Changes and New Features in 7.0

[TrixxieTriss]

weapons in the outfit designer should work in 7.1... so we are told

 

And you honestly believe they’ll have it 100% working by then?

[ZUHFB]

Which is why a bunch of people like myself will unsub till then. Sadly, I don’t think the game can afford to lose many paying players till the middle of the year and beyond. It’s possible this will eat into EAs profit margins enough that they may even consider shuttering the game by the end of the year.

 

Bioware really have made some major blunders here that is going to negatively impact their own revenue stream. First they’ve pissed off enough players with their ability pruning, removing moddable gear and nerfing conquest to impact the subscriber base. But they’ve also F’d up the weapons outfitter so that people won’t be buying anymore CM weapons till at least 7.1.

 

This whole debacle is such a big Bioware “own goal”. If they lose revenue, I won’t be at all surprised if EA pull even more funding or decide to close some servers or even shutter the game early because it’s not making enough profit as a percentage for their shareholders.

 

I really don't understand how non-modable is a problem - players that are clicking are still gonna click with non-modable gear and players that can play this game will still be good, gear is a pathetic excuse for someone doing no damage. Truth is that it really just doesn't matter, it doesn't even matter now - your so called alacrity range is from 1200 to 1500 with all of them being somewhat viable, or something like this. You know how they should've called the alacrity range? Just do whatever, because you can do whatever - it does not matter! So why does it all of a sudden matter now? I get that min-maxing your character can be a lot of fun but it is still min-maxed with the new gear! You can still get BiS... this **** is so dumb I cannot even wrap my head around it, OH BTW you are ALREADY limited in terms of gear! You cannot obtain every accuracy or alacrity value, the just make this range bigger which then again would meet the SAME BiS requirements as current gear. Moreover probably more people will have decent gear now since its not as complicated to swap out 20 different mods for a mod that gives you 0.1 BONUS damage more - for reference a single crit in a fight will matter more than this mod WHICH DOESN'T EVEN WORK IN 95% OF THE GAME.

 

Its just a complete clown fiesta, ******** on the gear changes doesn't make any sense at all. Quit over the weapon designer not being in 7.0, at least that is reasonable!

[Pricia]

They have been clear that 7.1 will not bring mods for the majority of players. To access the mod vendor we will need ilvl 334 from the HM operation. So best case is 7.2 for the rest of us, so maybe August?

 

Not for mods.

 

For the weapon outfitter to work... supposedly.

 

I mean, having only one slot for weapons on PTS was a bad sign already.

 

Edit: and I agree that quitting over a temporary cosmetic thing is a little bit of an overreaction.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Pricia

[tobarstep]

Quit over the weapon designer not being in 7.0, at least that is reasonable!

 

That goes hand in hand with the non-moddable issue. Weapons above 75 will not have mods in them that you can rip out and put in other weapons, so the only way you can use your CM-purchased weapons (the ones you paid real-world money for unless you bought them from a GTN reseller) is if you gimp yourself by staying at item rating 306. The weapon outfitter would have solved this issue.

[Damask_Rose]

Not for mods.

 

For the weapon outfitter to work... supposedly.

 

I mean, having only one slot for weapons on PTS was a bad sign already.

 

I will be pleasantly surprised if they have weapons in the outfitter working smoothly by 7.2, let alone 7.1. It would be best if they took their time and did it right, and that would entail separating the weapon from the outfit. With combat styles, it makes no sense to tie an outfit to just one weapon.

[Pricia]

I will be pleasantly surprised if they have weapons in the outfitter working smoothly by 7.2, let alone 7.1. It would be best if they took their time and did it right, and that would entail separating the weapon from the outfit. With combat styles, it makes no sense to tie an outfit to just one weapon.

 

Yeah that's the only way it's going to work.

 

That or each outfit has slots for weapons for both combat styles, and it switches automatically (that would be my choice, personally - imagine being able to switch your weapons to match your outfit, crystals and all!).

