Pft, you made it worse.

I am at a loss at how bad this is becoming. I keep hearing all this 'calm down, its going to be ok. The other changes will make up for the ability loss' but every time something new comes out, im stunned. There was so much excitement for 7.0 and everything about 7.0 is not even disappointing, its just disheartening. re loadout: 'choices are permanent' understanding that we have seen nothing about them, this is kind of scary. Why would they be permanent? Does this mean that I can only be an Sent or a Guardian and not Mara or Jugg? This include the combat style? This include the gear? (cause I never change gear stats) this terrible new tree? (cause I never have to spec diff) All it NEEDS to do it remember where on my bar my abilities are - and preferably my gear and this terrible tree. But, can I change....nothing in the load out? I would think it would be 'you get two, and if you change something you then have to save it overriding one that you have' - you know, like any normal program. Can I opt out of loadouts then? Just not use loadout and keep 'respecting' as I do today? I have been know to move even my abilities years later for one reason or another so 'permanent' is the LAST thing I would ever want. I (tried) listening to the interview, and while I get the generic idea for the decision, If these are truly permanent I will NEVER use this. I dont know where the permanent ends and what I can change in the future. If I can only chose two advance classes, fine, really, I could not care less, but when you add in these loadouts being permanent, then you get into all sorts of mess. Am I limited to two combat styles (because loadouts)? What if both my loadouts dont have my ops buff....guess she can never do ops? This sounds like I need more toons.... TLDR two advance classes only - fine two loadouts - fine two PERMANENT loadouts - NOT fine ensure that I can just NOT use loadouts - unknown Not to mention, second to the above: I cant change IN phase? So, if I went from Jugg to Mara I have to leave phase then phase back in? (that, whatever) Can I not change trees in phase? (because permanent loadout) can I not change gear in phase? (because permanent loadout) can I not change combat style? (because permanent loadout) Can I keep respecing as we do today the same way as we do today (in phase)? forgoing these loadouts? Adding this to 'permanent loadouts' why not just have another toon? At this point this is a lot of 'I am not using that' and will stick to still having dozens of toons. Somehow that is less work and defiantly more flexible. In addition, I now have a third reason to why abilities are being 'choices', something that was clear but never stated, and what I have stated before - PVP - class to class balancing. Its not new players (throwing passives and abilities and utility into on big bucket, not new player friendly, sorry) Its not mechanic bypass. Its PVP. Make us 'loadout' (not the way you have described) for PVP then (but, more like star fighter - where, you can change them before going into the match, but not in que or in match). I que for PVP I have to have choices, limited abilities, since that is what it really is affecting. You are damaging all of pve for the sake of pvp. is there a way to NOT go into 7.0? asking for a friend.

