VicSkimmr Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The amount of mis-information in this thread is mind numbing. Let's create a problem that doesn't exist and then spend hours and hours complaining about it. Has anyone read this?http://www.swtor.com/blog/some-clarifications-item-modifications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairec Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) So, how can you balance Customization AND Recognition in the same package? That is the 64k $ question. Gee, I don't know... maybe restrict customization by armor type, exactly like WoW and Rift do? Where does this fallacy that aesthetic gear customization is some wild free for all with no rules come from? The mod system doesn't even work that way, now. You still need to have the gear, you still need to be able to wear the armor, you still need to be able to use the weapon. Recognition isn't a factor, it's already been covered. Similarly, I'm pretty sure that I can recognize the dude leaping about with a lightsaber is a warrior/knight, the dude shooting lightning is an inquisitor, the guy throwing rocks is a consular, and the chucks firing rockets and taking cover are hunter/trooper/agent/smuggler, respectively. Do you honestly believe people are so woefully feebleminded that they can't grasp that? Gear is not necessary for recognition, that's why every other MMORPG has an appearance tab or equivalent. The key point here is that, as is, TOR is woefully uncompetitive in the customization arena. I am not going to keep paying for the WoW of four years ago with a Star Wars skin. Devs digging in their heels on trying to force us to wear endgame armor is ridiculous and only going to coat them players. One size does not fit all. They need to get with the times. Edited January 5, 2012 by Jairec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyjc Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Because there are two competing values in this equation. One is the desire for total customization, and the other is the desire for recognition. MMOs have traditionally used set pieces to allow for easy, immediate visual identification of a character's Class, and achievement level. The former is important for PVP and fulfills the same function as heraldry in ye olden days, and the latter is more of the PVE "look what I did" factor. I assume the same recognition factor is one of the reasons why Lightsaber vs Dual Saber vs Double Saber is restricted by AC. You see the saber, you know what is coming at you. While two ACs use standard Lightsabers, they also have different armor and if all else fails, the one running at you is a Knight :-p So, how can you balance Customization AND Recognition in the same package? That is the 64k $ question. The weapons and stance of the character are dead giveaways. It's not the reason, any pvp'er worth his salt, can tell just from the characters weapon and stance what they are. The reason they usually dont allow appearance tab is it makes their Designers butthurt, as blizzard basically said in their original post on the subject. I'm sure biowares the same, their devs put alot of work into the hideous looking first sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) There is only one problem here, OP. That is the fact that you raced to 50 ahead of the game. This is an MMO. No MMO ships complete. They ship with a shell and develop over time. There is a timeline for development and right now its in the level 20 range. You are currently in the minute minority of players. They will not forgo their design just because you ignored all the information put out, skipped all the viable content to race to no-man's land. They will tweek and adjust content as it affects lower content, but don't expect singular level 50 issues to be addressed any time soon. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" Edited January 5, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workerdrone Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Devs digging in their heels on trying to force us to wear endgame armor is ridiculous and only going to coat them players. One size does not fit all. Get with the times. From the article linked in the post above yours..... So, instead of letting that happen, we prevented the Armoring, Hilt and Barrel from being extracted, but we also made sure of dropping purple Armoring mods of equivalent power as Operation loot. This means that players going the mod route can still take their favorite orange armor and make it as good as a operation purple armor (with some temporary caveats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-hori- Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 that's not a solution because for example if there are 5 named mobs in zone you only have to farm the first mob to get mods to put in every slot and fill up your complete set without having to progress .. the way they did it is if you want a complete set you have to successfully clear the entire zone as far as crafted mods .. just like the gear are probably made to bind on pickup rather than equip, but until someone actually gets in there and starts clearing raid zones .. it's all pretty much here say, as even items and encounters tested in beta are not permanent and can change at any time. People don't realize how difficult these games are to create and try to balance .. sure you can make a lot of points about balancing, but that is only from one perspective (yours) when there are dozens maybe hundreds of perspectives to take into consideration. I don't really have a problem with this, let people get loot. The ones clearing the first boss only, will spend x times (x=# of bosses) the time, compared to a group that does a full clear. Games should be about fun and socializing, not lootwhine and envy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) The amount of