Going forward, should SWTOR drop voice acted PlayerChars?

[TrixxieTriss]

It isn't a given that if we don't have to pay for VA they will use the money somewhere else in game.

 

That’s the point I tried to make earlier. EA would just see it as a way to cut costs further for more profit and to get bigger executive bonuses. They wouldn’t reallocate the funds back into more production.

[SaerethDL]

Really, from 15-30 minutes of story content, you think getting rid of voice acting would allow Bioware to put out "loads" of new content. You are dreaming. Dropping just 1 boss from an Operation or Flashpoint during development would save you a lot more money. By cutting the Devs work by 20% you could add 20% more content straight up, probably more because they wouldn't have to balance the content three times. Drop a full difficulty level from an Operation and you could probably add two extra Flashpoints or several hours of story play.

 

Would you be for dropping a boss from an Operation or Flashpoint so they could put out more story content. I seriously doubt it. The voice acting is the one thing that differentiates this game from other MMOs. It is by far the best quality feature of the game.

 

I'm not gonna say you're wrong because I can't find any sources for the budget. But I Imagine voice acting all these characters, with multiple dialog choices, cost a good percentage more than a single boss in an operation or flashpoint. I'd be willing to ask you for your sources if you can find them.

Edited December 15, 2021 by SaerethDL

[eabevella]

speak for yourself, I will still play the game without voice acting player characters and be just fine with the loads of new content they would give us,

 

What world do you live in to believe Bioware will make "loads of new content" without voice actors? Did they whisper you that in some secret discord group or something?

 

do you guys realize how much money, time, and effort it is to pay 16 high-quality voice actors every time you need to add story content? Not just the money, but to get everyone on schedule, when people are busy doing other projects.. you truly have no idea do you and just insult people because you don't like a difference of opinion.

 

I'm not gonna say you're wrong because I can't find any sources for the budget. But I Imagine voice acting all these characters, with multiple dialog choices, cost a good percentage more than a single boss in an operation or flashpoint. I'd be willing to ask you for your sources if you can find them.

 

LMAO I imagine this I imagine that. And I imagine myself the true Empress of the Sith Empire.

[Eranis]

it would look like watching a movie with subtitles? I don't get your point.

 

Well, if you don't see my point, then we merely have different preferences for how we want to experience our SWtOR. For me, it would redact greatly from my enjoyment and would feel cheap and outdated. I enjoy the class VAs a lot and would sorely miss them. And, as you can see in this thread, I'm not alone. They would lose a lot of players, no doubt.

 

Also this:

EA would just see it as a way to cut costs further for more profit and to get bigger executive bonuses. They wouldn’t reallocate the funds back into more production.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Eranis

[SaerethDL]

Well, if you don't see my point, then we merely have different preferences for how we want to experience our SWtOR. For me, it would redact greatly from my enjoyment and would feel cheap and outdated. I enjoy the class VAs a lot and would sorely miss them. And, as you can see in this thread, I'm not alone. They would lose a lot of players, no doubt.

 

Well your point doesn't make sense, everything you mentioned can still be done even without voice acted player chars, hence subtitles in action movies and foreign films. But anyways, why would people leave? they aren't going to remove the voice acting for stuff that was already there, this would be new content that wouldn't otherwise exist.

Edited December 15, 2021 by SaerethDL

[SaerethDL]

What world do you live in to believe Bioware will make "loads of new content" without voice actors? Did they whisper you that in some secret discord group or something?

 

 

 

 

 

LMAO I imagine this I imagine that. And I imagine myself the true Empress of the Sith Empire.

 

 

lol you never bring anything to the conversation so this is my last reply. It's common sense that when you have more budget and time without the constraints of dozens of high paid voice actors and meeting their schedules, then in theory it should open them up to produce more content for the game and at a faster pace if they wanted to and were held back by those things.

 

It's not really an imagination kind of thing, swtor was a 200million dollar+ project and it was speculated that a majority of that was to pay all the voice actors. I can find comments and articles from ten years ago that predicted what would happen to swtor and their expansions because of being a fully voiced mmo, and we are seeing that in full force lately.

 

Just because I imagine things doesn't mean I don't have an educated guess.

[Eranis]

Well your point doesn't make sense, everything you mentioned can still be done even without voice acted player chars, hence subtitles in action movies and foreign films. But anyways, why would people leave? they aren't going to remove the voice acting for stuff that was already there, this would be new content that wouldn't otherwise exist.

