mobility  

I have one question: HOW THE HELL DID THIS GO LIVE? And when are they gonna get a hotfix for it? Clearly this wont stay long on Live servers!

If You dont believe me, log to your sorcerer and check how you can reach 10sec cd on force speed while having 30%+ dmg reduction 35%+ if you take another 5% passive dmg red on skill tree and skipping the shorter cd on stun, running up and down while casting force leech, having 2 combat resets and the strongest self heal heal in the game as a dps


Pls dont hate on me, check this before you say anything. If you think its ok to have 10 sec cd on force speed, that breaks every movement impairing effects and makes you immune to it and you travel at light speed for 2,5 seconds while you have 30%+ dmg reduction with the built in self heals and hard stun and 5 secs aoe root on 20 sec cd and 15 sec polarity shift on a short cd.... so if you think its ok for a spec in pvp, then please play any other spec against just madness sorcs in the rest of your life...  

Edited September 14, 2023 by Faltun

[Samcuu]

This is a good change for lightning. Y'all keep saying sorc as if all sorc specs are created equal, they aren't. Madness is the culprit here imo. 

[NotPrimetime]

This is classic example of Juggernaut/Guardian and Marauder/Sentinel projection. Pure propaganda!

Edited: Oh see he got called out as a Mercenary/Commando projectionist.

Edited September 7, 2023 by NotPrimetime
I can so I do.

[DougTheNoob]

Omg! Devs failed once againt trying to balance classes ? Or they dont care about it for starters? Madness still OP ?! I'm shocked!!! 

 

 

Stop subscribing. They dont deserve pvprs money if they dont care at all about this game mode. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by DougTheNoob

[Samcuu]

I haven't logged into the game in a week or so I've been out of town so I can't check myself so my question is...

In the patch notes it said they moved ability choices to other rows in the tree. I know the outrage right now is that they gave sorc a good dcd, but has anyone done the digging to see what choices they are forcing u to make in other parts of the tree. Madness might lose something from all the shifting around of ability choices?

[SentinalMasterWW]

5 hours ago, NotPrimetime said:

This is classic example of Juggernaut/Guardian and Marauder/Sentinel projection. Pure propaganda!

Edited: Oh see he got called out as a Mercenary/Commando projectionist.

*Facepalms* 

Seriously. 

I actually wish Maras/Sentinels got some buffs, Mainly Anni and Fury, Fury got hit hard (Granted it was deserved on how broken it was at launch). 

Again, I don't just main one spec, and I also don't main meta because there is no skill to be had, I can play Deception and abuse CC's and secure kills with my feet kicked up. I handicap myself with Madness Sorc with poor Tree choices and secure ez Kills with it. 

But people whine and think Mercs/Commando's are OP because they hit into their defensives cause they don't know how they work 🤷‍♂️ 

7 hours ago, Faltun said:

Pls dont hate on me, check this before you say anything. If you think its ok to have 10 sec cd on force speed, that breaks every movement impairing effects and makes you immune to it and you travel at light speed for 2,5 seconds while you have 30%+ dmg reduction with the built in self heals and hard stun and 5 secs aoe root on 20 sec cd and 15 sec polarity shift on a short cd.... so if you think its ok for a spec in pvp, then please play any other spec against just madness sorcs in the rest of your life...

This, 

Play something like Sniper against a Sweaty Madness Sorc and see how long you live. 

Even more fun, Try playing against multiple Sweaty Madness sorcs Class Stacking. I've literally had matches where the other team is 4-6 Madness Sorcs. Faltun even literally has a video on Sorcs Class stacking. 

[Faltun]

Whats the point of comments like this? Like i said i already checked. i already wrote my experiences. There is no choices they want to force. Simply now madness has 30% + dmg reduction cosntantly up, 10 sec cd on force sprint which last 2,5 seconds, force leech cast on the move and a new tool lower CD on stun which reduce dmg output on the target for 10 sec by 25%. 

Next to all the op stuff madness already had. im not gonna write it again since i wrote it already 3 times in this post, there is no choice to make and they lost cloud mind....

