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R-4 Anomaly Gearing


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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone,

 

Now that 7.1 PTS is live, I have some additional info to share with you from the Design team regarding gearing in Operations, specifically in The R-4 Anomaly.

 

On PTS you’ll notice that gearing works differently in R4 than other Operations. There are 2 goals we’ve focused on with R4 gear.

 

Progression as a Group

Operations are difficult content requiring coordinated groups to progress. Progressing can be easier if the group has control over which members are receiving their upgrades. We want to allow groups to have some control over their power progression, and have built this into R4’s gearing.

 

Progression on every Kill

It isn’t fun to kill a boss and make no progress towards your goals, even if your team is progressing towards group goals. R4 will have a secondary method of progression allowing every player to gain power as their group conquers each boss.

 

How these take shape in R4

 

Story Mode

In Story Mode, each boss will reward the operation group with story mode tokens, 1 per player. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 326. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 330. Cosmetic versions of the gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

 

Veteran Mode

Veteran Mode offer gear at 2 item qualities:

 

Virulent Gear (Artifact, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Bosses will drop a token unique to them, for now let’s call it the R4 Boss 1 Token. This Boss Token can be exchanged on a vendor for a piece of Artifact gear at item rating 340. Only 2 tokens will drop per boss and they are tradeable amongst the operations group.

Each boss token can only be used to purchase certain gear pieces, defeat the entire operation to obtain all gear!

 

Here is the list of Boss Tokens and the gear slots they purchase:

 

Boss 1

  • Head
  • Waist
  • Relic

Boss 2

 

  • Legs
  • Wrists
  • Relic

Boss 3

 

  • Chest
  • Offhand
  • Earpiece

Boss 4

 

  • Feet
  • Hands
  • Mainhand

 

Note: Implants will not be purchasable at item rating 340 as players are encouraged to focus on their Legendary Implants.

 

Hazardous Gear (Prototype, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Each boss on defeat will reward the entire operation group 1 Veteran Token each. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 332. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 340. Cosmetic versions of the R4 gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

 

We look forward to your feedback on this gearing system with the 7.1 PTS!

Edited by JackieKo
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Each boss on defeat will reward the entire operation group 1 Veteran Token each. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 332. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 340.

 

I'm assuming that's additional veteran tokens and not story ?

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Veteran Mode

Bosses will drop a token unique to them, for now let’s call it the R4 Boss 1 Token. This Boss Token can be exchanged on a vendor for a piece of Artifact gear at item rating 340. Only 2 tokens will drop per boss and they are tradeable amongst the operations group.

So we're back to fighting over gear now? This pretty much will kill PUG groups. What is the reasoning for this change?

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So we're back to fighting over gear now? This pretty much will kill PUG groups. What is the reasoning for this change?

 

No, it won't.

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Note: Implants will not be purchasable at item rating 340 as players are encouraged to focus on their Legendary Implants.

 

Currently, legandary implants can only be upgraded up to 334 on PTS. Will that change?

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So, what I see from this is that we've basically taken original gearing from 1.x and made it orders of magnitude worse. There will be so much group-based infighting, let alone actual goals being accomplished. The 5.x/6.x gearing made it possible for people to not have to worry about gearing solely via operations and allowed every player to have all the new shiny. The gearing philosophy has had such a drastic switch that I am very concerned as to what the decision making process is and whose input is being utilized to make such horrid decisions.

 

It almost makes one wonder if there has been a decision made to slowly make the environment one where the majority of the group-based players will simply leave the game so efforts don't need to be put into further group content.

 

This is an initial post of new gearing, and hopefully there will be changes to have it not be as restrictive to get the new gear. The argument I normally see is "why do players who don't do group content need the top-end gear?". The simple response is "they don't." On the flip side of this I would ask: "Why should they *not* be able to acquire the gear? What makes them *less important* in the game that they shouldn't have access to the gear.

:rak_02::rak_02:

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At this point bring back 6.0 at least that stuff worked.