[TrixxieTriss]

I really don't understand how non-modable is a problem - players that are clicking are still gonna click with non-modable gear and players that can play this game will still be good, gear is a pathetic excuse for someone doing no damage. Truth is that it really just doesn't matter, it doesn't even matter now - your so called alacrity range is from 1200 to 1500 with all of them being somewhat viable, or something like this. You know how they should've called the alacrity range? Just do whatever, because you can do whatever - it does not matter! So why does it all of a sudden matter now? I get that min-maxing your character can be a lot of fun but it is still min-maxed with the new gear! You can still get BiS... this **** is so dumb I cannot even wrap my head around it, OH BTW you are ALREADY limited in terms of gear! You cannot obtain every accuracy or alacrity value, the just make this range bigger which then again would meet the SAME BiS requirements as current gear. Moreover probably more people will have decent gear now since its not as complicated to swap out 20 different mods for a mod that gives you 0.1 BONUS damage more - for reference a single crit in a fight will matter more than this mod WHICH DOESN'T EVEN WORK IN 95% OF THE GAME.

 

Its just a complete clown fiesta, ******** on the gear changes doesn't make any sense at all. Quit over the weapon designer not being in 7.0, at least that is reasonable!

 

See, the weapon designer actually means very little to me. If that was the only problem I certainly wouldn’t be quitting the game. So, we all have different reasons and breaking points for leaving the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

I will be pleasantly surprised if they have weapons in the outfitter working smoothly by 7.2, let alone 7.1. It would be best if they took their time and did it right, and that would entail separating the weapon from the outfit. With combat styles, it makes no sense to tie an outfit to just one weapon.

 

In the meantime, the easiest solution to all our problems is for BioWare to just make all the gear moddable like it was in 5.0 or better yet, 6.0

[arunav]

In the meantime, the easiest solution to all our problems is for BioWare to just make all the gear moddable like it was in 5.0 or better yet, 6.0

 

Or 1.0? We've always had moddable gear, the entire time the game has been live.

 

More difficult to change mods with an Xbox controller or something similar, though, moving forward.

 

Buying CM items, on the other hand...

 

And if that theory is incorrect, maybe BW is just trying to sabotage and put the game in full maintenance until Disney pulls its plug, as they don't really get much of a budget for actual game content, only the online casino/store component. Make a list of things you'd have to do to drive off subscribers of different kinds in the player base, and then go over 7.0's features.

 

And if that theory is incorrect, there must be something really quite wrong with how the studio is choosing to assign folks to work on SWTOR.

Edited January 31, 2022 by arunav

[Rolodome]

Or 1.0? We've always had moddable gear, the entire time the game has been live.

 

More difficult to change mods with an Xbox controller or something similar, though, moving forward.

 

Buying CM items, on the other hand...

 

And if that theory is incorrect, maybe BW is just trying to sabotage and put the game in full maintenance until Disney pulls its plug, as they don't really get much of a budget for actual game content, only the online casino/store component. Make a list of things you'd have to do to drive off subscribers of different kinds in the player base, and then go over 7.0's features.

 

And if that theory is incorrect, there must be something really quite wrong with how the studio is choosing to assign folks to work on SWTOR.

My guess for the least conspiratorial explanation would be that it's a result of someone new coming in who wants to "shake things up" and is going to "turn the game around" and they fire the team up and get community managers to promise things the devs can't deliver on, but they don't at all understand the game or resources they are working with, so it ends up being a disaster. Or maybe not someone new, but either way, someone obsessed with "modernizing." I mean, if you look at some of the changes in broad strokes: weapon designer, loadouts, overhaul for the look of character creation, mob tagging, changing the in-game UI, trying to simplify number of abilities or change when you get them. It's kinda got that imprint of "I'm going to modernize this old game", doesn't it? "It's the 10th anniversary and we're going to freshen up this old stale game!" But then half the stuff they're being asked to do doesn't even work well because it's on such terrible infrastructure.

 

What 10th anni probably should have been is putting resources into modernizing the infrastructure backend, not frontend. I know they aren't gonna get the budget for wholesale engine rewrites, but just modernizing more systems. Refactoring stuff, cleaning some of the spaghetti, so they can go into 10th year strong. That would have been an actually good investment, I think. They seem to have focused on frontend instead and so the result is not only a bunch of changes that are too broad strokes and sweeping for long time players to ever be ok with them, but are also buggy and half-realized. Nobody would complain about them making the game run better or have less bugs. Drastically changing or removing long-standing systems, on the other hand, is easily one of the most dangerous (for audience longevity) things you can do to a video game. Heck, one time I drastically changed some things in a mod I made for a video game and I think at least one person quit using it because they liked it the old way. I learned my lesson to be more thoughtful about it after that.

[TrixxieTriss]

Or 1.0? We've always had moddable gear, the entire time the game has been live.