 

Not sure how many action movies you have watched with a mute protagonist whose dialogue is solely conveyed through subtitles. None springs to mind. Viva La Dirt League have made a spoof on the silent protagonist in games to show how silly this looks in action (not sure if I'm allowed to link youtube-videos here).

 

Why would people leave? A lot of people play solely for the story and, as many in this thread have said, the VA is important to the immersion for them (me included). I'm a founder, have played old content multiple times. New story content is one of the reasons I stay subscribed and still support them. But I'd stop subscribing if they cut the VA, because they'd take away a big part of why I enjoy this game.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Eranis

[Stradlin]

Really, from 15-30 minutes of story content, you think getting rid of voice acting would allow Bioware to put out "loads" of new content. You are dreaming. .

 

In the end, none of us really knows. Only EA knows how much it costs. Only devs and producers attached to BW know how difficult and cumbersome it is to get all of PCVA recorded during the same development push or production cycle or however you wanna call it.

 

You can use common sense based on what has actually happened. And make your educated guesses. Your own words describe the elephant in the room just fine: 15-30 mins of story content. How many minutes of 2021 did you spend listening to your favorite playercharacter talking their way through newly released content? 2? 90 seconds? If it isn't that difficult and expensive to do, why is it released in such a slow phase? New pure story content needs no new assets otherwise. Great witer with tons of voice acting muscle at their disposal could have entire games worth of epic story alive and well in that map room where you do your 90 second chit chats about Malgus. In general, for a story driven game, surprisingly few problems and missions have been tackled via dialogue and decisions.

 

This is why I'm kinda puzzled by the " Im here for the story and I rather see game dead than PCVA gone!!" crowd. This is what you here for? 4 hour expansion every 2-3 years. Combined with half a dozen 2 minute get together chit chats about Malgus sprinkled around? You folks happy with this phase, or hopeful things will somehow, for some reason pick up again in terms of volume of content? Evül people talking about ditching PCVAs see the snail phase as a problem and are suggesting what they believe to be a potential solution.

 

 

In general, TOR been at a rough spot from day one really. Most folks are here for story content. Story content is costly to produce an fairly disposable by nature. Clearly it is expensive/slow/difficult to make story content. Otherwise we'd get more and faster. It is clearly lots of work and money to manage 4 hours of it. If they release 4 hour expansion on Monday, people will be all " it was great, wen more" by Tuesday. This stuff is expensive to make and gets consumed quite fast. Some aspects in TOR offer enarly infinite longevity (Starfighter, pvp content by nature always does..for those who like it) Yet, this stuff isn't improved or held under limelight at all though.

 

Getting off topic but hey, this is a story driven game. Almost 100% of that story takes place in pve environment. More or less 100% of that story takes place in single player instances of irrelevant difficulty. It'd be swell to see some story somewhere else too, in this story based MMO. Story revolving around Starfighter pilots that takes place in GSF? Some hired gun mando story that takes place in WZs?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

 

This is why I'm kinda puzzled by the " Im here for the story and I rather see game dead than PCVA gone!!" crowd. This is what you here for? 4 hour expansion every 2-3 years.

You may be puzzled because you're assuming here that all players burn through fresh story only, and once that's done, it's done, and are off begging for more. Yes, there are plenty of content locusts in that category who essentially only show up for the new stuff and don't bother with the rest.

 

But you're excluding, I shall hazard, a large contingent of players who say that they "play for story" but what they're doing is REPLAYING the story.

 

Running through existing content, trying new response options, going light side the first time and dark the next, trying to go gray, trying to be as snarky one moment or sweet the next, or seeing how it feels to play a race not commonly associated with a given faction, class, etc. are all "playing for story."

 

"For the story" therefore means different things to different people, but they're all accomplishing the same thing: having fun going through existing content, not just sitting on their hands waiting to burn through upcoming story, so measuring out spoonful by spoonful how much story is coming up isn't a priority for them nor a crisis if the next drop of content isn't huge.

Edited December 15, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[oslek]

 

This is why I'm kinda puzzled by the " Im here for the story and I rather see game dead than PCVA gone!!" crowd. This is what you here for? 4 hour expansion every 2-3 years. Combined with half a dozen 2 minute get together chit chats about Malgus sprinkled around? You folks happy with this phase, or hopeful things will somehow, for some reason pick up again in terms of volume of content? Evül people talking about ditching PCVAs see the snail phase as a problem and are suggesting what they believe to be a potential solution.

 

Those of us in "that crowd" would rather not play the game without PCVA because that is the ONLY thing that keeps us playing. It is the game's calling card. Without PCVA, it's not the same game and I no longer have any interest. It's really that simple.