 

The horrible ideas keep pouring in. When will they ever stop? Further proof they have no idea what their doing.

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Posted (edited)
So there's only gonna be 4 bosses? i thought it was supposed to be 5.

 

It seems ambiguous on the PTS forum post. It says Lady Dominique is “the next boss,” but not necessarily the final boss.

 

 

In addition to this, a question: what gear rating will be recommended for Story Mode R4 Anomaly?

Edited by Anysao
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Posted (edited)

"Oh boy! I can't wait to spend hours waiting for an R-4 Operation group to form, for the chance to defeat a once per week boss, which has a ~1/4 chance to result in me getting a BiS armor drop that other people will hate me for! 8D"

 

Said no one ever.

Edited by NekoAggelou
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So, we're gonna have to do another 5 implant upgrades at 6500 tech frags each to go from 330 to 340? That's a bit much. That should be lowered. We spent enough just getting from 326 to 330, but then to have to do it 5 more times to get to 340 for each implant we have is outrageous.
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I second that. Assuming my Legendary is already at 330, I need to spend 32k+ on ONE Implant to get it to 340. 65k for both. And I personally play many classes. I have 12 Implants at 330 right now, and I know people who have more. To get them all to to 340.... I need a time machine and many years of my life.
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This is just a brutal move. This will basically kill PUG groups, and in a dwindling game the dev team should be spending every ounce of energy trying to encourage people to play together. Having token drops that you have to fight it out with the group for is an absolutely horrible idea that will create a toxic game environment. Particularly if a specific boss is very challenging. Gearing already took a step back in 7.0 and now you want to take it another step back in 7.1?

 

Why not focus on stability improvements (I've never seen so many DCs), class balancing (hello have you taken a look at the star parse charts? Classes are more unbalanced than ever), and actually fixing the existing bugs (consistent dead bugs, boss glitches etc).

 

Also having a single Op be the only way to recieve endgame content is totally backwards. The whole point of the endgame is replayablity and variety. SWTOR is already kinda short on raids, I'm not looking forward to trying to run the same op over and over and over just to get a full set needed to complete the other ops on HM or NiM.

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Posted (edited)
After the way gear is handed out now, you really think people will join PUG groups with the possibility of getting zero gear from an op?

 

Judging by some of the Nefra runs, I don't think there will be many pug R4 HM groups.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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So, we're gonna have to do another 5 implant upgrades at 6500 tech frags each to go from 330 to 340? That's a bit much. That should be lowered. We spent enough just getting from 326 to 330, but then to have to do it 5 more times to get to 340 for each implant we have is outrageous.

 

Implants only go up to Item Rating 334, that's 2 additional upgrades.

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Posted (edited)

A lot of negativity in these comments. I, personally, am thrilled to have the 1.x gearing showing a return. The fact that you can get BiS gear in 6.x simply from farming just about anything was dumb. These changes make sense. Sorry, not sorry. If you can't clear all of R-4 Vet Mode...you simply do not deserve BiS gear. No more participation trophies. When I hover over someone's character portrait, or inspect them and see their Item Rating average as 340 with all slots showing a purple border (except legendary implants of course)--I will know they are a beast because that means there is a very good chance that they and their group have cleared R-4 HM about 12 times.

 

Calling them elitists is gaslighting. Having BiS gear should be an indication of skill across 8 players who spend enough time to maximize their character's effectiveness and coordination with their teammates to beat the hardest content.

 

This is how it should be. And I say this knowing there's a chance my group may not make it to the end of R-4 for a long time. It is what it is. We will do our best, get better each week, and be rewarded properly based on how well we do. As it will be for everyone. You get what you put in. If you raid 2 hours per week, don't expect to get a full set of BiS gear in any timely manner.

 

As for PUGs...the first problem is thinking "hey, let's PUG the hardest content". If the hardest content is PUGable...it's not hard enough. The hardest content should only be clearable from static groups who coordinate well with each other, that have no qualms with wiping 50 times per night just to learn one mechanic.

