Toxicity in group content

[Raansu]

Yes... my 11-15 alts.. sure.

 

It would take you all of 5 minutes....if that. Then again who cares. I do vet FP's daily and I almsot never run into the same people. Course I'm not really bothered by chat either so I rarely ignore people so whatever I guess.

[Lunaha]

There are more but I think that just comes with more people in general, not just from Steam. Seems many mmos have this now.

[eabevella]

The few times I ran into "toxic" players, they were high level veterans who thought they were gods but apparently can't/don't care to carry like a god. New players can be clueless and frustrating, but they didn't contribute to my most painful group experience.

[JennyFlynn]

As someone who has been "called out" for being toxic, I can explain the issue right now. There are a LOT of people who are recently coming back to the game, or new players. These players then join content that is designed for players who know how to play. So I have been finding myself needing to explain certain mechanics of such content. This point is understandable and I am fine explaining stuff. The issue is that a section of these players don't listen to this and continue to "play their way" even when it works against the rest of the group.

 

So a few pointers I have given and been told I was being mean:

1. Don't use a push back ability when we want to keep the enemies grouped up

2. After this master mode, you might want to go and play more veterans to get a better grasp at the game

3. Cleanse the debuff the first boss of hammer station gives...

4. Read your spec's tree to better understand your class.

5. Use defensive cooldowns

6. Don't hit the stunned enemy

 

Now... maybe I am just being a jerk, but I think all these things are useful tips to newer players.

None of that is toxic, and I've been giving out the same advice in a polite, calm manner. Now, if the advice came as "Hey you damn noob stop attacking the CC'd mob *** L2P or ****" then, yeah, toxic, but if it's just regular advice given there's nothing wrong with it. But we also live in a world where everyone is constantly playing the "offense taken" game so even advice offered in a polite fashion is rude and unsolicited and how dare you say anything rather than just letting the player do as they please.

 

My own experiences have been good thus far with new players asking for- and/or accepting advice from more experienced players easily. Stuff like "I'm new to this game/FP" is met with helpful advice and game-play tips with a "oh thank you I didn't know".

[TrixxieTriss]

You also have to love the toxicity that comes back from some people when you are trying to help them.

I’ll use pvp as an example. You see someone missing a Crystal in their weapons, so you point out they are missing a Crystal or you see a dps class like a Sorc with defence and shield equiped and get told to **** off.

 

It goes both ways. Some people are toxic against players trying to help and others against people for being bad. You honestly can’t do anything about it in pvp because the ignore feature doesn’t work in pvp, so you are bound to grouped again with the same toxic people.

At least in other types of group content you can use ignore and not have to worry about being grouped with toxic people you’ve been with before,

[Ardrossan]

There certainly is toxicity but a problem is that it's poorly defined.

 

 

So a few pointers I have given and been told I was being mean:

1. Don't use a push back ability when we want to keep the enemies grouped up

2. After this master mode, you might want to go and play more veterans to get a better grasp at the game

3. Cleanse the debuff the first boss of hammer station gives...

4. Read your spec's tree to better understand your class.

5. Use defensive cooldowns

6. Don't hit the stunned enemy

 

None of this is toxic. ofc, we're getting the sanitized forum version of this from the person who got called toxic. Like not to be suspicious but over in pvp there's a thread giving tips on being prepared for ranked, and it all sounds very reasonable...on the forum. In-game the player is apparently infamous for being toxic, but he cleans up well.

 

One big problem is tone doesn't come across well by text and so you'll get people who are certain that they're being cruelly insulted even though that isn't the intent. And other times it is. There's a tendency to make assumptions about people online, how they're thinking, investing them with emotions based on little evidence.

 

I can easily see how all of supercomet's points could be read as an attack if they were written a little more directly. Not saying that's the case, or that would be their fault if it was - in pugs I'll write FOCUS ADDS!! USE TAUNT!! or other basic commands because it's urgent and I don't have time to write a paragraph. And most importantly because they aren't doing the obvious already. My guild -and most guilds -uses discord for raids because it's so much easier to communicate clearly through voice than typing.

