Conquest is causing me to level up too fast. Please do something, Bioware

[Ruvalie]

Do not blame that on Conquest.

 

Alongside the changes to Conquest, 6.1.1 *also* activated a period of "double" levelling XP and Renown XP for everything. This was originally intended to run until mid-May, but with the problems they had with the Bounty event that week, they extended "double" XP until 12 June.

Apparently you didn't read my original post, since I mentioned that I'm using the white acute module and not receiving double xp. And even if you just think about it, you should be able to see that completing 5+ conquest objectives per day that I wasn't completing before means that I am gaining more xp than I was previously, without doing anything extra.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ruvalie

[Ruvalie]

I really want to say "Much ado about nothing", but I get it. Here's the irony: In every MMO I play players are complaining about "The Grind". Someone does something to alleviate it, and someone complains about that too... Catch 22, I wouldn't want to be a game developer for anything...

True, but it's not impossible to cater to both. WoW has heirlooms which speed up xp gain for people who want to shorten the grind, and also has an NPC that pauses your xp for people like me who want to lengthen it. No reason SWTOR can't do the same.

[Ruvalie]

Some of the difficulty here may have do with some new players wanting the game to be a challenge. Unfortunately, the 'story' parts of the game haven't been a challenge for a long time. You basically need to wear no armor and not use a companion to get any challenge.

Most of the challenge these days comes from endgame-ish stuff like MM flashpoints and OPS, and World Bosses.

I am not a new player and I know that the leveling content has not been challenging for a long time. But that's no reason to make it even less challenging. Since the conquest revamp increased the base speed of leveling, by causing ordinary activities to complete conquest objectives which grant xp, I think it's a significant enough change to be worth discussing.

[TrixxieTriss]

Thank you for being the one person willing to consider my point of view. That being said, the white acute module is working for me even for conquest xp. I specifically checked it, and the amount of xp listed for conquest objectives changes depending on whether I have the module activated or not. The problem is just that I'm now unavoidably receiving a large chunk of xp daily from conquest which I wasn't receiving before, so I'm leveling significantly faster. I'm not sure whether Bioware considered this before implementing the changes or not. Anyway, providing some way to turn off xp from conquest, turn off xp altogether, or some kind of xp deboost would solve the problem.

 

Yeah, I double checked the WAM today and noticed it’s working for conquest items too (but you need to close the page and open it again to see the reduction).

 

And yes, there are many more things dishing out XP from conquest and even the WAM can’t mitigate that much.

The only work around I can think of is find a high lvl Alt to get some of those daily conquest things done (maybe takes about 10-15mins depending on what you want to eliminate from the list). Then switch to the character you want to lvl.

 

What they could possibly look at doing is make the WAM turn off XP if you apply it twice so you have two debuffs

[robertthebard]

True, but it's not impossible to cater to both. WoW has heirlooms which speed up xp gain for people who want to shorten the grind, and also has an NPC that pauses your xp for people like me who want to lengthen it. No reason SWTOR can't do the same.

 

I'm more interested in the irony of this situation, than an actual solution. For me, it's a non-issue. I played when you had to mix in some planetary stories, or a FP or two to progress, I played when class missions paid 12x xp. Of the 28 or so toons I have on one server, 90ish % of them are at cap already, and the ones that aren't, are not going to miss anything, I've pretty much done it all. So it's not something that I spend any time thinking about, and thus, other than some ironic humor about the premise, all things considered, I had to contribute.

[Sarova]

Ruvalie has a point. I'm a ridiculous altoholic and recently fancied the challenge of levelling a character through the class story with no assistance BUT automatic conquest inclusion ensures you get masses of xp without trying so everything is super easy, even without a companion out. Getting the item that turns off double xp is one thing however, as a solo player, I'd like the option to turn off conquest objectives/conquest participation, especially as a solo player.

[xordevoreaux]

Ruvalie has a point. I'm a ridiculous altoholic and recently fancied the challenge of levelling a character through the class story with no assistance BUT automatic conquest inclusion ensures you get masses of xp without trying so everything is super easy, even without a companion out. Getting the item that turns off double xp is one thing however, as a solo player, I'd like the option to turn off conquest objectives/conquest participation, especially as a solo player.

 

I'm with you as far as being a ridiculous altoholic. 169 toons across 5 accounts. 99 on my main account.