 

More difficult to change mods with an Xbox controller or something similar, though, moving forward.

 

Buying CM items, on the other hand...

 

And if that theory is incorrect, maybe BW is just trying to sabotage and put the game in full maintenance until Disney pulls its plug, as they don't really get much of a budget for actual game content, only the online casino/store component. Make a list of things you'd have to do to drive off subscribers of different kinds in the player base, and then go over 7.0's features.

 

And if that theory is incorrect, there must be something really quite wrong with how the studio is choosing to assign folks to work on SWTOR.

 

One could suggest that some of the devs or leads are using swtor to buff their resume portfolio or use swtor as a training tool.

And what do I mean by that?

Say you’ve worked on swtor for a few years as a systems support dev, you’re really only a maintenance dev because you didn’t design the systems.

So how do you demonstrate your design skills to a future employer? You start redesigning systems that you consider outdated or ones you think you could do better than the original.

I think this is more likely than a conspiracy to sabotage the game. But their attempts to make things better or different are actually negatively affecting the game.

I personally wish they would realise the old adage… “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”… is the probably the best way forward 90% of the time.

Hopefully those in charge of this debacle learn from it in their future endeavours. Because sadly, I doubt anyone will be held accountable.

Edited January 31, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

[Sarfux]

if you really think about it, there's nothing they are EXPANDING in this expansion. what's completely new that's adding on to the game? combat styles. That's it.

 

everything else is just unnecessary changes for the sake of change. and I will agree with them trying to get as many people out of here as possible perhaps. you don't go changing the ui, combat abilities, skills, and the way leveling works in your game after 10 YEARS of it being just fine...without TRYING to actively do something.

 

also, if it is "modernization"? screw that. since most modern things are utterly nonsensical and terrible change for the sake of change.

 

I hope I'm wrong and I can eat my words. because I will lol

[Sarfux]

See, the weapon designer actually means very little to me. If that was the only problem I certainly wouldn’t be quitting the game. So, we all have different reasons and breaking points for leaving the game.

 

you know things are bad, when people are talking about weapon designer , a cosmetic thing, rather than anything else coming in the "expansion", that's not really EXPANDING anything :confused:

[Sarfux]

I will be pleasantly surprised if they have weapons in the outfitter working smoothly by 7.2, let alone 7.1. It would be best if they took their time and did it right, and that would entail separating the weapon from the outfit. With combat styles, it makes no sense to tie an outfit to just one weapon.

 

or..ya know...they can leave it alone and put their energy into other aspects of the game, instead of taking out something we have had since 1.0

[Pricia]

if you really think about it, there's nothing they are EXPANDING in this expansion. what's completely new that's adding on to the game? combat styles. That's it.

 

 

Looks like you keep conveniently forgetting that we're getting more story.

 

Expansions have always been released around a story, and it's the case, again. It's a story-centered MMO, in case you forgot.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Pricia

[Sarfux]

At this point I no longer feel disappointment in 7.0, I just pity the Bioware staff. I can't imagine any of them plan on putting this on their resumes. This has been a shockingly bad cluster f*ck when it was supposed to be a grand 10 year celebration. They've been hyping it for what, a couple of years or more? But what we've seen on the PTS is a skimpy, buggy, poorly designed mess.

 

So for the actual 10 year anniversary, we got a rerun of the 9 year anniversary. The actual "expansion" is nothing to be proud of. The content and QoL improvements we keep getting told are ever so exciting are very few and mostly significant downgrades. The few real features we have/had to look forward to have been buggy messes, and now a big one has been delayed even further. I'm really curious as to what in 7.0 they thought players would like beyond a bit of story, combat styles, loadouts and weapons in the designer?

 

If I were Bioware, I'd be trying to do some damage control, but they haven't been. When do they anticipate 7.1? (I've seen people expecting 7.1 in March!) Are they anticipating having weapons in the designer by then or has it been delayed indefinitely? How many patches before non-NiM raiders can modify gear? What are all the other exciting additions Keith was alluding to, and when can we expect them? Are they really going to be things that players will find exciting, or are they really just more empty marketing hype for changes no one wanted in the first place?

they won't do damage control . they don't care anymore. the game is going to become a shell of it's former great self. 7.0 is going to be bad for it. I'm generally an overall optimistic person and like to see things in a positive light, but I also am grounded in being realistic.

