Going forward, should SWTOR drop voice acted PlayerChars?

[Stradlin]

Scenario: Imagine there is a brand new tiny story patch coming out. It is even smaller than what we used to. It amounts to player character saying one single sentence. "Help me step sither, I'm stuck in a Kolto tank" and literally nothing else. Imagine what a gigantic effort this single sentence is for an older MMO with small dev team and its bit modest budget. Bioware needs to start figuring out schedules and studio reservations and whatnot for 48(!!!) different voice actors. That one single sentence is 48(fourtyeight!!) different people in 3 different languages. That's an incredible burden to drag with current TOR budget. Various logistical issues alone are of immense scale. Which actor has time and when? Where will this person be recorded? How to even reach that one guy. Whos gonna reach out for the French folks this time? ...All this hazzle without even considering the cost in dollars.(salaries, studio time and all that)

 

Only way to even in theory have any significant story progression that'd be able to outrace a snail would have to involve axing the playerchar voice acting from future content. Would you support such cause? Or would you rather settle for budget revovling around full voice acting at current rather..modest rate of new content?

 

It'd not be all bad at all I think.I've always felt full VA takes little bit away from roleplaying the character. Fully coice acted, fully written playercharacter feels like it belongs to the voice actor more and to the player less. World where all NPCs are full voice acted and player's dialogue is just selection of bit abstract keywords gives plenty of room for roleplaying and head cannon. Reactions are abstract and largely unformed..but they are all yours. Dragon Age: Origins and Skyrim work as examples here. KOTOR as well, ofc.

 

 

 

Bit offtopic but hey!

 

In general, what is popular video game storytelling is just so weird. Fully voice acted characters reading scripts. This stuff draws from movies and series. Or from radioplays. In doing so, it abandons tons of unique aspects and strenghts of video games as a format. Video games trying to emulate movies is bit like having movies try to emulate the experience of book being read. If you imagine a two hour movie that amounts to nothing more than one person sitting still on an empty stage, reading a book you basically reach what video game storytelling is - stuck in emulating other medium, abandoning its own potential and strngths. Imho in perfect world, emeregent highly dynamic narrative is where it'd be at for video games. Specially for MMOs. There are tons of succesfull and unsuccesfull experiments on field of emergent narrative. Its just that they are rarely all that popular or liked among gamers. We *like* it that videogame storytelling mostly tries to emulate movies and series instead of being their own thing. In many ways, it is a shame. (and if you gonna claim getting to pick one from 3 different replies Jennifer Hale has recorded is " emergent", I'm gonna scream.)

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stradlin

[Eckrond]

No, it made Alliance missions of KotFE feel kind of cheap and detracted from the narrative that had already been established in the span of the game up until that point; ultimately, while KoToR 1 and 2 are fondly remembered their dialogue options were weighty and I would suspect are the most indifferent thing people react to on replays. Giving us 8 different things to say to Yuun before recruiting him didn't enhance the experience in any way, and at worse it made the interaction tedious, and is that the goal? To make players feel exhausted to interact with quest givers? I've played a few WoW characters to end game and I couldn't tell you what reason I did 99% of the quests in that game because I wasn't going to read two paragraphs of flavor text, but watching your highly customized character speak and interact is one of the amazing charms that makes SWTOR still incredibly unique in the MMORPG space.

 

I would argue that, for Skyrim and Fallout 4, the main narrative is not at all the intended focus for the game: it's there to play and enjoy if you feel you need a justification for what you're doing in this world, but as someone who ran off to the east after Riverwood and didn't unlock dragons in Skyrim until I was level 40, the game clearly had a bigger focus on immersion into the world - this is possible with SWTOR, but clearly not the focus as SWTOR focuses more on the general narrative of these 8 (and eventually 1) stories that inject your character onto the stage to experience them. Would an Elder Scrolls style Old Republic game be awesome? Absolutely, but it's not what SWTOR or even KoToR was and, I would argue, that KOTOR would have been a better game had it had the type of cutscenes we see in SWTOR - one of the reason Mass Effect became what it was, for example.

 

So yeah, no; VA for the player character is part of the immense charm and experience of being engaged with SWTOR the whole way through, at least for me.

