In Praise of the 6.1.1 Conquest Overhaul

[casirabit]

The problem he seems to have is not that people have agreed that some of the group activities need to be bumped up, because numerous of people have stated that from the beginning. When that is said, he changes his tune and then argues another point, giving the impression that he wants conquest to go back to his way of thinking and that is where people get aggravated with him, as he cannot make up his mind.

 

While group activity should be bumped up, conquest should not go back to the way it was. More people are enjoying it and I don't see what the problem is. Let people enjoy the game, for that is what a game is supposed to be, fun, not tedious.

 

In addition, if you want to compare the time it takes to do some flashpoints, operations, PVP, you might want to recheck your comments about certain dailies as they can take as long as a flashpoint. I.E. Makeb, Section X, Onderon to name a few. Those are the ones I do regularly and they do not take 10 minutes. Sure they give good points and that is why I have said at the beginning, group activities need a bump as well to give points on the same quota as you get in a daily, like Makeb or even Onderon.

 

But watch they are going to argue that no no that isn't what they want. They going to say well that's not how conquest should be.

[phalczen]

When it comes to your example:

Yeah, it isn't binary. Despite the massive&ridiculous 400% imbalance, its not like literally everybody were doing planetaries and stopped all the rest on the spot. If you have nice group of 7 or so friends enjoying OPS, you are quite immune to the effects of this gravity. At least as long as you stick within the framework of you doing scheduled ops with your pals. And as long as they all show up online and you won't have to start looking for a 2nd healer to fil the 8th spot. This gravitational shift begins creeping in from sidelines and via LFG tool and queue pools. There is plenty of content besides scheduled raids with people you know. I'd say majority of multiplayer content is about doing things with and against people queue pool throws at you. Smaller the queue pool, less people. It won't matter much when it comes to something like spamming FPs at prime hour. But less popular multiplayer content? Specially once you move a bit to either direction from prime time? Howbout lowbie WZs once double xp is over and game quits down a bit?

 

Well, except during the GSF focused conquest week, GSF was never the best way to earn CQ, although it was one pathway for lazy exploiters. If a player is like Drako and his team, or -SRW-, then you were never about CQ anyway. I'd simply counter that 6.1.1 leaves me free to engage in GSF more, because I can get CQ out of the way rather quickly at the beginning of the week during free moments and focus on GSF on my extended playtimes. You reported with your own data its possible to get around 9 matches in about 90 minutes, which I would consider a great GSF night in terms of queue pops. This seems to counteract your supposition that queues have died or will die because of a shift to planetary heroics, and people aren't doing GSF just because its double XP. I can enjoy GSF and not worry about whether it meets my conquest objectives. I can enjoy GSF without thinking of all the CQ points I'm not getting by not doing KP farming, or whatever the "new hotness" is.

 

Anyway, I'm kinda done debating. You and I won't see eye to eye, but hopefully I've convinced some readers or lurkers who were on the fence about whether these changes are good. Apparently my paragraph answers make me look like the opposition party, and I've already endured accusations from two people whose side I'm actually on.

[Stradlin]

The problem he seems to have is not that people have agreed that some of the group activities need to be bumped up, because numerous of people have stated that from the beginning. When that is said, he changes his tune and then argues another point, giving the impression that he wants conquest to go back to his way of thinking and that is where people get aggravated with him, as he cannot make up his mind...

,...But watch they are going to argue that no no that isn't what they want. They going to say well that's not how conquest should be.

 

Something about human nature I guess? We are drawn to talk about stuff we find disagreeable. Your post is just as good an example of this. During our back and forths, only time you mention how " some of the group activities need to be bumped up, because numerous of people have stated that from the beginning." seems to be in context of discussing me or my posting - it is fodder used to support another argument or observation, usually about me. It doesn't quite ever seem to be interesting or relevant enough to be the actual point of your post. Much more commonly, me or my posting has that honor instead.

 

 

While group activity should be bumped up, conquest should not go back to the way it was. More people are enjoying it and I don't see what the problem is.

Conq system has kinda been going back and forth like crazy since XP->Conquest became a thing. I don't believe they'll ever rly nerf this though. I'm 100% certain they never remove the 40 or so juicy daily repeatables or anything like that. Would be swell if all other content would get something comparable though, not just planetaries. Regardless of wether they nerf things(adjust personal and guild targets) it'd be vital to make the new conq system bit less exclusive. Only one playstyle is included now.

 

 

In addition, if you want to compare the time it takes to do some flashpoints, operations, PVP, you might want to recheck your comments about certain dailies as they can take as long as a flashpoint. I.E. Makeb, Section X, Onderon to name a few. Those are the ones I do regularly and they do not take 10 minutes. Sure they give good points and that is why I have said at the beginning, group activities need a bump as well to give points on the same quota as you get in a daily, like Makeb or even Onderon.