 

What you and Ruvalie both want --- in order to follow the narrow path you wish to follow, which you must admit is not the ordinary player path but a one-off experiment (to fancy the challenge of leveling a character with no assistance, in your case) --- is a level lock.

 

The white acute module basically has been improperly implemented to meet your needs. It focuses on experience gained, but that's not helping you.

 

You want full, across-the-board level lock. So, instead of the devs having to meet the programming challenge of zeroing out experience source A + experience source B + however many other sources of experience there may be, the white acute module (or perhaps a new module) implements a level lock. Every time enough experience is gained that would advance your character to the next level, it simply... doesn't.

Edited May 9, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[OlBuzzard]

Ruvalie has a point. I'm a ridiculous altoholic and recently fancied the challenge of levelling a character through the class story with no assistance BUT automatic conquest inclusion ensures you get masses of xp without trying so everything is super easy, even without a companion out. Getting the item that turns off double xp is one thing however, as a solo player, I'd like the option to turn off conquest objectives/conquest participation, especially as a solo player.

 

I can understand your point (somewhat) … Not everything is " super easy" . Yes the leveling does progress VERY fast.

 

Yet I also see another opportunity. If used correctly we can get to some of the best gear we have access to in a shorter period of time (for casual / solo players ). IMO … this upsets some because of the time credits and efforts they have put into getting their gear. It's kind of one of those debates that never ends really. OH … BTW... I'm not suggesting that anyone in this thread is aiming at that. Sorry. Don't want to give anyone the wrong impression.

 

The only real point I'm hoping to get across is that you might look at the side of how to use this in gaining the gear you want that might otherwise take considerably longer. (just a thought).

[LD_Little_Dragon]

What you and Ruvalie both want --- in order to follow the narrow path you wish to follow, which you must admit is not the ordinary player path but a one-off experiment (to fancy the challenge of leveling a character with no assistance, in your case) --- is a level lock.

 

I think you are underestimating how many players want to stay on-level while doing the storyline. A level-lock might work, but I don't see why having a 'nerf xp gains' item wouldn't work just as well. Currently I can't do anymore than basic class story with the occassional extra sidequest or I overlevel like crazy. I would like to do some planetary/exploration missions too, but can't due to the rapid overlevelling that occurs.

 

I don't like being over-powered, especially when trying out a new spec. Playing the game while overlevelled means you don't have to use any rotations, dcds, buffs, just using nothing but your basic aoe skill will mow down everything around you.

 

Ever wonder why new players get to level 75 without knowing how to play their class? Well, how can they? Even in vet mode fp I've found it better to just spam a basic aoe on mobs, rather than try do any semblance of a real rotation.

 

No one is asking to slow down xp gains for everyone, but to give players the OPTION to level up at their own preferred pace.

[xordevoreaux]

I think you are underestimating how many players want to stay on-level while doing the storyline. A level-lock might work, but I don't see why having a 'nerf xp gains' item wouldn't work just as well.

 

The difference is that a level lock is a hard stop. Nerfing is not removing. Nerfing (slowing) xp means advancing... just ... slower.

Some may prefer one implementation over the other, for whatever their purposes may be.

Edited May 9, 2020 by xordevoreaux

[DawnAskham]

They made changes to class mission XP years ago and unless you are F2P with no XP boosts, no guild boosts, no legacy boosts, etc, you can easily over-level a planet.

 

Add in some side quests, planet quests, heroics, flashpoints, and / or PVP, and you'll be way over-leveled, even if conquest awarded no XP.

 

So the idea that conquest is at fault for being over-leveled is just wrong.

 

If you want an XP toggle - just ask for one, including in your title - but don't blame an aspect of the game that some Bioware flunky glancing at the forums may take literally and decide to nerf conquest.

 

Oh and you might want to go ahead and prepare the 'add veteran / master mode story missions' and / or 'bring back classic servers' threads, as even with an XP toggle, this game has been dumbed down in so many ways that is never going to offer the same challenge in leveling content that existed back at launch.

[Aulus_Claudius]

I wish they would let you buy set bonus gear like that from lvl 40-50. It’s a complete waste because you can only use it for 4 Lvls and then it’s worthless again.

Or even better, let the set bonuses work at lvl 75.

Everyones mostly geared up now for content that requires the new set bonuses, it would be nice to still be able to use the old ones we have.