[Stradlin]

 

So yeah, no; VA for the player character is part of the immense charm and experience of being engaged with SWTOR the whole way through, at least for me.

 

Of course, nobody would take any of what is already there away from you.

 

It is such a damned if you do vs damned if you don't think. Super slow content drops and very little options vs (potentially) more story content and more options in dialogue. To me, notion of having 8 genuinely different ways to react to some things sounds very refreshing when compared to the usual 3.

 

Of course, getting tons of more content by dropping VA isn't some given. That being what keeps content drops so slow and modest seems like a pretty safe bet tho.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stradlin

[Eckrond]

To me, notion of having 8 genuinely different ways to react to some things sounds very refreshing when compared to the usual 3. .

 

But that's the point, you wouldn't get that, and we saw that with the Alliance missions; because SWTOR does not have the potential for branching paths or world immersion like Fallout or Skyrim, you get 8 dialogue choices that ultimately lead to the same interaction. I will point out that what you're suggesting, once again, was already done with KotFE and KotET, but I don't know anyone who looks back on Alliance Missions as a fond interaction and you even neglect to mention them at all, even though it's what you want and for the reasons you wanted.

[kage_goomba]

You remove VA - you lose half your playerbase - if not more imho

 

People don't like reading.

It may sound weird - but its the one common (albeit stupid) complaint (not that they would admit it) - I mean this is an adventure game - what would be the point of playing if there's no story?

 

Yet I find more and more players care more for "Action" and less for the story bit.

One of the things that keeps me here in spite of all the garbage over 7.0 - is just that - the story - WITH voice acting.

Too many players just skip/push/speed through the game to mash buttons.

 

Voice Acting is a natural "Brake" that makes people stop and listen.

It adds emotion - it adds layers that you won't get from text alone.

While the imagination is a powerful thing - in this day and age - people are very limited in that regard.

It's also kind of a big boost to quality of the game as anyone can just slap text up on a screen - but to Voice it out - shows extra effort.

 

However as I say this - this game's player voice actor was heavily recycled - but then its better than nothing.

 

Granted I may find myself outnumbered here on the forums - but as I said - people generally don't call it out - but its obvious if you read between the lines - VA is a good anchor point - and it should be maintained.

Budget wise I get it can be spendy - but it has massive returns if done right.

 

Just one Togruta's opinion.

[Pricia]

Yeah I'd quit right there. It's what drew me to the game in the first place.

[TrixxieTriss]

As much as I understand the logic of losing VA to keep the game on, I think it would do a great disservice to the games rep. If it comes down to dumping VA for new story content, then I say no. I’d rather the game bow out gracefully and shut than gut the one thing thats always defined swtor.

[Stradlin]

As much as I understand the logic of losing VA to keep the game on, I think it would do a great disservice to the games rep. If it comes down to dumping VA for new story content, then I say no. I’d rather the game bow out gracefully and shut than gut the one thing thats always defined swtor.

 

It'd mostly be about how they announce it. And more importantly, how they execute what comes after. "Yeah ok sorry. No more PCVA. Stay tuned for pretty exciting 2023 tho!" wouldn t go down well. If they were to put money where the newly silenced mouth is tho and couple the bad news with significant patch of high quality story content showcasing what can be done with their newly gained freedom..you'd see people converting.

 

People who are very absolute about this.. Are you content with current phase of new story driven content? Or do you hope that it somehow gets better and picks up as time moves on?

 

I will point out that what you're suggesting, once again, was already done with KotFE and KotET, but I don't know anyone who looks back on Alliance Missions as a fond interaction and you even neglect to mention them at all, even though it's what you want and for the reasons you wanted.

 

I think it is bit useless to hear "let's drop PC VA" and start thinking of Kotfe companion alerts. These were pretty low ambition filler stuff. There are plenty of examples, recent and otherwise, of voice acted games with silent PC that have delivered excellent well liked narrative. Besides previous examples, story and writing of FF XIV is widely praised as one of the best among MMOs. Heck, some claim it up there among RPGs in general. PC there certainly never speaks a single voice acted word. Most NPCs don't. Yet, game is incredibly popular and its story content praised. Ultimately this stuff boils down to execution and quality of writing. If writing and characters are great, much of all the rest can be easily forgiven or endured. ..And if writing is bad or uncreative or low effort, who cares if its voice acted or not?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stradlin

[kimiko_tomiyama]

A character with no voice at all... no thanks. I remember that with Knights and not fondly. It was tedious.