 

 

Its just that things-to-do -list conquest provides you with isn't in any particular way locking huge rewards behind weekly dings alone. You don't have to be a completitionist. Ofc, there are rewards for weekly dings. Its just that for a very long time, you get much more conq much faster and easier by just skipping them. You can clear one or two mission/planet and move on for couple of hours withiot running out of content. You are greatly rewarded for this. Nothing stops you from being a completitionist and clearing entire Makeb out of missions, but it is neither required nor super rewarding in terms of conq. Do one or two missions, ding 25x slayer and move on. Come back later for x 50 if you feel like it and have time.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Stradlin

[casirabit]

Something about human nature I guess? We are drawn to talk about stuff we find disagreeable. Your post is just as good an example of this. During our back and forths, only time you mention how " some of the group activities need to be bumped up, because numerous of people have stated that from the beginning." seems to be in context of discussing me or my posting - it is fodder used to support another argument or observation, usually about me. It doesn't quite ever seem to be interesting or relevant enough to be the actual point of your post. Much more commonly, me or my posting has that honor instead..

 

Let me refresh your memory, since your memory seems to be faulty:

 

 

I did make a comment about the harder flashpoints and operations that they should give more conquest points. That I will say needs to be done but without reducing the other conquest points. I believe the hard mode/veteran flashpoints and operations should be increased and maybe even PVP (I don't PVP so I can't comment on that actually) because it requires more of an effort for the harder ones.

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=978421&page=8

 

Notice that was long before you started changing your mind back and forth over the issue.

[DarkestMicheal]

*** The best thing to do now is "ignore" said player.

 

Best advice yet, put them on ignore, and you never have to see their posts again. Just keep the positive posts going.

[Sarfux]

I am absolutely most definitely not Stradlin. All you have to do is look at my posting history over the past 8 years.

 

Hey! I'm just making sure. Because you talk A LOT like him. But I'll give benefit of the doubt. Overall this change is fantastic and it makes the game FEEL much more active

[MagicTerror]

The one complaint I have thusfar about the conquest changes personally is that they should have kept the Companion gifts satchel reward that's available for lvl 10 players and given a wealthier version of that with the purple/gold gifts to lvl 75s, rather than having to do a heroic to get one chance of looting one of those from the crate or using the credit sink of a vendor. Either the devs thought galactic command stash + Alliance crates made it too easy to influence comps, or they just assumed everyone at max level had no real need for Companion leveling once they released 6.0; whatever, with the way crafting got botched with grind this expansion I was really hoping for just as fast a route to Comp influence as it was in 5.0. Edited May 14, 2020 by MagicTerror

[phalczen]

Hey! I'm just making sure. Because you talk A LOT like him. But I'll give benefit of the doubt. Overall this change is fantastic and it makes the game FEEL much more active

 

https://tenor.com/view/the-bachelor-kelsey-eloquence-articulate-smart-gif-3807871

[Sarfux]

so now that this has been out for a bit, I have been able to do experiments! In my guild, we like to do events. Like weekly raffles on wednesdays, and now a new one friday fight nights I have started along with some other things. I wanted to do these for the longest time but we could only do one or two and then that's it, because we would need to dedicate friday and sat nights to conquest only objectives in the old system, in order to get our goal. People were getting bored and not having fun. We had to always plan things around it.

 

The thing is, we love doing conquest but we aren't a "conquest guild" where it's the ONLY thing we focus on. We do many other things as well. With these conquest additions and the changes? we can do all of our events AND have fun doing conquest every time we just play the game, without having to dedicate nights to it or stress over things! Everyone is online more and VERY happy with this change! It works out very well.

[OlBuzzard]

so now that this has been out for a bit, I have been able to do experiments! In my guild, we like to do events. Like weekly raffles on wednesdays, and now a new one friday fight nights I have started along with some other things. I wanted to do these for the longest time but we could only do one or two and then that's it, because we would need to dedicate friday and sat nights to conquest only objectives in the old system, in order to get our goal. People were getting bored and not having fun. We had to always plan things around it.

 

The thing is, we love doing conquest but we aren't a "conquest guild" where it's the ONLY thing we focus on. We do many other things as well. With these conquest additions and the changes? we can do all of our events AND have fun doing conquest every time we just play the game, without having to dedicate nights to it or stress over things! Everyone is online more and VERY happy with this change! It works out very well.

 

Funny …. The one thing that I pointed out earlier .. "FUN" … nice to see that return to the game !!

 

[/ TWO thumbs up]

[DarkGruffalo]

Funny …. The one thing that I pointed out earlier .. "FUN" … nice to see that return to the game !!