Ideally, they would make them all legacy bound and should just remove the lvl limit to use the shells (since they removed the set bonuses off the armoring pieces). Then they would just be normal legacy shells that you could put lvl 8-75 mods into them.

Definitely, being able to buy the end-game gear from every expansion would be awesome, and not just for the stats while leveling - having them available for optical use would be amazing! I don't find the Ossus gear a complete waste at 70, but it's definitely too late to be really helpful. At least at that point you can enter an SM raid (another thing I wish they'd change back to pre-6.0 when it was lv50!) and should be 75 well before the sellback timer runs out.

[Shirvington]

An easy solution to situations like this is for BW to offer a RANGE of level syncs. Other games do this. City of Heroes comes to mind.

 

Relative to a planet level, you can choose to cap out at:

+2

+1

0

-1

-2

 

So say Dromund Kaas lists at level 15. Normal Level Sync puts you at 17 now (iirc). With a portrait menu option, you can change that to stay capped at 17, or drop it all the way down to 13 (or whatever values, point remains.) Your stats adjust accordingly. May not be "best" solution but it's a method other games have used.

[CrazyGreggy]

Just played a lowbie for the first time since the conquest changes came in, and I'm inclined to agree with the OP. The WAM mitigates the mission and story XP, but throw in the conquest XP and the WAM gets overwhelmed. Just did the second and third zones of Nar Shaddaa, gained 3 levels doing a total of maybe 5 or 6 missions (didn't count exactly).

 

All I can see from the OP is a request that the spirit in which BioWare implemented the White Acute Module isn't being respected by the new conquest system and a slight modification is required. The WAM was intended to reinstate the traditional level experience by suppressing the additional XP from events and the 12x for class story missions. The intent is still there but the method is no longer adequate given the new sources of XP.

[OlBuzzard]

Just played a lowbie for the first time since the conquest changes came in, and I'm inclined to agree with the OP. The WAM mitigates the mission and story XP, but throw in the conquest XP and the WAM gets overwhelmed. Just did the second and third zones of Nar Shaddaa, gained 3 levels doing a total of maybe 5 or 6 missions (didn't count exactly).

 

All I can see from the OP is a request that the spirit in which BioWare implemented the White Acute Module isn't being respected by the new conquest system and a slight modification is required. The WAM was intended to reinstate the traditional level experience by suppressing the additional XP from events and the 12x for class story missions. The intent is still there but the method is no longer adequate given the new sources of XP.

 

Understood... but also consider that this is probably limited to the time in which we are being given bonus XP. NOT the result of the new conquest system.

[CrazyGreggy]

Understood... but also consider that this is probably limited to the time in which we are being given bonus XP. NOT the result of the new conquest system.

 

Not so sure about that. I've levelled all my toons with the WAM since it was implemented, and this is noticeably faster. The WAM disables 12x story XP and double XP, I checked that by clicking it on/off when I had missions to turn in. I levelled my merc in February and it felt normal, but just half a planet each on my Sin and Mara today was quite the eye-opener.

[Tsillah]

I didn't say I have to skip it, period. I said I have to skip it if I don't want to outlevel the content, which, although you may not mind it, is something which makes the game less fun for me.

 

Have you tried leveling without upgrading your gear? A lot of your output is based on your stats. If you just do missions there's no bolster and your being overleveled doesn't mean as much if you don't gear up. Just a thought.

[OlBuzzard]

Not so sure about that. I've levelled all my toons with the WAM since it was implemented, and this is noticeably faster. The WAM disables 12x story XP and double XP, I checked that by clicking it on/off when I had missions to turn in. I levelled my merc in February and it felt normal, but just half a planet each on my Sin and Mara today was quite the eye-opener.

 

I've never tried to turn any thing off (so to speak) … but I still trust what you are saying. But … IMO … I'd like to see how this shakes out after the double XP event.

 

Also: leveling is somewhat faster in this game than some games. I'll admit that. But that's never been a problem with any of the stories … opportunities or (perhaps for lack of a better way to express it on my part) … negative affect on the game. I've always pretty much just played ( missions / FP's / heroics ) as I've wanted to... at whatever pace I choose. (us grumpy old men have a tendency to do things that way)…

 

At any rate I'm not aiming any statements or negative implications at you or OP … (just FYI) … and I do hope that this can be sorted out.

 

The new approach to conquest / points … etc has been a good move to many of us.

