Favoring casuals over your core fanbase

[xordevoreaux]

You can't say that players aren't leaving this game rapidly, it would be absolutely wrong.

Actually, I can say players are flocking to the game. We've gained over 58K members since last year:

This shows a population for SWTOR of 286,480 for 2020.

This shows we've grown to 345,039 so far this year.

 

Your false narrative is looking more pathetic every time you try to defend it.

Edited August 3, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[Raphael_diSanto]

There are so many more of us filthy casuals than hardcore players. I know this from experience. I've been on both sides.

 

I was a hardcore raider in EQ, back in 2001, when game mechanics were actually challenging, and you didn't have a "rotation" to rely on, or voice chat to make communication easier. I got older, my life filled up with other things, and I lost the desire to treat video games as a second job.

 

But I remember making the "learn2play u noob" posts, back in the day. But even EQ had it's share of casual players, even with it's punishing XP grind, corpse runs, farming and camping times. People who wanted to chill out, relax, and make some animated pixels fall over.

[xordevoreaux]

There are so many more of us filthy casuals than hardcore players. I know this from experience. I've been on both sides.

 

I was a hardcore raider in EQ, back in 2001, when game mechanics were actually challenging, and you didn't have a "rotation" to rely on, or voice chat to make communication easier. I got older, my life filled up with other things, and I lost the desire to treat video games as a second job.

 

But I remember making the "learn2play u noob" posts, back in the day. But even EQ had it's share of casual players, even with it's punishing XP grind, corpse runs, farming and camping times. People who wanted to chill out, relax, and make some animated pixels fall over.

 

And on top of all that, straight guys had to contend with certain mobile distractions on the zombie pirate women on Gunthak beach.

Edited August 3, 2021 by xordevoreaux

[Raphael_diSanto]

And on top of all that, straight guys had to contend with certain mobile distractions on the zombie pirate women on Gunthak beach.

 

Haha, I left around the same time as Ykesha. I don't think I ever experienced that......

[Severith]

Actually, I can say players are flocking to the game. We've gained over 58K members since last year:

This shows a population for SWTOR of 286,480 for 2020.

This shows we've grown to 345,039 so far this year.

 

Your false narrative is looking more pathetic every time you try to defend it.

 

From that very website being quoted:

 

"It's difficult to track hidden MMO subscriber numbers, but we do our best!

 

By combining online social activity, sentiment tracking, public statistics, rankings and more MMO Populations estimates the total subscribers, players and active daily players for the top MMOs. Above is the total number of tracked players by the site."

 

In other words, they've got an algorithm, one that tracks social media. Okay, fine. But what's one thing SWTOR's got that alot of mmos don't? An intellectual property that sparks social media activity and sentiment. That means SWTOR's numbers are probably inflated, comparted to an mmo that's not part of an established IP.

 

SWTOR has the crutch of being Star Wars. The same algorithm that tracks "random mmo" isn't going to work for a Star Wars game.

 

Are you actually going to trust a site that still says, in 2021, that there are more active Wow players than FF14 players? Cause every other site says FF14 has a larger active userbase.

 

This same site also says Otherland had 622 active users in 2020. Anyone who's seen the Josh Strife Hayes videos knows that's basically impossible. This is a game where getting past the tutorial area puts you in the top 1% of the "playerbase", only has one server, and even though he played for weeks he only saw a couple of people, who were fans of his and downloaded the game for the memes.

 

So what does this 622 people actually mean? It's not people actually playing it on a regular basis, and it's not people paying money into the game. It's 622 people stupid enough to download, get frustrated, and not play Otherland. Via Steam. Which is exactly where SWTOR became downloadable last summer.

 

The site MMO-Population.com site is trash. It's "okay" for getting a general sense of things, but insisting that the hard data shows SWTOR got 58k extra active subscribers is disingenuous at best. Summit1G and Shroud playing a little bit of SWTOR on twitch for a week probably causes some social media activity, which mmo-pop used as reason why they think the population of active subscribers went up.