 

[/ TWO thumbs up]

 

It has definately restored fun to the game, for most people. long may it

Edited May 16, 2020 by DarkGruffalo

[OlBuzzard]

It has definately restored fun to the game, for most people. long may it

 

Agreed !!!

 

QAPLA !!!

 

[xordevoreaux]

It has definately restored fun to the game, for most people. long may it

Not only fun, but a sense of hope that we can actually progress without bloodying our foreheads against the proverbial brick wall to do it.

[Sarfux]

https://tenor.com/view/the-bachelor-kelsey-eloquence-articulate-smart-gif-3807871

 

that wasn't a compliment...but ok?

[Sarfux]

Not only fun, but a sense of hope that we can actually progress without bloodying our foreheads against the proverbial brick wall to do it.

 

exactly! conquest used to be "...sigh..now i have to do some of these objectives on this list ...dammit...this is so boring I wish there was more"

 

to now "hell yes! I can play the game how i want and still get conquest and contribute to something else and my guild without having to pull my teeth doing it!" great times

[DarkTergon]

exactly! conquest used to be "...sigh..now i have to do some of these objectives on this list ...dammit...this is so boring I wish there was more"

 

to now "hell yes! I can play the game how i want and still get conquest and contribute to something else and my guild without having to pull my teeth doing it!" great times

 

excatly, I get CQ on the toons I need it on, for my guilds, and also get it on others, just playing the game, with an objective here and there as a slight detour. It's great

[Sarfux]

excatly, I get CQ on the toons I need it on, for my guilds, and also get it on others, just playing the game, with an objective here and there as a slight detour. It's great

 

I can now plan lots more events in my guild AND be able to get our conquest goal while playing the game and having FUN doing it!! conquest is no longer a HUGE drag! it's awesome and I hope BioWare won't listen to the complainers. because this is GREAT for the game.

[DarthAlastor]

I think the conquest has been a great success. More people in my guild are looking to do stuff together and I see more people active than before

[Dasidani]

Its just that options present are far removed from being equal in value. Some incredibly simplistic and straightforward things give much more conq much faster than stuff that requires multiple people. Spend 10 mins in fleet giving gifts and selling vendor trash and you've made more conquest than you earn in an fp. Or in wz/gsf match. Do you think this is..balanced? Having rewards from grp content be equal in value to vendor trash would be swell.

 

So you are upset you have to do group content for the same amount of time before the changes and others are able to complete faster doing other content?

 

If you don't like grinding group things for conquest do dailies and then do whatever you want perhaps?

 

I guess I am not seeing the problem. The devs made conquest available to everyone not just those that want to do lvl 75 group content. Seems like a win to me.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Dasidani

[DarkTergon]

So you are upset you have to do group content for the same amount of time before the changes and others are able to complete faster doing other content?

 

If you don't like grinding group things for conquest do dailies and then do whatever you want perhaps?

 

I guess I am not seeing the problem. The devs made conquest available to everyone not just those that want to do lvl 75 group content. Seems like a win to me.

 

No, he's upset that his favorite activity doesn't give him billions on cq points. His whole arguments are all over the place, he keeps changing what he says, and even if people point out the flaws, he snips their comments, and tries to turn it around. Everyone who argues with him are wasting their time. Which is why some of us have put him on ignore, the more we respond, the more he argues. We all need to put him on ignore, and just reply to each other, every person that answers him is keeping his argumments going. We as a community need to ignore this person, and just keep posting the positives here, let him have his own thread, we'll stay here with ours

[phalczen]

So you are upset you have to do group content for the same amount of time before the changes and others are able to complete faster doing other content?

 

If you don't like grinding group things for conquest do dailies and then do whatever you want perhaps?

 

I guess I am not seeing the problem. The devs made conquest available to everyone not just those that want to do lvl 75 group content. Seems like a win to me.

 

I *think* what Stradlin is claiming most recently is that as people focus on planetary dailies/heroics to grind conquest, because that is the most efficient, queues will dry up ... for everything: GSF, pvp, FP, etc.

 

In fact, that has NOT been my experience. And Stradlin's own data supports my experience: Stradlin was able to get 9 GSF matches in a 90 minute period, which would be a great GSF night in my book. In fact, I would argue that making conquest straightforward frees people to choose other things later in their play session.

 

So I agree, that the conquest changes are great! Did you hear that Sarfux and Ylliarus? I agree the conquest changes are great. I am capable of acknowledging some of my opponent's points, without agreeing with their conclusions.

[Stradlin]

In fact, that has NOT been my experience. And Stradlin's own data supports my experience: Stradlin was able to get 9 GSF matches in a 90 minute period, which would be a great GSF night in my book.

 

No..As mentioned, queue times been entirely excluded from this:

..Just as they were excluded from the previous 9 match experiment. On the video, eight matches and over 90 mins of GSF needed to reach conq target. It all happened over span of 3-4 hours or so, I went afk to wait and see if lag spikes woluld pass etc.

