krackcommando Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Whykara said: Yes, that's what I meant, maybe I'm not good enough with my words. As I said, my win rate in warzones after 300 matches on my tank spec is 56%. Consistently more than 50%, but not by a lot. My point was that individual skill does have an impact on the win rate, but not enough to give out rewards based on it. my own experience prolly isn't a good barometer b/c I screw around a lot, especially lately. but I don't think win percentages stratify enough to create any sort of tier system. even if you want to ignore the many mixed queue factors and balance concerns. but tbh, if all you're competing for is a few more tokens per season, the rewards are rather meaningless anyway. everything "new" you get for free just for completing the season. iunno. game's a mess from the prizes perspective. but I think BW is largely happy. they seem to like the hamster wheel grindy stuff. and it did produce a huge influx of players. so I don't see anything changing significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 10 hours ago, Whykara said: My point was that individual skill does have an impact on the win rate, but not enough to give out rewards based on it. I just don't agree with this. Individual skill does affect winning. And even if you're hardstuck on the idea that "you can't carry 7 other guys" and "the matchmaking is all luck." Remember that in the next game, the enemy team is just as likely to have those 7 guys as you are. But even if you disagree with everything I just said, I don't think you need the most perfect matchmaking for these rewards. They aren't that special. Sure if BioWare were to give out top3 titles and flairs, then yes. I would agree with you. We would need perfect matchmaking where your achievements perfectly reflect your skill. But, the rewards I suggest giving out are literally just extra token and a generic flair. They're basic rewards to incentivize winning. Otherwise you're going to continue to get casuals in 324 gear and deathmatchers who ruin the entire warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, septru said: Otherwise you're going to continue to get casuals in 324 gear and deathmatchers who ruin the entire warzone. nah. they'd just complain that the "achievement" for those extra 3 tokens is too hard (as they do for the extra achievement tokens now). mostly human nature at work there, tbf. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I have also been around since 2011, got the founder title to prove it. The exclusivity will bring down the population. This isn't the Olympics, this isn't real life, this is a video game. Olympics is full of people who want to be the best and strive to get the gold. This more like hey you want to go play basket ball in the park? Bioware is going to follow the money and pvp isn't where the money comes in. Cartel market first subs second. I don't think that should be right but that is how it goes. The people most likely to buy CM items are casuals. Bioware is not going to go for skill based or win based cause they would rather loose a hardcore then a potential CM buyer. Just my theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nee-Elder Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Xedry said: I have also been around since 2011, got the founder title to prove it. Me too, actually since 2009 pre-annoucement forums. That & a quarter gets me a whopping bag-o-nothin'. Edited June 7, 2023 by Nee-Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Xedry said: The exclusivity will bring down the population. nah. you would still bang your head against a wall to get your nice new gear. you just wouldn't get access to all the sets, decos, etc. that comes out for each season. or maybe not all of the skins for the mounts. that sort of thing. Edited June 7, 2023 by krackcommando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, krackcommando said: nah. you would still bang your head against a wall to get your nice new gear. you just wouldn't get access to all the sets, decos, etc. that comes out for each season. or maybe not all of the skins for the mounts. that sort of thing. No if I cannot get something I'd leave. Most people would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whykara Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Xedry said: No if I cannot get something I'd leave. Most people would By that logic I should've quit this game years ago because I most likely will never get the Wings of the Architect. Of course you can get merit based rewards, you just have to git gud. What you're saying is you don't want to put in effort for rewards. Which is a mentality that MMO devs honestly should not cater to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Whykara said: By that logic I should've quit this game years ago because I most likely will never get the Wings of the Architect. Of course you can get merit based rewards, you just have to git gud. What you're saying is you don't want to put in effort for rewards. Which is a mentality that MMO devs honestly should not cater to. You're confusing what I said. I didn't say if I cannot have it by just by showing up I'd leave... I said If I cannot get it, implying that my skill level wouldn't allow me to finish the season like krackcommando implied. I would leave most people would. Have I once said in my posts that skill should not be rewarded? Let me ask you something did everyone in swtor participate in ranked pvp?? Do you think over half the population did?? How many would you say did ranked pvp?? And why do you think they don't have it anymore.... by your logic ranked pvp should not only still be here but should be booming. Which do you think the devs are chasing right now? Your logic or mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nee-Elder Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Xedry said: Which do you think the devs are chasing right now? Your logic or mine? i'd say neither? --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929816-an-update-on-the-development-of-swtor/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Xedry said: Let me ask you something did everyone in swtor participate in ranked pvp?? Do you think over half the population did?? How many would you say did