 

Also, I have no faith that EA will re-invest the money they have saved back into the game. The staff working on the game is very light and the game will drip feed content no matter what. And EA is not going to invest more money into staffing a ten year old game..So all you're accomplishing is alienating the already small sub base that is keeping this game going.

Edited December 15, 2021 by oslek

[AggiePunbot]

Not sure how many action movies you have watched with a mute protagonist whose dialogue is solely conveyed through subtitles. None springs to mind.

 

Soldier had this; the protagonist of the movie was played by Kurt Russell who never uttered a single word throughout the movie* and thus had to rely on his body language and facial movements to sell the story (which he did extremely well, for the record). However, that was a movie and not a video game, where it's a lot easier to get facial expressions right in a live media than it is in a digital one.

 

I am solidly in agreement with the people who would quit this game if they removed the voice acting for the playable characters; would make the game too boring and generic.

 

* Well, evidentally according to Wikipedia he actually spoke 104 words, but I'll be damned if I can remember a single one of them.

Edited December 15, 2021 by AggiePunbot

[MystyqeofXev]

As many have pointed out in this thread, the removal of voice acting does not necessarily mean more content. Furthermore, there exists the potential for a self-fulfilling prophecy, wherein, SWTOR doesn't make "enough" (check EA's SEC filing), so EA devoted less resources.

 

Devoting less resources results in fewer subs and fewer purchases off the CM. These, in turn, result in confirming EA's "philosophy", and even less money, time, people, are allocated.

 

It's a race to the bottom mentality.

[SithKoriandr]

Soldier had this; the protagonist of the movie was played by Kurt Russell who never uttered a single word throughout the movie* and thus had to rely on his body language and facial movements to sell the story (which he did extremely well, for the record). However, that was a movie and not a video game, where it's a lot easier to get facial expressions right in a live media than it is in a digital one.

 

I am solidly in agreement with the people who would quit this game if they removed the voice acting for the playable characters; would make the game too boring and generic.

 

* Well, evidentally according to Wikipedia he actually spoke 104 words, but I'll be damned if I can remember a single one of them.

 

I was going to say, he spoke, it just wasn't much at all.

[Eranis]

But you're excluding, I shall hazard, a large contingent of players who say that they "play for story" but what they're doing is REPLAYING the story.

 

Running through existing content, trying new response options, going light side the first time and dark the next, trying to go gray, trying to be as snarky one moment or sweet the next, or seeing how it feels to play a race not commonly associated with a given faction, class, etc. are all "playing for story."

 

That'd be the kind of player I am. And I happily pay a sub for the story, for the whole convenience stuff that comes with a sub and so that they can dish out more content regularly (even if it's not that often). But replaying a story with the prospect of my beloved character going silent all of a sudden would break the deal for me. Simple as that.

 

Soldier had this; the protagonist of the movie was played by Kurt Russell who never uttered a single word throughout the movie* and thus had to rely on his body language and facial movements to sell the story (which he did extremely well, for the record). However, that was a movie and not a video game, where it's a lot easier to get facial expressions right in a live media than it is in a digital one.

 

Thanks for the reminder, I know I have seen it, but it's been a while. Maybe time to watch it again. There's also Hush, a horror movie with a deaf-mute heroine. But in both cases the muteness or reticence are a part of the narrative (and as you wrote, it works much better in a movie).

[HoloTweed]

It kinda puzzles me... Yet, ppl love it dearly.

 

Not sure why you continue to fight this argument. Even you understand that people don't want the character voice acting to go away, and as most have pointed out, it would not only DRASTICALLY water down the game interactions as we saw in KOTFE/ET, but losing the voice acting would NOT change the cadence of release nor magically expand the amount of class-based content. It's just a bad idea and would be an actual stake in the heart of the game.

 

Best to just let this one go.

[DWho]

The reason we don't get much content in these expansions isn't because of voice acting. Content is driven by Dev time. The reason the expansions are so low on content is that the game takes a 180 degree turn compared to the previous expansion or reinvents the wheel, wasting Dev time redoing systems that are working.

 

If you look at 4,5,6,and now 7, that is clearly the problem. 4 was arguably the biggest expansion the game has ever seen, whether you like the direction it took or not. The mistake that was made was the 1 chapter a month approach they took. When played all together it is an excellent expansion and even featured replayability. For 5.0 they took a schizophrenic turn starting out with a continuation of 4.0 and then switching to a focus on group content mid stream along with the birth of probably the most despised and unbalanced bit of content, the Story Flashpoint. This shift was not necessarily a bad thing but a major shift in direction toward content that takes more Dev time to develop and unsurprisingly, the amount of content released was lower. Then came 6.0 with a complete rework of the gearing system and finally 7.0 with another complete rework of the gearing system and a redesign of the combat system. With both of those, playable content dwindled more.

