Class Balance Changes Feedback

[Aethyriel]

3 minutes ago, Sikssix said:

Even though it's 2K DPS difference between traditional and this, I believe this may work. 

except it won't. You're losing way too much giving up rupture, especially multitarget DPS. There is just no reason to gimp yourself playing with a skill that is so utterly dumb in its design one has to wonder how any dev could just let it still be there instead of deleting it out of pure shame. You're losing dps both ST and AOE and gain nothing in return. Idk what more you could possibly find out?

[Sikssix]

3 minutes ago, Aethyriel said:

except it won't. You're losing way too much giving up rupture, especially multitarget DPS. There is just no reason to gimp yourself playing with a skill that is so utterly dumb in its design one has to wonder how any dev could just let it still be there instead of deleting it out of pure shame. You're losing dps both ST and AOE and gain nothing in return. Idk what more you could possibly find out?

I have already tested it on live, as well as PTS. This set up is not ideal in the slightest for multi-target, but instead just focus target.  With the upcoming changes, the nerfs will make this ability even more useless since it did worse on the PTS.  I will report back after tonight's run.  I don't have any hope that it will do great, but I don't mind taking the time to test it.  

Edited November 16, 2022 by Sikssix

[MaximusRex]

• How does the adjusted threat and damage output of tank classes feel?

It's hard to tell on test because it is hard to do comparable content.  Tanks should do 60-70% of DPS damage to make them not boring to play.  This is still a huge enough gap to make DPS valuable in their role.

• Darkness Assassin and Annihilation Marauder’s rotations have been smoothed out, does this feel better or worse than 7.0?

N/A to my gameplay

• The Ward of the Continuum tactical has been redesigned to synergize better with Darkness Assassin mod choices. Have you tried it? What do you think?

N/A to my gameplay

• What are your impressions of the redesigned Annihilation mod choices?

N/A to my gameplay

• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVE?

We can still do our job, but 7.0 class revamps really took all the fun and niche utility out of it for me as an Immortal Jugg.  AOE tanking and movement have been made worse, having to pick between Saber Reflect, a very important threat tool especially now that AoE threat has been weakend, and Mad Dash, a niche movement boost and defensive CD seems just strange.  It feels like the goal with the 7.0 class revamps was to force square pegs in round holes instead of actually trying to make fun and engaging gameplay.  You made threat drops and class raid buffs tree choices when they should be baseline.  It just feels like a massive disconnect.

• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVP?

Tanks can feel really useful, or too squishy for their damage output.

• What do you feel tanks are missing in PVP or PVE?

As a Jugg tank I feel my AOE damage and threat are terrible, the AOEs I have are weak and/or have terrible cones or area affected.  My on demand speed boost was taken away which has made movement much worse.

• What are things you would like to see in the future for tanks?

Some cooler looking abilities, I'd love for a large threat generating AOE to hit ranged mobs, like Vader throwing consoles at Luke in ESB, or a mass force pull to my target that grabs everything in 30 yards of it.  You stole all the Jugg's abilities from boring WoW warrior, you should have stolen them from the WoW Deathknight.

• What are your impressions on the itemizations around tanks?

Jugg items seem pretty good, I am not familiar enough with the other classes to have an opinion.  

• Would you like to see additional achievements added on a bi-seasonal or seasonal basis?

Depends on how difficult they are to get.

• Do achievements motivate you to play more PVP?

Reasonable ones might, but ones that feel unobtainable do not.

• Do you feel medals should be easier or harder to achieve?

Seems about right.

• What actions in PVP would you like to see represented in medals?

Playing to objectives

 

[codydmaan]

On 11/15/2022 at 4:49 PM, Sikssix said:

Are you fine with the changes coming 7.2?  I am going to simply state, I am aware my input and my concerns will be heard/read, but I am also aware that won't change anything.  I am sure they have reasons, however, those reasons can be either good or bad, which this case, it's pretty poor.  For some reason I keep reading this as you supporting their choice, but that is not what I am assuming.  Some of the changes are a bit extreme and they have yet to provide any data on their changes as of this post here.  What I do hope is they would consider and further communicate with us and test with us on the PTS to find the perfect median for everyone to be happy.