Now having characters without voice actors speaking basic? A Duros, Roadian, Wookie, or the like would certainly get me interested in spending my cartel points and making a new character. I can see why some races such and Jawas might not be feasible with the character skeletal frams, no matter how much fun a Sith Sorc might be. Likewise a droid might not be practical (no matter how much fun a Jedi HK might be). But even with those limits there could still be some interesting options.

[Sarova]

Wasn't this same thread or similar posted a few months ago? Anyway...

Yeah I'd quit right there. It's what drew me to the game in the first place.

Same.

If they went to the same crap text-only option they did for the companion returns during/after KotFE and many other conversations since for player characters, that's me done with SWTOR. As TrixxieTriss said:

As much as I understand the logic of losing VA to keep the game on, I think it would do a great disservice to the games rep. If it comes down to dumping VA for new story content, then I say no. I’d rather the game bow out gracefully and shut than gut the one thing thats always defined swtor.

It'd mostly be about how they announce it. And more importantly, how they execute what comes after. "Yeah ok sorry. No more PCVA. Stay tuned for pretty exciting 2023 tho!" wouldn t go down well. If they were to put money where the newly silenced mouth is tho and couple the bad news with significant patch of high quality story content showcasing what can be done with their newly gained freedom..you'd see people converting.

 

People who are very absolute about this.. Are you content with current phase of new story driven content? Or do you hope that it somehow gets better and picks up as time moves on?

Not for me. I've already accepted that the story content will never be as good as it was for the class stories; the current one-for-all style of story telling started with Ilum. They just don't have the resources to make stories individual any more and I don't think cutting character voices is likely to alter this. The immersion I experience would be lost and no amount of good announcements would change my opinion or "convert" me.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Sarova

[Shwarzchild]

This is something I've really been thinking over the last week or so. They can't ditch voice acting. This game was built and more importantly marketed and sold as a fully voiced mmorpg. That can not change. In 10 years though they have never really understood how to make that work from a business stand point (strictly third party claim there nothing factual just all the feelz). In true BW Austin form, there's bloat associated with the voice acting that can definitely be removed.

 

For example: there are two quests on Onderon that are daily that have fully voiced over acting. The quest to tame the tamed or whatever, and the Shae Visla one (for the republic side). Those are just not necessary. The voice over acting can be restricted to things like overall planetary quest chains, class story...the big stuff. Losing the voice stuff would just completely remove the remaining identity of the game. They've already deleted the identity from companions, class story. They're barely a bioware type game anymore as is. I know I got into this because it was from Bioware first and foremost. I had never played an MMO before this. I instantly fell in love with the class stories and that the game stayed true to having meaningful companions. Then as I got more comfortable I branched out to group content. Now though? It's...yeah it's much much more shallow. And I think that shallowness definitely takes away from what this game could deliver since it really could still deliver just an overly epic experience on top of the good that's here already.

 

The potentially sad fact for BW Austin is that if they ever really want this game to grow again they have to invest into it with actual playable content that must include voice. And they have to pair that with a change in philosophy to ditching the every sub gets the new content for free and its all paid for, and all comes out at the same time. Pushing out small things over time makes it seem like there's significantly less to the expansions no matter if there is or there isn't. They've already destroyec companions so leave that section alone.

 

They seem way more interested in catering to the whales and trying to treat this like a mobile game than a real mmo these days.

[Stradlin]

Wasn't this same thread or similar posted a few months ago? Anyway...

 

:

 

Most def not the last or first time the suggestion is made. Somehow it is starting to feel more and more urgent.

 

 

Truly can't envy BW in this regard. They know most of the people are here for story content and like their voice acted PCs well. Yet, in current situation..well, we all seen the rate with which new content comes out. What little arrives gets stretched so thin that even good writing suffers from it. Dropping PCVA could possibly help with this, but BW knows majority of people dislike the idea. and, unfortunately, might never do it for this reason. So what is left? BW hoping that few " let's chat about Malgus around this map for 2 mins" get togethers and new 4 hour lasting "expansions" every two or threre years keeps people happy and subscribed. I sense latter being a huge issue.