ranked pvp?? And why do you think they don't have it anymore.... by your logic ranked pvp should not only still be here but should be booming. Which do you think the devs are chasing right now? Your logic or mine? so let me get this straight, if you could get two sets of armor (that you apparently like) a couple decos, a flag, a mount, by simply completing participation thresholds that you're doing right now, you wouldn't do it if there were also other things like flairs, different skins of the same mount, different armors that could only be attained by merit. yeah. I'm gonna call BS on that. but w/e. you seem to be under the impression that exclusive rewards preclude participation rewards. participation rewards are fine and good. it keeps the flood of ppl (such as yourself) bolstering the queues. exclusive rewards keep good players in the game and fosters the drive to get better. iunno why you think these things need to be mutually exclusive. I never once said get rid of participation trophies. I find it extremely difficult to believe that you wouldn't grind out participation trophies (assuming you like them) just because there are also skill-/merit- based rewards. Edited June 7, 2023 by krackcommando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Nee-Elder said: i'd say neither? --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929816-an-update-on-the-development-of-swtor/ Yep, it seems most BioWare Devs have more important things on their minds right now. Like, do they have to look for a new job or move to Virginia. I feel bad for them 😞 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said: I feel bad for them I don't. Musco and co brought this game to its knees. But yes, this whole conversation is pointless now. Edited June 7, 2023 by septru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whykara Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Nee-Elder said: i'd say neither? --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929816-an-update-on-the-development-of-swtor/ 3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said: Yep, it seems most BioWare Devs have more important things on their minds right now. Like, do they have to look for a new job or move to Virginia. I feel bad for them 😞 I'm really curious what the future will bring for PvP, now that BioWare has lost the game. I'm just gonna wait until the dust has settled and be on the lookout for a statement of either EA, BioWare or Broadsword. 3 minutes ago, septru said: this whole conversation is pointless now. I wouldn't go as far as that, let's just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 6 hours ago, krackcommando said: so let me get this straight, if you could get two sets of armor (that you apparently like) a couple decos, a flag, a mount, by simply completing participation thresholds that you're doing right now, you wouldn't do it if there were also other things like flairs, different skins of the same mount, different armors that could only be attained by merit. yeah. I'm gonna call BS on that. but w/e. you seem to be under the impression that exclusive rewards preclude participation rewards. participation rewards are fine and good. it keeps the flood of ppl (such as yourself) bolstering the queues. exclusive rewards keep good players in the game and fosters the drive to get better. iunno why you think these things need to be mutually exclusive. I never once said get rid of participation trophies. I find it extremely difficult to believe that you wouldn't grind out participation trophies (assuming you like them) just because there are also skill-/merit- based rewards. If something is gated then yes I wouldn't do it? Why do you think i am all of a sudden doing pvp?? It's not rocket science if they set the bar to the point where if you absolutely have to be good or better at pvp to get exclusive rewards I would leave. I put in my time and deal with toxic aholes only because I can get something out of it. But if I have to do all that and also get so close to getting items only to find that I am not skilled enough to get them. I'd stop playing. There are limits to everybody's skill level. Not everyone can get the gold. Give rewards to skilled player but not exclusive cosmetic rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 15 minutes ago, Xedry said: If something is gated then yes I wouldn't do it? Why do you think i am all of a sudden doing pvp?? It's not rocket science if they set the bar to the point where if you absolutely have to be good or better at pvp to get exclusive rewards I would leave. I put in my time and deal with toxic aholes only because I can get something out of it. But if I have to do all that and also get so close to getting items only to find that I am not skilled enough to get them. I'd stop playing. There are limits to everybody's skill level. Not everyone can get the gold. Give rewards to skilled player but not exclusive cosmetic rewards. nothing you said there makes any kind of sense. you're saying you would not do exactly what you're doing to get exactly the prizes you're getting, simply because there are other, additional prizes, that you cannot get because you're not good enough to get them? B. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Just now, krackcommando said: nothing you said there makes any kind of sense. you're saying you would not do exactly what you're doing to get exactly the prizes you're getting, simply because there are other, additional prizes, that you cannot get because you're not good enough to get them? B. S. Not b.s. you are not me, don't pretend you are I didn't pvp until these new seasons. That's not bs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Xedry said: Not b.s. you are not me, don't pretend you are I didn't pvp until these new seasons. That's not bs lol. you don't understand what I'm saying. that's the only possible reason for this. really. it hast to be. this stuff was never offered before this season. but just to be clear, what you're saying is that if pvp was broken into tiers, let's say 1st (best), 2nd, 3rd, and everybody else 1st gets something special 2nd gets something special 3rd gets something special everyone else get's nothing special but they can "grind" their way to (e.g.) a set of pvp armor (that isn't exactly what any of