I dont like these changes at all either. Especially the pvp updates their really bad. Most everyone seems to agree their bad as well. 

 

They see our detailed responses of why their ideas are not good. Not just o I hate this baseless responses. People have reasons why their ideas are bad and their right. Especially with pvp and mara changes. 

It's really sad to see the state of the game now. Been here 11 ish years. It's not managed the same as it has in the past.

 

Please devs, 🙏 put a concerted effort to make the game better and the players happy. Your here for us, we're your customers, we buy the subscription.

[Sikssix]

21 hours ago, codydmaan said:

I dont like these changes at all either. Especially the pvp updates their really bad. Most everyone seems to agree their bad as well. 

 

They see our detailed responses of why their ideas are not good. Not just o I hate this baseless responses. People have reasons why their ideas are bad and their right. Especially with pvp and mara changes. 

It's really sad to see the state of the game now. Been here 11 ish years. It's not managed the same as it has in the past.

 

Please devs, 🙏 put a concerted effort to make the game better and the players happy. Your here for us, we're your customers, we buy the subscription.

It seems like this is what they want.  I am considering of unsubbing not just because of the nerfs, but the way they are running the whole game to the ground.  The Ranked PVP ordeal I can understand and honestly, I support.  I did it once and my god the amount of death threats I was given on forums AND on game was unreal.  All because it was my first time doing it, and I was running with Accuracy at the time.  The win trading was real bad too.  The PTS from what I learned basically is:
"Here you guys go, this is what the changes are going to be, we will let players find what is broken, nerfed, and the flavor of the patch is, we won't fix it, we won't listen, so enjoy!  PS:  We will tell you this information, mislead about it, then that information is completely false."
I am not here to bash on BW or the community.  I am speculating and reporting what I am seeing.  If you watched the livestream, and I hate to throw names under buses, however it has to be done, Jackie seemed real estactic to do the livestream (speculated by a few players I talk to), while the others were not wanting to be there, exhausted, burned out, just simply did not want to be there.  I am not sure what everyone's position is, or what happens in the background of the development of this game, I do hope they all are able to get past their struggles, at the same time, to cure their cranial rectitus disease.

 

[DougTheNoob]

A pvp related question :

Will there be any changes to how roots and slows works? 

Will madness sorcs be able to perma slow ,and root very often in 7.2 ?

And will AP PT have all the cc they currently do ? 

There are fights u cant move for half the time.No wonder half the teams nowdays in regs are madness sorcs.Even in ranked they are everywhere! lol

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by DougTheNoob

[ZUHFB]

The last thing I want to see is balancing to PvP. With ranked gone who cares about PvP balancing? The only positive thing is that PvE balancing is the only factor to think about now.

[sGroggy]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

With ranked gone who cares about PvP balancing?

The more I read your replies, the more I'm suspecting you to be a troll.

The non-marginal amount of people that still like to PVP, albeit non-ranked.

[ZUHFB]

7 hours ago, sGroggy said:

The more I read your replies, the more I'm suspecting you to be a troll.

The non-marginal amount of people that still like to PVP, albeit non-ranked.

So? In regs any class can be good, I'd rather have zero pvp balancing now (oh wait, was already the case) and better pve balancing with more classes being viable and what do we get? Buffed anni healing... GG lmao

To be honest I get the same feeling from the devs that you get from me

[sGroggy]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

To be honest I get the same feeling from the devs that you get from me

That's something I think we can both agree on.