 

 

. I've already accepted that the story content will never be as good as it was for the class stories; the current one-for-all style of story telling started with Ilum. They just don't have the resources to make stories individual any more and I don't think cutting character voices is likely to alter this.

 

Dropping PCVA could potentially open this door again. Continuations of class stories. Or have bit more class specific content, at least.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stradlin

[xordevoreaux]

Going forward, should SWTOR drop voice acted PlayerChars?

No. I prefer immersion.

[Tashia]

Yeah I'd quit right there. It's what drew me to the game in the first place.

 

Same here -- me too, in about 2 seconds

[JediQuaker]

Just imagine how long it takes Siri to record everything she says. 😂

[MystyqeofXev]

No.

 

/5char

[Cedia]

Nope, bad idea.

 

The voice acting is what sets this game apart from others. If they take that away, then I take myself away from this game.

 

I can't even stand the alert mode when they go back to the KotOR UI.

[Gokkus]

Nope, hearing the voice of the characters makes me far more attached to them. It is a great deal more immersive this way and should remain so.

 

If they would want to go that way in terms of reduced costs then let them start by removing French and German VO...

(I am allowed to say that as I am a none native speaker )

 

However the biggest problem with that would not even be that English would be the only available language, but that their characters would change voices...that would bum me out for sure.

[jedimasterjac]

While I'd prefer it, I think it's too much of this game's identity, and it's far too late into the game's life, for them to consider this.

[HoloTweed]

Dropping PCVA could potentially open this door again. Continuations of class stories. Or have bit more class specific content, at least.

 

Dropping PCVA would also be dropping any incentive I would have to sub or play. They've already deprived us of the majority of companions ever saying anything (sort of mute zombie mannequin companions) but if my alts stop speaking too then it means we're back to the interaction from KOTFE/ET and I'm out of here.

[Darka]

The concerns regarding the impact of voice acting have been raised since before the game launched. while I agree there maybe benefits to your suggestion,

But after 10 years, I can't see it changing now

[denavin]

Absolutely Not!

It's the Voices of our characters and the cinematic style of play, that makes Bioware different from every other run of the mill, hack and slash MMO out there.

 

Without your characters Voice and Story, then it becomes just another mindless, kill everything that moves game and not Star Wars the Old Republic.

It's the Story and the Telling of that Story that makes SWToR what it is. A SILENT version would be unacceptable.

Edited December 14, 2021 by denavin

[Stradlin]

No. I prefer immersion.

 

 

It isn't so binary. For some, silent PC is more immersive. PC whose reactions are bit abstract and text based can be easier to roleplay than a character who " belongs " to a voice actor.

 

Just to be clear, in some perfect world of infinite budgets, I'd rather have 200 hour, 200.000 word story fully voice acted vs partially voice acted. Sadly it isn't a perfect world. Rate with which story of SWTOR progresses is really slow now. *IF* ditcing PCVA would result in more/faster/better story, I'd be willing to ditch PCVA in a second.

 

This isn't 1st or last thread like this to be made here. Reponse usually been pretty much the same iirc. It kinda puzzles me; its not like dialogue of PC can that often arise into some epic proportions.Most all that PC says just serves to punctuate exposition by NPC anyway. Yet, ppl love it dearly./shrug

Edited December 14, 2021 by Stradlin

[SithKoriandr]

No. If they drop VAs, this game loses what makes it, it.

 

I don't mind games with no voice acting. One of my favorite MMOs has no voice acting. But VA is not part of that games charm.

 

And Alliance Alerts suck because of it.

[OlBuzzard]

As much as I understand the logic of losing VA to keep the game on, I think it would do a great disservice to the games rep. If it comes down to dumping VA for new story content, then I say no. I’d rather the game bow out gracefully and shut than gut the one thing thats always defined swtor.

 

^^^^^ exactly this ^^^^^

 

IMO there is NO SUBSTITUTE for one of the key factors which has been such a large part of defining SWTOR.

 

I remember the days during the "strike" during the early part of KotFE ... it was horrible. But most of us understood what was happening. I was personally really glad when the VA's returned !!