 

Speaking of reaching conq target via GSF....

When you are doing WZs, GSF and FPs, Socialite I and II dings are among the very few major daily dings you'll see. They are ofc shared by all this content. So any multiplayer activity eats from the table of others.Do WZs for an hour or two and you make GSF and FPs even worse conq for yourself on that day, and vice versa.

 

For very unfortunate reasons, (the pandemic) SWTOR and prolly more or less all other MMOs are living through a huge surge of activity. Huge majority of different studios realized this and understandby&kindly began capitalizing on the surge and boosting it further via things like double xp. Everything is much busier right now. Fortunately, it prolly won't last forever.(as in, Covid eventually withers away) I'm extremely happy if it turns out I'm completely wrong and queue is about as lively as it used to be once things are back to normal. Bypassing once-in-a-century turmoils, double xp alone has always, temporarily, injected life in to the game.

 

 

I *think* what Stradlin is claiming most recently is that as people focus on planetary dailies/heroics to grind conquest, because that is the most efficient, queues will dry up ... for everything: GSF, pvp, FP, etc.

 

It really isn't a very bold claim. What other optioins are there to "grind conquest" now?

You wanna be part of this new super fast&efficient conquest? Feel like bringing in 400% more conq than anyone used to? Like the idea of being one of the many people bringing couple of dozen characters to Conq target? You better really like doing planetary daily missions then. Every week. In this context, you don't really have options.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I

In fact, I would argue that making conquest straightforward frees people to choose other things later in their play session.[/b]

 

 

If you don't like grinding group things for conquest do dailies and then do whatever you want perhaps?

 

Many others been using this same expression when talking about this. Do planetaries for a while and boom, "It frees people" It is actually very accurate. With what words would you usually describe the state&condition present until one is "set free" Slavery? Inprisonment? Basically, all other content is now behind this planetary mission mountain. How tall the mountain you need to climb depends on your own daily quota. You wanna bring 4 chars to target today real fast? Then you spend something like 90 mins doing planetaries. Once you are done, then and only then you have climbed over this mountain and can start looking at other content this game has besides soloable missions. Only then conq farmer feels he has met his daily quota and is free to actually do stuff he wants to do. Wouldn't it be nice to " be free" from the start? So you can actually choose content you wanna deal with to earn some great conquest instead of having to win this freedom by slaving on some planetrary missions first? Every day. Every week.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Stradlin

[OlBuzzard]

When someone is deliberately attempting to derail a thread … (particularly when ignoring facts) … I'm not sure what that is called (in internet terms). I know what we use to call folks like that in the old days. However, out of respect to others ( and not wanting to receive a warning from the mods who already have their hands full) … I will forgo a more direct ( and somewhat blunt) reprisal.

 

[note: "ignore" still works very nicely … ]

 

What 6.1.1 has provided is the one thing that was needed the most. It's results are seen in many different ways:

1. Choices for many players that was not previously available.

2. Out of those choices for many came a new found search for other things and a return to the basic concept of simply having fun.

3. It was and STILL IS one of the best things we've seen in a while.

 

Yes we have a lot of improvements and bugs to squash.

 

BUT... returning back to where this thread was originally headed (and rightly so) … hey BW TEAM !! Nicely done !!

 

[/ TWO THUMBS UP]

man … I wish we had that emote …

[WYMAS]

I Think, This Conquest Revamp, Has Been The Best Thing To Date!

I See More People Playing Than Before,

And The Double XP, .... Well Takes My Mind Off Of The Virus,

Kind Of Nice Of The Dev. Team To Step For Us Player's!!!

Thank You!

[casirabit]

When someone is deliberately attempting to derail a thread … (particularly when ignoring facts) … I'm not sure what that is called (in internet terms). I know what we use to call folks like that in the old days. However, out of respect to others ( and not wanting to receive a warning from the mods who already have their hands full) … I will forgo a more direct ( and somewhat blunt) reprisal.

 

[note: "ignore" still works very nicely … ]

 

What 6.1.1 has provided is the one thing that was needed the most. It's results are seen in many different ways:

1. Choices for many players that was not previously available.

2. Out of those choices for many came a new found search for other things and a return to the basic concept of simply having fun.

3. It was and STILL IS one of the best things we've seen in a while.

 

Yes we have a lot of improvements and bugs to squash.

 

BUT... returning back to where this thread was originally headed (and rightly so) … hey BW TEAM !! Nicely done !!

 

[/ TWO THUMBS UP]

man … I wish we had that emote …

 

 

True but the interesting fact I have noticed lately is more people are grouping up doing the weeklies and heroics than they were before so not sure where they are getting it is hurting grouping when I have seen the direct opposite.

Edited May 18, 2020 by casirabit