[ceryxp]

What’s really telling is the last drop started when Galactic Seasons launched, conquest was changed and they removed the referral program and the numbers kept going down until the expansion was announced.

 

Does that mean GS was a failure or that the removal of the referral system was a bad idea or conquest changes made people play less.

 

If I could be bothered I’d go back along that timeline and try and match up patches, game changes and announcements to see if any matches the increases or dips in population. It would be awesome if any one wants to number crunch for the rest of us and try and match up the time line.

 

Here are just a few quick data points (not doing a deep dive right now). The five year stats only go back to September of 2016.

 

Sept 2016 was still in the 4.x release cycle. From 9/2016 to preset the population has increased by 1480% from a low of 30,500 to the current 451,406. The number of active players has increased from 30,500 in 9/2016 to 90,281 in 8/2021, a 296% increase.

 

Population numbers as they correlate to releases are:

• 2016
  • 9 Sept 2016 -- Update 4.7.1 (Shroud of Memory) -- population 30,500 -- active 30,500
    
  • 29 Nov 2016 -- Update 5.0 -- population 62,455 -- active 31,227

  [*]2017

  • 23 Jan 2017 -- Update 5.1 (GC update) -- population 32,226 -- active 32,226
    
  • 18 Apr 2017 -- Update 5.2 (Iokath) -- population 33,120 -- active 33,120
    
  • 11 Jul 2017 -- Update 5.3 (Aivela and Esne) -- population 171,198 -- active 34,240
    
  • 22 Aug 2017 -- Update 5.4 (Umbara) -- population 131,031 -- active 34,508
    
  • 10 Oct 2017 -- Update 5.5 (merge prep) -- population 139,224 -- active 34,806
    
  • 8 Nov 2017 -- Update 5.5.1 (server merge) -- population 140,746 -- active 35,187
    
  • 28 Nov 2017 -- Update 5.6 (Copero)

  [*]2018

  • 23 Jan 2018 -- Update 5.7 (Scyva) -- population 147,448 -- active 36,945
    
  • 20 Mar 2018 -- Update 5.8 (Izax and CQ changes) -- population 76,804 -- active 38,402
    
  • 3 May 2018 -- Update 5.9 (Nathema) -- population 117.180 -- active 39,060
    
  • 11 Dec 2018 -- Update 5.10 (JUS) -- population 209,159 -- active 41,832

  [*]2019

  • 22 Oct 2019 -- Update 6.0 -- population 158,326 -- active 52,775

  [*]2020

  • 13 Feb 2020 -- Update 6.1 (small story and Alderaan stronghold) -- population 254,949 -- active 63,737
    
  • 21 Apr 2020 -- Update 6.1.1 (Conquest changes) -- population 199,441 -- active 66,480
    
  • 9 Dec 2020 -- Update 6.2 (EoO & SoV) -- population 238,400 -- active 79,467
    
  • 24 Jun 2020 -- Update 6.1.2 (Conquest changes) -- population 278,978 -- active 69,745
    
  • 16 Jul 2020 -- Update 6.1.2b (Conquest changes) -- population 212,731 -- active 70,910
    
  • 21 Jul 2020 -- Update 6.1.2c (SWTOR on Steam)
    
  • 20 Oct 2020 -- Update 6.1.4 (major Conquest point changes) -- population 231,108 -- active 77,036

  [*]2021

  • 27 Apr 2021 -- Update 6.3 (GS & SotE) -- population 343,904 -- active 85,976
    
  • Aug 2021 -- population 451,406 -- active 90,281
    

 

** We need better ways of making tables. At the very least the code tag should force monospaced text.

 

So, yeah, there has been some fluctuation, numbers have dipped occasionally, but overall numbers have been on a steady incline since 6.0. Conquest changes have not seemed to have a noticeable effect on population numbers. Contrary to what some might think the population saw a substantial increase immediately following the release of Galactic Seasons and Secrets of the Enclave.