Go check for yourself, i tested in quite many games yesterday, played against full premades, coudlnt die against electro nets engi snipers and dec sinc, nothing can kill me at all. I was in GOD mode spending  most of the game force speeding while no one could root\slow me, so they couldnt even run from me, while i could run whenever i wanted against ex ranked gold\platina premade, i ddnt have to use a single phase walk or big bubble at all because even without those i was in GOD mode simply becuase i was twice as mobile as the most mobile spec after madness, has the best dmg reduction, better than heavy armor users and melee specs and has the best self heal built into your dmg abilitites, force speedng 25% of the whole wz.....

Im gonna have videos about madness on YT, so everyone can see for themselves, after iam back from my holiday at the end of september. Im pretty sure other content creators will show madness in GOD mode until im back.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Faltun

[Beyrahl]

5 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Madness might lose something from all the shifting around of ability choices?

Loses cloud mind basically. But gains the ability to take reduced cooldown force speed over dot explosion/aoe lightning strike. Which I feel is decent, though I do feel the current version of the force speed talent is a bit too strong. Mobility is fine don't get me wrong but that talent plus DR at the same time is a lot. It's going to be one of the most mobile classes when they do decide to take that talent which I don't hate but poor carnage/combat marauders' speed won't be so surprising anymore even if they're 10x easier to counter. 

[sithBracer]

10 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

*Facepalms* 

Seriously. 

I actually wish Maras/Sentinels got some buffs, Mainly Anni and Fury, Fury got hit hard (Granted it was deserved on how broken it was at launch). 

Again, I don't just main one spec, and I also don't main meta because there is no skill to be had, I can play Deception and abuse CC's and secure kills with my feet kicked up. I handicap myself with Madness Sorc with poor Tree choices and secure ez Kills with it. 

But people whine and think Mercs/Commando's are OP because they hit into their defensives cause they don't know how they work 🤷‍♂️ 

This, 

Play something like Sniper against a Sweaty Madness Sorc and see how long you live. 

Even more fun, Try playing against multiple Sweaty Madness sorcs Class Stacking. I've literally had matches where the other team is 4-6 Madness Sorcs. Faltun even literally has a video on Sorcs Class stacking. 

Ok first, we all know that you can't play anything other than arsenal, because that spec is so easy people shown they can play it with one hand. You can't play deception as you have proved time and time again you know nothing about it. Just mezzing with lowslash over and over is not going to do anything other than raise their resolve bar. I also doubt you can properly spread DoTs and pick targets on madness either. But, feel free to prove me wrong. Send me your character in a DM and I'll play with you. If you actually can play well on deception, I'll publicly apologize and admit you are actually amazing, but we all know that won't be happening.

Also, no one says merc is OP. They say that merc defenses are OP and it is compensated by their lower dps and lower mobility. You can't have literally everything or you are OP like madness sorcs are atm. I would love for mercs to go back to being annihilators that melted everyone from a distance like in 4.X and before, but they need to have at least some of their defenses removed to compensate for it. You can't just face tank and melt everyone, it becomes boring and people will just stop playing other classes.

Arsenal does need a sustained damage buff for PvE though. IDK if they buff they gave it will be enough, but anything is better than where it is now.

Edited September 7, 2023 by sithBracer

[SentinalMasterWW]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

Ok first, we all know that you can't play anything other than arsenal, because that spec is so easy people shown they can play it with one hand. You can't play deception as you have proved time and time again you know nothing about it. Just mezzing with lowslash over and over is not going to do anything other than raise their resolve bar. I also doubt you can properly spread DoTs and pick targets on madness either. But, feel free to prove me wrong. Send me your character in a DM and I'll play with you. If you actually can play well on deception, I'll publicly apologize and admit you are actually amazing, but we all know that won't be happening.

Also, no one says merc is OP. They say that merc defenses are OP and it is compensated by their lower dps and lower mobility. You can't have literally everything or you are OP like madness sorcs are atm. I would love for mercs to go back to being annihilators that melted everyone from a distance like in 4.X and before, but they need to have at least some of their defenses removed to compensate for it. You can't just face tank and melt everyone, it becomes boring and people will just stop playing other classes.