First, I am still confused about why these changes are being made. Both responses seem to contradict each other. You want to make the class easier to understand for new players AND you are upset that players are able to cheese mechanics. I'm not sure how this helps new players. I did not play any mmos when I played swtor - yes, it was overwhelming. I could not understand why there were so many abilities. I used slash until my focus was full, then I face rolled until I ran out of focus, then repeat. Never watching when to interrupt, and always using a dcd too late. Then there was the big change (4.0?). Clases lost stances/cells/(not sure what else) and the tree was redone - and you know what I did? I used slash until my focus was full, then I face rolled until I ran out of focus, then repeat. I can tell you one thing for sure - that these changes will not change how new players play. I am not sure how this helps players from bypassing mechanics. I understand some mechanics can be ignored due to dcds, and sent have about three stuns, but a lot of cheesed mechanics are in older content, it is dated - and cheesed by your upper level players mostly. And in lower content, they are not ignored by dcds, it is because the 'hit' does nothing today. While I mostly agree that story mode should be able to be facedrolled so that those players (old me) can just play the game and get the story - this gives the illusion that they can do harder content, and does not teach them how to play. There were ppl that could not pass Nathama story fps - these are the same ppl that stand in sweeping fire in hammer station - this is not an ability issue, this is a player issue. They know they can hit a kolto and ignore what is going on. You are only affecting your top players with this. Feedback (Combat) Sent: What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you? When I started I was asked 'how do you play' and my response was 'i run up and hit things really fast' - I was told to pick sent, but its hard to be good and easy to be bad and you will always be sad - they were not wrong and 10 years later she is still my main. People call sent/mara's glass cannons, but we are not, we are glass pistols - and, i am also ok with that, because we are fast and skillful. Sent/Maras do not stand still, always running, jumping, and moving to the next target. Even when we fight we jump and for no reason. Speed and agility and skill. We are flashpoint tanks and support in raids. We bring to the table what other classes cant. We zoom in open world and are trickster players. In lue of dcds, we have skill. We are clearly not Guardians - who hit like trucks and take a beating; Sents have to be smart to live and kill. Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies? I went to onderaan, and tho my companion was on heals (normally on dps) I was fine. but I only pulled one mob at a time and if I was in live I would pull two or three or more. Being that I had basically every attack ability, my only concern was speed and survivability and my tricks to save me. HOWEVER - you took only one fighting ability from combat sent (more below) - clearly i could still kill. If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it. I disliked loadout a and b - i prefer the forum post of what choices I would get. Most of my feedback is based on that. (I personally would sacrifice dps and defense for my abilities back. Per fight I would rethink what I bring and would have to change it up...but my day to day play would be abilities. And, im not willing to change my setup fight to fight. I would rather do literally anything else with my time.) I don't know if your intention was to hit the Guardian harder or feedback was taken into account, but Combat Sentinel clearly didn't get the same hit (sounds like the other sents did), but its not all roses. The choice for sent seem to be 'an ability or a passive' in most cases. I lose dps or defensive for the sake of an ability. Again, I say, as per guardian feedback, this is only nice for people who do nothing but parse. All of the attack abilities are there (save leg slash, but even in pvp I barely cared and now can be added as a passive). Its the DCDs or its like that are gone. The class is still here, yes, but everything that pushes a toon to be able to clutch a fight is gone. And I find that the most fun. The PTS nor the Forums were too helpful to be honest. I cant get the feel of what options I would have chosen on PTS. I ended up with a mix of passive and abilities. When I got to onderaan i lost an ability but I did not check my passives. The forum states there are two 'new abilities added-' but no ability name. I am guessing that is still in discussion, and I would think its one of the existing and just decisions have not be made yet? Which may leave the rest of my feedback off. Ability changes that stood out Transcendence vs passive choice: now I need to have the clarity? Transcendence relying on clarity makes transcendence terrible. Its really on borderline deal breaker - since I will have valorous call, I guess I can use that, and lose my buildup of centering - but I would rather lose valorous call (considering the other changes) and have transcendence not use centering. Force Camo vs Passives: losing threat drops seem to be a theme. Threat drops are real in swtor today, and while that may be something that is changing the future the stealth and the dcd with it does come in handy. This is actually an ability done right to me. It is one ability with multiple uses, but not too many. There are three clear actions this one ability does. (not to mention, going into a force camo would lose some agro and would 'protect' you. This was just a cleaver ability to me always.) Then I could also have a passive to add a cleanse (example of the exception to my normal run that i would change for a small handful of flights.) Guarded by the Force/Inspiration/Force Clarity: Force Clarity: (among other that expac) is an example of 'we don't need new abilities each expac'. While for sent its at least not useless, this was about the closest ability to bloat you could get. While I liked the control to add more dps in my burst window, it was just 'one more click' in my burst window. Buffing other abilities would have been better than an extra ability that buffs abilities. Inspiration: I saw someone mention just getting rid of raid buffs all together, and, well I cant say I disagree. And i am going to pretend I understand whatever you are trying to accomplish - If this is more raid specific, then make a pvp kind and an open world kind and then we choose between three of the same type. Guarded by the force: Of course the best dcd is a choice. Not Deal Breakers, but not happy (maybe the 'missing' abilities?): Removed Force Status?: loss of second stun/interrupt. This is just fun. Every force user should be able to 'force choke' - sorry not sorry. Removed Pacify?: loss of (kind of) dcd. underused, useless in raid bosses. great in pvp, open world, and solo play Removed Awe?: loss of third stun/interrupt. underused, about useless in raids. great in pvp, open world, and solo play - this has saved me in open world more than any other ability. Overall changes looks like our options are broken into three groups: more dps, more dcd, or more ability. Its seems to be getting clearer that there are changes for pvp - at least that is what it looks like to me. My Complaint remains the same: I am having to choose abilities. This is not a class rework. This is not an ability bloat rework. This is not a play your way. This is not even a nerf. This is not even less confusing. Its just different for the sake of being different. Choose between abilities, or abilities vs passives: Please explain what is trying to be accomplished by this? Is it to have multiple loadouts? per fight? I, and most, do not like changing specs per fight. I, and I think a lot, make multiple toons to just NOT respec (funny enough, because respecing is a pain - the thing we thought loadouts would fix). Passive choices are one thing, which is a general layout and for a small handful of fights a new set is used. This looks to be a loadout per boss per story vs hm vs nim vs trash vs pvp vs open world? How many loadouts does one need? Am I expected to ask the raid lead 'are you expecting a raid buff or transcendence? because now I have to know before we start' Do I ask the other sent 'do you want the guarded by the force and I will bring the raid buff?' - this is the deal breaker for me. I just want to jump into a raid and go - and, idk, just have everything I need. What is the gain? Please, what are we gaining in this change? This is 'passives mixed with abilities that give you less options'. Even ppl who pretend like this is not terrible can not say what is being gained. And not that I think we should gain something each expac, i dont. But all this time is put into something and nothing is gained, and everything is loss. This is just loss. Honestly, these changes mostly slow the game. Picking up multiple mobs is more deadly. Lack of DCD and CC is a concern that maybe my comp needs to go back to heals instead of dps or I have to stop and heal more often. And I'm not convinced I would not have to change builds per fights per raid lead's expectations. Its really just becoming more of a pain. The question you have not asked in these feedbacks in ‘how do you play swtor?’ and ‘does this feel like swtor?’. I dont play swtor to be a second job. I dont play swtor for it to be a pain. I play swtor because it gave me something fun to learn and to get better and better at. I can faceroll and do story. I can learn to be better and do harder content. I can play as easy or as hard as I want that day. But i knew one thing - everything was right there for me at all times - nothing to change, no different loadout, its was just there. If I messed up and pulled too many mobs I knew I just had to ‘play smart’ not ‘well, I guess I chose the wrong load out’. Chose passives, not abilities. And, no, this does not feel like swtor: where im a jedi/sith that does not die because I pulled two mobs. jedi/sents didnt leave their guarded by the force at home and brought force clarity instead. If I wanted to play a slow game, GW (loadouts) is free and FFXIV (which gives me all my abilities) is gaining players by the day. I play swtor because its fast, i can play what I want how I want, I can be just as bad or as good as I want that day. And I can change my mind at the drop of a hat and not have to ‘hold on, I have to change everything to do this fight’. Or worse, in a fps with three carries and now I dont have everything I need to carry. Now we just wasted everyone's time. Maybe that is fun for someone, but not to me - and I play swtor first of all for fun. I was going to try the other specs, but, I dont see why. It is the same feedback, but a different spec. Maybe if the classes were being reworked, not the game play, I would have done more. And, just in case you cant see it: You are hitting your skilled players because they are skilled. You are taking away what puts them above the average. This isnt about new players dont understand, they never will if they dont learn. This is not about mechanics being bypassed, though I agree with the statement, removing abilities is not that solution - and your combat sent changes are proof of that. Open World/Solo play is hit the hardest with Combat Mara changes - where this class shines the best if im honest. Its still a Combat Sent, but lost all the clutch, which to me was all the fun.