mis-information in this thread is mind numbing. Let's create a problem that doesn't exist and then spend hours and hours complaining about it. Has anyone read this? http://www.swtor.com/blog/some-clarifications-item-modifications Mmmm yes, BW created... sorry... "designed" a problem that could of been avoided long time ago, but nooo, we do this at launch if we can spare the time from the bugs and future expansions. Edited January 5, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiyana Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The amount of mis-information in this thread is mind numbing. Let's create a problem that doesn't exist and then spend hours and hours complaining about it. Has anyone read this? http://www.swtor.com/blog/some-clarifications-item-modifications Because folks would rather complain than read, I'll give the TLDR version of the blog post: End game artifact quality (purple) gear is now partially moddable. Why moddable? Because that allows the players to customize stats such as critical, etc. to their exact desire. Why only partially? Because mods are now extractable... Think of it this way: it is easier to defeat the first boss from an Operation than the last boss. So we want to reward the players with the best possible loot for defeating the last boss and that loot is typically the Chest piece of a set. The first boss drops less interesting stuff, say boots. This may sound old school, and it is. But by doing so, we ensure that both players that get rewarded by looks and those rewarded by stats are properly rewarded for taking on the most difficult challenges. Now, if purple gear was fully moddable, players would simply farm the first boss, acquire 5 pair of boots, extract the armoring, mod and enhancements from the boots and slots them in their favorite Custom items. That actually sounds cool, but it really isn’t. Letting players extract the armoring mod from the purple items would trivialize end game gear progression and stop rewarding successful and dedicated players for their efforts. So, instead of letting that happen, we prevented the Armoring, Hilt and Barrel from being extracted, but we also made sure of dropping purple Armoring mods of equivalent power as Operation loot. This means that players going the mod route can still take their favorite orange armor and make it as good as a operation purple armor (with some temporary caveats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I agree with your sig. Stangely enough, I don't. They are another poster's words who I feel lost perspective on the A-tab issue. Edited January 5, 2012 by Matte_Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This was pointed out late in Beta too. But the Operations will/shoukld be dropping top level armouring, mods, barrels and enhancements for orange gear. And i assume the schematics will drop too. The bigger problem imo is that orange gear wont have set bonuses on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairec Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Since the blog on modding still dodges he issue of set bonuses, it seems a player who wishes to customize will still be statistically penalized for doing so. A two year old could point this out and it isn't remotely acceptable for 2012. Stop trying to force players to wear your ugly gear. We have minds of our own, deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Since the blog on modding still dodges he issue of set bonuses, it seems a player who wishes to customize will still be statistically penalized for doing so. A two year old could point this out and it isn't remotely acceptable for 2012. Stop trying to force players to wear your ugly gear. We have minds of our own, deal with it. Yeah, I'm not too happy with the "you will wear your clown outfit, and like it!" mentality either. ...Oh well, let's see the subscribtions after two months. Could be a rude awakening for BW/EA with this system. Edited January 5, 2012 by Beansoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Orange gear needs to be upgradable to the same levels as PvP and raid gear. Developers need to fix this asap, especially with as ugly as some of their end game sets are. We also need more variation on orange sets. Edited January 5, 2012 by Ashanor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Since the blog on modding still dodges he issue of set bonuses, it seems a player who wishes to customize will still be statistically penalized for doing so. A two year old could point this out and it isn't remotely acceptable for 2012. Stop trying to force players to wear your ugly gear. We have minds of our own, deal with it. The set bonuses I have been seeing are limited to boots, gloves, pants/dress, headgear and chest. The bonuses are for 2 or 4 items of the 5 being worn and some of the 4 pieces bonuses were a little underwhelming to me. If we consider that the orange gear can be specifically statted as opposed to the stock stats on the set gear beyond the actual set bonuses, there may be cases where the orange items could be preferrable if the set bonuses can be had in other item slots. It also means that you can derive your two piece set bonus from as little as boots or gloves and a hidden piece of headware. If you can collect a full set, you could opt use an optimally purple-modded orange chest/robe or dress/pants and still get the maximum available set bonus. Swapping in such a visually dominant piece could go a long way toward breaking up any clone effect. I am sure some will still find this hindering to their preffered level of expression and optimization but, I don't think the result will be nearly as bad as it is being made out to be. If you put in the effort collecting the gear and mods, you could have the exact set of optimal gearing and look dramatically different. Personally, I would have put the set bonuses on belts instead of