Arsenal does need a sustained damage buff for PvE though. IDK if they buff they gave it will be enough, but anything is better than where it is now.

I don't Care lmao

I have nothing to prove to you, You and the others are trying to veer off the topic at Hand. I'm trying to stay on topic of the Original post. I don't care about duels lmao, I don't need to prove myself to some stranger on the internet. Chances are I farmed you in a WZ on Star Forge. 🤷‍♂️

8 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Loses cloud mind basically. But gains the ability to take reduced cooldown force speed over dot explosion/aoe lightning strike. Which I feel is decent, though I do feel the current version of the force speed talent is a bit too strong. Mobility is fine don't get me wrong but that talent plus DR at the same time is a lot. It's going to be one of the most mobile classes when they do decide to take that talent which I don't hate but poor carnage/combat marauders' speed won't be so surprising anymore even if they're 10x easier to counter. 

Their already Extremely Mobile, and I wasn't a fan of the fact that they made Force leach able to be casted on the move. The issue arises that even if you do have a strong class for example AP PT's, Sorcs are still going to be a massive pain with their Force Speed that they can get every 10 Secs or so. 

Like if the Dev's want Sorc to be a hyper mobile spec, thats whatever. But there has to be some Drawback to playing something like Madness. Every other spec has pro's and Con's and Madness really doesn't have any major ones.

[sithBracer]

51 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I don't Care lmao

I have nothing to prove to you, You and the others are trying to veer off the topic at Hand. I'm trying to stay on topic of the Original post. I don't care about duels lmao, I don't need to prove myself to some stranger on the internet. Chances are I farmed you in a WZ on Star Forge. 🤷‍♂️

Oh trust me, you proved a lot of things already.

And you tried farming me, I just kept cleansing your nets remember?

 

On 5/31/2023 at 12:42 AM, SentinalMasterWW said:

-Change Electro net to NOT be cleansable, Net is basically the only really solid thing these specs have and having it be cleansed really defeats Nets gimmick as a hinder to stop melee/Ranged specs, but especially melee specs. 

 

[TheVoyant]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:50 PM, Samcuu said:

This is a good change for lightning. Y'all keep saying sorc as if all sorc specs are created equal, they aren't. Madness is the culprit here imo. 

I'm with this take as well. But its not just class specific, Burst specs need love all around as DoT specs are better at Burst DPS and AoE w/ more built in passive survivability. 

Mercs got the same benefit with Thrill of the Hunt and the return of the 15% Alacrity boost on Electro Net option or 60% Kolto. As if Mercs needed more defense options. 

I like the change but still neglects the core balancing issues that plague PvP as a whole.

[sithBracer]

12 hours ago, TheVoyant said:

I'm with this take as well. But its not just class specific, Burst specs need love all around as DoT specs are better at Burst DPS and AoE w/ more built in passive survivability. 

Mercs got the same benefit with Thrill of the Hunt and the return of the 15% Alacrity boost on Electro Net option or 60% Kolto. As if Mercs needed more defense options. 

I like the change but still neglects the core balancing issues that plague PvP as a whole.

Hatred sin is asking "what are you smoking? May I have some please?".

Oh wait, nvm, he just died because a jugg looked at him. Carry on.

Edited September 8, 2023 by sithBracer

[RACATW]

Just now, sithBracer said:

Hatred sin is asking "what are you smoking? May I have some please?".

Nah, I agree with him. 200k burst damage from a dots sniper is crazy.

[sithBracer]

38 minutes ago, RACATW said:

Nah, I agree with him. 200k burst damage from a dots sniper is crazy.

lol last night I got hit for 178k from a sniper, not including the DoT and plasma probe around me. My health went down to like 2% in an instant. But yeah, it's those virulence snipers we have to worry about lol.

Edited September 8, 2023 by sithBracer

[Lord_Malganus]

I see the "balancing" was just another joke with 7.3.1.