 

Or if you told someone all that in ONE pug, lol. No matter how nice you're being, people may still get offended if they think you're acting like you're better than them [even if you are]. Pretty much a guarantee that the worst players who que ranked regularly are much better than I am, but I still don't like to be patronized, especially if it's in chat where everyone can see, not whispers.

 

The commonality for 'toxicity' that I can see is: x player is either telling y player to do or not do z action, or doing z action directly [like griefing, vote kicking, etc], and y player is offended by z action. That equation applies to supercomet's FP list, it applies to Prum's ranked pvp prerequisites, it fits a lot of situations.

 

I got called toxic because I told players to unsub because they were upset about a new feature. Presumably, they read emotions into the argument, or they felt threatened by the idea of unsubbing . That's an assumption, they didn't actually TELL ME because they thought I could read their minds, perhaps, and were too busy feeling sorry for themselves. That's another aspect of toxicity: people assume that the "toxic" have way more information than they could credibly have. Second, once you become convinced that you're a victim, it's very easy to sink deeper into a victim mentality such as

 

The worst part of this, is what you just said " if you get offended by it the problem lies with you", that has being used by hate groups, etc for so long.

 

There's a difference between victim-blaming or gaslighting people and pointing out that people have options, they are NOT passive victims in need of mods to swoop in and protect them. Personally, I find the comparison with trolls on a videogame forum to hate groups very distasteful. It's like making a godwin, the person who does so clearly has no irl experience with bigotry. Again, an assumption, and reading into text with emotions. We all do it to some extent especially around hot-button or triggering topics, which may not be obvious to other people.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ardrossan

[Neo_Psy]

Tera must be truly unimaginably bad then, I'm glad I don't play anymore. I used to, it wasn't so bad then, wonder what changed?

 

I think it's because the combat is so fast paced and there is a steep learning curve to getting good, anyone can spam the space bar with chained skills but to play properly in tera you need to take time to learn. And the bosses have annoying one shot mechanics which you have to dodge or you just die. New players can have a hard time and it seems a lot of the community don't have time for them. Don't get me wrong though, I encountered some nice people, but in general the tera community was pretty toxic and weird, weird in the sense of the stuff they talk about over the "global" chat.

 

That's not to say I haven't seen some strange conversations going on in SWTOR. DK general has some interesting topics pop up from time to time I've noticed.

[MingusPho]

A lot of good points have been made but one of the things that really gets me is when things don't go how someone imagined it would and they immediately resort to insults and profanity. Or they immediately vote to kick and start gaslighting to back up their vote to kick. The term sh****r gets thrown out a lot by people that have trouble voicing their grievances or their intended strategy for that matter. It's almost like why even pug if you expect people to play precisely according to your style? That's what friends, progression groups, and guilds are for. I've long resigned myself to asking if people need pointers (should I see a problem) but otherwise staying quiet. It's too out of hand for me to do anything besides dps in most cases. I applaud healers and tanks for even bothering lol.

[JediQuaker]

Considering the way people toss around terms like "racist", "phobe", etc, these days, I'd be very leery of considering anyone "toxic" just because someone on the forums says they are. 🤔

[ZionHalcyon]

Considering the way people toss around terms like "racist", "phobe", etc, these days, I'd be very leery of considering anyone "toxic" just because someone on the forums says they are. 🤔

 

I am with you..

 

Although having been around since the beginning of the game oh, I can tell you that there were issues with people and that just comes with a spike in population. Fernan PVP though, ignores the way to go and really to solve all the problems, join a good guild.

 

If you join an active guild with enough members, they tend to have stricter rules for themselves, and people will have a better time, which is better than them being a Nancy for gen chat and trying to police everyone else's behavior.