the chests so players pants and tops could remain totally the territory of orange gear but, you can avoid the objectional shoulderpads, potentially recolor the whole set to a chest color of your choosing (in the future?) and hide a garrish helmet while still getting full 4 piece set bonuses. Edited January 5, 2012 by Matte_Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razyr Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's terrible that mmo developers never expand on the loot systems established at launch. For example, I've been so happy over the years that World of Warcraft never made epics, extremely rare at launch, commonplace and easy to acquire. Even further, I'm glad they didn't expand on how that loot could be modified. Because if ANY mmo developer did that it would ruin the game... OH WAIT, ALL MMO'S EXPAND THE LOOT SYSTEM AFTER LAUNCH. *** IS EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT, IT'S A BRAND NEW GAME. I'm done, continue on with the ranting. I'll stop pointing out the obvious now, please whine more and threaten to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enako Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 i also second this. i dont want everyone running around with similar variations of the same gear. i also want to look as i want to look. characters in this game feels more 'real' than anything wow has ever been. therefore i want to give them the look i want to give them. not some forced selection dropping out of the butt end of a giant centipede because 'raiders' want everything in the game to be secondary to their progress fixation. my gameplay is not inferior to anyone's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylanaris Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Agree, "locking mods" it's not a solution. Giving classes some sort of "uniforms" it's pretty sad, even for troopers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enako Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 i dont give a flying fyscke about 'sets' either. they were something diablo invented. im not here to play diablo. i dont see anything 'set' on han solo's arse, shoulders either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 This seems to be overblown. If only one mod is locked, and they say they will add equivalent mods, it is a non-issue. Set Bonuses exist, but so what? In other games people have eschewed Set Bonuses before and they don't break the game. Orange Gear is great. No, it is not an appearance tab, but frankly that is an aesthetic issue of personal preference and does not effect game quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackweb Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I wanna keep my usual brownish traditional jedi robe, I hate those "superman" like robes that starts popping around at lvl 25ish. Aw man now I have to wear the high end raid gear crap, please make high lvl stuff moddable aswell so I can get those epic mods into the robes I like wearing. +1 vote from me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razyr Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's terrible that mmo developers never expand on the loot systems established at launch. For example, I've been so happy over the years that World of Warcraft never made epics, extremely rare at launch, commonplace and easy to acquire. Even further, I'm glad they didn't expand on how that loot could be modified. Because if ANY mmo developer did that it would ruin the game... OH WAIT, ALL MMO'S EXPAND THE LOOT SYSTEM AFTER LAUNCH. *** IS EVERYONE CRYING ABOUT, IT'S A BRAND NEW GAME. I'm done, continue on with the ranting. I'll stop pointing out the obvious now, please whine more and threaten to quit. This post was brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 From the article linked in the post above yours..... So, instead of letting that happen, we prevented the Armoring, Hilt and Barrel from being extracted, but we also made sure of dropping purple Armoring mods of equivalent power as Operation loot. This means that players going the mod route can still take their favorite orange armor and make it as good as a operation purple armor (with some temporary caveats). Where in that article does it say PvP Bonuses, Set Bonuses, and Augment Slots are available? If you don't think PvP Bonuses and Set bonuses are important, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Where in that article does it say PvP Bonuses, Set Bonuses, and Augment Slots are available? If you don't think PvP Bonuses and Set bonuses are important, wow. You aren't wearing the set, so no set bonuses. How is this hard to comprehend? They never promised Orange Gear would be 100% identical to Operation Gear or else they would have made the appearance tab. There are other games with appearance tabs, vote with your wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enako Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 They never promised Orange Gear would be 100% identical to Operation Gear or else they would have made the appearance tab. There are other games with appearance tabs, vote with your wallet. im voting with my wallet. i am expecting them to make my orange gear usable at level 50. i dont have to be underdog to any other person's playstyle. neither they are to mine. there is no rule that says "raid armor should be the best and raiders should get it". thats something raider crowd have self-perpetuated in conjunction with wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross_deutsch Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 F*** you elitewannabes Gear is for everyone and all gear should be available to everyone. I pay to play everything should be available to casuals like me to the hardcore losers who think they are PRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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