 

True, populations did drop a bit in the two months following GS, June and July 2021, but WOW also saw a drop around the same time (May / June), as did ESO (May / June). FF14 did see a jump from May to June to July. They did release an update in April 2021, and it was followed by some patches during that time frame. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe it was just that people were going outside more after having been confined indoors for so long. If we look at the top five games three of them have had summer lulls (#'s 1, 2, & 4). FF14 did see some gains, and Destiny 2 remained fairly steady. Should we read too much into summer lulls? I do not think so. Almost every game I looked at saw some drop between May and August. Some remained stead, and very few saw gains.

 

The highest point of population and activity was in January 2021 (pop: 488,227, act: 81,371). The current population is only slightly lower and activity has been on a steady increase since January. Many people cited the pandemic as a reason for increased population numbers, and yet the population high of 340,219 in December 2019 steadily dropped to a low of 199,441 in April 2020. Population did see a large jump, from 212,731 in July 2020 to 439,938 in August 2020, following the game's release on Steam, but those numbers quickly fell again to 156,314 in November 2020.

 

So what can we take away from this high level view of the numbers? Numbers dropped fairly low during the 4.x cycle. True, there was a small jump with the release of 5.0, but population and activity numbers did not start their steady climb until 6.0. The content drought between 5.10 in December 2018 and 6.0 in October 2019 certainly did not help population numbers. What is interesting is that there are have been a number of changes to Conquest throughout the 6.x cycle, changes that a number of people have pointed to as reasons for population drops or that they are not playing, and yet activity numbers continue to climb. My takeaway, the things you think are affecting population are probably not affecting population as much as you think they are.

[TrixxieTriss]

I’m a little suspicious of their data collection because there would have been a gap between the server mergers and when swtor went on steam.

Which means there was a period where there was no publicly available server or game numbers (where did they get this numbers). There certainly wasn’t and publicly available data that showed active vs total player base.

I also don’t believe the game only had 30500 players in 4.7.1. There were way more players on Harbinger than there are on Star Forge now and there were 2 east coast servers who had more players than Satele currently has.

Unless Darth Malgus has quadrupled the amount of players of SF and SS combined, I think the data they collected pre-steam is at best not complete and at worst, completely false. Which then makes you question the validity of their current data.

Edited August 3, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[MadDutchman]

This has got to be one of the most disgustingly arrogant threads I've read in this sad affair we got going on. (and that is saying something)

 

Seriously, how can people claim that the "hardcore" "MMO" (whatever the hell that is...) players are a majority? or that they somehow matter more than the casuals? or contribute more to the game?

 

It's appalling, and this thread and other comments like it are proof of the exact opposite. Far too many of the hard core "special snowflake" "MMO" players have become poisonous and destructive, detrimental to the health of the game.

 

I never thought I'd say this (think it's the first time I've done so since I started in beta), but everyone screaming about new NGE, death of the game, sensationalist BS need to go away. Seriously, take you subs and CC purchases and just go to the MMOs that cater to you.

 

If you can only engage in destructive criticism and petty forum insults like this (which presumably spill over into the game as well), your financial support is not worth having you present.

[Hadsil]

Here's the rub about those definitions:

 

What if one does log in and play everyday but they never touch OPs, never touch group PvE, never do PvP. This person plays stories and space barbie exclusively but does enough content to gain conquest on multiple alts every week. By your definitions they don't fit either of those two categories. This person (me) plays way to often to actually count as a casual (if you're posting on the forums you are most definitely NOT a casual.) In fact this person (me) might consider their self a member of the core fanbase as they've been playing for years (6) and on average subscribe 7-9 months of the year.

 

What does casual even mean? There is "relaxed and unconcerned" and there is "not regular or permanent." Which of those definitions defines me or some of the other posters on this thread? I believe the OP intended to mean the latter but most of the people who responded, I believe, identify with the former. Did the OP mean to conflate the two together when contrasting against the "Core Fan Base" or was that something the self proclaimed "casuals" read into the post?