 

Honestly, with the mechanics of things the way they are now, even solo players can join a guild and still enjoy their solo lifestyle because it contributes to conquest. And then if they absolutely must do group content, at least they can do it with a group that will be better mannered than rolling the dice pugging.

[Qouivandes]

I have a toon that i started leveling a few weeks ago that i dusted off and decided to run a few FPs while i was at the casino. First FP was, you guessed it, hammer station. I am with three folks that obviously have no clue on what to do. I try to help and started explaining LoS...they charge in. They did this a couple of times...each time, though, one of them, in French, would say something about Tanks. Next thing i know i am being kicked from the group...probably the most knowledgeable about the FP, but, OK. I took it as a blessing.

 

the next two FPs went smooth. i will admit, though, i was a little annoyed at this guy kicking me and how ready the other two were to agree, but, like I said, a blessing. First time in a long time i have been kicked from a group for nothing other than being DPS while everyone else was DPS....and i was the highest level toon.

 

regardless, i have had some really bad groups in the past, but most of the time they just leave on their own or folks will initiate the kick. Had this one guy that would constantly pull and type Meow. Ha, now, but at the time was annoying.

[JediQuaker]

Ya know, you don't really "need" to LOS in Hammer Station, and certainly not as often as some people try to. LoS is sometimes quicker and/or better, but there's no need to keep pestering people about it. You might end up being called 'toxic' by those other players - which is why I say that you can' tell the toxic players just from the fact that someone called them toxic.

 

Or, to put it another way, you can complete HS just fine without using LoS, so it might be best to suggest it and then just carry on, if people don't do it.

 

Some of the worst "starts" I've had in HS have been when 1 player runs into the group, 1 player tries to LoS back to the first corner, and 1 player goes back 2 corners, and the 4th runs around confused. 🙂

Usually by the time the 2nd corner guy realizes the mobs aren't coming to him, everyone else is dead. 😏

 

I got kicked from a group for no reason once. But judging from the way it was going, I think the other three were chatting on Discord and kicked me to make room for a buddy. Not cool. 🤔

Edited August 3, 2020 by JediQuaker

[Qouivandes]

I started explaining LOS because they seemed to be having a hard time dealing with mobs spread out; each one attacking in their own little world and dying. I was attempting to help make the second easiest FP go smoother.

 

i also didnt call them toxic...far from it in the grand scheme of things, but this was as good as place as any to tell an interesting tale of a recent experience.

 

in all, like I said, a blessing. My next two FPs went great with a 7 folks that had fun.

[lilathrone]

This is for only FPs:

 

Basically in swtor You have many kinds of players mixed together in group content. As swtor is kind of a hybrid of mmo and story based rpg, there are players like -

-people doing flashpoints for the story while leveling up (before you say it they should do sm, sm flashpoints s**k and they are boring, many people do not play an mmo to do stuff alone)

-power levelers

-end game grinder elitists

-casual players that run them only for fun

 

Now You mix these 4 together, and this is the perfect recipe for toxicity.

 

The solution is either find an active guild and run with them, or LF players in fleet chat and form a group before You queue. Then You can LF with something like

-LFM Taral V story chill run with cutscenes

-LFM Taral V grinding fast runs, lvl75s only!!

etc...

 

That being said, pugging is a deep dive into the unknown in all mmorpgs, or if You know one where in every run everybody is super nice and friendly, please let me know

[Bxvx]

I've actually noticed this not in group content just from the general chats that I see when I zone around. I'm just a super casual player, play my alts can't really decide on a one to call a main. But really just making an extra chat tab to whatever you want minus general chat is the way to go. You shouldn't have to stop playing just cause you ran into some bad apples.

[Omernon]

I play mainly as Rep, but have max level characters on both sides.