 

Hang in there !!

[TrixxieTriss]

Just played a lowbie for the first time since the conquest changes came in, and I'm inclined to agree with the OP. The WAM mitigates the mission and story XP, but throw in the conquest XP and the WAM gets overwhelmed. Just did the second and third zones of Nar Shaddaa, gained 3 levels doing a total of maybe 5 or 6 missions (didn't count exactly).

 

All I can see from the OP is a request that the spirit in which BioWare implemented the White Acute Module isn't being respected by the new conquest system and a slight modification is required. The WAM was intended to reinstate the traditional level experience by suppressing the additional XP from events and the 12x for class story missions. The intent is still there but the method is no longer adequate given the new sources of XP.

 

The only work around I can see that works at the moment is to run a max lvl Alt through planets or content you plan on lvling your new characters through for that day.

 

ie, if you plan on doing pvp, jump on a max lvl Alts and do some pvp to get the social 1&2 conquest out of the way and any pvp legacy daily/weekly and the speeder ride done. Then jump on your lowbie to play.

(This can take 10-45mins depending on pop times and what’s popping)

 

Or

 

If you plan on doing heroics or planets, work out which ones and send your max lvl there first to do one heroic and spam the planet kills for conquest. Then jump on your lvling character to continue.

(This can be pretty quick on the lower lvl planets. ie, can do the Korriban heroic and kills in about 5-10mins)

 

Etc, etc,... just plan a head.

 

It’s not perfect by any shot and it would be great if Bioware fixes this up in the future. But there is the work around if anyone is interested.

[Tofu_Shark]

What law says you must skip?

 

I am building up a new legacy on an alt account. That means I don't have all the class stories completed. That means to get the achievements for completing the class stories, I must complete each and every single class planet quest and companion story arc.

 

I just hit 70 on Belsavis.

Via level sync, combat is still competitive despite me being dozens of levels higher than the mobs.

 

Level is irrelevant until 75. Doesn't matter if you're 10 or 70 on a given planet, you can still do what you need to do, and there's nothing at all demanding that you skip content for being over leveled. That's what planet level sync permits.

 

So I'm telling you now, I'm crawling just fine through all of the class stories, one class story arc at a time, leveling fast. But I'm not skipping content. I have literally played hundreds of characters over the years from level 1 to max level, both with and without planet sync, and to be honest, I can't really tell that much of a difference.

 

Make a mountain out of it if you wish, but there are people crawling through every last detail of every last class story, leveling like crazy... and doing just fine.

This doesn't stop you from autolearning passives and abilities autoleveling though. There is nothing challenging once you overlevel content, even with level shfit. Only some heroics and champions pose a threat to the player.

 

 

Even without frequent conquest points and double xp, I routinely outlevel content, starting with the starting planet. My main account? Practically every datacron acquired. Legacy perks including all classes completed, meaning my hour-long buffs are at max. I'd have to work NOT to overlevel, even before 6.1.1. And for what?

 

So don't blame double xp and frequest conquest points on your over-levelling.

 

For people with old accounts and lots of legacy achievements and perks, outgrowing content is standard, but with planet sync, it's not horrid. You only out-level the earliest mobs that you encounter, not the last before you leave your starter planet.

No, you would just have to use the White Acute Module, which you obviously didn't.

 

That's not true, everything is a joke once you outlevel the planet.

 

I'm not sure why you're so invested in telling me I shouldn't care about something just because you don't care about it, or why you're so hostile to my suggestions when they wouldn't harm you or anyone at all.

Search his post history. You'll find out why.

 

Relative levels make almost no difference to the difficulty of combat in the class story. BW opted a while ago to make progressing the class story easy to the point that your level doesn't matter. I stealthed through the Operative's class story, which led to regularly being several levels below enemies. I was only 46 when I finished the story. Fights against mobs 6 levels higher than me were difficult because they were literally impossible - you miss 100% of the time where the level gap is 6+. All other combat was trivial to the degree that I could have got up from my computer, made myself a cup of coffee, come back, and the fight would be over.

 

I do wish that the combat in the class story missions wasn't so meaningless, at least for instanced areas. It does somewhat cheapen the story when you go up against someone who is meant to be a big bad but who dies in the blink of an eye. You also don't learn how to play your class while levelling. That's the way the game is currently designed though. If you want to make the the story at all challenging, you will have to do something unusual to weaken yourself like making your companion passive or not using all your abilities.