[Ardarell_Solo]

The state of Watchman on live and PTS are a typical consequence when a rotation has been made too long and therefore too filler heavy. Instead of streamlining the core rotation they are now desperately trying to do something with filler abilities in the talent tree system. However, that way you just don't end up with smooth rotation that has a reasonable skill to effectiveness curve.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Ardarell_Solo

[steveerkcanjerk]

I think these changes seems a bit rough, but I see alot of Lightning, AP, and Arsenal unviable cant be used in nim content. But this kind of stance to justify your positions isn't entirely accurate. For example I am an Arsenal main. I have cleared majority of the NiM content in 7.0 as arsenal especially with the irating 340 gear release. But guess what none of us post to parsely when we clear, or put up our parses because there isn't a point for alot of us. Like we aren't gonna be top dps as ranged burst so its not really a big deal and the reality is there are plenty of people who like those specs and still clear with them. Are there fights where things get rough sure, like IC-PT as arsenal is rough mostly because casting is hell on that fight. If you play in a group where everyone must bring the absolute most optimized stuff I mean yeah everything will seem like trash that isn't a top tier parser. As someone who also plays AP (i like bounty hunter what can i say) I am still able to clear content with it. Looking at these changes, and based off feedback I don't think its going to be the end of the world. If you are even half descent at the class you will be fine. But I bet the devs see lightning, AP, Arsenal, even Marksmen crossing the finish line in groups. So that data everyone keep referring to is not really helpful when 90% of the playerbase doesn't even post in there. Also a dev opens up dialogue and the snapping and horrible comments that get posted immediately makes you wonder gee why don't they talk more. Not saying everyone was a jerk about it, but there were plenty who were. And then the devs gave enough reasoning and first reaction is f-u like come on. But this happens in every mmo at this point. 

[Phkrm]

Greetings, one quick questions, am wondering if one is able to create a new character for this PTS and then go to a machine or a bot and get a level boost to test out the new content? Also this is just based of my starting a new Character on Koriban

• How does the adjusted threat and damage output of tank classes feel?
  • Could be my old machine but it seems a little off. Don't seem to hold agro in pve.
• Darkness Assassin and Annihilation Marauder’s rotations have been smoothed out, does this feel better or worse than 7.0?
  • Again here too could be because of my machine but it does not seem as simple.
• The Ward of the Continuum tactical has been redesigned to synergism better with Darkness Assassin mod choices. Have you tried it? What do you think?
  • Have not found were to pick this up at. But will continue to look.
• What are your impressions of the redesigned Annihilation mod choices?
  • Will have to go over it when at a higher level.
• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVE?
  • PVE does not seem difficult, but it is challenging.
• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVP?
  • Do not part take in PVP.
• What do you feel tanks are missing in PVP or PVE?
  • PVE could always use more content and story material. Maybe revisit some of the npcs we have interacted with in the past. Could bring about a more immersive and rounding out of individual story lines.
• What are things you would like to see in the future for tanks?
  • the ability to while playing utilize force attacks while attacking with the saber.
• What are your impressions on the itemization around tanks?
  • Not bad currently but will run it again when I have my new computer up and running.
• Medals and Achievements for PVP
• Would you like to see additional achievements added on a bi-seasonal or seasonal basis?
  • There are already so many achievements to keep track of.
• Do achievements motivate you to play more PVP?
  • Have never cared for PVP.
• Do you feel medals should be easier or harder to achieve?
• What actions in PVP would you like to see represented in medals?

[Nee-Elder]

5 minutes ago, Phkrm said:

 one quick questions, am wondering if one is able to create a new character for this PTS and then go to a machine or a bot and get a level boost to test out the new content?

See  this sticky thread:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/868200-getting-started-on-the-pts  ... in which case you should just be able to  copy  over your existing LIVE server character.

Unless you don't have a  Level 80  character yet at all ?   Either way, be sure to also see this other sticky thread before you do anything:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/868201-important-do-not-use-outlander-start-at-level-6065-tokens-on-pts

[xxSHOONYxx]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

How does the adjusted threat and damage output of tank classes feel?

