PTS: GSF added to PvP Season 3 track

[AlkarMBar]

I think this debate proves our point: GSF is at the same level as ground PVP and we deserve a space!

We have the same arguments!!

[DakhathKilrathi]

4 minutes ago, AlkarMBar said:

I think this debate proves our point: GSF is at the same level as ground PVP and we deserve a space!

We have the same arguments!!

You might be onto something there. Maybe we should break out the good old arguments about premades and matchmaking too. Afraid we can't complain about the toxicity quite so much, but I'm willing to pretend if it means we get consideration.

[Urthal]

5 hours ago, sithBracer said:

A fully geared gunship is the most OP thing in this entire game.

I respectfully disagree, but I can definitely understand why it would seem that way. Now, I personally think the game would actually be better without gunships (Or more specifically, railguns. But without railguns, what's left for gunships? Missile specialists? There's some big overlap with two of the strikes there). I don't think the whole sniper archetype (Slow, accurate, heavy hitting, long range attacks) leads to fun gameplay. That said, they are already in the game, so we'll just have to deal with them. Thing is, gunships have a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling. It's easy to get a few kills with a railgun, but it's very hard to top the meters with one. They just lack the toughness and mobility to survive in the chaos of battle. It takes an extremely skilled pilot to survive being focused while flying a gunship.

I prefer the dogfighting aspect of the game, but will swap to a gunship if the situation calls for it, and it has taken me several years to not die instantly when a strike or scout wants to kill me. And yet they still do, quite often. If your team can't cover you, an up close scout or strike will out turn you and most likely kill you. So really, the worst thing you can do is ignore a gunship. If you do, yes, they would seem to be completely overpowered.

[AlkarMBar]

24 minutes ago, Urthal said:

I respectfully disagree, but I can definitely understand why it would seem that way. Now, I personally think the game would actually be better without gunships (Or more specifically, railguns. But without railguns, what's left for gunships? Missile specialists? There's some big overlap with two of the strikes there). I don't think the whole sniper archetype (Slow, accurate, heavy hitting, long range attacks) leads to fun gameplay. That said, they are already in the game, so we'll just have to deal with them. Thing is, gunships have a low skill floor but a high skill ceiling. It's easy to get a few kills with a railgun, but it's very hard to top the meters with one. They just lack the toughness and mobility to survive in the chaos of battle. It takes an extremely skilled pilot to survive being focused while flying a gunship.

I prefer the dogfighting aspect of the game, but will swap to a gunship if the situation calls for it, and it has taken me several years to not die instantly when a strike or scout wants to kill me. And yet they still do, quite often. If your team can't cover you, an up close scout or strike will out turn you and most likely kill you. So really, the worst thing you can do is ignore a gunship. If you do, yes, they would seem to be completely overpowered.

I agree 100% with this post.

I also prefer dogfighting to gunships. Lately I'm playing with them to get the achievements and I'm noticing the same: it's easy to get a few kills, but it's hard to top the scoreboard.

[juanmf]

"UwU one ship bad to me. Whole game mode bad".

That's the most underground argument I've seen about GSF so far I mean come on, in every DM there will be at least one guy (usually me if I'm in it) who would chase gunships around and make it a painf or them to sit down and snipe people.

It's amusing seeing the PvPers coming out of their toxic swamp to cry here as much as they do in tehir own section of the forum about how people are ruining their game mode because they actually play it the way it was intended to be played instead of going for FAT YELLOW NUMBERS.
 

7 hours ago, sithBracer said:

A fully geared gunship is the most OP thing in this entire game.

Thank you for confirming you have never touched GSF for more than 5 minutes. We value your opinion about this topic.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by juanmf

[AwesomeTacoCat]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:39 AM, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

Wait…what? You actually listened to players for once? Holy sh*tballs Batman it’s a miracle! Way to go. 

[Kazjan]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:20 PM, JackieKo said:

With Season 3, we will be adding GSF to the weekly objectives for the PvP Seasons track. The team would like to know what would be a sufficient amount of medals to earn that would satisfy the weekly objective requirement. We have a couple of numbers in mind, but we wanted to throw the question to all of you and get your insight before the change goes live. 

Let us know your thoughts! 

EDIT: Adding for clarification that this will only be a weekly Subscriber objective. 

@JackieKo Don't add something you guys haven't updated or even added any development content since it has came out. This is not going to get your off the hook for ignoring the GSF community for that past 5 years.  This whole SWTOR team should be ashamed.