 

And those are questions that we should be asking ourselves before we even begin to get into what "Core Fanbase" means.

 

As long as we all have different ideas of what we're talking about, we can't really ever find common ground. We just end up as internet posters yelling over each other (which is happening way to often on these boards lately.)

 

 

Fine, you play more than twice a week. There's no need to be so literal. The point remains. The Casual/Hard Core divide is just another way of saying those who play for the Story and those who play for the Action. That's where the melding of the combat styles are mattering. Those who play for Story tend to be fine with it. Those who play for Action tend not to be fine with it. Of course this is not universally true, but it doesn't have to be for the point.

[Tsillah]

This has got to be one of the most disgustingly arrogant threads I've read in this sad affair we got going on. (and that is saying something)

 

Seriously, how can people claim that the "hardcore" "MMO" (whatever the hell that is...) players are a majority? or that they somehow matter more than the casuals? or contribute more to the game?

 

It's appalling, and this thread and other comments like it are proof of the exact opposite. Far too many of the hard core "special snowflake" "MMO" players have become poisonous and destructive, detrimental to the health of the game.

 

I never thought I'd say this (think it's the first time I've done so since I started in beta), but everyone screaming about new NGE, death of the game, sensationalist BS need to go away. Seriously, take you subs and CC purchases and just go to the MMOs that cater to you.

 

If you can only engage in destructive criticism and petty forum insults like this (which presumably spill over into the game as well), your financial support is not worth having you present.

 

Well, luckily the forums here are frequented by only a very small percentage of the player base and mostly critical players. That's what brings people here to the forums mostly. So I wouldn't be concerned as much for it spilling over into the game.

 

I do believe that BW are very much aware of this, so they use these forums for feedback but they also use very many other sources like reddit, facebook, twitter, influencers etc. So don't overestimate the impact these forums have is all I'm saying.

[ceryxp]

 

Fine, you play more than twice a week. There's no need to be so literal. The point remains. The Casual/Hard Core divide is just another way of saying those who play for the Story and those who play for the Action. That's where the melding of the combat styles are mattering. Those who play for Story tend to be fine with it. Those who play for Action tend not to be fine with it. Of course this is not universally true, but it doesn't have to be for the point.

 

Regardless of how one tries to couch the argument these discussion always devolve into lobbing No True Scotsman fallacies.

 

"If you just played this, or that, or my way, you would understand, but you are not hard core, you are casual, so you can not, because if you were hard core you would understand, because all true hard core players understand."

 

The fallacy is in thinking that only casuals support these changes, that these changes are being made to support casuals, and that only hard core players know how bad they are and can understand that.

Edited August 4, 2021 by ceryxp

[OlBuzzard]

There are almost as many different styles of play as there are people who play just about any MMO. That is one of the reasons that we consistently see:

** Tanks

** Healers

** DPS

And within those three groups so many different tastes as to how to approach the game:

** Solo: story only

** Solo: Veteran (those who have played story but enjoy a taste of a more challenging aspect of the game ... but would prefer a somewhat less aggressive approach).

** Solo: Master / or Elite ( extreme difficulty level but also doable from a "solo" stand point of view)

_______

** Group (story only) for those who enjoy the story mode ... but also enjoy having their guild / friends along for the story as well.

** Group Veteran : A more intense version of the game probably only completed by guilds or groups.

** Group Master / or Elite (extreme difficulty level even for a group)

 

And the simple fact is that this probably is not inclusive of all aspects of the game and how it's played. IMO it's primarily dealing with individuality. Some folks just don't like.....

 

Severe static and interference begins. Transmission is interrupted .....

 

Unfounded speculation is irrelevant.

Speculation based on incomplete data is irrelevant.

Objections outside of established parameters for compliance is irrelevant.

We are one voice and of one mind: disharmony is invalid and irrelevant.

INDIVIDUALITY is irrelevant.

You will all be added to the collective to service us.