 

The Devs can work on either rebooting core systems or producing new content. The last two "expansions" have been all about reworking core systems which resulted in diminished content.

 

If you want more content, the best place to go is to push for less rework of core systems. That will get you by far the biggest bang for your buck.

[HoloTweed]

It's not really an imagination kind of thing, swtor was a 200million dollar+ project and it was speculated that a majority of that was to pay all the voice actors.

 

Those wild, unfounded speculations were shot down early in the game's lifetime. The voice actors aren't the huge expense you make them out to be. You also wildly exaggerate the amount of time it takes to record and include voice actors as well...

[Severith]

Those wild, unfounded speculations were shot down early in the game's lifetime. The voice actors aren't the huge expense you make them out to be. You also wildly exaggerate the amount of time it takes to record and include voice actors as well...

 

I'd love to see a financial breakdown of the voice acting in SWTOR, or any game really.

 

It's a well known fact that even the most well known voice actors (for anime and video games) in the United States are middle class, or lower middle class, with a few rare exceptions. You have to be very well loved by the respective community, and keep doing the convention circuit, to make a good living as a voice actor.

 

Yet for some reason, back when voice acting became much more common and consistent in video games (I'd say 2002-2003) developers and gaming journalists would go out of their way to make it seem so great that a gaming company would spend so much money on fully voicing a game.

 

I really doubt if even 15% of the voice acting budget even makes it to the voice actors. It's really more of a question of, "How much money is lost in production" not "How much were the voice actors paid."

 

If you really wanted to save money, and could trust EA to put that money back into the game, I'd say axe all the non-English voicing/production in the future. Most French and German people understand English pretty well, and you can always keep the subtitles in their native language.

[JuventusAndFCK]

No, it made Alliance missions of KotFE feel kind of cheap and detracted from the narrative that had already been established in the span of the game up until that point.

Yes, this. Removing voice acting would only be a detriment for the game.

[kage_goomba]

 

If you really wanted to save money, and could trust EA to put that money back into the game, I'd say axe all the non-English voicing/production in the future. Most French and German people understand English pretty well, and you can always keep the subtitles in their native language.

 

This.

Foreign languages tend to be more expensive as it is due to various reasons - of all the insane suggestions - this one is very rational and well thought out.

 

English as trashy as the language is in comparison - is common enough that people should be able to figure it out. Would be cheaper to do subtitles in other languages at that rate.

 

I also echo that voice acting budgets are being overly inflated here - especially by the OP.

I don't think "VA's" are being paid that much as it is - a sad truth for a luxury in our world.

[Stradlin]

This.

Foreign languages tend to be more expensive as it is due to various reasons - of all the insane suggestions - this one is very rational and well thought out.

 

English as trashy as the language is in comparison - is common enough that people should be able to figure it out. Would be cheaper to do subtitles in other languages at that rate.

 

I also echo that voice acting budgets are being overly inflated here - especially by the OP.

I don't think "VA's" are being paid that much as it is - a sad truth for a luxury in our world.

 

If it were easy and cheap, you'd have quite a bit more of it quite a bit more often. If it isn't too costly and too dififcult, why is it that you get barely few hours of new storyline every few years? Clearly many people are here exclusivelly for story. Being able to hear player char speak seems almost the only requirement or desire when it comes to the story. So..if this stuff is easy and cheap to do, then story patches heavy in dialogue and thin in all else would be awesome, simple and affordable way to do content patches. This doesn't happen.

 

If it isn't expesive and difficult, why does SW:TOR remain the only MMORPG to do full pc voice acting?

 

This high cost and difficulty doesn't even come from budget and dollars alone. Logistical difficulties, scheduling issues, finding ways to cram studio time of all PCVAs within same development cycle..Plus surely there's nice little basketcase of issues unthinkableto players. Contracts to be renewed and so on.

 

 

I think they would have already dropped German and French localization if they could. Rumor* has it that Disney/EA contract requires localization in French and German. Source: few ppl on forums years back. FWIW foreign languages most def are not more expensive. Surely voice acting talent is more costly in English. Much more demand.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Stradlin

[DWho]

If it were easy and cheap, you'd have quite a bit more of it quite a bit more often. If it isn't too costly and too dififcult, why is it that you get barely few hours of new storyline every few years? Clearly many people are here exclusivelly for story. Being able to hear player char speak seems almost the only requirement or desire when it comes to the story. So..if this stuff is easy and cheap to do, then story patches heavy in dialogue and thin in all else would be awesome, simple and affordable way to do content patches. This doesn't happen.