 

"But I'm not in a static group...it's not fair". Here's a suggestion: put yourself out there. I know for a fact that so many static groups are actively filling slots right now. I also know for a fact a lot of players are involved in multiple groups and actually enjoy starting new groups for inexperienced players looking to get a taste of prog raiding. Just ask. If you're in a guild, let your guild leaders know you're interested. If enough people show interest, I'm sure they will help form additional static groups. If they refuse...you're not in the right guild.

 

Last topic I saw was a complaint about the possibility of needing 65,000 tech frags to upgrade our legendary implants from 330 to 340. Have you played recently? The game is just giving away tech frags. If you regularly play Vet mode legacy ops for fun (tons of PUGs always forming), you can easily--EASILY, do a single upgrade every 1 or 2 days of playing. I promise you will have legendary implants at 340 before you're even close to having a full set of Artifact 340s. As it stands based on this post, a single static group of 8 players will need to clear all 4 vet mode bosses 12 times (that's 12 weeks), in order for each player to get the R-4 boss token for each of the 12 slots of gear the operation offers. You don't think you'll have 65,000 tech frags in 3 months? I consider myself a slightly dedicated casual gamer and I'm pulling about 8,000 frags per week. If I needed to, I can get more per week by playing more.

 

As I said already, you get what you put in. Nothing should be handed to you for little to no effort. That's what Pay To Win games are for. I'm excited for the gearing changes come 7.1. Even if I'm the only one in the comments who is.

Edited by SpaceSphere
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Last topic I saw was a complaint about the possibility of needing 65,000 tech frags to upgrade our legendary implants from 330 to 340. Have you played recently? The game is just giving away tech frags. If you regularly play Vet mode legacy ops for fun (tons of PUGs always forming), you can easily--EASILY, do a single upgrade every 1 or 2 days of playing. I promise you will have legendary implants at 340 before you're even close to having a full set of Artifact 340s. As it stands based on this post, a single static group of 8 players will need to clear all 4 vet mode bosses 12 times (that's 12 weeks), in order for each player to get the R-4 boss token for each of the 12 slots of gear the operation offers. You don't think you'll have 65,000 tech frags in 3 months? I consider myself a slightly dedicated casual gamer and I'm pulling about 8,000 frags per week. If I needed to, I can get more per week by playing more.

 

I absolutely agree that nothing should be just handed to us. I can't speak to the rest of your post, because those weren't my concerns at all. I'm not planning to pug - as you said - the hardest content in the game. :D I have dedicated teams of experienced raiders for that.

 

But as to my point about implants, I think your math is correct. Like you, I run plenty of HMs per week, and I definitely get enough Frags. I even think 8k is low-balling it, I believe I'm getting twice as much in a week at least. My worry, however, is that I want to upgrade Implants for more than 1 class. That number, 65k, if it is correct, is just 2 implants for one class. Possibly two if they're shared, like for some DPS classes. But I'm a versatile player who fills many roles in my various teams. At the very least, I need to upgrade 2 types of tanks + 1 melee dps + 1 ranged. And that's if I'm being stringent.

 

Now, as someone has pointed out, and yes, I've seen it on the PTS that the Implants can only go to 334. If that is how it's intended for live, I'm less worried. Frankly, running 326 Implants is perfectly viable now, and not upgrading from 330 to 334 is not gonna make or break my class. Also, the cost will be much cheaper. But if it is intended to go to 340, and I have at least 12 Implants I personally want to have at the top tier? That's 400k Tech Fragments, and that requires a little bit TOO much time spent on my behalf.

 

I like this game, I have quite a bit of time that I can allocate to playing. But I don't believe I have that much time. That's all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I absolutely agree that nothing should be just handed to us. I can't speak to the rest of your post, because those weren't my concerns at all. I'm not planning to pug - as you said - the hardest content in the game. :D I have dedicated teams of experienced raiders for that.