Your distinctiveness will adapt to this game.

 

Resistance is futile

 

[DarkTergon]

I've been playing 10 years constantly......done most content, apart from NiM ops (Have never even tried one)

My sub has never lapsed, I've only ever missed two weeks where I didn't plays at least a few hours every day, 1 week was in hospital, the other was a forced vacation

 

Now, what category do I fit in? Personally I would have thought of myself as a casual player. Especially as of late....which means your premise is wrong, because BW are definitely not catering to me (I could expand on that, but lets not drag that can of worms in here)

 

EA/BW are catering to people who spend money, they have found that a revolving door of people coming in and out, buying their subs, and throwing money at the CM is far more profitable than any other content. It's why they have continually made the game easier to play, these new changes are supposedly going to make it more streamlined (I'll wait for the finished product though) . The bottom line is, this is going to happen, regardless. The bottom line are $$$$$$$$$$, nothing else matters.

[Luckjim]

 

Fine, you play more than twice a week. There's no need to be so literal. .

 

You replied to a post where i asked for definitions and you gave me one. i responded, in good faith, to your definitions. now you criticize me for being too literal. i give up.

[casirabit]

There are almost as many different styles of play as there are people who play just about any MMO. That is one of the reasons that we consistently see:

** Tanks

** Healers

** DPS

And within those three groups so many different tastes as to how to approach the game:

** Solo: story only

** Solo: Veteran (those who have played story but enjoy a taste of a more challenging aspect of the game ... but would prefer a somewhat less aggressive approach).

** Solo: Master / or Elite ( extreme difficulty level but also doable from a "solo" stand point of view)

_______

** Group (story only) for those who enjoy the story mode ... but also enjoy having their guild / friends along for the story as well.

** Group Veteran : A more intense version of the game probably only completed by guilds or groups.

** Group Master / or Elite (extreme difficulty level even for a group)

 

And the simple fact is that this probably is not inclusive of all aspects of the game and how it's played. IMO it's primarily dealing with individuality. Some folks just don't like.....

 

Severe static and interference begins. Transmission is interrupted .....

 

Unfounded speculation is irrelevant.

Speculation based on incomplete data is irrelevant.

Objections outside of established parameters for compliance is irrelevant.

We are one voice and of one mind: disharmony is invalid and irrelevant.

INDIVIDUALITY is irrelevant.

You will all be added to the collective to service us.

Your distinctiveness will adapt to this game.

 

Resistance is futile

 

 

This, I laugh at people trying to put people in their little boxes, saying this or that person plays just for story. I know in our guild we all play everything (minus me I hate pvp lol) but we have done everything in the game but then again most of us have been here since launch. Yes, story is fun but so is dailies, weeklies, flashpoints, etc. I am not sure why people want to put people in boxes just because they have a different opinion about something.

[Varlak]

Casual is kidad the core fanbase of SWtoR. Like 99% of MMO's

[OlBuzzard]

This, I laugh at people trying to put people in their little boxes, saying this or that person plays just for story. I know in our guild we all play everything (minus me I hate pvp lol) but we have done everything in the game but then again most of us have been here since launch. Yes, story is fun but so is dailies, weeklies, flashpoints, etc. I am not sure why people want to put people in boxes just because they have a different opinion about something.

 

Agreed...

 

And to answer your question as to why (it's quite simple actually) :

 

Once placed in a box ... whatever is inside of said container becomes "easier to define". And (even if that review is incorrect) .. they are happy to keep that package right where it's at (or perhaps where they THINK it should be kept !).

 

[Tsillah]

Agreed...

 

And to answer your question as to why (it's quite simple actually) :

 

Once placed in a box ... whatever is inside of said container becomes "easier to define". And (even if that review is incorrect) .. they are happy to keep that package right where it's at (or perhaps where they THINK it should be kept !).