When was the last ship added to GSF?

When was the last map added to GSF?

When are you going to fix the bug for GSF?

Get real you don't care about GSF and added to the PVP track is not going to get you off the hook.  You want to know how many medals should count..  

[Stradlin]

18 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

@JackieKo Don't add something you guys haven't updated or even added any development content since it has came out. This is not going to get your off the hook for ignoring the GSF community for that past 5 years. 

Don't worry, after keeping this thread up for two days or so, they "thanked for the  feedback" and  went right back to ignoring GSF again. I assume you prefer it this way then?

It is extremely disappointing how determined BW is to keep ignoring GSF.  Only element in game designed purely for  pvp gets excluded from seasonal pvp content. That  reads like a joke.

It is  also incredibly counterproductive: like all pvp content, GSF comes with insane amount of longevity.  I'd think everything with lasting appeal would be wise to underline and highlight in an mmo that has reached...less than super active big budget phase of its devving cycle.

GSF has been in a very good place  in terms of balance ever since the huge patch it got around KOTET's release. Makes this all the more tragic. What on earth about GSF  makes it unsuitable for anything that even  lowbie Warzones qualifies? 

[Kazjan]

6 hours ago, Stradlin said:

Don't worry, after keeping this thread up for two days or so, they "thanked for the  feedback" and  went right back to ignoring GSF again. I assume you prefer it this way then?

Yes, I mean I rather them say nothing then make that disgusting post they just made about adding it to season.  Everyone knows why they decided to kill GSF is because they wanted that Squadron to do well.... wait... let me think oh yeah that game failed hard.  The only reason why we got GSF is because of the backlash it got for that flying on rails system they added to the game.  

Just like they killed Open world PVP they should do the same with GSF and stop providing false hope when they know they can't touch it due to Squadron's being release. 

[Stradlin]

20 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

You guys aren't even arguing the same point anymore. 

Are gunships OP? 

lol no but if people think they are it means more free kills for me so keep pushing that angle I guess

Seriously though, no. Most of my top games are in a scout or a strike, and gunships are my favorite target to evaporate. They stop for you! Most of them only land like 30% of their shots! A bunch of them even run fortress shield so they just sit there and eat a ton of free hull damage from shield piercing. It's great. Here's a recent example where 2/3 of the other team was gunships. They melted.

I think you'll find that most of the best players in the game are not in a gunship as much as they are strikes, and there's a reason for that. Can I have the same kind of performance in a gunship? Yeah, sure, but it's harder to play as a solo carry ship outside of very specific circumstances in the current meta so I don't gravitate toward it nearly as much as I did pre-5.5. 

 

Top ace pilot in a GS can prolly have a larger impact than a top ace in a strike. However, to pull this "larger impact"  off the ace level pilot typically needs a competent team as a buffer around him. Preferably the entire  team around the top ace pilot needs to be bit better or at the very least equally good as the opposing team. Top ace gunship being chased  does no damage. Gunship is much needier and more of a diva when it comes to requirements it has for the team around him.  Meanwhile, Strikefighter  prolly has a bit smaller potential overall impact, but  can do great no matter the teams around him.

It is much, much easier to be an excellent strikefighter pilot than it is to be an excellent  gunship pilot. It is easier to do well in strikefighters. No ship has as few " oof this is utterly wrong place, wrong time in a wrong ship" - situations as strike does.  Per OG dev commentaries, Strikes were always meant to be the bread and the butter, ship of the line type of a thing and by the time that huge KOTET era patch landed, they  finally  succeeded it in. Obv strikes aren't without weakness, very easy to hit for Gunships if flying in the open def fits their description too. And I think skill ceiling of strike hits sooner than on GS or scout. Ie if best pilot in the world is on a strike, opposing team has bit less headache than they would, were the said pilot in a GS or in a Sting/FF.

...So truly, some straightforward "ship x is imba" argument is a very tricky thing to be had. It depends on the match&team compositions, the players, ships the best pilots on opposing side fly with..ie balance is pretty much  just as it should be. 

This thread was created, unstickied and abandoned by devs in TWO DAYS?? Seriouisly, what happened? Did they actually read any feedback? If they didn't  want any feedback, why even make this thread? If they did want feedback, why cut the process short before it even began in jsut two days?Did they take feedback on GSF from ground pvp community or something? It'd be swell to get little bit of dialogue going and answers, and even vague promises of future..assuming there even is one for GSF as a component.