Never saw the threat and damge output to be an issue before

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

Darkness Assassin and Annihilation Marauder’s rotations have been smoothed out, does this feel better or worse than 7.0?

Annahilation's rotation right now i'd say is more cluncky than in 7.1

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

The Ward of the Continuum tactical has been redesigned to synergize better with Darkness Assassin mod choices. Have you tried it? What do you think?

I don't see myself using a different tactical than two cloaks or guard shroud for assassin. 

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

What are your impressions of the redesigned Annihilation mod choices?

I think they miss the mark, you aim to diversify mod choices but ultimately more likely than not there will be one path set in stone like for most classes, when i have to change utilites now i change them when i need an utility like stun not for niche utlity that is barely noticable. The only class i can think of that totally changes the class is juggernaut shatter burst with cut to pieces, that thing to this day is still totaly broken and totally excludes other classes that are good at aoe.
x4 damage rend was a burst-ish attack, but if a fight actually had a tight damage check annahilation would not be used, fury or carange would be used. 

You say annahilation was slightly overperforming in damage when the game philosophy of this game has been to make dot melee specs top damage on single target because of how dotting and target swapping works. Is your melee dot dps target around the 32k to be somewhat on par with pyro and vengeance? Then why are 10 specs that do more single target damage than them, ranged and burst specs included? If your philosophy for damage chart changed on this patch or you count utility as "more dps" you need to communicate it or your changes will never make sense to people. Because right now with what was previously stated about the  dps target of melee dot > melee burst = ranged dot > ranged burst, at least from my perspective it makes me doubt why the dev teams thinks annahilation was such a popular class, or why other classes are picked over the less popular ones, which is not the damage they do. Without that information most of the playerbase thinks you have no idea of the game you are trying to balance. Your numbers or algorithms might tell you a story, but that won't be a full story until you excel at that class you want to change to know exactly what needs to change 

Fury changes on the other hand make me speechless, why give that class more damage? was 35k not enough? Was that intended or a mistake on how the previous nerf you tried to do to fury made no changes on its dps and it just made the class easier to play?

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVE?

It was already good.

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVP?

Shieldtech was above the rest by the little pvp i do for galactic seasons.

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

What do you feel tanks are missing in PVP or PVE?

Nothing i can think of. 

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

What are things you would like to see in the future for tanks?

Can't think of anything that is needed.

On 11/10/2022 at 1:31 PM, JackieKo said:

What are your impressions on the itemizations around tanks?

That they don't matter, or don't matter as much as dps crit alacrity and accuracy do. Tanking relies more about the dcd useage than some abosrb shield defense stats.

 

[MASTERDMANISEPIC]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:31 AM, JackieKo said:

• How does the adjusted threat and damage output of tank classes feel?
• Darkness Assassin and Annihilation Marauder’s rotations have been smoothed out, does this feel better or worse than 7.0?
• The Ward of the Continuum tactical has been redesigned to synergize better with Darkness Assassin mod choices. Have you tried it? What do you think?
• What are your impressions of the redesigned Annihilation mod choices?
• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVE?
• How do you feel about the overall state of tanks in PVP?
• What do you feel tanks are missing in PVP or PVE?
• What are things you would like to see in the future for tanks?
• What are your impressions on the itemizations around tanks?
• Medals and Achievements for PVP
• Would you like to see additional achievements added on a bi-seasonal or seasonal basis?
• Do achievements motivate you to play more PVP?
• Do you feel medals should be easier or harder to achieve?
• What actions in PVP would you like to see represented in medals?
   

I wanted to quickly add some response to the 2nd and 4th bullet points based on some personal pts testing for Annihilation.  

After my initial read through of the Annihilation changes, I thought the changes were very interesting.  I agree with the direction you guys are going, but I don't believe the numbers are ironed out properly.  You guys are very clearly trying to return Annihilation to its dot-oriented damage output. 