 

If it isn't expesive and difficult, why does SW:TOR remain the only MMORPG to do full pc voice acting?

 

This high cost and difficulty doesn't even come from budget and dollars alone. Logistical difficulties, scheduling issues, finding ways to cram studio time of all PCVAs within same development cycle..Plus surely there's nice little basketcase of issues unthinkableto players. Contracts to be renewed and so on.

 

 

I think they would have already dropped German and French localization if they could. Rumor* has it that Disney/EA contract requires localization in French and German. Source: few ppl on forums years back. FWIW foreign languages most def are not more expensive. Surely voice acting talent is more costly in English. Much more demand.

 

Please stop with your crusading to destroy what other people enjoy. You did it with Conquest and now you have set your sights on the one thing that makes this MMORPG different from the rest. Your claim that voice acting is expensive has no basis in fact or you would have presented the facts. If you have actual numbers on the cost of the voice acting for this game, please present them instead of implying you know better than everyone else posting what those costs are.

[Stradlin]

Please stop with your crusading to destroy what other people enjoy. You did it with Conquest and now you have set your sights on the one thing that makes this MMORPG different from the rest. Your claim that voice acting is expensive has no basis in fact or you would have presented the facts. If you have actual numbers on the cost of the voice acting for this game, please present them instead of implying you know better than everyone else posting what those costs are.

 

Are you sure you..read internet forums about video game mechanics correctly? It is completely needless to turn something like this into some weird ad hominem about the poster. I see a problem (snail phase droplets of story) and suggest what I believe to be a potential soution to it. You endure what..5 posts back and forth about this stuff and then start turning it into a discussion about speaker, not what is being said.gg, as they say.

 

Instead of " stop hating people who have fuuun!!"or whatever, you could always explain why you think new dialogue involving PCVA comes as thinly and slowly as it does. If it isn't costly and difficult to produce, then what?

 

Post you quoted laid out in detail why I think it is expensive, slow and difficult and what I think counts as proof of just that.

 

" significant amount of high quality voice acting by close to 50 different Player Character actors is costly and cumbersome to produce" isn't an extremely controversial thing to say.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Stradlin

[DWho]

Are you sure you..read internet forums about video game mechanics correctly? It is completely needless to turn something like this into some weird ad hominem about the poster. I see a problem (snail phase droplets of story) and suggest what I believe to be a potential soution to it. You endure what..5 posts back and forth about this stuff and then start turning it into a discussion about speaker, not what is being said.gg, as they say.

 

 

Post you quoted laid out in detail why I think it is expensive, slow and difficult and what I think counts as proof of just that.

 

" significant amount of high quality voice acting by close to 50 different Player Character actors is costly and cumbersome to produce" isn't an extremely controversial thing to say.

 

Yes but everyone of your posts says exactly the same thing. You add nothing new whatsoever. If you just straight up copied your first post and pasted in for each of the others, you couldn't even tell the difference. It's as if you think if you say something often enough that will make it true.

 

I did some research on voiceover payments which you clearly didn't. The highest paid VA was paid $400,000 for a 30 minute episode of the Simpsons for voicing several characters including a main one. No expansion includes anywhere near that much VA. A 30 second commercial pays about $1,000 for a nationally broadcast commercial (note that this is different than appearing in the commercial).

 

The voice actors presented as proof of how much it costs (Jennifer Hayle, etc) have all done lots of work for Bioware. Hayle voices the female main character for the Mass Effect series and as such is likely under contract with Bioware for doing VA work for all their games (and perhaps EA as well). Contracts generally provide a reduced cost service for a guaranteed payout so you are most likely overestimating how much she costs for the game by a rather large amount. There is a reason video game voice actors have extensive lists of titles they have worked for. It takes a lot of "gigs" to pay the rent at the pay rate they get. Why do you think they went on strike a few years back?

 

As I said before, it's not like they are getting Jennifer Lawrence or Tom Cruise to voice these parts. Even the most highly paid voice actors are not making millions for their effort. Many are just starting out in acting or are stepping back from acting but want to stay active.

[SaerethDL]

Those wild, unfounded speculations were shot down early in the game's lifetime. The voice actors aren't the huge expense you make them out to be. You also wildly exaggerate the amount of time it takes to record and include voice actors as well...

 

Proof, link or anything? I'll be waiting.