the top 3 tiers got). you're saying you would not grind out the grindable gear (assuming it looked good and you liked it) because it's possible for other people to get gear because they earned it by being better than you. not pissing on you or trolling you...just being better? that would prevent you from grinding out the gear you could get? I mean. ok. I'm not you. please confirm this one more time. I know it's asking a lot. I really cannot fathom it. humor me, please. Edited June 7, 2023 by krackcommando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, krackcommando said: lol. you don't understand what I'm saying. that's the only possible reason for this. really. it hast to be. this stuff was never offered before. but just to be clear, what you're saying is that if pvp was broken into tiers, let's say 1st (best), 2nd, 3rd, and everybody else 1st gets something special 2nd gets something special 3rd gets something special everyone else get's nothing special but they can "grind" their way to (e.g.) a set of pvp armor (that isn't exactly what any of the top 3 tiers got). you're saying you would not grind out the grindable gear (assuming it looked good and you liked it) because it's possible for other people to get gear because they earned it by being better than you. not pissing on you or trolling you...just being better? that would prevent you from grinding out the gear you could get? I mean. ok. I'm not you. please confirm this one more time. I know it's asking a lot. I really cannot fathom it. humor me, please. Depends is it all re-color armor each tier or is it separate cosmetics? If it is separate cosmetics I'd leave. If it is the same but different colors then I'd stay. I don't enjoy pvp that has been established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaMist Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Xedry said: Depends is it all re-color armor each tier or is it separate cosmetics? If it is separate cosmetics I'd leave. If it is the same but different colors then I'd stay. I don't enjoy pvp that has been established. Entitlement is strong with this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, VegaMist said: Entitlement is strong with this one. Not entitlement, if it is a mode I hate and the stuff is gated I'll just leave. Entitled would be staying and then whining about it. I am just stating what I would do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaMist Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Xedry said: Not entitlement, if it is a mode I hate and the stuff is gated I'll just leave. Entitled would be staying and then whining about it. I am just stating what I would do. It's OK to hate the mode. It's weird to make demands regarding the rewards from the mode you hate. There are plenty of people who love the said mode and exceed in it. It would be nice if their efforts were rewarded at a higher scale than those who grudgingly grind through it. Yet you are stomping your feet over it (not even it's happening, but a mere proposal) - that's entitlement. Edited June 7, 2023 by VegaMist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 minute ago, VegaMist said: It's OK to hate the mode. It's weird to make demands regarding the rewards from the mode you hate. There are plenty of people who love the said mode and exceed in it. It would be nice if their efforts were rewarded at a higher scale than those who grudgingly grind through it. Yet you are stomping your feet over it (not even it's happening, but a mere proposal) - that's entitlement. Read my all my posts again please... I'm getting so tired of repeating myself. I have said it numerous times. Skilled players SHOULD be rewarded. I even said they should get gear fully modded or it upgrades it self and that the participants should just get empty shells of the gear. However krack said that if there was gated things behind pvp that me leaving doesn't make sense. If I cannot get something based on my skills why would I bother?? That's is not entitlement! I'm saying it not worth the effort for me. Can you tell the difference?? If not please tell me what part is not clear? Oh and just to remind you yes skill should be rewarded but I'm sure I'll have to remind you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krackcommando Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Xedry said: However krack said that if there was gated things behind pvp that me leaving doesn't make sense. If I cannot get something based on my skills why would I bother?? because you still want the stuff that you can get by grinding? edit: don't get me wrong. i understand you not playing if it's something you think you can't get. I understand you not grinding if you don't like the stuff you can get by grinding. I don't understand you not grinding the stuff you do want and can get by grinding just because other ppl can get stuff that you cannot (whether you want that other stuff or not) Edited June 7, 2023 by krackcommando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedry Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, krackcommando said: because you still want the stuff that you can get by grinding? edit: don't get me wrong. i understand you not playing if it's something you think you can't get. I understand you not grinding if you don't like the stuff you can get by grinding. I don't understand you not grinding the stuff you do want and can get by grinding just because other ppl can get stuff that you cannot (whether you want that other stuff or not) It's more like I see pvp going back to the old way it was. You had to win to get gear they provide. Nothing inherently wrong with that but basically come down to why bother imo I'm not a pvper, I'm not top 10٪ and my mindset is kind of on arena where I die so fast I don't even earn medals. I suppose WZ is different cause I can win those with a decent team. But again you still get rewarded for being a skilled player here. You get through the pvp seasons faster, you get through the weekly faster, and when your done with that you can still pvp. My reward for being here is wasting my time, dealing with negativity and finally when I get my 1,000 points I get a respite from pvp till next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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