Currently on live, Annihilation feels very bursty at times with draining center mod choice. You can set up your dots properly on the target, then hit Rend under berserk straight into Annihilate, each doing roughly 50k damage, then Dual Saber Throw and Slash after (or Vicious Throw sub 30%) for the autocrit with Dispatcher implant.  These 4 gcds together, along with dot ticks, is more than most burst specs in a consecutive train of abilities.  It's fun, but it makes Annihilation do a bit more burst than it should in my opinion.  The changes to the spec on pts turns a bit of that down, but in return, we get a ton of extra damage on dots to "make up" for that burst.

I agree with the idea you guys are going for, but as I said, the numbers aren't ironed out in my opinion.  With the change to Draining Center, after testing, I have to say that the mod choice isn't very useful anymore.  You lose out on the ability to hit Berserk right before Rend if you want to hit Rend off cooldown as you should because of the lack of Fury generation within the allotted timeframe between Rends, and the change to make it only do x2 damage from consuming a Berserk stack instead of x4 does not make up for delaying Rend.  Juyo Rend change is encouraged strongly because of this change, which is fine because it turns down the burst Annihilation can have with Draining Center on live.

I found in my pts testing that there are 2 ways you can play Annihilation with the changes to the mod choices.  At level 43, you can take Bleeding Center or Bloodfury, and both will parse similarly with Juyo Rend.  If you take Bleeding Center, as much of a meme as this is, your rotation is oriented around hitting Berserk whenever it's available, which is much more often than before.  With the addition of the 4 rage built with this mod choice, I found myself almost never needing Battering Assault, and I never hit Ravage anymore.  It pretty much turns Annihilation into what Carnage was last tier with Massacre spam, except now it's Vicious Slash.  It's fun, it's memey, but it also works and keeps up compared to your other option--Bloodfury.

With Juyo Rend and Bloodfury, the spec plays exactly the same as it does on live.  Set up dots properly, hit Berserk before Rend, get as many Bloodfury ticks as you can with remaining Berserk stacks.  Not much to say about this other than you lose out on x4 rend initial tick that's on live.

Ultimately, I like the changes to the mods to be more competitive with each other in terms of damage output.  The idea of changing Annihilation back to more dot oriented damage than burst is also a good idea, but the numbers aren't quite right.  You guys definitely had the right idea, but I don't think the current pts changes make up for the damage change to Draining Center.  I was noticing with either build above that I was running, it was about a 2k dps loss from what's on live.  Personally, I think Annihilation didn't need a nerf to overall dps.  I though that its place on the damage charts on live was a very appropriate spot for the spec.  With that being said, I think that the buffs that you guys did make for dots need to be tweaked slightly to make up for the damage loss you have with the spec on pts.  A lot of people are claiming that Annihilation doesn't work anymore, or that the dps loss is too great, but I don't agree.  As I said, the only thing that needs to change is slight tweaks to the changes already made to make up for the damage loss.  You guys had the right idea, just need to make it slightly...better, for the lack of a better term.

I didn't mention this, but the change to Pulverize is perfection.  I love it.  It feels smooth, it feels right, and it's a very good change.  It follows the idea of smoothing out the rotation that you guys are going for.  The change to Swift Demise is another good change.  I honestly prefer the extra 10% damage on Vicious Throw vs a chance at an extra 5% on Slash or Throw. Obviously, you don't get any benefit from it until the target is sub 30%, but it makes the spec have slightly more power in execute.  

Overall, good direction with changes, but more tweaking is necessary to make it work the way you guys want it to work.  