What on earth about GSF is so flimsy that it doesn't qualify a reward track that even lowbie warzones was deemed suitable? Again, I'd argue it is most balanced way to do pvp in entire TOR.  If we get all boring and objective, at the very least nobody can deny GSF has the  greatest potential for truly balanced pvp: Absolutely  nothing about GSF needs to worry about PvE balance at all, such worries is something that always muddies the waters when pursuing balance in ground pvp.

 

 

 

Little bit of GSF humor to shine a light in this darkness.

Why wasn't Rycer pilot doing his damn job guarding the satelite?? 

 - He was on  strike!!! :;D

Thank you, thank you all. I'm here all night. Anyone here from Ord Mantell?

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Stradlin

[commanderwar]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:39 AM, BryantWood said:

Hey everyone, thanks for your feedback regarding the addition of Galactic Starfighter to the PvP Season track! The team has taken a look at the issues you’ve raised surrounding the current state of Galactic Starfighter such as the medals, objectives, skill gap, and bugs. After evaluating this feedback we’ve come to the conclusion that GSF is not in a good position to be added to the PvP Seasons track at this time.

Thank you again for your constructive feedback regarding this change! We will continue to monitor PvP Seasons and your feedback to improve PvP Seasons going forward.

@EricMusco  @BryantWood

This needs to be said, how come you had no idea of the state of GSF good or bad before this. The game mode is on the same importance of PVP and people have brought the issues up before in the forums. Are you not checking the GSF forums? Does no one in the team play GSF? This is a red flag for any gaming company to have no idea of the state of an entire game mode.  But why is it okay to just shove off the dedicated playerbase. GSF has not been touch in almost eight years, and apparently not a single dev cares to read anything about it.

So what now, are we just suppose to wait until you finally give GSF something or address anything with it? It's hard enough to get you to address other problems in other game modes.  I have read recently that the R4 operation is still riddle with bugs that make it unplayable (such as the player's health bar appearing dead to others when there alive bug) to this day almost a year later, so what are the changes any of the gsf problems get fix, even the minor ones? Not good I imagine.

Again what a terrible way to treat your playerbase. You create a thread, get the GSF players happy, then two days later you write them off, with no apology written of the bad handling of this whole situation.

You know what the worse part is? That the players just asked if you could fix the visual bug with medals on the scoreboard.

Edited May 15, 2023 by commanderwar

[juanmf]

On 5/14/2023 at 11:39 AM, Stradlin said:

Little bit of GSF humor to shine a light in this darkness.

Why wasn't Rycer pilot doing his damn job guarding the satelite?? 

 - He was on  strike!!! :;D

Thank you, thank you all. I'm here all night. Anyone here from Ord Mantell?

 

We should be legally allowed to shoot you down.

[Kazjan]

6 hours ago, commanderwar said:

@EricMusco  @BryantWood

This needs to be said, how come you had no idea of the state of GSF good or bad before this. The game mode is on the same importance of PVP and people have brought the issues up before in the forums. Are you not checking the GSF forums? Does no one in the team play GSF? This is a red flag for any gaming company to have no idea of the state of an entire game mode.  But why is it okay to just shove off the dedicated playerbase. GSF has not been touch in almost eight years, and apparently not a single dev cares to read anything about it.

So what now, are we just suppose to wait until you finally give GSF something or address anything with it? It's hard enough to get you to address other problems in other game modes.  I have read recently that the R4 operation is still riddle with bugs that make it unplayable (such as the player's health bar appearing dead to others when there alive bug) to this day almost a year later, so what are the changes any of the gsf problems get fix, even the minor ones? Not good I imagine.

Again what a terrible way to treat your playerbase. You create a thread, get the GSF players happy, then two days later you write them off, with no apology written of the bad handling of this whole situation.

You know what the worse part is? That the players just asked if you could fix the visual bug with medals on the scoreboard.

Well Said... 100% Support

[Stradlin]

21 hours ago, commanderwar said:

@EricMusco  @BryantWood

This needs to be said, how come you had no idea of the state of GSF good or bad before this. The game mode is on the same importance of PVP and people have brought the issues up before in the forums. Are you not checking the GSF forums? Does no one in the team play GSF? This is a red flag for any gaming company to have no idea of the state of an entire game mode.  But why is it okay to just shove off the dedicated playerbase. GSF has not been touch in almost eight years, and apparently not a single dev cares to read anything about it.