Even running with just mainhand, offhand, and relics the difficulty is nonexistent.

 

It’s not a gear / stats issue for many players. It’s the amount of extra abilities, both passive and active ones you get as you lvl up.

Remember, all of this content was designed around you only having certain abilities at certain Lvls.

So when you have extra abilities, the content actually gets easier even if you don’t use all the active ones because you get passive ones as well. This does make the content easier even if you run around naked. There is no easy way around that if you want to play the game as it was designed.

If you still had to visit a trainer to level up existing abilities and to learn new ones, this could easily be done, but ever since they made it this way in 4.0, it's impossible to avoid.

 

What level you are really doesn't impact nor should it impact one's enjoyment of the game. The level sync still makes it competitive and overall, the level has no influence on any of the story content nor its progression. Heck, I don't even bother leveling, I just use a boost to level 70 token the moment I get to the Imperial or Republic Fleet. By the time I finish the capital planets, I'm level 75 (and I do all the missions that I encounter).

 

The level of your character shouldn't have an impact on how you enjoy the story of the game. If I were you, I'd simply learn to accept it that leveling goes fast and focus on the story and content you are playing.

Well, for those that want some semblance of challenge it does. There is no reward when you fell your enemy in 2-3 abilities. Not everyone plays the way you do. I think you need to learn to accept that.

 

If I recall, you get most of the skills by visiting a trainer. If you really don't want those skills too soon, don't visit the trainer, too soon. 🙂

Granted, it may be a pain to find out when and where the skills should normally come.

 

Some of the difficulty here may have do with some new players wanting the game to be a challenge. Unfortunately, the 'story' parts of the game haven't been a challenge for a long time. You basically need to wear no armor and not use a companion to get any challenge.

Most of the challenge these days comes from endgame-ish stuff like MM flashpoints and OPS, and World Bosses.

You recall wrong. There are some active abilities you have to learn from a trainer, but there are many that "autolearn," especially the passive ones, and once an ability is learned, it "autolevels." You used to have to visit a trainer to level up your already learned abilities so they would do more damage, protect you longer, or whatever.

 

Yeah, I double checked the WAM today and noticed it’s working for conquest items too (but you need to close the page and open it again to see the reduction).

 

And yes, there are many more things dishing out XP from conquest and even the WAM can’t mitigate that much.

The only work around I can think of is find a high lvl Alt to get some of those daily conquest things done (maybe takes about 10-15mins depending on what you want to eliminate from the list). Then switch to the character you want to lvl.

 

What they could possibly look at doing is make the WAM turn off XP if you apply it twice so you have two debuffs

That won't work for infinitely recurring Conquest goals, such as killing enemies, and if you're doing all the content on a planet, you're going to complete that one several times over.

[robertthebard]

That won't work for infinitely recurring Conquest goals, such as killing enemies, and if you're doing all the content on a planet, you're going to complete that one several times over.

 

The Slayer objectives are once daily. I snipped out a lot of your attempting to educate people on how the game works once I got to this. Yes, every kill awards CP, but, w/out the slayer bonuses, it's not going to pop a Conquest Objective. It is not infinitely repeatable. So, if you go in and do the Slayer objectives on another toon, it will take that massive xp reward out of the equation, on that particular day. Double XP is going to be a factor, but since they have turned that off, it's as much of a non-issue as it can be.

[rumpol]

Even if you stayed at the planetary level curve the content still would not be challenging. Create your own difficulty, dismiss your companion, don't upgrade your gear.

[RowanThursday]

Maybe simply add the option to turn conquest ( the objectives, the xp gain, the frelling pop ups) on and off?

[DarkGruffalo]

If you still had to visit a trainer to level up existing abilities and to learn new ones, this could easily be done, but ever since they made it this way in 4.0, it's impossible to avoid.

 

 

you still have to visit the trainer, or have a portable one with you, you don't auto learn them, at least not yet.

 

 

 

That won't work for infinitely recurring Conquest goals, such as killing enemies, and if you're doing all the content on a planet, you're going to complete that one several times over.

 

 

as stated, they are a once a day thing, do them on an alt, and you won't have to see it

Edited May 12, 2020 by DarkGruffalo

[Sarfux]

keep in mind, it's not conquest. it is double xp mainly