 

I'm running daily a lot of FPs with random groups and to be fair maybe 1 in 10 groups I get into are toxic. It might be because Republic always seemed to me to be less cringy with far less trolls, but I also might be just lucky. I don't really know exacly what experience other people have, but for me it might be just that toxic groups are always more memorable and therefore more visible than regular groups - after all they are the ones that ruin our mood.

 

Most of the groups I play with usually just say "Hi" at the start of the FP and "TY, Bye" at the end of it with not much talk in between. Every now and then I also get into very chatty runs with people joking and having fun at every opportunity, but it is as common as the toxic groups (about 1 in 10 runs).

[JediQuaker]

i also didnt call them toxic...far from it in the grand scheme of things, but this was as good as place as any to tell an interesting tale of a recent experience.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were calling anyone toxic. I was simply saying that even someone who's trying to help, can be called toxic by other players. (Been there 😉 )

[Zaldalia]

hate to tell ya game has always been toxic even before steam take any gen chat on DK or fleet also the amount of ******e's i get in Vet FP is crazy

[codydmaan]

Well i do agree. Ik what im doing I keep to myself. However I see alot of people are short fused these days. Perhaps as the world itself gets worse so does peoples attitudes. Mostly its someone makes 1 mistake and the tank bashes them hard for it. Some people just like to instigate trouble. Which i rarely say anything i just report the chat to CS so 🤷 if you see a chat thats harassment just report it cus thats the only thing u can do.

[kirorx]

That's the internet for ya.

 

I wouldnt let it bother you though, just get a decent guild and ignore general chat for the most part.

 

I also stay way from veteran mode flashpoints unless i am leveling, you get a lot "less" negative people in those groups.

Plus you get better rewards 8)

[ElZaguero]

I’ll use pvp as an example. You see someone missing a Crystal in their weapons, so you point out they are missing a Crystal or you see a dps class like a Sorc with defence and shield equiped and get told to **** off.

 

Trixx, I respect you very much, and we usually agree.

 

This is an aside, but there is an entirely valid argument for using Defense mods on a Sorc if you play level-capped PVE content. You wind up with the same Power and HP, but you get an extra 2000-2500 Defense. Yeah, I know you are talking about PVP, but the average player doesn't have two sets of gear; they wear the same for both PVP and PVE.

 

Me, I avoid the issue by avoiding PVP entirely :D

Edited August 14, 2020 by ElZaguero

[Sarova]

Me, I avoid the issue by avoiding PVP entirely :D

Since the crappy unranked PvP changes, avoiding PvP entirely has helped my sanity. I'm also ignoring any content that requires using LFG too and have gone back to doing entirely solo stuff. I'd forgotten the bliss!

Edited August 14, 2020 by Sarova

[Raansu]

Since the crappy unranked PvP changes, avoiding PvP entirely has helped my sanity. I'm also ignoring any content that requires using LFG too and have gone back to doing entirely solo stuff. I'd forgotten the bliss!

 

Sounds boring.

[Darev]

Sounds boring.

 

Completely agree about the not pvp'ing thing you replied to.

Game life is much better w/o it.

 

"Use the orb"

"They're getting all the orbs...go try to stop it"

"you know..the orbs in the middle of the..."

"oh...you just want to fight and not actually WIN...ok"

[Darev]

As far as Toxicity in chat / groups.

Player population has spiked lately because of Steam, and over the last few months because of Covid.

 

It's difficult to say if the percentage of players being toxic has increased at all.

 

Plus...based on this thread...my definition of "TOXIC" is far different than what most people are talking about here.

The forum filters would not let me use any examples even if I wanted to.

 

The thing that annoys me most are the trolls.

They're not there to talk, just to spam chat with stupidity and try to pick fights.

They get ignored.

 

A legacy wide ignore would be wonderful!

From BOTH sides.

some random toon is worthy of getting ignored, that PLAYER and all his/her alts gets ignored.

and I only have to ignore them once...automatically applied to all of MY toons.

 

That's my wish.