 

But as to my point about implants, I think your math is correct. Like you, I run plenty of HMs per week, and I definitely get enough Frags. I even think 8k is low-balling it, I believe I'm getting twice as much in a week at least. My worry, however, is that I want to upgrade Implants for more than 1 class. That number, 65k, if it is correct, is just 2 implants for one class. Possibly two if they're shared, like for some DPS classes. But I'm a versatile player who fills many roles in my various teams. At the very least, I need to upgrade 2 types of tanks + 1 melee dps + 1 ranged. And that's if I'm being stringent.

 

Now, as someone has pointed out, and yes, I've seen it on the PTS that the Implants can only go to 334. If that is how it's intended for live, I'm less worried. Frankly, running 326 Implants is perfectly viable now, and not upgrading from 330 to 334 is not gonna make or break my class. Also, the cost will be much cheaper. But if it is intended to go to 340, and I have at least 12 Implants I personally want to have at the top tier? That's 400k Tech Fragments, and that requires a little bit TOO much time spent on my behalf.

 

I like this game, I have quite a bit of time that I can allocate to playing. But I don't believe I have that much time. That's all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

That's totally fair. And I definitely wasn't trying to be offensive. I, too, saw that PTS is only allows implants to go up to 334. As far as I know, there's no official statement from BW as to whether implants are going to be capped at 334, or if that is just a PTS limitation. Either way, it's a low skill process to upgrade. Low skill requiring more time make sense. Perhaps a good balance would be to offer more tech frags on the R-4 SM/VM bosses than the legacy ops. Legacy SM/VM/MM is 2000/2500/3000. Would the grind to the theoretical 340 legendary implant not be as bad if they were to offer 3500 for R-4 SM clears and 4000 for R-4 VM clears?

 

There is also the age old tradition of lowering the costs of gear of previous tiers when new tiers are introduced. (Remember the days of Elite and Ultimate comms?) Maybe they'll decide to lower the upgrade costs eventually--especially if any potential new players are coming in right at 7.1 and start with legendary 326 gear grinding endlessly to get to 334 or beyond.

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Posted (edited)
A lot of negativity in these comments. I, personally, am thrilled to have the 1.x gearing showing a return. The fact that you can get BiS gear in 6.x simply from farming just about anything was dumb. These changes make sense. Sorry, not sorry. If you can't clear all of R-4 Vet Mode...you simply do not deserve BiS gear. No more participation trophies. When I hover over someone's character portrait, or inspect them and see their Item Rating average as 340 with all slots showing a purple border (except legendary implants of course)--I will know they are a beast because that means there is a very good chance that they and their group have cleared R-4 HM about 12 times.

 

Calling them elitists is gaslighting. Having BiS gear should be an indication of skill across 8 players who spend enough time to maximize their character's effectiveness and coordination with their teammates to beat the hardest content.

 

This is how it should be. And I say this knowing there's a chance my group may not make it to the end of R-4 for a long time. It is what it is. We will do our best, get better each week, and be rewarded properly based on how well we do. As it will be for everyone. You get what you put in. If you raid 2 hours per week, don't expect to get a full set of BiS gear in any timely manner.

 

 

I agree on pretty much everything. I just hate that once again we have to grind one and the same ops over and over and over again until everyone hates it. It also shows the hypocricy in the development, as they've been fast to call it "unintended way to play" and nerf it. Suddenly it's fine again. It also sounds like they don't believe people in their own product: if the operation is good, people will go back and do it again and again, and again. If it's good but too exhausting (like Gods), people will avoid it if there is anything else they can think of doing.

 

The gearing is also very punishing for people who play multiple roles and classes, especially since we are now abandoning personal loot again. WHY are we going backwards??? :confused: Someone can join 1-2 raid per day and never get anything but lockouts from it. A raid group can decide on gearing runs and agree on handing the tokens over to specific player at a time. But if the group is not full and you have to pug someone, it's possible that the only one getting anything is the pug. The rest will just get lockouts.

 

The tokens need to be personal loot and everyone should get one.

Edited by DeannaVoyager
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