 

expansions usually EXPAND ONTO THE GAME. they dont take things away, dramatically change things, alter aspects we have had for YEEARSS, and bring NOTHING new to the table! this is a travesty and disgusting. Pathetic what they are doing to swtor!

 

Poor swtor it doesn't deserve this! if they are going this route? as much as i LOVE this game? just close the doors... this is insulting and pathetic.

[Sarfux]

Ok... I'll add to list of things that are being downgraded by 7.0

 

Is anyone still looking forward to 7.0?

 

im personally over it. im just waiting to see what announcements and stuff will come out. there was a window where i got soo excited for the 10 year anniversary and expansion. but between the lack of them botching a comeback of Jadus which was setup PERFECTLY, them not having any trailers like kotfe for the BIG "exciting" 10 year anniversary, and announcement of removal of things, and constant pruning of game systems? i'm over it....

 

w/e happens, happens now. pathetically sad what they are doing to this game. swtor deserves better

[Sarfux]

Looks like you keep conveniently forgetting that we're getting more story.

 

Expansions have always been released around a story, and it's the case, again. It's a story-centered MMO, in case you forgot.

 

seems you keep defending this. interesting... and dont be condescending to me. "in case you forgot"

 

nice little passive aggressiveness in there

[Pricia]

seems you keep defending this. interesting... and dont be condescending to me. "in case you forgot"

 

nice little passive aggressiveness in there

 

Defending what? Facts?

[Lyriel]

Looks like you keep conveniently forgetting that we're getting more story.

 

Expansions have always been released around a story, and it's the case, again. It's a story-centered MMO, in case you forgot.

 

We are getting precisely as much story as fits in a single flashpoint with a bit of dialogue wrapper. Yes, that is additive, but minimal - especially for a 'story-centered MMO.'

[Toraak]

We are getting precisely as much story as fits in a single flashpoint with a bit of dialogue wrapper. Yes, that is additive, but minimal - especially for a 'story-centered MMO.'

 

This is not true. We will be getting the story on Manaan as well. We won't be getting the daily area for Manaan when 7.0 releases, but we will be getting it's story.

 

Just because you didn't see it on the PTS doesn't mean that Manaan's story isn't still there. BW Never puts the story parts on the PTS because they don't want to spoil it for us.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Toraak

[Lyriel]

This is not true. We will be getting the story on Manaan as well. We won't be getting the daily area for Manaan when 7.0 releases, but we will be getting it's story.

 

Just because you didn't see it on the PTS doesn't mean that Manaan's story isn't still there. BW Never puts the story parts on the PTS because they don't want to spoil it for us.

 

Manaan is where I expect some of the dialogue wrapper to take place. Without the daily area, I don't think we'll get the story bits that set that up yet either. Most daily areas simply reprise missions that you do in that area as part of the story, after all... No daily area strongly implies none of the missions that become daily missions.

[Pricia]

We are getting precisely as much story as fits in a single flashpoint with a bit of dialogue wrapper. Yes, that is additive, but minimal - especially for a 'story-centered MMO.'

 

Again, the story wasn't on PTS - so nobody knows how big it's going to be but there's more than one Flashpoint for sure.

 

We're getting Manaan too. I don't know how big it will be but I would be surprised if we got Manaan now and they gave us ANOTHER Manaan area in 7.1. My guess would be that it's about the size of Ossus and they'll just add in dailies and weeklies in 7.1... because I can't imagine why they would make two different areas when they could make one.

 

So anyway, yes, we're getting actually new content in 7.0.

[Lyriel]

Again, the story wasn't on PTS - so nobody knows how big it's going to be but there's more than one Flashpoint for sure.

 

We're getting Manaan too. I don't know how big it will be but I would be surprised if we got Manaan now and they gave us ANOTHER Manaan area in 7.1. My guess would be that it's about the size of Ossus and they'll just add in dailies and weeklies in 7.1... because I can't imagine why they would make two different areas when they could make one.

 

So anyway, yes, we're getting actually new content in 7.0.

 

I see your goalposts shifted.

 

A story FP + wrapper and an area in which you can't do anything but gawk are "new content," sure. But again - it's definitely on the skimpy side, especially compared to what was promised.

[Sarfux]

I see your goalposts shifted.

 

A story FP + wrapper and an area in which you can't do anything but gawk are "new content," sure. But again - it's definitely on the skimpy side, especially compared to what was promised.

 

her goalposts move constantly to fit the current quote she's on

 

if she doesn't like it? she'll say some passive aggressive stuff to ya