[ALaSZeRO]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:53 PM, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Mercenary/Commando

• Rocket Out/Propulsion Round is taking Hydraulic Overrides'/Hold the Line’s place on the ability tree as a level 68 mod choice.
• Rocket Out/Propulsion Round includes the utility Smoke Screen.
  • Smoke Screen: Rocket Out/Propulsion Round generates a Smoke Screen when used keeping you from being pulled or lept to and making you immune to interrupts and ability pushback for 4 seconds. In addition, taking melee or tech damage within 4 seconds of previously using Rocket Out/Propulsion Round, refreshes its cooldown. These effects cannot occur more then once every 40 seconds.
• Jet Escape/Tenacious Defense no longer reduces the cooldown of Rocket Out/Propulsion Round but instead increases the duration of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line by 4 seconds.
• Rocket Out's/Propulsion Round’s cooldown reduction from Jet Escape/Tenacious Defense is now the default cooldown for Rocket Out/Propulsion Round.

Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist

• Innovative Particle Accelerator/Ionic Accelerator - Rate limit reduced from 7.5 to 7.0 seconds.

This Rocket Out/Hydro change seems like a band aid solution at best.  Making mobility and critical defensive options mutually exclusive for a class that already sits mid-low tier on current PVP balance seems really lazy. In a meta where stealth classes still reign S tier for being able to dodge entire dps windows with insane CC/damage resist, and healing back to full with multiple vanishes, this rework only makes non stealth classes less viable/desirable to play. If we're forced to take hydro over rocket out, at the very least give us the PT/VG version of the ability with the OG 30s CD.

[Aethyriel]

23 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

But I bet the devs see lightning, AP, Arsenal, even Marksmen crossing the finish line in groups.

because the other DPS carry them when DPS actually matters. Also, you're just strictly making the fight more difficult for everyone involved. Sure, I killed Brontes with Assassins in the group before or Arsenal mercs or what have you - but fact is, had they been PTs or Marauders or specced IO, we would have had a much easier time (especially the healers trying to keep that Sin alive).

23 hours ago, steveerkcanjerk said:

So that data everyone keep referring to is not really helpful when 90% of the playerbase doesn't even post in there.

Those who post there actually care about performance and thus post. You can also assume that those who care usually perform better than those that don't. I know of guilds that play really well and never post as well but I also know the setup they're running and I know that they simply would not take certain classes to certain (in some cases all) bosses unless they just want to carry someone on a crappy character to something like Wings. Majority of players don't even play nim or they get ragged through by more competent players playing those appropriate classes to make it happen for you. You can make fights a lot easier or a lot harder depending on the classes you bring and the difference is insane at times.

15 hours ago, MASTERDMANISEPIC said:

You can set up your dots properly on the target, then hit Rend under berserk straight into Annihilate, each doing roughly 50k damage, then Dual Saber Throw and Slash after (or Vicious Throw sub 30%) for the autocrit with Dispatcher implant.  These 4 gcds together, along with dot ticks, is more than most burst specs in a consecutive train of abilities.

Except Fury, Carnage or Rage which are pure burst specs and now out do Anni in both Burst and DPS (by quite some margin in the case of Fury). You can also look at other dot specs like Pyro or lethality and explain to me how their burst is worse. Because it isn't. And you can say the same about vengeance with hard hitting abilities or even hatred with Leeching / Assassinate / Death Field one after another with eradicate ticking like crazy - especially sub 30%.

If you want to make the argument that dot specs should not be bursty, then explosive fuel has to go, leeching strike/Assasinate have to go and a bunch of other abilities have to go as well. If more burst potential is supposed to mean less DPS, then why is Fury getting a DPS buff after being top DPS already (if you can properly utilize Obliterate)? Which brings us back to

On 11/21/2022 at 6:50 PM, steveerkcanjerk said:

Not saying everyone was a jerk about it, but there were plenty who were. And then the devs gave enough reasoning and first reaction is f-u like come on.