This statement alone means you didnt even read all my posts, you picked and displayed what you wanted to fit your narrative. Good job.

Us, who actually use the abilities we say we use: "Please dont do this. We beg of you. This is a bad idea!" Them: "You dont even use those abilities! Like, who even uses saber throw? yall need to calm down a bit!" Projection is real.

I'm not grabbing a pitch fork and torches, and if ppl think my posts are pitch forks and torches im wonder what discourse they have interacted with prior to this... But, no, I dont need a deep dive when not only I see the foundation of what is happening. If you think this is because the interrupt is missing, or what abilities in the end I wont have/have to chose from, I really dont even know why im responding. Even those who disagree state that this is 'getting rid of abilities'. You can even take away the PTS and see that the forum arguments have move into 'I want all of my abilities, please dont dumb down the game' vs 'There are too many abilities, its ok to get rid of some'. And then attacks on those posts. Feedback starts at PTS launch. They asked 'is it fun to play, why or why not' - but then didnt give us some info...thats on them. I still get to answer and discuss how its not fun to play and why. With or without my pitch fork and devil horns. The only deep dive that I could be missing is 'lol, but at end game you have them all' - Then April Fools on me in July and I would instead question why they thought this was a good presentation of that.

love your analogy. And your whole post.

There are too many of you to reply to all, but: If you dont want the abilities, you dont need to play with them. This change is telling the rest of us who use them, we cant have them (at the same time.) The box that I spoke of, though I thought is obvious, is the fact that will have to choose from a handful of abilities that I once just had. The fun of versatile is removed...because I dont have all of my abilities...im left in a box. I dont disagree that some abilities could have a rework, I never said otherwise. Ive lost abilities in the past, it happens. (droid cc) example: I cant say chilling scream is something, even in pvp, I felt really helped me - maybe a handful of times. But just because I dont use it often may not be something someone else uses better than I. (And to the dude about Challenging call, I guess you dont pvp? Not calling you out, just saying.) Which is kind of exactly my point. Just because you do not use the ability does not make it bloat or useless. Lets take Challenging Call since it specifically was mentioned - its not pvp only: PVP: should always be up, 30% less damage to attacks not on you. PVE: good tank, ideal situation - dont need it, youre right. And what if its a new tank, you dont want to cut them some slack? Be a bro and help them out? PVE: not a good tank - well, if your good, you better start using it or youre the tank now PVE: not ideal situation - tank dies, you tank boss until tank rez, then drop threat so tank reestablishes tanking. Also useful if tank does not die, but needs to do anything else - stealth rez, control of another boss, adds, dc, bio, etc. Also useful as TDPS. Starfighter: completely useless, just like all the others. We should just get rid of them all then. EDIT: Forgot the DR, my bad. And, sorry, I feel like those niche situations is the game. Yes, I think most of the community plays rotations, the same ten abilities over and over and over. That is not the whole community. The ppl who are concerned are those that use the niche play. I believe I was even clear that I dont think this is a game killer, most will stay (at least I was on some post), but the people that like the versatility, and the complexity are the ones that are upset. And, AGAIN, that is the point. (And they are the ones that cannot be accommodated by the choosing of abilities vs those that dont want them can just not use them.) The PTS and its state is a shock, I get that. And they did it on a Friday with no one to answer any questions and three days to stew. I also get that. And further research will show what is on the PTS is limited, even for the changes. I really hate even talking about 'you get blade blitz or endure or saber reflect' as example because I also expect those may change. But the foundation of the choosing/pruning of abilities is not - at this time. And, dont say its ok to give feedback, but..., for when you dont like the feedback you complain. (This is directed to the community, not swtor devs - honestly, Ive rolled with every change for many years, this is the first I dont like it from the start. Swtor devs have tweaked everything that didnt work well out the gate into something playable or removed. I have stood with the swtor devs on every change - maybe not agreed or liked it, but believed they would make it better and in most cases they do. They have a hard job, I get that - I also work in software - but, this was not something I cannot not speak up on. This is hard to come back from.) And yes, some ppl do complain even if you change a shade of blue, but sorry, this is not that - these are not some randoms screaming "GAME ENGINE!". Really read the posts and see what is being said in most cases. There is almost no balance on 'this is a good idea'. Some of these ppl (self proclaimed) never post - like me. I never come to forums, but felt so strongly about this change I felt I had to do something. Being mad is their emotion, but that does not make them wrong - they are right about the change - It is a bad idea. If you want to call all of that emotional, I dont care. But I have laid out real game scenarios, and I can lay out more but I should not need to - I have proven my point on a single random ability that was mentioned, not chosen by me. Its clear the type of player that is ok with these changes and the type of player who is not.