So what now, are we just suppose to wait until you finally give GSF something or address anything with it? It's hard enough to get you to address other problems in other game modes.  I have read recently that the R4 operation is still riddle with bugs that make it unplayable (such as the player's health bar appearing dead to others when there alive bug) to this day almost a year later, so what are the changes any of the gsf problems get fix, even the minor ones? Not good I imagine.

Again what a terrible way to treat your playerbase. You create a thread, get the GSF players happy, then two days later you write them off, with no apology written of the bad handling of this whole situation.

You know what the worse part is? That the players just asked if you could fix the visual bug with medals on the scoreboard.

Tragedy and irony here  is that GSF, as a whole, is in an  excellent and very balanced state. Been that way for years. The very few bugs it does have do  nothlng to this big picture.  I think people who know/like GSF generally speaking agree with this.

 

Did devs truly abandon the whole idea because somebody told them GSF has a few bugs?

Error with displaying medals is just that-they don't get displayed  on the  scoreboard correctly. They still get counted correctly when it comes to seasons or conquest objectives, achievements etc! It is an absolute non issue when it comes to the big picture. Scoreboard of the ground pvp is much more messed up atm. So maybe ground pvp should be removed from seasonal pvp as well? 

 

@juanmf

Why did a new pilot wrap the thrusters of his ship in flannel shirt, bandanna and don a big wig of authentic 80's rockstar hair on top of it? 

-People kept saying he should use retro thrusters!

Edited May 16, 2023 by Stradlin

[Lord_Janosch]

4 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Tragedy and irony here  is that GSF, as a whole, is in an  excellent and very balanced state. The very few bugs it does have does nothlng to this big picture.  I think people who know/like GSF generally speaking agree with this.

 

Did devs truly abandon the whole idea because somebody told them GSF has a few bugs?

Error with displaying medals is just that-they don't get displayed  on scoreboard correctly. They still get counted correctly when it comes to seasons or conquest objectives, achievements etc! It is an absolute non issue when it comes to the big picture. Scoreboard of the ground pvp is much more messed up atm. So maybe ground pvp should be removed from seasonal pvp as well? 

100% agree. GSF is in a good state despite getting any attention by the devs (or that's the reason  ). It would be so cool to get a season for GSF. And as Strad said, it's a visual-only bug regarding the medals.

Devs, please think about adding GSF to PVP season (only optional, so that ground pvp'ers aren't pissed).

[Kazjan]

10 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Did devs truly abandon the whole idea because somebody told them GSF has a few bugs?

Error with displaying medals is just that-they don't get displayed  on the  scoreboard correctly. They still get counted correctly when it comes to seasons or conquest objectives, achievements etc! It is an absolute non issue when it comes to the big picture. Scoreboard of the ground pvp is much more messed up atm. So maybe ground pvp should be removed from seasonal pvp as well? 

Sorta, They abandon the idea because people called them out on how deluded they have been with GSF development since it was release. Last Update Content for the system was about 2016 (could be wrong I'll look the date later and edit it in) People are frustrated because they have been providing feedback for years in the GSF forums and have been ignored by the development team. 

They forget they have many other game modes in the game that require their attention. They could clearly add GSF to the PVP development cycle they just choose not too.  Just like they can add Uprising to the FP Development cycle.

[Stradlin]

13 minutes ago, Kazjan said:

Sorta, They abandon the idea because people called them out on how deluded they have been with GSF development since it was release. Last Update Content for the system was about 2016 (could be wrong I'll look the date later and edit it in) People are frustrated because they have been providing feedback for years in the GSF forums and have been ignored by the development team. 

They forget they have many other game modes in the game that require their attention. They could clearly add GSF to the PVP development cycle they just choose not too.  Just like they can add Uprising to the FP Development cycle.

 

Last major update to GSF came a bit after the launch of KOTET. That is the patch which made almost all of the ships genuinely useful, up until then things revolved too much around t2 scout, t1 gs and beacon bomber.

I'd personally feel bit alarmed if I heard they were planning on a brand new ship type etc -overall game balance reallly is in great stage, and seeing some stealth ship upsetting the balance is bit too easy to imagine. It could really use new maps,new game modes and extra fluff. Having a season of its own(or being part of pvp season) would be exactly that - genuinely needed additional fluff and purpose.