They gave crappy reasoning and got an appropriate response. One of their answers was literally 'we know this ability [Force Fracture] sucks and is pointless but you know, more burst if you like' - except it does not even do more burst. The devs have shown time and time again they do not know how their own game works. Look at all previous class changes and then look at how that was reflected in players choices - even less Deception Assassins than ever before because they never addressed the issue with the class and nerfed DPS that was totally fine and ruined any hops of a smooth rotation with absurd random factors, then they buff the top DPS spec which also offers burst that nobody plays because Anni has OP heals and then they nerf Anni DPS because the healing is too much. They claim dot specs should be about dots but for how many years (especially during meteor brawler) was the top spec a dot spec (pyro) centered around a short burst window? They also turned Madness into a spec that now does more DPS as a dot spec using a burst mod (shock finishing your dots) than it does doing anything else. But that same thing is somehow a problem now on another class?

Every change that has been made since 7.0 was virtually the complete opposite of what was needed and instead of making more classes viable for endgame content, they reduced the number of viable classes even further. It's just doing a very bad job balancing the game. If you look at the aforementioned stats in all nim ops, browse through all ops and look at the stats to see who does top dps - it's never Anni. Anni is played for heals and they nerf DPS. This is simply stupid. The game would be more balanced immediately if you removed the grp healing capabilities of Annis and leave them with only self heal that most dot classes have already and let them have the dmg that is totally in line with DPS targets. The issue is Berserk healing the group. If you want to have sensible mod choices, then make players choose to either have 3k more DPS OR that healing if you don't want to remove it. Don't just nerf the DPS to compensate for another issue. Making a mistake to fix another mistake is just two mistakes, not one solution.

[Shabir_Dhillon]

Hey everyone, Shabir here back with another update. After looking over data collected from PTS and player feedback on Fury/Concentration, we will be making changes in regards to their DPS performance. We are implementing the following changes:

Fury/Concentration

 

• Gravity Fissure - Berserk/Zen no longer causes your next ability to auto crit. 

• Vehemence/Fervor - Critical Strike damage from all attacks increased back up to 10% from 5%. 

Dev Feedback: I wanted to add a bit of insight on this change as it does not come lightly. Since Fury/Concentration is a hybrid spec, we saw that Fury/Concentration was leaning too far as a burst spec and wanted to bring back into balance as a hybrid spec. This change also gives more flexibility to the player when they can activate Berserk/Zen. This also allows Carnage/Combat to further establish itself as the burst specialization and Annihilation/Watchman to establish itself as the sustain spec.

We appreciate the time taken for giving feedback. We are keeping an eye on this thread and will be making updates when changes occur. Take it easy.

[Deaconik]

21 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone, Shabir here back with another update. After looking over data collected from PTS and player feedback on Fury/Concentration, we will be making changes in regards to their DPS performance. We are implementing the following changes:

Fury/Concentration

 

• Gravity Fissure - Berserk/Zen no longer causes your next ability to auto crit. 

• Vehemence/Fervor - Critical Strike damage from all attacks increased back up to 10% from 5%. 

Dev Feedback: I wanted to add a bit of insight on this change as it does not come lightly. Since Fury/Concentration is a hybrid spec, we saw that Fury/Concentration was leaning too far as a burst spec and wanted to bring back into balance as a hybrid spec. This change also gives more flexibility to the player when they can activate Berserk/Zen. This also allows Carnage/Combat to further establish itself as the burst specialization and Annihilation/Watchman to establish itself as the sustain spec.

We appreciate the time taken for giving feedback. We are keeping an eye on this thread and will be making updates when changes occur. Take it easy.

You do realize some of us are hanging on two or three classes they love and you're ruingin one after other? The HP nerf in operations didn't help either, bugs don't help, but TAKE IT EASY.

I may be missing some English background, but this is IMO very insensitive. Take it easy...

How about you take it easy and show us the target numbers you are talking about?

Sure, return dot specs to sustain and less burst, but you cannot do that while removing dps and leaving other classes untouched. And if your plan is to balance 2 or 3 classes every 3 months... damn...