That is what ppl are doing, and while i agree some are angrier than others, and, well, where im from we call that passion. They care that much to be that upset - it counts for something to me. (and I have done a lot of reading forums the last couple of days, and I could have missed it, but I didnt think I saw anything out of line. Just ppl very upset about something they care very deeply for.) While I agree the owner (bioware) of the story (swtor) is always to tell their story, and should not be swayed by the mob....The game may not exist without bioware, but the game also does not exist without its players. putting as much time ( 10 years!) and energy into learning these classes, customizing toons, choosing story options, its kinda hard to not feel some ownership. They are gutting the effectiveness of my Jedi to be Jedi - I care about her, deeply. She was all powerful, fun, and versatile. And they want to limit her, put her in a box. I really dont see how Im NOT supposed to take that personal. Yes, a knee jerk reaction, a rage quit, and one ive thought long and hard on. This isnt a class I play got nerfed, let me find the next meta. People left other games, that they loved, for this reason. And its happening to them again. I have tried other games that limit my abilities, make me choose - and I dont play them because of that. If i wanted to play a game with limited abilities, I would play that game, but I dont, I play swtor for its range, and now its being designed like the games I/we didnt like. Why would I stay playing swtor if I didnt play other games for the same reason? This isnt something they did that I dont like and I cant ignore or opt out of. (Ppl get their favorite class nerfed, all the time. They are sad, but they get over it. Most changes are in some way superficial, and even if someone didnt like it, they could still play their class and have fun. Or they move to a new class until their class comes back around to be good.) This is the foundation to the game, the class. And its being gutted. All of them. The game will no longer be fun to play - so why play? Again, this has happened to other games, and clearly people left. I dont know if swtor will survive this, i think it will, but other games that did this took a hit and are considered 'not the game it used to be'. I mean, wow classic exists for a reason, right? To such a reason blizzard is running it. Swtor is destroying its legacy in their (and my) eyes. I dont know, IS there a manager I can speak to?

Have you ever thought of just not adding/using those abilities you dont want to your bar? I'm not getting to choose, you can choose now. In the future Im getting told pick one of three. You may want one. I want all three. Why make me play like you because you cant play like me? -from: a casual for many many years, that over time grew to appreciate the game more. There were abilities I never used until I started exploring more of the game, but I never was arrogant enough to think, casual I, could tell someone who knew better what to do. Again, why make me play like you because you cant play like me? I'm not even asking you to play like me, but now im being forced to play like you.

Swtor means more to you than you mean to bioware. Playing nearly 10 years of swtor, and working 14 years in software development - let me tell you what I know (and I wish I was wrong): These changes are happening They are not asking you if you want these changes, they are asking you to tweak them. These changes have been in the works for six months or more. Probably a year. These changes are happening. They may change which abilities, they may change what level, but this foundation is coming in 7.0. Your classes will be dumbed down. And, for those of us canceling our subs due to this change (yes, I am as well, the day before 7.0 - and I had thought I would play until they turned the servers off), Bioware does not care that you are going to cancel your sub due to these changes. They really don't. Too many will stay to try and make it work. You are now just another ex-swtor player. Swtor means more to you than you mean to bioware. Swtor means so incredibly much more to me than I mean to bioware. I want to be wrong. I really, really really do, but only bioware can prove that. And I'm not holding my breath.