 

Yeah dividing players into groups or types can be a dangerous thing. I mean, it has its uses when you want to determine what types of content to produce and what balance you want to strike in that, but you always have to realise that not everybody in a box or group is exactly the same and a lot of people might fit in more boxes or groups than one.

 

I explained a few times a couple of years ago how I would do the gearing. I basically felt like there should be 3-tracks of gearing PvE casual, PvE raiding and PvP and the base sets would be the same because people might like different things but to progress they would have to do content in that area. This strikes a balance between people liking different things and content being valuable as to progress in it. And because the better versions of gear would specifically be better in that content and not in the other two, it also makes it specific. Of course it would require loadouts but we're getting those.

 

Anyways that's just an example of what sort of thing you could do to appeal to different groups by looking at the content rather than the groups.

 

But the putting in boxes in threads like this is pointless really except to indicate that some people prefer certain types of content over others, but nobody fits in one box perfectly and they might fit in more than one box as it is.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Tsillah

[OlBuzzard]

Yeah dividing players into groups or types can be a dangerous thing. I mean, it has its uses when you want to determine what types of content to produce and what balance you want to strike in that, but you always have to realise that not everybody in a box or group is exactly the same and a lot of people might fit in more boxes or groups than one.

 

I explained a few times a couple of years ago how I would do the gearing. I basically felt like there should be 3-tracks of gearing PvE casual, PvE raiding and PvP and the base sets would be the same because people might like different things but to progress they would have to do content in that area. This strikes a balance between people liking different things and content being valuable as to progress in it. And because the better versions of gear would specifically be better in that content and not in the other two, it also makes it specific. Of course it would require loadouts but we're getting those.

 

Anyways that's just an example of what sort of thing you could do to appeal to different groups by looking at the content rather than the groups.

 

But the putting in boxes in threads like this is pointless really except to indicate that some people prefer certain types of content over others, but nobody fits in one box perfectly and they might fit in more than one box as it is.

 

It's one of the main reasons I have suggested what I did just a couple posts back in this thread.

 

Smart money says that if any part of the game can be instanced ... then it stands to reason that a more challenging system (based on player choice) can be made available.

 

Heck nearly 20+ years ago ( July 1, 2001) when SFC OP (** 1 & **2 see notes) was released the program was set up to AUTO read the number of players, (ship count) and strength ... then release the number of AI accordingly. AND YES those who provided the servers could "adjust" what those parameters were. I would certainly think that by now that could be done on a more sophisticated level to meet the demands of the current MMO populous.

 

(** note1) : SFC: OP was my first on line gaming experience !

(** note2) : SFC: OP was definitely more successful than SFC III in putting together PvP and PvE single player vs multiplayer grouping.

 

In any case.. trying to shove everyone into a box is a bit silly to me personally. It just never seems to work !

 

IMO this is why customizing certain aspects of the game (companions and player looks / options) are almost always a plus in game designs.

[SyphoFighter]

Honest opinion; I genuinely believe ditching the WOW style of this game, and standardising a lot of systems would benefit this game a lot more. Tab target MMO’s have not had the specific jolt they needed to compete with WoW for almost two decades now and you find that other games, such as Destiny and ESO, are able to take a lot of those players away by having a more simplified combat system.

 

Being more accessible has done wondered for a great many games throughout many different genres. Look at Mass Effect 1 vs 2 — Players complained that a simple gear and combat system would kill the game. It didn’t — The very opposite intact.

 

If this game focused less on the MMO side, and more on creating expansions to story/small group content then I really do believe it’d succeed. I very whole heartedly believe this as my opinion, and would not concern it as fact, but if this game just did an chapter of your class story every three months, with one OP a year and a flash point connected. I’d be happy. I’d keep subscribed for that.

 

I’m not a PvP’er so I cannot comment on the state of that.

[Savej]

Honest opinion; I genuinely believe ditching the WOW style of this game, and standardising a lot of systems would benefit this game a lot more. Tab target MMO’s have not had the specific jolt they needed to compete with WoW for almost two decades now and you find that other games, such as Destiny and ESO, are able to take a lot of those players away by having a more simplified combat system...