[steveerkcanjerk]

24 minutes ago, Deaconik said:

You do realize some of us are hanging on two or three classes they love and you're ruingin one after other? The HP nerf in operations didn't help either, bugs don't help, but TAKE IT EASY.

I may be missing some English background, but this is IMO very insensitive. Take it easy...

How about you take it easy and show us the target numbers you are talking about?

Sure, return dot specs to sustain and less burst, but you cannot do that while removing dps and leaving other classes untouched. And if your plan is to balance 2 or 3 classes every 3 months... damn...

Pretty sure everyone got changes at this point. If not there are very few outliers: 
- mercs, snipers, assassins, pt's, sorcs, juggs, tanks are about to, mara's.

At this point, you really didn't see a fury nerf coming. This is the blindside? It doesn't shock me, because if you look at the other threads you will see people saying how did we get nerfed and not fury which has some pretty crazy parses atm. From what it seems is they want the sustain specs to be leaning closer to a 30k parse and burst to be leaning towards 27k. But I don't know how much this is going to really hurt the parse. Might just take critically mod and still hit pretty hard. Maybe need to redistro my stats a bit on fury and lean heavier into some crit. 

And take it easy is just a common departing phrase. I would take a deep breadth. And in all honesty this is probably the most justified of the nerfs. If you don't think fury is overperforming at this point then thats straight delusion. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by steveerkcanjerk

[codydmaan]

52 minutes ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone, Shabir here back with another update. After looking over data collected from PTS and player feedback on Fury/Concentration,

Where you getting this player feedback. Definitely not on these forums.

[meddani]

1 hour ago, Shabir_Dhillon said:

Hey everyone, Shabir here back with another update. After looking over data collected from PTS and player feedback on Fury/Concentration, we will be making changes in regards to their DPS performance. We are implementing the following changes:

Fury/Concentration

 

• Gravity Fissure - Berserk/Zen no longer causes your next ability to auto crit. 

• Vehemence/Fervor - Critical Strike damage from all attacks increased back up to 10% from 5%. 

atleast make it 15% if you remove the auto crit completely ...also how about give carnage the 15% critial strike dmg back from pre 7.0? also the current planned anni changes are horrible 

Edited November 22, 2022 by meddani

[Nee-Elder]

5 minutes ago, codydmaan said:

Where you getting this player feedback.

Most likely a combo of:

• Select  'influencers' & streamers
• PTS players who only talk in-game (but never post on forums)
• The cat crawling over his keyboard
• Kathleen Kennedy

p.s.  i never understood what's  so enjoyable, from a Dev perspective, about  number-crunching percentage tweaks and "balance" passes  all the time.  Seems to be an utterly futile endeavor, especially since it's practically impossible to ever account for all the 823749 unique types of RL gamers/skills/variables.   I suppose it's a bit like how  certain SPORTS  often get overwhelmed by "the analytics"  crowd.

[steveerkcanjerk]

2 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Most likely a combo of:

• Select  'influencers' & streamers
• PTS players who only talk in-game (but never post on forums)
• The cat crawling over his keyboard
• Kathleen Kennedy

p.s.  i never understood what's  so enjoyable, from a Dev perspective, about  number-crunching percentage tweaks and "balance" passes  all the time.  Seems to be an utterly futile endeavor, especially since it's practically impossible to ever account for all the 823749 unique types of RL gamers/skills/variables.   I suppose it's a bit like how  certain SPORTS  often get overwhelmed by "the analytics"  crowd.

Honestly at this point anyone who thinks that users in this forum represent the larger player base, you know what lets get even more niche representation, NiM raiding community is in this thread, really is on one. Also nobody is gonna post positive stuff in here. If someone is okay with it they gonna go aight and move on with their day or talk about it with their friends or personal groups so yeah. Also i am sure they collect data from the server as well. But i would say it is necessary, to make adjustments and believe it or not actually does make the game more interesting.