I never post, but I feel I have to ensure that one more voice is heard - and I have a lot to say. From everything I have read, this is just a small part of 'the new norm' so, im going to write this as if this is the new norm. (As is it is not that i am not missing abilities, I have to chose between them - at most i am missing abilities i can chose from - in the end, I will not get them all back.) Background: all classes, around half the specs///all pve play (story to master/nim), pvp (unranked mostly and love open world) 1. Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? At level 75? No. Maybe at 30? Its a shell of an End Game open word, multi-playstyle class. 2. Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation? Is something missing, yes, almost half of the abilities. First, I hate the word rotation. Rotations are for the unimaginative and parse bros. I am missing abilities that I use for any content. 3. What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies? I guess if it were a dummy, it would do fine. Being that the game is not hitting dummies, but rather open world, operations with mobs/adds, pve, and pvp - not a lot. I dont know when I need what I need until I need it. Imagine being in open world and some merc shows up and I know I can outrun them, but I dont have blade blitz cuase I chose saber reflect. Now, image being in open world and I get attacked by a Jugg, but I have blade blitz when I could really use saber reflect. Too bad I didnt know ahead of time! Now imaging having to change specs even more than you do now? All for one ability. I cant wait to try limited abilities in ops..."sorry, I forgot I had saber reflect instead of blade blitz, that why I died to lightning field". (I really thought these changes were going to limit the need of alts, instead I feel like I would make even more now....) 4. How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class? I am not enjoying playing the class as it is on the PTS. Half of my abilities are missing. I do not play rotation only- for I do not stand on my ship and hit a dummy target all day. 5. Personal feedback This is left me disappointed and empty. Tried different specs and different loadouts. I was expecting to get more play freedom and at this moment I feel I will be getting less. This is not discounting that this is a round 1 on the PTS, even the abilities have the lower level names, but at this moment I see this as a way things are going. The difference between build a and b on vigilance was I either got blade blitz or saber reflect. I should not have to choose between those as a vigilance. Yet I was left with a guard.... I am not a Guardian/Jugg main, I mostly use it for pvp, but I can just imagine what will happen to my sent/mara (my main). I am already upset about my sent/mara and I dont even know what she will be left with. I can understand an ability here and there for whatever reason (droid cc anyone?), but to upheave a whole class like this? And the cherry is that this is also going to happen to ALL the classes? I win fights because I know ALL of my abilities. This really just strips the fun and uniqueness of play style from it. A class is not defined by its rotation. A rotation may make a good player, but knowing all the abilities makes a GREAT player. They are not extra. They are not bloat. They are useful in multiple situations. Some maybe more for pvp than pve, but I use ALL of my abilities, in just about every play style. Especially in open world. (Force Status and Awe are not the same, they are different. One is not extra to the other.) And, no, I do not feel like I should have to change load outs going from pvp to pve... especially being an open world pvper. (not saying this is not an ability or two that could maybe go or use rework, but to gut a third? of them....make me chose between two that I used to have?) Im tying to not be negative, or have this be a gut reaction, but this does not feel right. The removal of these abilities may not mean anything to the ppl who dont care, but they mean everything to the ppl who do (and use them).

I know they are looking for Ops and PvP, i read their post unlike you reading mine of 'there are ops and pvp guilds on the server'. There are ops and PvP on Pot5, maybe just not your YOUR liking, but I am not here for the likes of you. I was doing the nice thing and attempting to help someone and answering their question. For anyone who wants to know: Ops nights for guilds differ per guild. One guild runs them every day. PvP Nights: Reg are Tuesdays and Thursday, Ranked is Friday. Our 'dead server' is not for everyone, you have just proved that - its not for you, but you can spend your time being negative trolling on a server you may not even be on - I'm not going to judge. I'm trying to help someone find people on Pot5 if that is their desire. You seem like the kind of troll that has to have the last word - I will not be responding back to you.

Some of us were unhappy on high pop servers, and came to Pot5 to get away from [insert reason here]. Example: Try judging less. That is one reason why I left Harbinger

hello, I dont want to speak for a guild, but there are OPs and PvP guild on Pot5. Please join our Pot5 Discord and someone will find you, Imp and Pub! https://discord.gg/VaS6wqQ