 

7.0 isn't ditching anything. It's not removing tab targeting. It's not really making things more simple. It's just taking things away from active toolbars. It's entirely likely you will need to setup several "loadouts" for your class that you will need to switch to for specific fights that you will need to know ahead of time. If you want to play 7.0 right now you're free to remove most of your non-attack buttons from your toolbar (assuming you're dps or tank): have fun. Combat, doing dailies on Onderon on test, is more challenging than doing them on live. But rotations, on test at least, aren't changing - you're still going to need to know how to use them. It's mostly the conditional defensive options that are going away - so if something bad happens you'll have fewer ways to handle that. For those that knew how to use them they're going to be missed. And removing them doesn't mean you'll still be able to do the same old content any more easily without them.

 

As far as which mmos are most successful goes, the top two have toolbars every bit as full as swtor has now. Wow classic has more buttons for some classes. Millions are happy to play those games and they are relatively much more loyal customers than most casuals.

 

I'd be interested in a combat redesign for swtor. But not so much along the lines of ESO - ESO did what it did because "console", not because it was trying to make a better PC game. I would call its combat a weakness of that game (for PCs). It makes up for it's combat in other areas. Amazon's combat has similar problems and is similarly a weakness of that game according to people that have played it for more than a few hours. But what swtor is doing is not a redesign, it's just taking scissors to our character's current tools.

[OlBuzzard]

The removal of so much of the game (not just with play style) might very well be due to more of a "console" style or simplification of the overall game mechanics.

 

That would also explain:

** more focus on GSF (making it more functional for console usage and possibly more appealing to a different audience )

** the elimination of interactive companions (also saves money on VA ... wider profit margin). ALSO makes those companions offered on the CM more appealing to a certain audience.

** the overhaul and retool of the UI when the older one was clearly working just fine. (Note : the newer one is still bugged since it never stays where you put it !!!!! )

** and of course now the retooling of combat functions. IMO this whole combat style is more of a "retool" process. AND it almost makes sense.

 

(Please note: I did NOT say I agree with it at all. Simply that IMO the only real thing that seems to make any sense as to WHY this is being done the WAY it is being done is in order to accommodate a console game or other similar approach to the mechanics.) If I'm wrong I would really appreciate some clarification from those who DO KNOW what in the name of common sense is going on !!

[omaan]

Actually, I can say players are flocking to the game. We've gained over 58K members since last year:

This shows a population for SWTOR of 286,480 for 2020.

This shows we've grown to 345,039 so far this year.

 

Your false narrative is looking more pathetic every time you try to defend it.

 

your statistics interpretation is not accurate. What you showing us is that there are more players are engaged into playing MMO games (which is not surprising due to covid situations all over the world). The fact that in 2021 swtor has more population means nothing because compared to your first link swtor dropped down at rank and has 17 place compared to 2020 when it had rank 15. Yes it has 345,039 players but it is due to overall increase of participation in all MMO. My statement can be proven by checking other games from your chart: in 2020 FF14 had 1,544,458 and wow had 2,540,956 active players but in 2021 it's 3,265,729 for wow and 2,427,104 for FF14 correspondingly. IN addition to this, you should use information from more trustworthy sources such as steam - https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830 here you can see that swtor's population is mostly shrinking. It has an increase only during holidays or harsh quarantine restriction periods such as Januart or May 2021. Yet overall statistics is very poor and shows overall decline

[AlaricSevGirl]

IN addition to this, you should use information from more trustworthy sources such as steam

 

You do know that many of the veteran players don't play through steam don't you? We launch through bitrader. So Steam is ALSO not a trustworthy source.

[OlBuzzard]

You do know that many of the veteran players don't play through steam don't you? We launch through bitrader. So Steam is ALSO not a trustworthy source.

 

I'm still using the standard "launcher" ... (whatever that is whatever the game defaults to) !! I've never had any issues or reasons to change it !