 

Seriously...how can they spend like two days to take feedback, then turn the lights off? 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Stradlin

[Kazjan]

2 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Seriously...how can they spend like two days to take feedback, then turn the lights off? 

Because they didn't really want feedback they thought by doing xyz would make them look like hero's but what they did was open the flood gates and so they hit the Just kidding button and took it all away. 

[juanmf]

23 hours ago, Stradlin said:

@juanmf

Why did a new pilot wrap the thrusters of his ship in flannel shirt, bandanna and don a big wig of authentic 80's rockstar hair on top of it? 

-People kept saying he should use retro thrusters!

He can't keep getting away with this!

[Stradlin]

4 hours ago, juanmf said:

He can't keep getting away with this!

Jokes will keep coming, til GSF gets some much deserved dev love. :l

 

Why did  Clarion get taken out?

 - It was the strike #3!

Thank you! Thank you all! *sips water from the water bottle  before the next one*

 

 

Often people talk about afkers in GSF, as if this were some unique-to-GSF issue. You will always have this aspect/annoyance to deal with,in every form of pvp.(or even multiplayer content in general) Draconian rules lessen it, but it will always be there to some degree. /shrug. Literally every single person here who has done any notable measure of ground pvp has seen a Hutball game, where other team stops playing once opponents manage an easy enough 2-0 or 3-0 lead. Or " guysss just let them win!" stuff on Voidstar map.  Or Alderaan map, where half the team gather to the single  turret team holds, just sitting the match out in literal fashion. Ofc GSF has this stuff too: ppl who half arse things one way or another.  They are kinda like literal NPCs you brush aside on your way towards the real fight. They're as likely to be on your team, as they are likely to be on enemy team, it isn't end of the world or some quarantee that matches become uneven. 

Much of the issue with half arse squadron would go away if game  rewarded decent performance and winning more, mere 0-0-0 participation less.

Come to think of it, I'm tempted to claim people do tons of GSF are kinda spoiled. Overall game balance in GSF is so good that annoyances like couple of afkers really stand out. Meanwhile, something like lowbie WZs(perfectly valid content for pvp season unlike GSF???) is bit of a mess all the time, with certain class/spec/gear combinations being borderline undefeatable by anyone except their mirror images.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Stradlin

[DakhathKilrathi]

Well, it's been a week. The quiet unpinning the topic was clear enough that we weren't getting a response, I guess, but I was hoping anyway. 

After a full week? Nah. They aren't addressing anything we said. Business as usual really. I'm still grateful for whatever dev attention we get, and I understand that we are not a priority, but wow stuff like this makes it harder. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by DakhathKilrathi

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

Well, it's been a week. The quiet unpinning the topic was clear enough that we weren't getting a response, I guess, but I was hoping anyway. 

After a full week? Nah. They aren't addressing anything we said. Business as usual really. I'm still grateful for whatever dev attention we get, and I understand that we are not a priority, but wow stuff like this makes it harder. 

I'm way too stubborn to give up yet. I just refuse to believe my eyes when thread asking for feedback thanks for the feedback and closes the shop TWO DAYS LATER.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Stradlin

[DakhathKilrathi]

14 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

I'm way too stubborn to give up yet. I just refuse to believe my eyes when thread asking for feedback thanks for the feedback TWO DAYS LATER.

That's why I don't think it's happening. The "lol sorry nvm" happened pretty fast, so we know they can reply quickly.

[Stradlin]

1 hour ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

That's why I don't think it's happening. The "lol sorry nvm" happened pretty fast, so we know they can reply quickly.

I wonder what on earth it was, that made them step back so quickly. I know BryantWood gave some sort of outline, but all of the things he listed read like alien language to anyone who knows GSF.

"we were gonna do it, but medals and gaps!"
"????????"

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Stradlin

[DakhathKilrathi]

Just now, Stradlin said:

I wonder what on earth it was, that made them step back so quickly. I know BryantWood gave some sort of outline, but all of the things he listed read like alien language to anyone who knows GSF.

"we were gonna do it, but medals!"
"????????"

 

Yeah. It's still baffling. None of the reasons given make any sense at all and the more I think it over the less sense it makes. I was hoping to get clarification, because I do understand that they're not doing it for no reason at all. I know we're not owed that, but again, the way this thread went just feels pretty bad.